The Bitcoin Paradox - a Simple Online Scam Honored as Deity

[Snowshow]

You benefit from the economic resources that new investors are bringing into the scheme.

Products and raw materials. From them people benefit through consumption or building them into final products. And again, no new buyers, that is, investors, are required. That is what economic resources are. They are things that provide benefit to people without the need of new investors.

At this point I think you are trolling.

Let us say I bought an entire Bitcoin, in a Peer to Peer manner.  I gave them cash, they gave me Bitcoin.  Why have I been fooled?

Let us say I sold an entire Bitcoin, in a Peer to Peer manner.  They gave me cash, I gave them Bitcoin.  Why have they been fooled?

Now onto the second quote.  You are telling me purchasing a piece of metal from a hardware store is a scam because they swapped Dollars for that piece of metal and now they can only benefit from it by finding a new investor.  What the heck?

You can purchase a TON of goods DIRECTLY using Bitcoin.  The company accepts Bitcoin, you get the goods.  Corporations did this a while ago, some of them still do it.  Steam did it.  Microsoft did it.  eBay is looking forward to doing it.  These are all just names out of my short memory, there are many more.  Look at El Salvador and tell me how this is a scam?

If I purchase a t-shirt off eBay using Bitcoin DIRECTLY, where is this 'investor that needs to exist for me to benefit off my Bitcoin'?  Answer is nowhere because, as I keep repeating, this is all just a fantasy of yours and nothing more.

In this situation, most antrepreneurs are scammers.  The local grocery store is scamming you because they can only benefit off their food by finding victims who voluntarily purchase from their store.

Admit it.  Your conspiracy theory is very flawed.

-
Regards,
PrivacyG

You ignored the entire point. So, I am going to make it easy for you by asking you one simple question: can anyone in the bitcoin scheme benefit from the scheme without new investors entering the scheme?

[1714603730]

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[BlackHatCoiner]

Translation of the above: "I don't have any other arguments, I desperately need you to shut up, 'cause I know I'm right".

[arcmetal]

You benefit from the economic resources that new investors are bringing into the scheme.

Products and raw materials. From them people benefit through consumption or building them into final products. And again, no new buyers, that is, investors, are required. That is what economic resources are. They are things that provide benefit to people without the need of new investors.

At this point I think you are trolling.

Let us say I bought an entire Bitcoin, in a Peer to Peer manner.  I gave them cash, they gave me Bitcoin.  Why have I been fooled?

Let us say I sold an entire Bitcoin, in a Peer to Peer manner.  They gave me cash, I gave them Bitcoin.  Why have they been fooled?

Now onto the second quote.  You are telling me purchasing a piece of metal from a hardware store is a scam because they swapped Dollars for that piece of metal and now they can only benefit from it by finding a new investor.  What the heck?

You can purchase a TON of goods DIRECTLY using Bitcoin.  The company accepts Bitcoin, you get the goods.  Corporations did this a while ago, some of them still do it.  Steam did it.  Microsoft did it.  eBay is looking forward to doing it.  These are all just names out of my short memory, there are many more.  Look at El Salvador and tell me how this is a scam?

If I purchase a t-shirt off eBay using Bitcoin DIRECTLY, where is this 'investor that needs to exist for me to benefit off my Bitcoin'?  Answer is nowhere because, as I keep repeating, this is all just a fantasy of yours and nothing more.

In this situation, most antrepreneurs are scammers.  The local grocery store is scamming you because they can only benefit off their food by finding victims who voluntarily purchase from their store.

Admit it.  Your conspiracy theory is very flawed.

-
Regards,
PrivacyG

You ignored the entire point. So, I am going to make it easy for you by asking you one simple question: can anyone in the bitcoin scheme benefit from the scheme without new investors entering the scheme?

Here is a take on "new investors" entering a "scheme", as you put it.

Let's imagine we live on an island in the south pacific, that has not been discovered, maybe off the coast of the Pitcairn Islands.  But now we have discovered the rest of the world, and so we wish to join their economy to get stuff we have never seen before.  So apparently the rest of the world tells us on the island that we need "dollars".

