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Author Topic: Micheal Salyor decalogue for a 10x Bitcoin Appreciation  (Read 914 times)
JayJuanGee
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September 07, 2023, 04:56:39 AM
Merited by bitebits (1)
 #41

People like Michael Saylor are very useful to the cryptocurrency world.  Yes, perhaps some of his predictions look overly optimistic now, but he may turn out to be right in the distance.

I cannot recall seeing any Saylor predictions that are overly optimistic, and I doubt that he is really predicting anything that is much different from what other bitcoiners had been saying prior to Saylor's mid-2020 coming onto the bitcoin scene.

In other words, he seems to be a famous person who is very articulate who is saying a lot of the same things that other bitcoiners had already been saying, and I am not even denying that he is likely much more articulate than a large number of previous bitcoiners  who also do not seem to as easily get a large platform as Saylor.

If you recall, Saylor was a pretty damned newbie bitcoiner in August 2020, and he was already getting on all kinds of podcasts and even nation-wide (and international) news outlets from the start - and Saylor even took on a spokesperson's role in regards to bitcoin so he could show us that he was learning along the way, but from the start, Saylor was a pretty quick study in terms of being able to articulate information that was already out there and even coming up with his own analogies and bringing his own smartness into the mix.. and sure maybe he ended up bringing some new ways of looking at bitcoin.. but it is still like he has any more power or ability to see the future than anyone else, except sure there is likely a bit of a magnifying effect to have a number of people working with him (and for him) from the start, and including his choices to put on conferences and to tailor various bitcoin educational materials.

A lot of the early discussions of MSTR's/Saylor's involvement in bitcoin can be seen in fillippone's other thread on the topic.

Let's wait until 2025 - and then we'll see how right or wrong he turned out to be

Well, he was already shown to be a bit wrong in terms of some of the varying ways that he was stocking up on bitcoin, which kind of shows that even rich (and smart people) are not immune from having to go through bitcoin cycles and perhaps even suffer from the manipulation of other (even bigger players) and/or to fail to see certain kinds of overleveraging coming into the bitcoin space and/or tied to the bitcoin space.. so in some sense likely getting caught off guard from the severity of some of the so far 2022 bitcoin price corrections that might even be continuing to hold bitcoin prices down further and for longer than they really should be held down.  

Maybe I am playing off of some of the criticisms that Saylor receives for not really predicting anything that is outside of what many of us already know about bitcoin cycles, which is that they are pretty powerful, and not exactly guaranteed, but fools are likely going to continue to miss out on bitcoin because they either fail/refuse to buy any BTC or to buy enough or they end  up selling too many BTC too soon.

Many of us should appreciate that there is a lot of power with the likelihood of being directionally correct with bitcoin historically and likely the ongoing likelihood of continuing to be directionally correct without really exactly being able to guarantee any kind of exact timeline.. and merely if bitcoin is continuing to appreciate at least higher than the dollar is losing its value then it is doing its job, and there is additional icing on the cake if bitcoin ends up also beating other real property assets.. because of bitcoin's being a kind of real property that is way more moveable, and surely that is something that Saylor continues to repeat, and there really is no way that he can be wrong about his description of what bitcoin is, but at the same time, doesn't necessarily mean that he is going to get any kind of the timing correct.. or that he can take credit if he ends up being correct..

.....even though many of us who have bitcoin and who have continued to have bitcoin are likely getting some level of glee when we see bitcoin prices going up and then we have a kind of "I told you so" feeling going through us, whether or not we choose to gloat about it.. and bitcoin seems to never endingly allow for that kind of gloating every few years (maybe we can call them cycles), but perhaps the other portions of the cycle we look stupid unless we have been in a few cycles then we surely have enough of a price cushion that we can even gloat about how great bitcoin is, even when it is at the deeper ends of its correction periods..

1) Self-Custody is a right.  There is no such thing as "non-custodial" or "un-hosted."  2) ESG, KYC & AML are attack-vectors on Bitcoin to be avoided or minimized.  3) How much alt (shit)coin diversification is necessary? if you are into Bitcoin, then 0%......if you cannot control your gambling, then perhaps limit your alt(shit)coin exposure to less than 10% of your bitcoin size...Put BTC here: bc1q49wt0ddnj07wzzp6z7affw9ven7fztyhevqu9k
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September 07, 2023, 06:48:57 AM
Merited by JayJuanGee (1)
 #42

People like Michael Saylor are very useful to the cryptocurrency world.  Yes, perhaps some of his predictions look overly optimistic now, but he may turn out to be right in the distance. Let's wait until 2025 - and then we'll see how right or wrong he turned out to be

I think he understood Bitcoin better than many of us out there, and this "decalogue" has been one of the most underestimated statements/cogitations ever.
People are too focused on his DCA, but there's more behind it.
Ultimately, his target is turning Microstrategy into the Berkshire Hathaway of the Bitcoin World. Difficult with an ETF around, but possible.

