the China PBOC event explained

[medUSA]

What are the restrictions/limits on people taking/withdrawing RMB in Hong Kong or converting to HK dollars? Does the PBOC have any control over Hong Kong? I can see people easily taking a trip to Hong Kong and buying a large amount of BTC.

A Chinese citizen can not purchase more than 50,000USD's worth of forieng currency like HKD in a year.

Is it easy for a Chinese to walk over the border to Hong Kong with RMB cash, exchange to HKD locally and then buy coins on a Bitcoin ATM in Hong Kong?

[medUSA]

What are the restrictions/limits on people taking/withdrawing RMB in Hong Kong or converting to HK dollars? Does the PBOC have any control over Hong Kong? I can see people easily taking a trip to Hong Kong and buying a large amount of BTC.

A Chinese citizen can not purchase more than 50,000USD's worth of forieng currency like HKD in a year.

So the exchanges will move to Hong Kong. Chinese who want to buy BTC will be told by the exchange to send RMB to an exchange employee in China, who will then purchase HK dollars which will then be deposited in the exchange's HK bank account.

I think this will work, until the Chinese Gov pressurises the Hong Kong Gov to close that exchange too 

[seleme]

What are the restrictions/limits on people taking/withdrawing RMB in Hong Kong or converting to HK dollars? Does the PBOC have any control over Hong Kong? I can see people easily taking a trip to Hong Kong and buying a large amount of BTC.

A Chinese citizen can not purchase more than 50,000USD's worth of forieng currency like HKD in a year.

So the exchanges will move to Hong Kong. Chinese who want to buy BTC will be told by the exchange to send RMB to an exchange employee in China, who will then purchase HK dollars which will then be deposited in the exchange's HK bank account.

I think this will work, until the Chinese Gov pressurises the Hong Kong Gov to close that exchange too 

Hong Kong doesn't give a shit about China mainland when it comes to business as far as I know.

[zhangweiwu]

Is it easy for a Chinese to walk over the border to Hong Kong with RMB cash, exchange to HKD locally and then buy coins on a Bitcoin ATM in Hong Kong?

If you are a citizen of a big city, you can get a permission to visit HK (a big city's citizenship is damn hard to get, estimated 100,000USD for one BEIJING citizenship in average cost of efforts. Citizenship, called HUKOU, is vitally important  in China). If you are a citizen of a smaller place, you are allowed to go HK by joining a tour group, where the tour manager is supposely held responsible if you flee to a hidden corner in HK not coming back (in reality many tour group organizes one-memeber-groups for a fee to workaround the regulation). Hence you can organize a HK Bitcion tour, everybody go shopping in HK, shop for goods and coins. perfectly legal AFAIK.

[seriouscoin]

What are the restrictions/limits on people taking/withdrawing RMB in Hong Kong or converting to HK dollars? Does the PBOC have any control over Hong Kong? I can see people easily taking a trip to Hong Kong and buying a large amount of BTC.

A Chinese citizen can not purchase more than 50,000USD's worth of forieng currency like HKD in a year.

So the exchanges will move to Hong Kong. Chinese who want to buy BTC will be told by the exchange to send RMB to an exchange employee in China, who will then purchase HK dollars which will then be deposited in the exchange's HK bank account.

I think this will work, until the Chinese Gov pressurises the Hong Kong Gov to close that exchange too 

Hong Kong doesn't give a shit about China mainland when it comes to business as far as I know.

Seems like you dont know every far LOL 

[seriouscoin]

Is it easy for a Chinese to walk over the border to Hong Kong with RMB cash, exchange to HKD locally and then buy coins on a Bitcoin ATM in Hong Kong?

If you are a citizen of a big city, you can get a permission to visit HK (a big city's citizenship is damn hard to get, estimated 100,000USD for one BEIJING citizenship in average cost of efforts. Citizenship, called HUKOU, is vitally important  in China). If you are a citizen of a smaller place, you are allowed to go HK by joining a tour group, where the tour manager is supposely held responsible if you flee to a hidden corner in HK not coming back (in reality many tour group organizes one-memeber-groups for a fee to workaround the regulation). Hence you can organize a HK Bitcion tour, everybody go shopping in HK, shop for goods and coins. perfectly legal AFAIK.

