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crypto52322 (OP)
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April 22, 2022, 04:42:36 AM
Last edit: April 30, 2022, 10:50:09 AM by crypto52322
Merited by DdmrDdmr (3), OmegaStarScream (2), Welsh (1), ABCbits (1)
 #1

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LoyceV
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April 22, 2022, 05:14:20 AM
Merited by OmegaStarScream (3), pooya87 (2), ABCbits (2)
 #2

Any Bitcoin wallet should be able to do this, but depending on the address type you're sending to, the dust limit might be 546 sats (if the address starts with a 1). Any other address should be able to receive 500 sat.
Try Electrum for example, and set the minimum fee. Don't use an exchange for this, they have higher minimum withdrawal amounts and often high withdrawal fees.

That being said: what are you trying to accomplish? Sending dust isn't very useful for the receiver, and creating dust on the blockchain isn't very useful to Bitcoin. Maybe the Bitcoin Lightning Network is a good option for your use.

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April 22, 2022, 07:56:00 AM
 #3

Electrum gives error because amount under 1000 sats.
I haven't tried, but it could be Electrum has a higher minimum than strictly required by the blockchain. You could always use something like coinb.in, but only do it if you truely understand what you're doing.
Or just pay 1000 sat ($0.41) instead of 500.

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April 22, 2022, 08:18:50 AM
 #4

coinb.in Broadcasting gives error

Quote
dust (code 64)

reciepient is automatic payment system dont know if accepting more then total amount. Thats why looking for solution other may face too, because common mistake using wallet, which subtracting fees from amount instead of adding to it!

It's basically the same error as the one you got with Electrum. It's a small transaction.

Have you considered using the lightning network as suggested above? You should be able to use that if the merchant is using any of the following payment processors: BitPay, BTCPayServer, Coingate, Opennode.

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LoyceV
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April 22, 2022, 08:24:13 AM
 #5

reciepient is automatic payment system dont know if accepting more then total amount.
Testing it by sending 1000 sats costs you only $0.41 in Bitcoin Wink

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April 22, 2022, 09:11:56 AM
 #6

but the main amount already sent to the bitcoin address only waiting for the 500 sats missing to process.
Now it makes sense why you're trying to send 500 sat.
I've just tested it in Bitcoin Core: even when sending to a bc1q-address, it tells me anything less than 546 sat is dust. But it looks like it allows me to send it. I went up to the last confirmation window (but didn't actually send it).

Quote
can Lightning network top up the same bitcoin address if from these payment processors?
No.

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April 22, 2022, 11:16:19 AM
 #7

coinb.in Broadcasting gives error

Quote
dust (code 64)
Does the address you're sending into starts with '3' or '1'?
Because neither of those can receive less than 0.00000546 BTC.
It will only work if it starts with 'bc1'

Electrum has a list of default dust limit in its code here: /electrum/bitcoin.py#L351-L357

Note: '3' address may be SegWit, Multisig or other scripts but the network won't be able to see the 'redeem script' based from the address/scriptPubKey alone.


reciepient is automatic payment system dont know if accepting more then total amount.
If you also send the remaining 500satoshi, it wont be added to the previous transaction's output. It will be a separate UTXO.
So they might not accept it depending on how they process transactions.

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jackg
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April 22, 2022, 11:38:35 AM
 #8

I think you're better off just sending them the 1000 sats that you need for electrum to confirm it (or the 600 needed for coinb.in).

If it's a well known payment gateway then they'll normally accept multiple transactions and just add them but they'll normally say that on the payment screen.

(as a side note, it feels weird 1000 satoshi is 32p/40cents now).
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April 24, 2022, 11:31:47 AM
 #9

its a legacy address.

but somehow it should work!? these bitcoin faucets done this before!
For legacy, it wont work, it should be at least 546 satoshi.

When was that?
Because before dustrelayfee and when the default minrelaytxfee was higher, the considered dust amount was higher too since it's based from it.
I can't pinpoint the exact date but I'm sure that it was higher a few years ago.

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April 24, 2022, 05:10:05 PM
 #10

its a legacy address.
For legacy, it wont work, it should be at least 546 satoshi.
@OP: have you tried sending 546 (or 1000) sat yet? At some point the "automated payment system" may time out, so you shouldn't wait too long. If sending this slightly larger amount doesn't work, all that's left is contacting the service and asking for a manual solution.

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April 25, 2022, 03:22:11 AM
 #11

You can send your Bitcoin at the min fee rate at 1 satoshi/ vbyte. Depends on how small or big your transaction size is, you will have to pay different transaction fee. Transaction size depends on your input and output, address and transaction type (P2PKH, P2SH, Bech32)

Let's use the tool from Bitcoindata.science. Type number of input, output, address format and you will get the transaction size. You can try and see that there is good chance for you to make that transaction with total input at 500 satoshis and transaction fee would be around 200 satoshis.

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April 25, 2022, 05:35:01 AM
 #12

still working on a solution and want to get it accomplished with the community together.
As far as I know, only miners can "manually" include a dust transaction. But they're not going to bother, unless you pay them a significant amount of money. The community can't change what's considered dust.

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April 25, 2022, 06:00:52 AM
 #13

still working on a solution and want to get it accomplished with the community together.

so any further contribution to this thread is much appriciated.
The only reasonable "solution" that I can think of is to wait until 500 sats grows in value so much that it will be economically rational to spend the amount. By that time, the dust limit will likely have changed by the community and miners running software. You need to understand that everything in this system works perfectly because of competition, incentives and game theory. If it weren't for all these simple laws that govern people's behavior and minds, the system would have already broken down. If I see no reason to accept your satoshis, if there aren't incentives to do that, I simply won't. It is not because I don't like you or something, but because in this system people are powerful enough to decide for themselves, and think for themselves.

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April 25, 2022, 10:59:45 AM
 #14

the first step would be to get this transaction onto the blockchain, and thats where the community with more experience, understanding or knowhow can participate for working out a solution, thats this thread all about. after that every miner or mining pool can decide if the transaction gonna get mined or not (but the fees are not less then the actual standard one so why wouldnt they if thats their motivation and filtering mechanism?)
There's a reason the Bitcoin protocol now has a dust limit. Every dust output (UTXO) has to be kept in the database forever. To get a miner to include your transaction, you'll have to post the raw transaction somewhere (for instance here). But none of that is going to help you, while you can just contact the seller or whoever you're dealing with to arrange this.

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April 25, 2022, 11:32:45 AM
 #15

reciepient is automatic payment system dont know if accepting more then total amount.
looking to work out a solution with the community for here and now.
Here are your options:
  • Send 546 sats instead
  • Contact the other party or payment system operator and explain the situation
  • Privately pay a miner to include your dust transaction

I would just go with option 1. If it works, great. If it doesn't, then you're only out 546 sats, and then you can simply move on to option 2. Option 3 will end up being far more time consuming and expensive.
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April 26, 2022, 05:47:51 PM
 #16

still working on a solution and want to get it accomplished with the community together.
Can you tell us more information about receiver of that payment you sent?
One possible solution is that you send him internal transaction with 500sats using same centralized exchange, or he can just create new invoice for you.
If you are purchasing something from him, you can buy something else and pay with for new item with extra 500 sats.
Try to keep it as simple as possible.

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