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September 07, 2023, 07:26:38 AM
 #43

I saw Micheal Saylor discussing Bitcoin Strategy with Emily Chang:
....

The only proof of his prediction and his belief in his thoughts, will be the move to get a comfortable $1 trillion dollar loan Smiley And soon, he will exaggerate this amount to 10 trillion, easily close the loan obligations, repay the loan body, and become a legal trillionaire ! Or to give forecasts is one thing, but to act according to them is not interesting ? Smiley
I would rather believe that it was preparation and warming up the masses for the next crypto pump, where skillful manipulators will successfully nab fiat, than the reality that has a real justification.

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September 07, 2023, 11:29:11 AM
Merited by JayJuanGee (1)
 #44

I would rather believe that it was preparation and warming up the masses for the next crypto pump, where skillful manipulators will successfully nab fiat, than the reality that has a real justification.

Who knows? Bitcoin doesn’t need heroes, and you shouldn’t invest in Bitcoin because MS is a hero to you. Don’t trust, verify applies also to other people's intentions.
Sooner or later he will sell more bitcoin, this is inevitable, but I hardly understand hw this should affect your assessment of your investment.

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September 07, 2023, 03:25:16 PM
Merited by fillippone (3)
 #45

I saw Micheal Saylor discussing Bitcoin Strategy with Emily Chang: ....
The only proof of his prediction and his belief in his thoughts, will be the move to get a comfortable $1 trillion dollar loan Smiley And soon, he will exaggerate this amount to 10 trillion, easily close the loan obligations, repay the loan body, and become a legal trillionaire ! Or to give forecasts is one thing, but to act according to them is not interesting ? Smiley
I would rather believe that it was preparation and warming up the masses for the next crypto pump, where skillful manipulators will successfully nab fiat, than the reality that has a real justification.

I doubt that Saylor gives any shits about whether or not "crypto" pumps, and he mostly does not talk about crypto, but instead he seems to already know that the tail does not wag the dog, so why consider or frame what's happening or might happen in those kinds of dumb, vague and loosey-goosey terms.

By the way, Saylor seems to recognize and appreciate that crypto is largely an affinity scam against bitcoin, and he has largely made those kinds of statements, including pointing them out to be inferior product, pointing out that bitcoin is far and above anything else in the space in terms of a pristine asset and even acknowledging that a lot of people get distracted into the various snake oil and/or vapor ware of the non-bitcoin products.

I would rather believe that it was preparation and warming up the masses for the next crypto pump, where skillful manipulators will successfully nab fiat, than the reality that has a real justification.
Who knows? Bitcoin doesn’t need heroes, and you shouldn’t invest in Bitcoin because MS is a hero to you. Don’t trust, verify applies also to other people's intentions.
Sooner or later he will sell more bitcoin, this is inevitable, but I hardly understand hw this should affect your assessment of your investment.

You are pointing out such outlier kinds of scenarios fillippone.. and sure your overall point is still valid.

I will still quibble a bit and assert that Saylor has not sold any bitcoin so far, and the one time that anyone can point out to his selling (at the end of 2022, right?) has to do with a situation in which he bought more than he sold, so hardly even a sale in the whole scheme of things.

You might be correct that overall, there might be times in which he sells some bitcoin, inspite of his saying that he is never selling... and there could be times in which he is forced to sell because some 3rd party rug pulls him or some kind of a governmental persecution (forcing of the matter)... but still? 

Your overall point is that whether he sells or not should not matter too much about how anyone chooses to invest in bitcoin or not, even though there could be times in which Saylor ends up becoming bitter and rage-quitting or engaging in some kind of purposeful manipulation of the BTC price because he can, and he does not seem like that kind of a guy, but surely anyone is capable of getting caught too much into their own egos and engaging in seemingly erratic and/or self-serving/self-destructive behaviors based on known or perhaps yet unknown factors.

