Too all those saying "China FUD"

[TERA]

Justify yourselves. I'm tired of hearing this. What makes you keep saying that the China situation is FUD?

As far as I'm aware, it is a FACT that the PBOC issued statements in DECEMBER that third party payment processors and banks should not transact with bitcoin exchanges or in bitcoin. Since then, Chinese exchanges have ignored the guidance and continued to use bank accounts, and attempted other manipulations and tricks in defiance of their government. Bulls have been attempting to use sheer hope and willpower to turn this temporary situation into a permanent one and pretend that nothing ever happened in China and that everything is ok. They are deluded! To think that the Chinese government was not going to enforce PBOC rulings or for the bulls to think that they could go in and change the fabric of the universe to reverse things with their sheer bullishness, enthusiasm, and willpower. Moooooo! No! It was bound to fail eventually. Now the inevitable enforcement action rolls around. Even if the current news is fake (which I'm hearing it probably isn't), enforcement action could STILL be right around the corner, and I've been warning about this months, and how I never really liked this 'recovery' because it was always led by or supported by China which was doomed to fail eventually.

One more thing: Someone argued with me that cash vouchers were the reason everything was ok. You know well as I that it is not cash vouchers but bank transfers that have been moving the real money, cash vouchers are just another trick to defy the government which will probably also be banned, and that cash vouchers are not even on Huobi - the highest volume exchange, so they are practically irrelevant.

So anyway, anyone who still subscribes to the "China FUD" theory, explain yourselves?
1) Why do you think the rulings in December were fake, or did not really imply that bank accounts should not transact with Bitcoin exchanges? Provide proof. If there is a mistranslation, please provide the appropriate translation, and proof of how it is a valid translation.
2) Why do you think the current news is fake? Again, provide proof.

[inca]

Justify yourselves. I'm tired of hearing this. What makes you keep saying that the China situation is FUD?

As far as I'm aware, it is a FACT that the PBOC issued statements in DECEMBER that third party payment processors and banks should not transact with bitcoin exchanges or in bitcoin. Since then, Chinese exchanges have ignored the guidance and continued to use bank accounts, and attempted other manipulations and tricks in defiance of their government. Bulls have been attempting to use sheer hope and willpower to turn this temporary situation into a permanent one and pretend that nothing ever happened in China and that everything is ok. They are deluded! To think that the Chinese government was not going to enforce PBOC rulings or for the bulls to think that they could go in and change the fabric of the universe to reverse things with their sheer bullishness, enthusiasm, and willpower. Moooooo! No! It was bound to fail eventually. Now the inevitable enforcement action rolls around. Even if the current news is fake (which I'm hearing it probably isn't), enforcement action could STILL be right around the corner, and I've been warning about this months, and how I never really liked this 'recovery' because it was always led by or supported by China which was doomed to fail eventually.

One more thing: Someone argued with me that cash vouchers were the reason everything was ok. You know well as I that it is not cash vouchers but bank transfers that have been moving the real money, cash vouchers are just another trick to defy the government which will probably also be banned, and that cash vouchers are not even on Huobi - the highest volume exchange, so they are practically irrelevant.

So anyway, anyone who still subscribes to the "China FUD" theory, explain yourselves?
1) Why do you think the rulings in December were fake, or did not really imply that bank accounts should not transact with Bitcoin exchanges? Provide proof. If there is a mistranslation, please provide the appropriate translation, and proof of how it is a valid translation.
2) Why do you think the current news is fake? Again, provide proof.

So you sold your coins?

[esse83]

Stop spreading FUD! ohh.. sorry autopilot was on. Carry on.

[seleme]

To all of those that don't care about China - You're right comrades.

[Torque]

Well TERA, I think you wanted some decent discourse on this so I'll oblige.

I think when people scream FUD, it just means that they feel the Chinese government is cowardly for it's behavior in not providing clarity on their stance of bitcoin.  Right now if the Chinese government and PBOC wanted to clarify their stance, they could easily do that couldn't they?  But ambiguity is a form of oppression, of mind control, a way of inspiring panic and fear in their people.  And they seem to do that very well, in fact revel in it.

The news could very well be true, and most likely is at this point.  Whether it is or it isn't, the Chinese panic sellers believe that it is and that's all that matters to them.  Their actions today speak for themselves.  If they want to be sheep and sell everything, then so be it.

Personally I hope that the PBOC weighs in on this definitively in the next few days and I hope the news is true.  I hope that China dumps for good and goes away from bitcoin forever.  Right now they are a liability in all of this.  I think that's what the rest of the world is thinking as well.

[MatTheCat]

I think when people scream FUD,

When people scream FUD, it generally means that they are hearing things that they don't want to be true. Especially on this forum and especially you.

[thresher]

I personally think bitcoin value is going down the shitter and people are way to optimistic.
That being said, look at how many crashes china has caused over rumors of the same shit said differently.
So, for me China news is about as credible as hicks talking about getting sodomized by aliens. 

[Paladin69]

Justify yourselves. I'm tired of hearing this. What makes you keep saying that the China situation is FUD?