We wish to get a satellite phone, and a satellite connected computer, but first we need to get these newly discovered "dollars".  We don't currently have "dollars", but we have lots of coconuts.

We trade some of our coconuts for these "dollars". ... Now we can buy that new satellite phone. ... After trading our coconuts for "dollars", and trading our "dollars" for a new phone, guess what has happened?  ... We have just entered this new "scheme" of "dollars" as a new "investor".

(now just replace every word "dollar" in the comment above with the word "bitcoins", and you'll understand PrivacyG's comment)

[Snowshow]

Translation of the above: "I don't have any other arguments, I desperately need you to shut up, 'cause I know I'm right".

Well, you can say or think whatever you want about me. But people will still be unable to benefit within the Satoshi's system like they are benefiting within the banking system. Just imagine. All that energy spent for mining, all that economic resources invested into the Satoshi's system. The result? The holders have zero economic resources from which they can benefit, which is why they are at the mercy of new investors who voluntarily decide whether or not to enter the system and bring in the economic resources to save the holders. Crazy, isn't it? Instead of acknowledging this important fact, your are rather playing semantics on the forum and engaging in ad hominem attacks. How pathetic is that?

[Snowshow]

You benefit from the economic resources that new investors are bringing into the scheme.

Products and raw materials. From them people benefit through consumption or building them into final products. And again, no new buyers, that is, investors, are required. That is what economic resources are. They are things that provide benefit to people without the need of new investors.

At this point I think you are trolling.

Let us say I bought an entire Bitcoin, in a Peer to Peer manner.  I gave them cash, they gave me Bitcoin.  Why have I been fooled?

Let us say I sold an entire Bitcoin, in a Peer to Peer manner.  They gave me cash, I gave them Bitcoin.  Why have they been fooled?

Now onto the second quote.  You are telling me purchasing a piece of metal from a hardware store is a scam because they swapped Dollars for that piece of metal and now they can only benefit from it by finding a new investor.  What the heck?

You can purchase a TON of goods DIRECTLY using Bitcoin.  The company accepts Bitcoin, you get the goods.  Corporations did this a while ago, some of them still do it.  Steam did it.  Microsoft did it.  eBay is looking forward to doing it.  These are all just names out of my short memory, there are many more.  Look at El Salvador and tell me how this is a scam?

If I purchase a t-shirt off eBay using Bitcoin DIRECTLY, where is this 'investor that needs to exist for me to benefit off my Bitcoin'?  Answer is nowhere because, as I keep repeating, this is all just a fantasy of yours and nothing more.

In this situation, most antrepreneurs are scammers.  The local grocery store is scamming you because they can only benefit off their food by finding victims who voluntarily purchase from their store.

Admit it.  Your conspiracy theory is very flawed.

-
Regards,
PrivacyG

You ignored the entire point. So, I am going to make it easy for you by asking you one simple question: can anyone in the bitcoin scheme benefit from the scheme without new investors entering the scheme?

Here is a take on "new investors" entering a "scheme", as you put it.

Let's imagine we live on an island in the south pacific, that has not been discovered, maybe off the coast of the Pitcairn Islands.  But now we have discovered the rest of the world, and so we wish to join their economy to get stuff we have never seen before.  So apparently the rest of the world tells us on the island that we need "dollars".

We wish to get a satellite phone, and a satellite connected computer, but first we need to get these newly discovered "dollars".  We don't currently have "dollars", but we have lots of coconuts.

We trade some of our coconuts for these "dollars". ... Now we can buy that new satellite phone. ... After trading our coconuts for "dollars", and trading our "dollars" for a new phone, guess what has happened?  ... We have just entered this new "scheme" of "dollars" as a new "investor".

(now just replace every word "dollar" in the comment above with the word "bitcoins", and you'll understand PrivacyG's comment)

Dollar is the name or word for debt. Debt is an economic resource. You can replace words all you like but you can't create economic resources in that way.

[hZti]

You ignored the entire point. So, I am going to make it easy for you by asking you one simple question: can anyone in the bitcoin scheme benefit from the scheme without new investors entering the scheme?

