Securing Seed Phrase Using Magic Mug Under $15

[AnotherAlt]

Hi Guys!

I guess it's an appropriate section to post this. If not, please suggest to me where I can move this.
I was thinking of a unique way to secure the Seed phrase, and I found one. I don't know if anyone has tried this already.
It's called Magic Mug in my country. I don't know what is the name of this on other countries. But, People usually print on mugs to gift their partner. So, I thought, why not try it? I know it's not 100% secure. It can be broken. So, Don't use it only to secure your Seed. It's interesting, Fun, and can be necessary sometimes. One of the best methods is to secure your Seed using washers: You can check this thread by fillippone Securing Your Seed Phrase with Washers

How does it work?: I guess everyone know does it works. Still, I want to describe it shortly. The Mug color is Black when it's Cool or at Normal Temperature. When pouring Hot water into the Mug, Mug's color will change, as shown in the photo below.

Before Pouring Hot Water:

     

After Pouring Hot Water



Pros:

• Cheap (Under $15)
• Uncommon

Cons:

• Can be broken
• Have to becarefull when print

Warning: Order at least two Mugs from different shops to print your Seed phrase, and never order online. If you can Order more than two Mugs, It will be better. Use it as a secondary seed phrase backup.

[Upgrade00]

Why would anyone want to use this insecure means of storing their seedphrase, when they can get a hardware wallet for a slightly higher amount (if you're considering you would need to get two)?
Contracting someone to create a design for you with random words, would give a hint to a Bitcoin seedphrase, as the words would make zero sense when arranged on symmetrically. Giving the hint that you own bitcoins creates a security risk as you suggested it should not be ordered online.

The cons should also include that it's;
• Difficult to carry around,
• Would need to be imported into a device to be able to transfer,
• Could inadvertently be destroyed, misused, or tampered with if discovered.

[NotATether]

A lot of the penetrations into so-called "secure systems, mechanisms, and processes" are done from the inside (inside job).

So if your spouse, brother or friend discovers it accidentially while using it (you're obviously not there of course), they could compromise the seed phrase without your knowledge, and you wouldn't have the smallest clue who did it.

When handling crypto, you can't really trust anyone unless you've done very valuable transactions with them before.

[LoyceMobile]

This looks fun for a qr code showing an address.

[mk4]

Why would anyone want to use this insecure means of storing their seedphrase, when they can get a hardware wallet for a slightly higher amount (if you're considering you would need to get two)?
Contracting someone to create a design for you with random words, would give a hint to a Bitcoin seedphrase, as the words would make zero sense when arranged on symmetrically. Giving the hint that you own bitcoins creates a security risk as you suggested it should not be ordered online.

The cons should also include that it's;
• Difficult to carry around,
• Would need to be imported into a device to be able to transfer,
• Could inadvertently be destroyed, misused, or tampered with if discovered.

I think the intention for this is to have a backup "hidden in plain sight"; just left on a cupboard. It's pretty much your backup on a thing that not even a thief would think of taking. Not necessarily something you would bring yourself everywhere lol as it's not a wallet in the first place.

But yea, I think this is nice if you could make one yourself; definitely not something I'd risk asking a manufacturer to make lol.

[AnotherAlt]

Why would anyone want to use this insecure means of storing their seed phrase,

I know it's not 100% secure. It can be broken. So, Don't use it only to secure your Seed. It's interesting, Fun, and can be necessary sometimes.

I think the intention for this is to have a backup "hidden in plain sight"; just left on a cupboard. It's pretty much your backup on a thing that not even a thief would think of taking. Not necessarily something you would bring yourself everywhere lol as it's not a wallet in the first place.

But yea, I think this is nice if you could make one yourself; definitely not something I'd risk asking a manufacturer to make lol.

So Simple. I asked to print two Mugs. You may print more than four mugs. If you make them from four different shops, I don't think anyone can guess you are doing something stupid to secure your Seed . If a single mug contains 3-6 random words, It's not enough to guess it's your seed phrase.

[mk4]

So Simple. I asked to print two Mugs. You may print more than four mugs. If you make them from four different shops, I don't think anyone can guess you are doing something stupid to secure your Seed . If a single mug contains 3-6 random words, It's not enough to guess it's your seed phrase.

A backup divided into only 2 has a good amount of risk. As for 4+ mugs, with that amount of wasted space the mugs would need, is it even worth it anymore? Taking note that more mugs = the more mugs you need to not break.

Idunno, at that point I'd rather just do something else.

[dkbit98]

Just imagine scenario when you need to use your only seed words quickly, but you don't have any hot water or fire to warm water 
I wouldn't use this magic mug for my seed phrase words, but it could be used for some fun crypto project that doesn't need to be super secure.
I don't know if this color changing gets weaker in time, but that could be one more thing to consider if you want to use them for this purpose.

[pooya87]

So Simple. I asked to print two Mugs. You may print more than four mugs. If you make them from four different shops, I don't think anyone can guess you are doing something stupid to secure your Seed . If a single mug contains 3-6 random words, It's not enough to guess it's your seed phrase.