1) Self-Custody is a right.  There is no such thing as "non-custodial" or "un-hosted."  2) ESG, KYC & AML are attack-vectors on Bitcoin to be avoided or minimized.  3) How much alt (shit)coin diversification is necessary? if you are into Bitcoin, then 0%......if you cannot control your gambling, then perhaps limit your alt(shit)coin exposure to less than 10% of your bitcoin size...Put BTC here: bc1q49wt0ddnj07wzzp6z7affw9ven7fztyhevqu9k
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November 11, 2023, 11:20:08 PM
Merited by JayJuanGee (1)
 #46

Salor resonated the decalogue in a recent speech at the Australia Crypto Convention:

Bitcoin Boom: Michael Saylor Forecasts 10X Surge in Demand Within a Year, Predicts Multi-Million Dollar Future

Quote
MicroStrategy co-founder and renowned Bitcoin advocate Michael Saylor anticipates a substantial surge in Bitcoin demand, potentially reaching up to 10 times its current level within the next 12 months. Speaking at the 2023 Australia Crypto Convention on November 10, Saylor shared his insights on the future trajectory of Bitcoin.

The conclusion is always the same:

Quote
Taking a long-term perspective, Saylor made ambitious predictions for Bitcoin’s future, suggesting that it could outperform any other high-quality asset. He envisioned Bitcoin reaching astronomical values, stating that it could progress to a million dollars, $2 million, $5 million, or even $10 million per coin over the next couple of decades.



OF course, getting to these values, would imply the debasement of the corresponding FIAT base currency, in my humble opinion. 

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November 12, 2023, 01:30:31 AM
 #47

Salor resonated the decalogue in a recent speech at the Australia Crypto Convention:

Was it already complete or it remained lacking? The previous times he mentioned his decalogue, he provided an octalogue and sometimes a nonalogue. LOL!

Anyway, while I agree with many points in his decalogue, I feel like he's exaggerating in his price prediction of Bitcoin. 12 months from now and Bitcoin already hitting $370,000? Come on, that's not realistic. But, of course, such bullish kind of prediction serves him pretty well.

As to fiat's debasement, whether there's Bitcoin or not, fiat is all about it.

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November 12, 2023, 01:32:04 AM
 #48

Salor resonated the decalogue in a recent speech at the Australia Crypto Convention:

Bitcoin Boom: Michael Saylor Forecasts 10X Surge in Demand Within a Year, Predicts Multi-Million Dollar Future
Quote
MicroStrategy co-founder and renowned Bitcoin advocate Michael Saylor anticipates a substantial surge in Bitcoin demand, potentially reaching up to 10 times its current level within the next 12 months. Speaking at the 2023 Australia Crypto Convention on November 10, Saylor shared his insights on the future trajectory of Bitcoin.
The conclusion is always the same:

Quote
Taking a long-term perspective, Saylor made ambitious predictions for Bitcoin’s future, suggesting that it could outperform any other high-quality asset. He envisioned Bitcoin reaching astronomical values, stating that it could progress to a million dollars, $2 million, $5 million, or even $10 million per coin over the next couple of decades.
OF course, getting to these values, would imply the debasement of the corresponding FIAT base currency, in my humble opinion. 

The fiat currency system is already debasing, so I doubt that we need to presume extraordinary debasement for bitcoin prices to go up 10x in a cycle.. maybe not in a year but in a cycle.. which surely is closer to the 2 years from now range rather than the 1 year from now range.  Of course, we are going to have to try to keep both ideas in our head at the same time regarding how much is bitcoin going up in real terms versus the debasement of the underlying measurement. 

I personally attempt to predict in terms of today's dollars, but that's kind of unrealistic too because if we go to measure in 1 year or 2 year's time, we are going to be using nominal terms that would reflect the relative values at the particular time of measuring, and many times we do not go back and really try to battle out the real term values.. even though we likely can presume that bitcoin's appreciation has outpaced the debasement of the dollar.. especially if we zoom out 5-10 years. and maybe no need to go beyond that even though bitcoin is coming on 15 years of age, but really even arguments of its value 12 or 13 (in 2010 and 2011) years ago might not really be very fair measurements.. but when we get into 2012.. and maybe even more so 2013, there were more and more ways to establish fair market value.. and surely we have financial instruments (and ways to liquidate) still growing and being developed and implemented in the space... even though we have manipulation too. .and some of the gambling practices of entities (3rd parties) not having the coins that they claim to have, and so if they get caught, then that may well be a good thing.. but still is it likely not a problem that is going to go away anytime soon.