Yes you can benefit from it since it is NOT a storage of wealth like so many idiots in this forum believe, but it is a decentralized currency that you can use to send payments.

[Snowshow]

You ignored the entire point. So, I am going to make it easy for you by asking you one simple question: can anyone in the bitcoin scheme benefit from the scheme without new investors entering the scheme?

Yes you can benefit from it since it is NOT a storage of wealth like so many idiots in this forum believe, but it is a decentralized currency that you can use to send payments.

You're supposed to explain HOW holders can benefit without new buyers - investors, not talk about concepts. Try again. P.S. "A payment" is a new buyer entering the scheme. The question is how holders can benefit without new buyers entering the scheme.

[hZti]

You ignored the entire point. So, I am going to make it easy for you by asking you one simple question: can anyone in the bitcoin scheme benefit from the scheme without new investors entering the scheme?

Yes you can benefit from it since it is NOT a storage of wealth like so many idiots in this forum believe, but it is a decentralized currency that you can use to send payments.

You're supposed to explain HOW holders can benefit without new buyers - investors, not talk about concepts. Try again. P.S. "A payment" is a new buyer entering the scheme. The question is how holders can benefit without new buyers entering the scheme.

You can benefit from the security and the anonymity of the system. One crypto owner can buy a good from another crypto owner and therefor both benefit from the bitcoin system. There is no need for a new buyer to enter the bitcoin ecosystem.

[Snowshow]

You can benefit from the security and the anonymity of the system. One crypto owner can buy a good from another crypto owner and therefor both benefit from the bitcoin system. There is no need for a new buyer to enter the bitcoin ecosystem.

But "buying" is still investing or bringing economic resources into the system. I am asking HOW holders can benefit within the system? From their holdings. When someone voluntarily entes the system and bring in the economic resources so that the current holders can benefit, that's not benefiting within the system.

[hZti]

You can benefit from the security and the anonymity of the system. One crypto owner can buy a good from another crypto owner and therefor both benefit from the bitcoin system. There is no need for a new buyer to enter the bitcoin ecosystem.

But "buying" is still investing or bringing economic resources into the system. I am asking HOW holders can benefit within the system? From their holdings. When someone voluntarily entes the system and bring in the economic resources so that the current holders can benefit, that's not benefiting within the system.

It is simply the definition of a currency. A universal storage of wealth that can be used to be exchanged for goods and services. Tell me how bitcoin is different than other currencies? How can you benefit from the USD without exchange it for goods and services?

[Snowshow]

You can benefit from the security and the anonymity of the system. One crypto owner can buy a good from another crypto owner and therefor both benefit from the bitcoin system. There is no need for a new buyer to enter the bitcoin ecosystem.

But "buying" is still investing or bringing economic resources into the system. I am asking HOW holders can benefit within the system? From their holdings. When someone voluntarily entes the system and bring in the economic resources so that the current holders can benefit, that's not benefiting within the system.

It is simply the definition of a currency. A universal storage of wealth that can be used to be exchanged for goods and services. Tell me how bitcoin is different than other currencies? How can you benefit from the USD without exchange it for goods and services?

USD is debt. From debt you benefit when debt is paid. I explained this a dozen times on this forum.

So, you're admitting the obvious - the holders are unable to benefit from their holdings, but only from new buyers/investors. Their holdings are then not money/currency/asset, but shares in an investment scam. And that's exactly the point of this topic.

[uchegod-21]

The OP failed to factor in the utility of Bitcoin.

He failed totally, I didn't read all his wall of text because I wasn't prepared for it. I didn't want to read something that will not be useful to me because I have made my own research about bitcoin.
What Op did'nt understand is that value can be created. The laptop we use is a rectangular box but the value in it made it superb. The fiat currency we use is a paper but the value it carry differentiates it from other papers.
Whatever you may think of bitcoin, provided that Satoshi gave it a value and the society has agreed with the value it carry and there is a secured and reputable way to secure the value bitcoin carry, we are not afraid anyday.

[hZti]

You can benefit from the security and the anonymity of the system. One crypto owner can buy a good from another crypto owner and therefor both benefit from the bitcoin system. There is no need for a new buyer to enter the bitcoin ecosystem.