Imagine if you forget the order of those mugs, now you have to find a programmer to write a script to brute force it With 3 words a mug (12 in total) that would be simple since it's just 4 mugs and 24 permutations (40k for 24 words) but still a pain in the bum.

[PawGo]

So Simple. I asked to print two Mugs. You may print more than four mugs. If you make them from four different shops, I don't think anyone can guess you are doing something stupid to secure your Seed . If a single mug contains 3-6 random words, It's not enough to guess it's your seed phrase.

Imagine if you forget the order of those mugs, now you have to find a programmer to write a script to brute force it With 3 words a mug (12 in total) that would be simple since it's just 4 mugs and 24 permutations (40k for 24 words) but still a pain in the bum.

haha
And you always may do it manually, moving mugs on the table. It would be some kind of "Hanoi tower" task

I have heard some microprocessors designers hide texts/images in their projects, I wonder if any of them hide any content related to Bitcoin.
https://www.pcmag.com/news/cool-images-hidden-on-silicon-chips

[Lucius]

Why would anyone want to use this insecure means of storing their seedphrase, when they can get a hardware wallet for a slightly higher amount (if you're considering you would need to get two)?

Hardware wallet only generates seed in a secure environment and gives us better control over transactions, but backup is something else entirely and is a key part of securing our digital assets. Any innovative way to make backups is always welcome, although we can always talk about how reliable and safe it is in some way.

I personally would not use mugs for my seed for the reasons already mentioned, but I believe that some information can be obscured by using invisible ink which is then only visible if UV light is used, or depending on the ink if a heat source is used or certain chemical.

[hZti]

I think it is a cool idea even if it has the same problem as all seeds that you can't print yourself. Still you could secure the seed with a password also for added security.

[ETFbitcoin]

It's interesting, Fun, and can be necessary sometimes.

I can see how it's interesting/fun, but i wonder what kind of scenario where this method is necessary. All i could think is main character on movies hiding their secret.

--snip--

I think the intention for this is to have a backup "hidden in plain sight"; just left on a cupboard. It's pretty much your backup on a thing that not even a thief would think of taking. Not necessarily something you would bring yourself everywhere lol as it's not a wallet in the first place.

But yea, I think this is nice if you could make one yourself; definitely not something I'd risk asking a manufacturer to make lol.

In that case, it'd be more practical to replace the words with number[1]. For example, number 777 represent word "genre" while number 8 represent word "abstract". When people discover it, it's more likely people would think you're into in "lucky" number[2-3].

[1] https://github.com/bitcoin/bips/blob/master/bip-0039/english.txt
[2] https://11points.com/11-popular-lucky-numbers-world/
[3] https://www.numerologyreader.com/what-does-the-number-777-mean-in-numerology/

[PawGo]

I think the intention for this is to have a backup "hidden in plain sight"; just left on a cupboard. It's pretty much your backup on a thing that not even a thief would think of taking.

Write them on the wall ;-) Something like:

For sure thief will not take it.

[LoyceMobile]

If you make them from four different shops, I don't think anyone can guess you are doing something stupid to secure your Seed .

I don't think we have local mug printing shops, and even if they offer it, they'd probably get it from a centralized printing facility. So that's not good.

Imagine dropping your mug and having to glue your seed back together.

[AnotherAlt]

Imagine dropping your mug and having to glue your seed back together.

That will be more fun 

[BitMaxz]

Imagine dropping your mug and having to glue your seed back together.

That will be more fun  

It's not fun it would be a pain in the neck if the mug is crushed and nearly pulverized.



Is there a magic mug that only shows hidden text when pouring cold water? We usually use mugs for drinking coffee with hot water so if someone didn't know that magic mug and used it to drink coffee then he can able to see the text.

So it is safe if it is a magic mug that can only show hidden text with cold water.

[pooya87]

In that case, it'd be more practical to replace the words with number[1]. For example, number 777 represent word "genre" while number 8 represent word "abstract".

It is worth mentioning that one should take extra care when using numbers instead of words since it works differently if you are using GitHub that is showing line numbers starting from 1 and a computer program that uses indexes that start from 0. In other words in an array, genre is 776.

[NotATether]

In that case, it'd be more practical to replace the words with number[1]. For example, number 777 represent word "genre" while number 8 represent word "abstract".

It is worth mentioning that one should take extra care when using numbers instead of words since it works differently if you are using GitHub that is showing line numbers starting from 1 and a computer program that uses indexes that start from 0. In other words in an array, genre is 776.

At that point, if you have to deal with off-by-1 errors to decode your seed phrase, you might as well just abandon the process. Most of the world's security vulns and bad bugs have come from good, bad, great programmers falling for the off-by-1 error trap.

[o_e_l_e_o]

I'm sorry, but saying "It's just for fun" doesn't give you carte blanche to give out horrendously dangerous advice which will almost certainly result in the loss of your coins if anyone was to ever follow it.

It doesn't matter if you buy from four different shops, or whatever additional "precautions" you think you are taking. At the end of the day, you are still handing out your seed phrase to complete strangers and transmitting it unencrypted over unsecured channels of communication, all to end up with an incredibly fragile back up which could be irreversibly broken or damaged with a single slip of your hand.

I cannot think of a single advantage this has over just writing down your seed phrase on paper. You should do that instead.