Is the society matured enough to handle privacy?

[Zilon]

Privacy is good and bad at the same time.  And what becomes of it is dependent  on who handles it and how the handle it.  So far many wants to have bitcoin  ditch  out  fiat not for the intent of  having total control of their funds but for the sake of funding illegal activities  online without  any point of trace,  regulations,  monitoring  or prevention.

I am not disputing  the fact many still have genuine  reason for going private which include bank frustration and restrictions,  withdrawal  limits and declaration  of assets and investment as claim for legal possession  of a certain  amount  of fiat in a local bank.

But with the insecurity  and economic  crisis hitting the world from all angle is it still safe to agitate for a complete  decentralized  society  ditching  the fiat for bitcoin.  I only see both existing  together  with more preference on decentralization  but my concern  is if man is matured enough to handle the innovation or are you also seeing the abuse  of privacy coming along with it

[Ale88]

I only see both existing  together  with more preference on decentralization  but my concern  is if man is matured enough to handle the innovation or are you also seeing the abuse  of privacy coming along with it

Fiat won't disappear anytime soon, that's for sure. Regarding your concerns about the privacy, well, let's say that bitcoin really becomes mainstream, I can totally image several governments making new laws to link your ID to a specific bitcoin address, just like if it was a bank, and for example to buy something at the supermarket you have to show a proof that you're the real owner of that "certified" address. Of course people will continue to use also "non-registered" addresses, but I'm pretty sure the governments will find a way to have way more control over bitcoin transactions.

[Upgrade00]

So far many wants to have bitcoin  ditch  out  fiat not for the intent of  having total control of their funds but for the sake of funding illegal activities  online without  any point of trace,  regulations,  monitoring  or prevention.

This is an old and tired argument. Fiat has for many years before Bitcoin been a medium for illegal transaction and money laundering and the most popular one at that. Scammers would go after anything of value, from gold to gift cards, this does not mean they fund illegal activities.
About the privacy argument; While Bitcoin is pseudo anonymous, it is very transparent and traceable, so it's possible to trace the trail of a transaction. More traceable than physical cash.

But with the insecurity  and economic  crisis hitting the world from all angle is it still safe to agitate for a complete  decentralized  society  ditching  the fiat for bitcoin.

The insecurity is an actual reason to want a decentralized network which gives the user control over their assets. This is accentuated by the poor fiscal policies being made by governments and banks, making banks very prone to inflation and devaluation.

[BlackHatCoiner]

Not sure if you answer on whether privacy is both good and bad. As far as I read, you only say that Bitcoin makes people financial sovereigns of themselves.

but my concern  is if man is matured enough to handle the innovation or are you also seeing the abuse  of privacy coming along with it

What do you see? Judging by the fact that the majority hasn't yet understood what's self-custody and why you shouldn't leave coins on centralized exchanges I'm going to say a big no, they don't. And most will never do.

But, let cryptocurrencies off the table. The mass, which mirrors society, ignores completely that their privacy is demanded. The mass doesn't care. The mass wants to show everybody what they're eating, when and where they're eating it, if they've gone to a luxurious hotel, if they're at the beach, if they're dressed nicely, if they're looking for a relationship etc.

We've passed the part where they don't care about their privacy. People in current societies want to share the moments which were considered private in the past.

[Zilon]

This is an old and tired argument. Fiat has for many years before Bitcoin been a medium for illegal transaction and money laundering and the most popular one at that. Scammers would go after anything of value, from gold to gift cards, this does not mean they fund illegal activities.
About the privacy argument; While Bitcoin is pseudo anonymous, it is very transparent and traceable, so it's possible to trace the trail of a transaction. More traceable than physical cash.

No debate is old as long as it hasn't  solved the issue on ground.  It  only becomes old when there is a  solution. I agree to the fact that  Scammers actually  go for anything  of value but with decentralization  it will  be easy pizzy entry because  every one is a costodian of their wallet.  The ease to tracing bitcoin  transaction  is double of what it  will take to track a centralized  transaction.  Privacy  is good but for a mutured society

[kaggie]

Privacy is good and bad at the same time.  And what becomes of it is dependent  on who handles it and how the handle it. 
..
But with the insecurity  and economic  crisis hitting the world from all angle is it still safe to agitate for a complete  decentralized  society  ditching  the fiat for bitcoin.  I only see both existing  together  with more preference on decentralization  but my concern  is if man is matured enough to handle the innovation or are you also seeing the abuse  of privacy coming along with it

I'd like to hear how others think privacy (outside of crypto) could be preserved. This could be technological or political, like ensuring an internet Bill of Rights.