As far as I'm aware, it is a FACT that the PBOC issued statements in DECEMBER that third party payment processors and banks should not transact with bitcoin exchanges or in bitcoin. Since then, Chinese exchanges have ignored the guidance and continued to use bank accounts, and attempted other manipulations and tricks in defiance of their government. Bulls have been attempting to use sheer hope and willpower to turn this temporary situation into a permanent one and pretend that nothing ever happened in China and that everything is ok. They are deluded! To think that the Chinese government was not going to enforce PBOC rulings or for the bulls to think that they could go in and change the fabric of the universe to reverse things with their sheer bullishness, enthusiasm, and willpower. Moooooo! No! It was bound to fail eventually. Now the inevitable enforcement action rolls around. Even if the current news is fake (which I'm hearing it probably isn't), enforcement action could STILL be right around the corner, and I've been warning about this months, and how I never really liked this 'recovery' because it was always led by or supported by China which was doomed to fail eventually.

One more thing: Someone argued with me that cash vouchers were the reason everything was ok. You know well as I that it is not cash vouchers but bank transfers that have been moving the real money, cash vouchers are just another trick to defy the government which will probably also be banned, and that cash vouchers are not even on Huobi - the highest volume exchange, so they are practically irrelevant.

So anyway, anyone who still subscribes to the "China FUD" theory, explain yourselves?
1) Why do you think the rulings in December were fake, or did not really imply that bank accounts should not transact with Bitcoin exchanges? Provide proof. If there is a mistranslation, please provide the appropriate translation, and proof of how it is a valid translation.
2) Why do you think the current news is fake? Again, provide proof.

Sorry to hear you sold your coins in the 1-2 figure range and/or lost your coins.

[windjc]

Justify yourselves. I'm tired of hearing this. What makes you keep saying that the China situation is FUD?

As far as I'm aware, it is a FACT that the PBOC issued statements in DECEMBER that third party payment processors and banks should not transact with bitcoin exchanges or in bitcoin. Since then, Chinese exchanges have ignored the guidance and continued to use bank accounts, and attempted other manipulations and tricks in defiance of their government. Bulls have been attempting to use sheer hope and willpower to turn this temporary situation into a permanent one and pretend that nothing ever happened in China and that everything is ok. They are deluded! To think that the Chinese government was not going to enforce PBOC rulings or for the bulls to think that they could go in and change the fabric of the universe to reverse things with their sheer bullishness, enthusiasm, and willpower. Moooooo! No! It was bound to fail eventually. Now the inevitable enforcement action rolls around. Even if the current news is fake (which I'm hearing it probably isn't), enforcement action could STILL be right around the corner, and I've been warning about this months, and how I never really liked this 'recovery' because it was always led by or supported by China which was doomed to fail eventually.

One more thing: Someone argued with me that cash vouchers were the reason everything was ok. You know well as I that it is not cash vouchers but bank transfers that have been moving the real money, cash vouchers are just another trick to defy the government which will probably also be banned, and that cash vouchers are not even on Huobi - the highest volume exchange, so they are practically irrelevant.

So anyway, anyone who still subscribes to the "China FUD" theory, explain yourselves?
1) Why do you think the rulings in December were fake, or did not really imply that bank accounts should not transact with Bitcoin exchanges? Provide proof. If there is a mistranslation, please provide the appropriate translation, and proof of how it is a valid translation.
2) Why do you think the current news is fake? Again, provide proof.

Sorry to hear you sold your coins in the 1-2 figure range and/or lost your coins.

TERA has made a shit ton trading and is a bitcoin advocate, so get off his ass. When you lump people into a category just because you do not like what they say, that reflects on you. TERA is not a troll, making shit up to try to affect a price.

Now to your points, TERA. I agree, whether this current announce is true or not, I expect it to become harder and harder to trade in China in the near to intermediate term future. If and when Bitcoin becomes a more global system of payment, China will probably reconsider, but for now its an annoying blip on their radar. I think that is another reason they are ambigious about it. They really don't care as much as people think they do. Nor do they feel threatened in any way. I just don't think they see any benefit, which isn't surprising because China is not innovative by nature. They are copiers by nature. This is also why, despite so many bitcoin advocates complaints and gripes, the US is actually the most friendly bitcoin country to date and the biggest beacon to its potential global adoption. China can come later. The US is much much more important short term.

But because China did not "follow" through on their announcement months ago, that negativity did not have a chance to be fully rung out of this market.

The final Chinese "cleanse" has begun. And its probably going to be about as ugly as the Gox cleanse.

I think this will lead us to our final bottom. But its probably going to be another bearish ugly 3-4 weeks. And if $380-$400 holds a third time, it will be a testiment to a market with potential to move back up.  

Should be some volatility and lead to some good trading opps.

[TERA]

Why does every subject I talk about here end up with an irrelevant discussion about my own trading?