1) Self-Custody is a right.  There is no such thing as "non-custodial" or "un-hosted."  2) ESG, KYC & AML are attack-vectors on Bitcoin to be avoided or minimized.  3) How much alt (shit)coin diversification is necessary? if you are into Bitcoin, then 0%......if you cannot control your gambling, then perhaps limit your alt(shit)coin exposure to less than 10% of your bitcoin size...Put BTC here: bc1q49wt0ddnj07wzzp6z7affw9ven7fztyhevqu9k
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November 12, 2023, 02:41:17 AM
 #49

Quote

  • There's a lot of ignorance and fear. People think that crypto is the same as bitcoin. If they think that then, I mean, they don’t understand either of those two things.
I'm trying to digest this one point. This is a fairly basic point, but actually it is the most important point and also a point that many beginners who have just entered this field do not understand. I wish I could have understood this better earlier too. And this is indeed one of the important things that needs to be said more to overcome everyone's doubts and fears about bitcoin. I admit that MS is exemplary in his very optimistic and unwavering attitude when talking about Bitcoin and the speculation he puts forward for the future.
But sometimes he does exaggerate a little when talking about rapid increases and such. But even so, I agree with almost all the points he put forward. Although sometimes he seems too ambitious about the future price of Bitcoin.

However Bitcoin will indeed be bullish in time. But I don't think the increase will be so fast and drastic as MS is talking about. However, fiat continues to experience a decline in value whether consciously or unconsciously. It's not about a decrease in the value of one currency from country A to country B. But a decrease in the value of the price if bartered with objects that we usually buy and sell. Ah, sorry, it's hard for me to find the words to convey this. I didn't find suitable words.
But this is also what seems to be helping Bitcoin's price increase more quickly. In fact, in some countries there are citizens who trust their assets to be converted to BTC rather than their own country's currency. So in some countries BTC even reaches its own Ath based on that country's currency. Because the inflation rate is quite severe. or hyper inflation.

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November 12, 2023, 03:18:47 AM
Merited by JayJuanGee (1)
 #50

The fiat currency system is already debasing, so I doubt that we need to presume extraordinary debasement for bitcoin prices to go up 10x in a cycle.. maybe not in a year but in a cycle.. which surely is closer to the 2 years from now range rather than the 1 year from now range. 
Just since you two happened to mention debasement of fiat in relation to appreciation in bitcoin's price, it makes me think back a few years when I remember writing that in order for bitcoin to hit $10k/$20k/$50k that the global economy would have to be in such a crisis that any celebration of bitcoin's gains would be blunted by the effects of the crisis....and I was so wrong that I don't think I can ever be as wrong about something again.

I guess what I'm getting at is that the strength of fiat, its future, its downfall, whatever, may not be as correlated with demand for bitcoin as you or I think.  Or at least I was proven wrong so badly that I know better than to make predictions like the ones I made years ago (and I forget when those were, but probably around 2015-16).  And while I think it's unlikely bitcoin is going to reach a six-figure valuation anytime soon, what the hell do I know?  Markets have fooled me so many times that I've thrown in the towel and admitted I know nothing about how or why they move the way they do.

But here's hoping Michael Saylor's hexadodecalogue is on the money.

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November 12, 2023, 04:35:52 AM
 #51

The fiat currency system is already debasing, so I doubt that we need to presume extraordinary debasement for bitcoin prices to go up 10x in a cycle.. maybe not in a year but in a cycle.. which surely is closer to the 2 years from now range rather than the 1 year from now range. 
Just since you two happened to mention debasement of fiat in relation to appreciation in bitcoin's price, it makes me think back a few years when I remember writing that in order for bitcoin to hit $10k/$20k/$50k that the global economy would have to be in such a crisis that any celebration of bitcoin's gains would be blunted by the effects of the crisis....and I was so wrong that I don't think I can ever be as wrong about something again.

I guess what I'm getting at is that the strength of fiat, its future, its downfall, whatever, may not be as correlated with demand for bitcoin as you or I think.  Or at least I was proven wrong so badly that I know better than to make predictions like the ones I made years ago (and I forget when those were, but probably around 2015-16).  And while I think it's unlikely bitcoin is going to reach a six-figure valuation anytime soon, what the hell do I know?  Markets have fooled me so many times that I've thrown in the towel and admitted I know nothing about how or why they move the way they do.

But here's hoping Michael Saylor's hexadodecalogue is on the money.

I think that you are a bit negative on bitcoin, and sure it could take a bit of time for the BTC's price to get to $100k and beyond, but I doubt that it is as far out of reach as you are making it out to be...