But "buying" is still investing or bringing economic resources into the system. I am asking HOW holders can benefit within the system? From their holdings. When someone voluntarily entes the system and bring in the economic resources so that the current holders can benefit, that's not benefiting within the system.

It is simply the definition of a currency. A universal storage of wealth that can be used to be exchanged for goods and services. Tell me how bitcoin is different than other currencies? How can you benefit from the USD without exchange it for goods and services?

USD is debt. From debt you benefit when debt is paid. I explained this a dozen times on this forum.

So, you're admitting the obvious - the holders are unable to benefit from their holdings, but only from new buyers/investors. Their holdings are then not money/currency/asset, but shares in an investment scam. And that's exactly the point of this topic.

I think what you are describing in your opening post has one flaw: You describe an asset that is sold to people for their fiat money with no real value behind it in return. This for Bitcoin ist not true, since bitcoins were not sold to people by Satoshi Nakamoto. He only created the network and let people do work (mine) to get the bitcoin. If satoshi would have just sold all coins to people and then left it would be a scam, I can agree with you. This is done by many premined coins but as I said was not done with bitcoin. So in order to get bitcoins you also have to perform work, which makes it in return also debt based. TADA: it is not that different form other currencies, except it is digital.

[Snowshow]

I think what you are describing in your opening post has one flaw: You describe an asset that is sold to people for their fiat money with no real value behind it in return. This for Bitcoin ist not true, since bitcoins were not sold to people by Satoshi Nakamoto. He only created the network and let people do work (mine) to get the bitcoin. If satoshi would have just sold all coins to people and then left it would be a scam, I can agree with you. This is done by many premined coins but as I said was not done with bitcoin. So in order to get bitcoins you also have to perform work, which makes it in return also debt based. TADA: it is not that different form other currencies, except it is digital.

It's a scam in a sense that Satoshi in the Whitepaper claimed that his system produces money. Money is an economic resource from which people can benefit without new buyers or investors. Also, no one knows how many addresses Satoshi has in the system. So he is essentially benefiting from the disinformation written in the Whitepaper. He got real economic resources and left the holders only with units of his imagined number (21 million). Which is why literally all holders need the new buyers or investors to get the resources back. Without them, they are doomed. Hence, a classical investment scam.

[hZti]

I think what you are describing in your opening post has one flaw: You describe an asset that is sold to people for their fiat money with no real value behind it in return. This for Bitcoin ist not true, since bitcoins were not sold to people by Satoshi Nakamoto. He only created the network and let people do work (mine) to get the bitcoin. If satoshi would have just sold all coins to people and then left it would be a scam, I can agree with you. This is done by many premined coins but as I said was not done with bitcoin. So in order to get bitcoins you also have to perform work, which makes it in return also debt based. TADA: it is not that different form other currencies, except it is digital.

It's a scam in a sense that Satoshi in the Whitepaper claimed that his system produces money. Money is an economic resource from which people can benefit without new buyers or investors. Also, no one knows how many addresses Satoshi has in the system. So he is essentially benefiting from the disinformation written in the Whitepaper. He got real economic resources and left the holders only with units of his imagined number (21 million). Which is why literally all holders need the new buyers or investors to get the resources back. Without them, they are doomed. Hence, a classical investment scam.

I'm sorry but you are not understanding bitcoin correctly, since you are assuming that satoshi exchanged bitcoins for fiat money and then left. This is not the case since it is only recorded that he mined two blocks and one of them is unspendable. Meaning he owns 50 BTC in total and those were not spend also. Ofcourse he could have mined more blocks later but everyone could have done this so it is not right what you are saying.
Can you maybe tell what is the reason for you to fight random people on the internet about Bitcoin?

[PrivacyG]

You ignored the entire point. So, I am going to make it easy for you by asking you one simple question: can anyone in the bitcoin scheme benefit from the scheme without new investors entering the scheme?

First of all, this is getting silly.  First, it is you who is ignoring my point.  You are intentionally doing this because your arguments are becoming less and less valid with each of our posts.  I already answered your question multiple times in my previous replies.