There's never been a time with so little privacy, and it will only get worse. Right now you use a phone, the internet, satellites, and banking that identifies you very uniquely in many different ways. Granted, in this forum it may be different for the obvious reason, but everyone here is connected to the modern world some how.

Privacy allows individuals to develop uniquely and creates new and interesting ways to push the world into even higher heights, so is a worthy cause.

[stompix]

I only see both existing  together  with more preference on decentralization  but my concern  is if man is matured enough to handle the innovation or are you also seeing the abuse  of privacy coming along with it

Matured enough in what sense?

Sometimes when people think of this privacy as something that would work as a bubble surrounding you and nobody can see through it I honestly feel like laughing, forget the whole thing about the Yellowpages where your phone number and address were written for everybody to know and now people freak out when somebody finds them on Facebook. I've just finished reading one of Simenon's novels from the Maigret series, I wonder how the f word would any of those have taken place in a country with fully implemented GDPR and privacy laws, probably all of those have gotten away as you couldn't even ask the concierge the names of people living in the building

But with the insecurity  and economic  crisis hitting the world from all angle is it still safe to agitate for a complete  decentralized  society  ditching  the fiat for bitcoin.

Decentralized society?
You have the perfect example of how a decentralized society will work when you look at the way the EU is not working now.
The moment half of the parents in my kid's class decide the starting hour should be 8 the other half at 10 and the teacher says she will only teach in the afternoon is the moment you realize that even animals have a leader that tells the herd where and when to go and if someone doesn't obey gets left behind.
And if anyone says that the way things should work is by the will of the majority, that's not decentralization, that's democracy.

Second, why the hell do all the bad things in the world have to happen so that we ditch fiat for bitcoin?
I've never understood this obsession with how the collapse of the world economy will be good for us cause people will switch to bitcoin? Do you see people in Mariupol adopting and using BTC?  No, the ones doing so are those who are now in Florida and don't care about spending 2k on a plane ticket, 4 k on accommodation, and a whopping 20k for a whale pass to attend the conference as a VIP.

Bitcoin is money, money and wealth can't thrive during insecuirty and crises.

[Mpamaegbu]

But with the insecurity  and economic  crisis hitting the world from all angle is it still safe to agitate for a complete  decentralized  society  ditching  the fiat for bitcoin.  I only see both existing  together  with more preference on decentralization

No matter how a maximalist anyone wants to be on Bitcoin, I still find it difficult to believe they will jettison the whole idea of fiat completely. It's very unlikely that will succeed if anyone embarks on that. Cryptocurrency will continue to need fiat to survive. If not, Bitcoin price and value won't be checked based on fiat. Again, we should realize that there's nothing like complete privacy when it comes to any system man controls or indulges in. There must be a leak somewhere. In furtherance, the argument that cryptocurrency aids illicit activities can't be a reason to hate it. Every other instrument of value has been known to have been used as a medium too for illicit activities, be it cowries, Fiat, gold. Just name them.

[Dean2]

But with the insecurity  and economic  crisis hitting the world from all angle is it still safe to agitate for a complete  decentralized  society  ditching  the fiat for bitcoin.  I only see both existing  together  with more preference on decentralization  but my concern  is if man is matured enough to handle the innovation or are you also seeing the abuse  of privacy coming along with it

A complete abandon of fiat money will likely not happen (atleast not anytime soon) the most likely scenario is bitcoin may become a Commodity while fiat will still be used in everyday life,was this sathois's plan for bitcoin ? probably not but it is what it is.

[Furious 7]

when it comes to privacy and Fiat, everything will go back to normal in the discussion because even though there are many things that are not profitable in fiat, but still this cannot be broken just because of that. Fiat is still there and will continue to exist until whenever regardless of the presence of Bitcoin or not we cannot eliminate Fiat in circulation.
Their presence is something that will be absolute because indeed their support is very large from the government, so it will be very difficult to eliminate it, especially for now they are still very much needed for most people in their daily lives.