Please call it "residency" , citizenship is a wrong word.

And you're a right in China, you cant freely go everywhere, to own a property you must have residency of the city. You can get it thro multiple ways (such as marriage...etc)

[seleme]

Is it easy for a Chinese to walk over the border to Hong Kong with RMB cash, exchange to HKD locally and then buy coins on a Bitcoin ATM in Hong Kong?

If you are a citizen of a big city, you can get a permission to visit HK (a big city's citizenship is damn hard to get, estimated 100,000USD for one BEIJING citizenship in average cost of efforts. Citizenship, called HUKOU, is vitally important  in China). If you are a citizen of a smaller place, you are allowed to go HK by joining a tour group, where the tour manager is supposely held responsible if you flee to a hidden corner in HK not coming back (in reality many tour group organizes one-memeber-groups for a fee to workaround the regulation). Hence you can organize a HK Bitcion tour, everybody go shopping in HK, shop for goods and coins. perfectly legal AFAIK.

Sorry man but China is seriously fucked up country.

Damn, that shit about permissions of leaving country remind me of dark period of my childhood when the country I was born in was communist Yugoslavia. What a dipshit communism is..

[seriouscoin]

Btw, HK IMO is no longer attractive for financial services like btc exchanges. If you want to attract mainlanders, Macau is the best.

There are many loan sharks in Macau that already has network in Mainland. They offer VIP service so the client can gamble in Macau and pay his debt in mainland.

BTC exchanges can hide under such network (trillions dollars) as it already has good connection with the officials.

[seleme]

Anyway, it's not really problem for exchanges, they can find the way around.

The problem is for regular Joe or Ji from China, and how he could easy invest into Bitcoin. If they close banks connection that's not going to be easy for him.

[seriouscoin]

Is it easy for a Chinese to walk over the border to Hong Kong with RMB cash, exchange to HKD locally and then buy coins on a Bitcoin ATM in Hong Kong?

If you are a citizen of a big city, you can get a permission to visit HK (a big city's citizenship is damn hard to get, estimated 100,000USD for one BEIJING citizenship in average cost of efforts. Citizenship, called HUKOU, is vitally important  in China). If you are a citizen of a smaller place, you are allowed to go HK by joining a tour group, where the tour manager is supposely held responsible if you flee to a hidden corner in HK not coming back (in reality many tour group organizes one-memeber-groups for a fee to workaround the regulation). Hence you can organize a HK Bitcion tour, everybody go shopping in HK, shop for goods and coins. perfectly legal AFAIK.

Sorry man but China is seriously fucked up country.

Damn, that shit about permissions of leaving country remind me of dark period of my childhood when the country I was born in was communist Yugoslavia. What a dipshit communism is..

FYI, the HK border restriction is imposed by HK government to prevent influx of illegal workers.

Chinese, as far as i know can freely leave their country as long as they have Visa to the foreign country.

[solarflare]

xiexie zhangweiwu!

Really, thank you for all the information you give us.
It makes a lot of sense and means the dip we saw today might just be the beginning.
It reinforces my thoughts that China will try to cripple bitcoin to avoid capital flight.

[seriouscoin]

Regarding the rumors, my theory is that the exchanges dont want to close their businesses.

The PROC didnt outright say btc is prohibited and illegal. The reason is they dont want public outright and being criticized by the Westerns. They always want to be looked at as a developed country....I would call the banking blockage is a soft ban making btc unfeasible for its ppl and eventually would make btc negligible.

Hence the exchanges are most likely finding another banking network to facilitate btc trading.

[solarflare]

Regarding the rumors, my theory is that the exchanges dont want to close their businesses.

The PROC didnt outright say btc is prohibited and illegal. The reason is they dont want public outright and being criticized by the Westerns. They always want to be looked at as a developed country....I would call the banking blockage is a soft ban making btc unfeasible for its ppl and eventually would make btc negligible.

Hence the exchanges are most likely finding another banking network to facilitate btc trading.