Do you remember the 3.5x that bitcoin did from April 1, 2019 to June 29, 2019 (from $4,200 to $13,880)?  Well I doubt that Bitcoin's investment thesis and/or fundamentals or the various kinds of shortage of liquid bitcoin for sale is really that much different now as compared to 2019, even if we might be talking about a need to have 10x more interest (financial power) in bitcoin to have it pump from $42,000 to $138,880 in 3 months.. .or maybe it takes longer than that.. but it is not such a low probability event as you seem to be making it out to be, even though sure it may well be less than 10% odds of happening in the coming 6 months or so... but you never know.

Not to get too far off topic, but what do you think about my below numbers that relate to BTC prices until the end of 2025?  Am I being unrealistic? 

I am thinking that I might even be a bit more conservative (and realistic) than Saylor in regards to my timeline and then also the fact that I have various alternative scenarios and also I have odds assigned to each of the price ranges.. so his 10x from today of $370k in a year is quite a ways out there as compared to the way that I am framing it, and I would give his projection something less than 20% odds, maybe even less than 15% odds.. but it is surely not zero odds.. just seems to be a bit too much too soon.

Here's my off-the-top of my head updated odds for this upcoming cycle. which is working with UP only with a presumption that a new ATH will come prior to the end of 2025.

Let's say that we presume that a new ATH comes on or before the end of 2025, then what would the amount of the ATH be and what would be the odds of reaching (but not exceeding during the time period) that price range, more or less?

Maybe something like this?

Bearish:   $69,001 to $80k - 25%

Conservative: $80,001 to $150k - 35%

Middle: $150,001 to $500k - 30%

High: $500,001 to $1 million - 7.75%

Pie in the sky:  $1,000,001 to $2.5 million- 2%

SuperCharged Pie in the sky:  greater than $2.5 million- less than 0.5%

1) Self-Custody is a right.  There is no such thing as "non-custodial" or "un-hosted."  2) ESG, KYC & AML are attack-vectors on Bitcoin to be avoided or minimized.  3) How much alt (shit)coin diversification is necessary? if you are into Bitcoin, then 0%......if you cannot control your gambling, then perhaps limit your alt(shit)coin exposure to less than 10% of your bitcoin size...Put BTC here: bc1q49wt0ddnj07wzzp6z7affw9ven7fztyhevqu9k
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November 12, 2023, 06:20:17 AM
 #52

Quote

  • There's a lot of ignorance and fear. People think that crypto is the same as bitcoin. If they think that then, I mean, they don’t understand either of those two things.
I'm trying to digest this one point. This is a fairly basic point, but actually it is the most important point and also a point that many beginners who have just entered this field do not understand. I wish I could have understood this better earlier too. And this is indeed one of the important things that needs to be said more to overcome everyone's doubts and fears about bitcoin. I admit that MS is exemplary in his very optimistic and unwavering attitude when talking about Bitcoin and the speculation he puts forward for the future.
But sometimes he does exaggerate a little when talking about rapid increases and such. But even so, I agree with almost all the points he put forward.Although sometimes he seems too ambitious about the future price of Bitcoin.

I don think if Michael J saylor is in anyways ambitious obout the future price of bitcoin. Rather being optimistic in bitcoin. Checking from his history I have never seen him being such a person. His love for bitcoin is top notch and had no other intention. I think his 10poin conversation with Emily Chang wasn't because of his selfish desier of his multi-million investment in bitcoin to micro strategy but rather things he finds inportant to improve the growth of bitcoin. Even if all what he said weren't right with many people.

However Bitcoin will indeed be bullish in time. But I don't think the increase will be so fast and drastic as MS is talking about. However, fiat continues to experience a decline in value whether consciously or unconsciously. It's not about a decrease in the value of one currency from country A to country B. But a decrease in the value of the price if bartered with objects that we usually buy and sell. Ah, sorry, it's hard for me to find the words to convey this. I didn't find suitable words.
But this is also what seems to be helping Bitcoin's price increase more quickly. In fact, in some countries there are citizens who trust their assets to be converted to BTC rather than their own country's currency. So in some countries BTC even reaches its own Ath based on that country's currency. Because the inflation rate is quite severe. or hyper inflation.

Inflation of a country can never make bitcoin reach it ATH. It can not change anything or makes it reach it ATH or add any much value to bitcoin rather they will be free from hyper inflation if they convert there fiat to BTC.



Not to get too far off topic, but what do you think about my below numbers that relate to BTC prices until the end of 2025?  Am I being unrealistic?  