[stomachgrowls]

but my concern  is if man is matured enough to handle the innovation or are you also seeing the abuse  of privacy coming along with it

Better not to stress out yourself on something like this because we do have our personal own view or taking about privacy.Some would really be going into that illegal means and some would just stay or

stick when it comes to privacy matters and dont really go into other means which maturity doesnt really always been indicated on how you do make use of privacy
whether you would go to negative or just simply stick into its main benefits and with decentralized and anonymity aspect then it is really hard to tell on whose
the one do really make some advantage of it.

[so98nn]

What to say about the history of humanity? Different phases, different ways to trade with or without privacy.
Our ancestors used to live free, hunt for their own foods, slowly started growing crops and mastered new technique for the same.

Slowly came the era when few were good at making weapons, few were good at farming and few were good at arts and so on.

So what they did? They wisely started sharing those things. They traded food for cloth, art for stones and pebbles, metals for food and so on.

Was there a system? I don’t think so. But they did it at “free will”. They set out their personal weightage to everything and traded. It was more or less decentralised system.

However, as the revolutions started hitting, came the King rules, systematic settlements where there was rule. Money starte printed on stones, metals and only that was valued and was traded.

They devalued the so called PRIVACY of personal stuff, no one cared about your art skills or foods or cloths. If you have Kings coin then only you can have trade.

This is what we doing today with fiat in more organised manner with clean prints and stamps.


Coming to your question of privacy:
Have you heard the news? Banks getting robbed, people getting robbed on streets, people buying Cocaine with fiat and criminals around the world getting their money ceased for illegal activities?

Why bitcoin is privacy concern if fiat was so much regulated and yet it can not stop the criminal involvement?


Bitcoin is perfect trading asset, similar to what our pre ancestors did.

I am able to send it at my will, whenever I want and how much I want. In addition to this the value is versatile and it my look out when to trade its and at what value. That’s my privacy bubble.

[Doan9269]

Privacy is good and bad at the same time.  And what becomes of it is dependent  on who handles it and how the handle it.

Nothing is bad in privacy, it either you handle it all by yourself or else its not privacy at all.

So far many wants to have bitcoin  ditch  out  fiat not for the intent of  having total control of their funds but for the sake of funding illegal activities  online without  any point of trace,  regulations,  monitoring  or prevention.

You're right, but when we consider the rate of those that use it for investment and those for illicit acts, we can see the difference is much visible enough with about 96:04 ratio and in percentage base on my personal view, even in fiat currency lot of illegal stuffs are much higher than in bitcoin, we have to understand individuals differences and mentality once it comes to a community settings and we cannot for that evade the benefits of bitcoin in relation to illicit activities some used it for.

I only see both existing  together  with more preference on decentralization  but my concern  is if man is matured enough to handle the innovation or are you also seeing the abuse  of privacy coming along with it

Privacy is never abused in any way just because some people may take the advantage to perpetrate fraud, people that fall a victim of scam should be one way or the other blamed and take responsibility for that, because they might have been carelessly unaware with what is meant to be their private data being revealed to scammers knowingly or unknowingly, if one has a property and fail to secure it, then it may end up falling in the hands of looters.

[AakZaki]

Fiat won't disappear anytime soon, that's for sure. Regarding your concerns about the privacy, well, let's say that bitcoin really becomes mainstream, I can totally image several governments making new laws to link your ID to a specific bitcoin address, just like if it was a bank, and for example to buy something at the supermarket you have to show a proof that you're the real owner of that "certified" address. Of course people will continue to use also "non-registered" addresses, but I'm pretty sure the governments will find a way to have way more control over bitcoin transactions.

If the government had greater control over bitcoin transactions, Bitcoin would no longer be a decentralized asset because of the clearer exposure to every transaction made. This also depends on how the regulations apply in the government.
But I believe the government can not make full or greater control. governments only regulate what they can regulate.

privacy becomes important when it comes to decentralization, about bitcoin and about cryptocurrencies.

[South Park]

I only see both existing  together  with more preference on decentralization  but my concern  is if man is matured enough to handle the innovation or are you also seeing the abuse  of privacy coming along with it

Fiat won't disappear anytime soon, that's for sure. Regarding your concerns about the privacy, well, let's say that bitcoin really becomes mainstream, I can totally image several governments making new laws to link your ID to a specific bitcoin address, just like if it was a bank, and for example to buy something at the supermarket you have to show a proof that you're the real owner of that "certified" address. Of course people will continue to use also "non-registered" addresses, but I'm pretty sure the governments will find a way to have way more control over bitcoin transactions.