And imo, for the average joe who buys small quantities, websites like localbitcoins are much more efficient than exchanges anyway (if they're not interested in day trading). The "black market" will just explode.

[threecats]

Bitfinex operates out of Hong Kong. They are not affected by the Chinese Government.

Do you mean "Bitfinex operates out of China mainland, in Hong Kong; They are not affected by the Chinese Government."?

Because I always thought Bitfinex is a HK business, am I wrong?

Correct.

Bitfinex bank is in Shanghai, will this pose a problem?

[neuroMode]

I don't know why the Chinese central authorities want to cede future financial power to the West by banning Bitcoin. Bitcoin could wind up being worth hundreds of trillions of dollars.  A poor small country like the Phillipines could choose to aggressively adopt it and become an overnight super power in China's backyard. They better think long and hard about their decision. It could be the best or worst decision they make in hundreds of years.

Perhaps China is not that far-sighted?

[Lloydie]

If China did ban bank accounts of exchanges, this would be the best thing ever.

1. BTC China and Huobi will be forced to develop exchange market based on individual bank accounts transacting with one another directly.

2. The publicity from the ban will raise people's awareness of bitcoin in china. People will try to understand what is going on and why the PBOC feels so threatened.

3. After the initial drop in price, people will realise that life goes on. The PBOC cannot succesfully ban everyone's bank account.

[seriouscoin]

If China did ban bank accounts of exchanges, this would be the best thing ever.

1. BTC China and Huobi will be forced to develop exchange market based on individual bank accounts transacting with one another directly.

2. The publicity from the ban will raise people's awareness of bitcoin in china. People will try to understand what is going on and why the PBOC feels so threatened.

3. After the initial drop in price, people will realise that life goes on. The PBOC cannot succesfully ban everyone's bank account.

That would never happen, have you ever used banks b4? sound like some teenage's dream

[zhangweiwu]

Please call it "residency" , citizenship is a wrong word.

It's a bit confusing whichever way I put it. My Resident Card says Xiamen, but if I want to get HUKOU in Xiamen, hell, it is going to be difficult. This is because of the 'collective HUKOU' where I temperorily have a HUKOU in a city and have my resident card updated, but doesn't enjoy the full rights of the citizens there, and the HUKOU gets sent back to hometown in a few years when the collectiveness expires. Also the existance of 'temperory resident licence' for influx workers made it more complicated how to define residence. These are the documents bare similiar names but only HUKOU gives rights. I'll stick to HUKOU without trying to translate it then, and fall back to 'residency' occassionally.

[Lloydie]

If China did ban bank accounts of exchanges, this would be the best thing ever.

1. BTC China and Huobi will be forced to develop exchange market based on individual bank accounts transacting with one another directly.

2. The publicity from the ban will raise people's awareness of bitcoin in china. People will try to understand what is going on and why the PBOC feels so threatened.

3. After the initial drop in price, people will realise that life goes on. The PBOC cannot succesfully ban everyone's bank account.

That would never happen, have you ever used banks b4? sound like some teenage's dream

It's called direct funds transfer.

[CIYAM]

It's a bit confusing. My resident card says I am of Xiamen City, but if I want to get HUKOU in Xiame, hell, it is going to be difficult. Saying "Residency" is easily confused with resident card. But I think you are right, the nuance is trivial to others, and I should probably just call it 'residence'.

Yup - also for foreigners living in China it is *possible* to get a residency card (as opposed to a "temporary residence permit" which you otherwise need to have to legally stay in China) although that is not easy at all (I have only met 1 foreigner who has one of those which he only got after several attempts and who has lived in China over 25 years and ran a multi-million dollar business here employing 30+ Chinese workers).

I also agree with most of what zhangweiwu is saying - so it will be interesting to see exactly *what happens in mid-April*.

I would also not be surprised if things just keep going on as they did after Chinese New Year (and that this just keeps coming up every quarter as a way of "keeping people from feeling comfortable" using Bitcoin exchanges here).

Indeed the *biggest* concern the Chinese government really has with Bitcoin (and others) is capital leaving the country.