Second, you continue to use the word 'scheme' next to Bitcoin which is more than definitely deception.  It is not a scheme, it is a system.

Back to the rest of your question.  I can send you $100,000 worth of Bitcoin without a third party interfering with our transaction and requesting documents for identification and proof for source of funds.

I can move $1,000,000,000 abroad without making anyone notice that I did.  It is a transaction stored in a public and transparent legder, but pseudonymity makes it so that there is no clear evidence of who I am and with enough privacy and care, I can make it close to impossible with the current knowledge, information and technology to link the transaction to my identity.

I can purchase a ton of goods using Bitcoin directly, at my own will, even by physically shopping and checking out in a similar way to credit card payments.  Only without banks.

I can store information directly on the blockchain.

I can use my own resources and energy to 'generate' or, as we say, mine Bitcoin at my own will.

These are just a few of the things I can do with Bitcoin.  This is how I benefit from it.  Tell me where exactly is the 'new investors' part in any of the five scenarios I have mentioned above.  Exactly, there is not.

If we are talking about price increasing from purchases and decreasing from sales.  That is how ANY asset works.  Offer and demand.  If you think I am benefiting from others who are purchasing Bitcoin and making the price increase, then any other asset in this world is by your definition a scam.  Gold miners are tricking you into believing Gold has value and scamming you out of your real asset: cash.  Because how else would they benefit from Gold if there was no new investor to purchase it?  But wait.  Now the state is tricking you into believing cash actually has value and scamming you out of your real asset.  Because how else would they benefit from cash if there was no new investor to purchase it?  And the list goes on, infinitely.

Now instead of intentionally ignoring all of my previous questions and replying with 'I know best, I do not even care what you are saying anyway', try actually answering them for once, you genius.  Because you always ignore questions but ask yours and want them to be replied to by us.  Either participate in a conversation or keep your monologue and conspiracy theory to yourself.

-
Regards,
PrivacyG

[hZti]

The problem is that he misunderstood how bitcoins were initially distributed. He thinks that Satoshi sold all the 21 Million BTC to the people here and then disappeared with their fiat money they gave him. But that is not the case since I don't think anyone ever bought a single BTC from satoshi.

[PrivacyG]

The problem is that he misunderstood how bitcoins were initially distributed. He thinks that Satoshi sold all the 21 Million BTC to the people here and then disappeared with their fiat money they gave him. But that is not the case since I don't think anyone ever bought a single BTC from satoshi.

So instead of taking only fifteen minutes of his time to read through a REAL source of information about how Bitcoin works and how it was created and distributed, he chose to invent, write down and even strongly sustain his own fantasy about how Bitcoin is a 'scheme' honored as deity.

Smart.

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Regards,
PrivacyG

[DooMAD]

So instead of taking only fifteen minutes of his time to read through a REAL source of information about how Bitcoin works and how it was created and distributed, he chose to invent, write down and even strongly sustain his own fantasy about how Bitcoin is a 'scheme' honored as deity.

Smart.

I think it's more of a cry for help.  The only attention they can get in life is when they troll Internet message boards.  It's the only time anyone notices they even exist.  A sad and desperately lonely attention-seeker.

It wouldn't matter whether they understood it or not, they'll keep lying anyway.  Because that's what provokes the biggest response.

[BlackHatCoiner]

I'll have to agree with DooMAD here, the problem is rather psychological. There's no point to continue arguing with him, and as a proverb goes, arguing with a fool proves there are two. PrivacyG, save your breath, what you're saying has been repeatedly told to him in other threads with even more ridiculous titles[1][2][3].

He's not going to read your response; he'll read a few sentences and say the same bullshit again. He must be feeling great he's understood something millions of others don't. But, that isn't enough. He needs to enforce his opinion to others. What a trashy scumbag.

Leave the troll go hungry.


[1] [VIDEO]: Bitcoin Exists Only in Satoshi's Imagination
[2] Bitcoin Doesn’t Exist, Or How Satoshi Nakamoto Tells Lies To People
[3] Bitcoin is a 'two-phased' product, which makes it ponzi/pyramid-like