I am thinking that I might even be a bit more conservative (and realistic) than Saylor in regards to my timeline and then also the fact that I have various alternative scenarios and also I have odds assigned to each of the price ranges.. so his 10x from today of $370k in a year is quite a ways out there as compared to the way that I am framing it, and I would give his projection something less than 20% odds, maybe even less than 15% odds.. but it is surely not zero odds.. just seems to be a bit too much too soon.


Here's my off-the-top of my head updated odds for this upcoming cycle. which is working with UP only with a presumption that a new ATH will come prior to the end of 2025.

Let's say that we presume that a new ATH comes on or before the end of 2025, then what would the amount of the ATH be and what would be the odds of reaching (but not exceeding during the time period) that price range, more or less?

Maybe something like this?

Bearish:   $69,001 to $80k - 25%

Conservative: $80,001 to $150k - 35%

Middle: $150,001 to $500k - 30%

High: $500,001 to $1 million - 7.75%

Pie in the sky:  $1,000,001 to $2.5 million- 2%

SuperCharged Pie in the sky:  greater than $2.5 million- less than 0.5%
I don't know how you compunded this, but it's too unrealistic to me, ranging from each percent growth. I might still be a newbie to understand your analysis but I think your absomtion is very high. And unrealistic LoL.


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November 12, 2023, 10:38:20 AM
 #53

He’s such a breath of fresh air & will be seen as a genius within a couple of years. Reports say he is currently in $1,000,000,000 of unrealised profit with his/MSTR bitcoin holdings. Can you imagine what he will be worth in a couple of years. When, as is expected, bitcoin goes to over $100,000 he will be one of the richest men in the world. It’s fascinating to see his conviction.

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November 12, 2023, 02:38:59 PM
 #54

Not to get too far off topic, but what do you think about my below numbers that relate to BTC prices until the end of 2025?  Am I being unrealistic?  

I am thinking that I might even be a bit more conservative (and realistic) than Saylor in regards to my timeline and then also the fact that I have various alternative scenarios and also I have odds assigned to each of the price ranges.. so his 10x from today of $370k in a year is quite a ways out there as compared to the way that I am framing it, and I would give his projection something less than 20% odds, maybe even less than 15% odds.. but it is surely not zero odds.. just seems to be a bit too much too soon.

Here's my off-the-top of my head updated odds for this upcoming cycle. which is working with UP only with a presumption that a new ATH will come prior to the end of 2025.

Let's say that we presume that a new ATH comes on or before the end of 2025, then what would the amount of the ATH be and what would be the odds of reaching (but not exceeding during the time period) that price range, more or less?

Maybe something like this?

Bearish:   $69,001 to $80k - 25%  [a 2.3x to 2.67x price appreciation from $30k]

Conservative: $80,001 to $150k - 35% [a 2.67x to 5x price appreciation from $30k]

Middle: $150,001 to $500k - 30% [a 5x to 16.67x price appreciation from $30k]

High: $500,001 to $1 million - 7.75%  [a 16.67x to 33x price appreciation from $30k]

Pie in the sky:  $1,000,001 to $2.5 million- 2%  [a 33x to 83x price appreciation from $30k] 

SuperCharged Pie in the sky:  greater than $2.5 million- less than 0.5%  [more than a 83x price appreciation from $30k]
I don't know how you compunded this, but it's too unrealistic to me, ranging from each percent growth. I might still be a newbie to understand your analysis but I think your absomtion is very high. And unrealistic LoL.

For ease of reference, I have added how much of a price rise each of the categories would constitute in terms of using a $30k BTC price as a jumping off base (starting point for the run), and it seems to me that the main thing that I am assuming is that BTC prices will reach an ATH prior to the end of 2025, so then if it ends up that we get a new ATH prior to the end of 2025, then at least the lowest end of the ranges ends up being met. .By the way,  after rethinking this matter, I am would ONLY give around 70% to 80% odds of the BTC price reaching new ATHs by the end of 2025, so even in my own head, my presumption has around 20% to 30% odds of not even being met. 

Nonetheless, if the presumption is met and a new ATH is reached prior to the end of 2025, then the next question is merely a matter of how optimistic is too optimistic and thus becoming too unrealistic from your point of view. 

It also seems to me that the earlier that BTC prices breaches into new ATH territory, then some of the upper price ranges become more realistic.

At this time, I consider my timeline and by outline of various price ranges and even my assigning of odds to be quite a bit more realistic than the narrowness of Saylor's prediction.. even though surely he could end up being right but maybe he is ONLY in the ballpark of 15% to 20% odds of being correct, and my chart covers way more possible outcomes, but yeah even with mine, we might have to concede that it is may well ONLY be around 70% to 80% odds that we will even reach a new ATH prior to the end of 2025, so the mere assumption of reaching a new ATH prior to the end of 2025 is not a 100% given.