[hellscabane]

Regarding your second point (actually both to be honest), the onus is on the news provider to substantiate firm confirmation of the action. I've seen the statement regarding closing down the accounts of Chinese Bitcoin Exchanges, but when the PBOC goes onto weibo and says:

“Regarding the PBOC statement issued on 3/18 requesting all bitcoin transactions to be halted before 4/15, those close to the regulatory body told Sina Finance on Friday, the PBOC did issue a document, but it was not to ban/halt bitcoin transactions, instead to strengthen regulatory oversight of bitcoin transactions, circulation and redemptions.”

and another party says that the statement has "authenticity," one is clearly firmer than the other.

As we have seen before, it isn't uncommon for there to be a lot of misdirection and obfuscation regarding media, reports, and statements from China. That's why I stand firm with my statement saying that the onus is on the provider to fully substantiate such a claim.

However, maybe misdirection is part of the game plan in general? After all from a political perspective, if the U.S. is willing to accept bitcoin to a certain extent, China could easily slant in the other direction.

[MatTheCat]

Why does every subject I talk about here end up with an irrelevant discussion about my own trading?

Cos if u say anything negative about future Bitcoin price action it obviously means you are jealous and hate Bitcoin cos u sold at $100 or something.

[Elwar]

PBOC is the government? They have the backing of guns?

What does PBOC mean? Which division of the Chinese government does it stand for?

[windjc]

Why does every subject I talk about here end up with an irrelevant discussion about my own trading?

Cos if u say anything negative about future Bitcoin price action it obviously means you are jealous and hate Bitcoin cos u sold at $100 or something.

You mean like "Bitcoin is used to purchase illegal drugs that make people act like buttholes?"

[lyth0s]

Justify yourselves. I'm tired of hearing this. What makes you keep saying that the China situation is FUD?

As far as I'm aware, it is a FACT that the PBOC issued statements in DECEMBER that third party payment processors and banks should not transact with bitcoin exchanges or in bitcoin. Since then, Chinese exchanges have ignored the guidance and continued to use bank accounts, and attempted other manipulations and tricks in defiance of their government. Bulls have been attempting to use sheer hope and willpower to turn this temporary situation into a permanent one and pretend that nothing ever happened in China and that everything is ok. They are deluded! To think that the Chinese government was not going to enforce PBOC rulings or for the bulls to think that they could go in and change the fabric of the universe to reverse things with their sheer bullishness, enthusiasm, and willpower. Moooooo! No! It was bound to fail eventually. Now the inevitable enforcement action rolls around. Even if the current news is fake (which I'm hearing it probably isn't), enforcement action could STILL be right around the corner, and I've been warning about this months, and how I never really liked this 'recovery' because it was always led by or supported by China which was doomed to fail eventually.

One more thing: Someone argued with me that cash vouchers were the reason everything was ok. You know well as I that it is not cash vouchers but bank transfers that have been moving the real money, cash vouchers are just another trick to defy the government which will probably also be banned, and that cash vouchers are not even on Huobi - the highest volume exchange, so they are practically irrelevant.

So anyway, anyone who still subscribes to the "China FUD" theory, explain yourselves?
1) Why do you think the rulings in December were fake, or did not really imply that bank accounts should not transact with Bitcoin exchanges? Provide proof. If there is a mistranslation, please provide the appropriate translation, and proof of how it is a valid translation.
2) Why do you think the current news is fake? Again, provide proof.

Do you have "proof" from the PBOC that the current news is real? Or do you just have 3rd party online news sources saying that it is real?

I don't really care either way, but if you're so adamant that it is real, can you live up to your own standards and provide proof yourself?

[favelle75]

Yawn....so China bans Bitcoin (again). Price dips, people move on, price goes back up. Big whoop.

[gentlemand]

The Chinese government is hardly going to give a shit about informing exchanges. They're just a bunch of irritating nobodies in their eyes, if they're aware of who they are at all. If there's a decision it'll go straight to the banks and the exchanges will find out eventually from them.

[master-P]

As far as I can tell, it's still unclear on what position the PBOC is taking. I'm going to play it cautious in case a worst-case scenario unfolds. Don't listen to the people who bought at $1000, they'll say anything to try and get people to buy.

[oda.krell]

Yeah, never really thought I'd join that illustrious "perma bear" crowd, you know the one I mean, Blitz, ElectricMucus etc. But the reactions of the Bitcoin cultists are just too frustrating to stomach sometimes: on the faintest sign of good news anyone who cautiously asks for a source or verification is shouted down, while on the emergence of rather well-established bad news (like China right now), a majority is calling it FUD and feels bears are only trying to piss into their cryptocheerios. I remain as optimistic about the long term prospects of Bitcoin (or at least: of cryptocurrency as a whole) as I was, but that delusional subset of the investor crowd in here is getting on my nerves. Majorly.

[TERA]

Agreed. It is one thing to be bullish about a very bright future for bitcoin as world currency, and I don't have a problem with that. However, it is another thing to try to deny blatant facts and twist events around to manipulate so that so that everything is always perfect right now and support your desire for bitcoin prices to go straight to the moon right now and for everyone to follow along and buy. If you are really bullish about the future and the resiliency of bitcoin, then you shouldn't need to do that. That is just being delusional and manipulative.