I have thought a lot about it, personally I think that governments and banks will eventuality release their own wallets in which you will need to pass KYC just to have access to them, they will never reveal your private keys or seed words and you will be able to use your coins everywhere there is a government registered business that deals with cryptocurrencies, obviously people like us will never accept something like this, but it will not surprise me if regular people actually did as they care way more about convenience than their own rights and the principles behind bitcoin.

[Ale88]

I only see both existing  together  with more preference on decentralization  but my concern  is if man is matured enough to handle the innovation or are you also seeing the abuse  of privacy coming along with it

Fiat won't disappear anytime soon, that's for sure. Regarding your concerns about the privacy, well, let's say that bitcoin really becomes mainstream, I can totally image several governments making new laws to link your ID to a specific bitcoin address, just like if it was a bank, and for example to buy something at the supermarket you have to show a proof that you're the real owner of that "certified" address. Of course people will continue to use also "non-registered" addresses, but I'm pretty sure the governments will find a way to have way more control over bitcoin transactions.

I have thought a lot about it, personally I think that governments and banks will eventuality release their own wallets in which you will need to pass KYC just to have access to them, they will never reveal your private keys or seed words and you will be able to use your coins everywhere there is a government registered business that deals with cryptocurrencies, obviously people like us will never accept something like this, but it will not surprise me if regular people actually did as they care way more about convenience than their own rights and the principles behind bitcoin.

Your idea could (unfortunately) actually become reality in the next years. The European Union is already trying to make a new law in order to add a KYC feature to every single address used to withdraw/deposit to an exchange. Of course even the CEXs are against this because it would take a huge amount of time and energy to check and register ever address used by every single user.

[TravelMug]

Privacy is good and bad at the same time.  And what becomes of it is dependent  on who handles it and how the handle it.  So far many wants to have bitcoin  ditch  out  fiat not for the intent of  having total control of their funds but for the sake of funding illegal activities  online without  any point of trace,  regulations,  monitoring  or prevention.

Nah, I don't think that they are going into bitcoin because they are going to do some illegal things. Maybe just a small percentage, but majority of people are into bitcoin because it is one of the best asset right now.

But with the insecurity  and economic  crisis hitting the world from all angle is it still safe to agitate for a complete  decentralized  society  ditching  the fiat for bitcoin.  I only see both existing  together  with more preference on decentralization  but my concern  is if man is matured enough to handle the innovation or are you also seeing the abuse  of privacy coming along with it

I also does not agree with your premise here, fiat or central banks are one of the pillars of society and they have been with us for centuries. True, bitcoin disrupts the financial system, but it doesn't mean that it will take over and replace fiat is this is what you are trying to drive at.

[Gyfts]

But with the insecurity  and economic  crisis hitting the world from all angle is it still safe to agitate for a complete  decentralized  society  ditching  the fiat for bitcoin.  I only see both existing  together  with more preference on decentralization  but my concern  is if man is matured enough to handle the innovation or are you also seeing the abuse  of privacy coming along with it

I am pro-capitalism so I wouldn't mind an economic system in which Bitcoin and fiat co-exist, with Bitcoin acting as a competitor to traditional currencies to keep them in check. Fiat, or digitalized currencies will exist regardless if Bitcoin is mass adopted. You don't need to be a pro-BTC absolutist to recognize its merits as a global currency while also including in the conversation the probability that fiat will be around.

With the way things are looking, fiat currency will be rebranded as CBDC's and those digital tokens will then compete with Bitcoin. If a country has the economy to sustain the competition, I don't see an issue. Let the consumers decide whether they'd rather keep their funds in crypto or fiat. With how irresponsible is, it shouldn't be a hard choice.

[Darker45]

Privacy is a double-edged sword. Whether you implement it or not, there is always a set of advantages and disadvantages. There's an inevitable overlap. But it's not an issue of maturity. What you can see of humans today is what humans are. The issue is that there will always be a compromise. Without which, something is sacrificed. For example, we all want the government and everybody else to fully respect our privacy but, at the same time, we also want the authorities to assure our safety. The two can't be fully guaranteed at the same time.

[bluebit25]

We can completely choose what we want. Good and bad things always go together. And of course, disseminating knowledge to shape usage behavior is always important to see how that field will be used. Personally, I'm middle-aged, so I'm not too harsh on money laundering through privacy issues, but like the OP mentioned, information security reasons are what we need.