1) Self-Custody is a right.  There is no such thing as "non-custodial" or "un-hosted."  2) ESG, KYC & AML are attack-vectors on Bitcoin to be avoided or minimized.  3) How much alt (shit)coin diversification is necessary? if you are into Bitcoin, then 0%......if you cannot control your gambling, then perhaps limit your alt(shit)coin exposure to less than 10% of your bitcoin size...Put BTC here: bc1q49wt0ddnj07wzzp6z7affw9ven7fztyhevqu9k
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November 12, 2023, 04:17:35 PM
 #55

It also seems to me that the earlier that BTC prices breaches into new ATH territory, then some of the upper price ranges become more realistic.

Yes that's absolutely correct. If bitcoin reaches it ATH in 2025 then calculation or analysis can start. I didn't understand your absumption earlier but now I can understand your prio on bitcoin. If the all time high is achieved to about $80k, a little pumps on bitcoin would increase massively due to higher price. For example if bitcoin is on early stage of $30k %25 push might be a result of about $37.5k but if the price of bitcoin is at the price of $500k %35 growth will also pump to about $675k that will make it more realistic. With my explanation have I gotten your absumption right?

At this time, I consider my timeline and by outline of various price ranges and even my assigning of odds to be quite a bit more realistic than the narrowness of Saylor's prediction.. even though surely he could end up being right but maybe he is ONLY in the ballpark of 15% to 20% odds of being correct, and my chart covers way more possible outcomes, but yeah even with mine, we might have to concede that it is may well ONLY be around 70% to 80% odds that we will even reach a new ATH prior to the end of 2025, so the mere assumption of reaching a new ATH prior to the end of 2025 is not a 100% given.
Thats actually correct. I see the reason to why Michael J saylor's analysis might not even meet up the ATH by 2025 %15 - %20 sounds unrealistic because for bitcoin to achieve it's ATH it requires a massive push %100 and above.

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November 12, 2023, 06:52:04 PM
 #56

The reason leverage might reduce is to do with the dollar and deficit debt issuance, so long as thats around then there is an excess supply of dollars leading to possible excessive lending.  I dont see its to do with regulation exactly with the people in control of dollar have so little self control, BTC is global not bound to one country but its undeniable dollar tides and flows will have this influence.
   I see its likely the future is less regulatory if Dollar does decline, its hard to predict when chaos is quite likely if the world reserve currency should decline especially.  I cant see us switching to any other country alternative especially and neither can others I guess or we'd not be so lopsided to constantly track dollar as the main world currency and source of liquidity world wide.
  A ten piece plan is nice but I presume chaos not an ordered progression like we're going shopping and we'll get everything precisely measured as desired, you will get what you are given is my experience in life generally :p

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JayJuanGee
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November 13, 2023, 05:00:02 PM
Merited by fillippone (3)
 #57

The reason leverage might reduce is to do with the dollar and deficit debt issuance, so long as thats around then there is an excess supply of dollars leading to possible excessive lending.  I dont see its to do with regulation exactly with the people in control of dollar have so little self control, BTC is global not bound to one country but its undeniable dollar tides and flows will have this influence.
   I see its likely the future is less regulatory if Dollar does decline, its hard to predict when chaos is quite likely if the world reserve currency should decline especially.  I cant see us switching to any other country alternative especially and neither can others I guess or we'd not be so lopsided to constantly track dollar as the main world currency and source of liquidity world wide.
  A ten piece plan is nice but I presume chaos not an ordered progression like we're going shopping and we'll get everything precisely measured as desired, you will get what you are given is my experience in life generally :p

I personally believe that when making predictions in regards to future prices, it is much better to attempt to presume the value in current dollars and/or presume a low level of debasement (even though surely many of us realize that various status quo fiat systems have seemed to have had gotten themselves into such a pickle that is it is likely that debasement is not going to end up playing out in modest kinds of ways)..

In other words, what I am trying to say is that we should be attempting to project forward in terms of real world values rather than in nominal values... even though it might sometimes be difficult to determine if we are being various accurate in terms of our denominations of values.. such as how much a shopping cart full of groceries costs and what is the quality of the groceries, are we talking about actual real food versus artificial imitation food products... and yeah there are a lot of ways of attempting to measure prices outside of fiat currencies, even though that has been our common reference, but we are getting into situations in which we know we cannot really count on the dollar from even greater levels of outrageousness in its level of debasement, as contrasted with previous decades.

1) Self-Custody is a right.  There is no such thing as "non-custodial" or "un-hosted."  2) ESG, KYC & AML are attack-vectors on Bitcoin to be avoided or minimized.  3) How much alt (shit)coin diversification is necessary? if you are into Bitcoin, then 0%......if you cannot control your gambling, then perhaps limit your alt(shit)coin exposure to less than 10% of your bitcoin size...Put BTC here: bc1q49wt0ddnj07wzzp6z7affw9ven7fztyhevqu9k
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December 15, 2023, 03:17:20 PM
Merited by LFC_Bitcoin (3), JayJuanGee (1)
 #58

Finally, as the news was much anticipated, the FASB amended the accounting rules companies must follow when adding Digital assets on their balance sheets.

Standards Board Approves Long-Sought Change in Crypto Accounting Rules

Quote
Under current rules, companies have to record cryptocurrency holdings at their original cost and then write them down as an "impairment charge" if the value drops below cost—but cannot mark them up if the price rises. This method has drawn criticism for only reflecting one side of value changes.

The new FASB rules will require companies to account for digital assets at fair market value, capturing frequent price fluctuations. Gains and losses will flow through the income statement.

Having a mark to market pricing approach means the price discovery of the asset is efficient, meaning that the asset class is investable. Current standards actually tried to prevent swings in balance sheets trough a very cautious approach, that on the other hands potentially could lead to swings upon investment unwind.
This new rules is much more informative of the true value of the investment in the balance sheet, making it more transparent to the investor.

New rules will come in effect from 2025, but companies can anticipate the rule in 2024.

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.HUGE.
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December 15, 2023, 04:20:16 PM
Merited by fillippone (3)
 #59

Finally, as the news was much anticipated, the FASB amended the accounting rules companies must follow when adding Digital assets on their balance sheets.

Standards Board Approves Long-Sought Change in Crypto Accounting Rules
Quote
Under current rules, companies have to record cryptocurrency holdings at their original cost and then write them down as an "impairment charge" if the value drops below cost—but cannot mark them up if the price rises. This method has drawn criticism for only reflecting one side of value changes.

The new FASB rules will require companies to account for digital assets at fair market value, capturing frequent price fluctuations. Gains and losses will flow through the income statement.
Having a mark to market pricing approach means the price discovery of the asset is efficient, meaning that the asset class is investable. Current standards actually tried to prevent swings in balance sheets trough a very cautious approach, that on the other hands potentially could lead to swings upon investment unwind.
This new rules is much more informative of the true value of the investment in the balance sheet, making it more transparent to the investor.

New rules will come in effect from 2025, but companies can anticipate the rule in 2024.

I think that the below statement from the article more clearly states what you might have been wanting to say in your last sentence.

Quote
All public companies and private companies will need to apply the new rules, with an effective date for fiscal years beginning after December 15, 2024. Earlier adoption is permitted.

Essentially public companies have to apply the new rules after December 15, 2024, but they are allowed to adopt and apply the new rules earlier.. which likely means that any public company that holds significant amounts of bitcoin may well already be wanting to apply the new rules to any reports that they make about their companies finances from here on out (because they can and because the new rule is better and more accurate in terms of showing actual value as compared with the old rule).

1) Self-Custody is a right.  There is no such thing as "non-custodial" or "un-hosted."  2) ESG, KYC & AML are attack-vectors on Bitcoin to be avoided or minimized.  3) How much alt (shit)coin diversification is necessary? if you are into Bitcoin, then 0%......if you cannot control your gambling, then perhaps limit your alt(shit)coin exposure to less than 10% of your bitcoin size...Put BTC here: bc1q49wt0ddnj07wzzp6z7affw9ven7fztyhevqu9k
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December 15, 2023, 05:56:34 PM
 #60


The fiat currency system is already debasing, so I doubt that we need to presume extraordinary debasement for bitcoin prices to go up 10x in a cycle.. maybe not in a year but in a cycle.. which surely is closer to the 2 years from now range rather than the 1 year from now range.  Of course, we are going to have to try to keep both ideas in our head at the same time regarding how much is bitcoin going up in real terms versus the debasement of the underlying measurement. 



Is it?
You have no idea how it is when you paying 4 million $ for an hamburger.
Ask Venezuelans how its was with eliminated 14 zeros from their currency.
https://en.mercopress.com/2021/08/06/in-thirteen-years-venezuela-has-eliminated-14-zeroes-from-the-bolivar-currency

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