Should rules on plagiarism be changed and updated?

[jackg]

Rules are enforced based on the judgement of the enforcer(s).

It was discussed here that Theymos themselves thought a perma ban was too strict for plagiarism and efforts might've been made to change this (I couldn't work out if the is was just speculation though).

Most mods don't mod the same way, most boards don't allow it either (some boards have their own set of specific rules and some don't - think of making a duplicate thread on a d&t board because something has changed and it's considered more appropriate to be rediscussed for example).

[1714102857]

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[1714102857]

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[JollyGood]

If the rules are enforced based on the opinion or judgement of the enforcer that makes a lot of sense because it adds the element of issues being resolved in a timely manner. If nuisance posters were banned sooner rather than later it would be a good thing.

I know this does not happen but say for example the reporting involves the moderators picking up the report only to then pass it to other moderators for discussion and evaluation then it probably means swift action was not taken.

Having a moderator (an enforcer) interpret the rules and make his judgement with a huge amount of leeway means allegations of ignorance or favouritism can be levelled at them and that is something that should be avoided for the sake of community cohesion therefore one rule with strict enforcement would eliminate that potential allegation and problem.

Rules are enforced based on the judgement of the enforcer(s).

[avp2306]

The existing rule is so fine there's nothing to be change, the most important thing here is mods need to take action more faster against those people who do plagiarism so that they can clean up this forum and people can read original contents from real people who made extra ordinary efforts on their post.

[JollyGood]

I think there is a bit more to it than that. Some members receive a temporary ban while others a permanent ban depending not only on what they have plagiarised (or allegedly plagiarised) but also depending on how the moderator receiving the report applies their own discretion. As mentioned before that can lead to accusations including those of favouritism.

The existing rule is so fine there's nothing to be change, the most important thing here is mods need to take action more faster against those people who do plagiarism so that they can clean up this forum and people can read original contents from real people who made extra ordinary efforts on their post.

[Fivestar4everMVP]

Common rule violations

These are the most common rule violations that newbies make. There are other rules than these.

• Plagiarism: If you copy some text from somewhere, then you should have a good reason for it, and you must link to the source. Doing otherwise is plagiarism. Changing a few words around doesn't matter. If we find that you plagiarized, then you absolutely will be permanently banned, even if we find it years after you did it.

Is this rule still applied?

The only thing is that in some cases someone will not be banned for a case of plagiarism that is considered minor, that was a long time ago and that was only one time.

See what Theymos said in the quote above, it clearly read and i quote ..

If we find that you plagiarized, then you absolutely will be permanently banned, EVEN IF WE FIND IT YEARS AFTER YOU DID IT.

So from the above, theymos didn't make mention of some cases that can be considered minor, and he also didn't state that if they find the plagiarized content late, they will pardon the poster, he said that the poster will be banned even they find the plagiarized content years after it was posted.
So what I personally understand from this is that, the rule against plagiarism is still in full effect, that they are currently not taking actions on plagiarized contents right now does not mean they wont take action on it forever, they probably might be very busy with some other very important stuffs at the moment.
There is this parable in my place which says.....That you did not see flames or smoke in a fireplace does not mean the fire is not burning.

[uchegod-21]

I grew up in this forum with fear of plagiarism because I knew that it's punishment is pamban, and I wouldn't want anything that could make my account banned or red tagged. That is why I have to be very true to myself and the forum.
I first saw this kind of thread when lovesmayfamilis opened it and I read and understood many things from the thread.

What I understand is that moderators are being more lenient in treating plagiarism rules than before. It could be that they understand that the banned accounts still return to the forum.

When they say about handing plagiarism case by case, it means that if a moderator is in bad mood, he can ban you outrightly, while another moderator whose wife put to bed will delete the post and forgive the plagarist. It means there is no rule then.

[SquirrelJulietGarden]

See what Theymos said in the quote above, it clearly read and i quote ..

If we find that you plagiarized, then you absolutely will be permanently banned, EVEN IF WE FIND IT YEARS AFTER YOU DID IT.

So from the above, theymos didn't make mention of some cases that can be considered minor, and he also didn't state that if they find the plagiarized content late, they will pardon the poster, he said that the poster will be banned even they find the plagiarized content years after it was posted.

Now it has being changed. Even you made many plagiarism posts and we detected it, a few days or a several weeks later, you are still fine.

Even if you made it with financial incentives. In the past, forum gives second chance to members who were perma banned because of plagiarism if they made it not because of financial incentives and if they have good net effect.

Now I feel like the first condition is almost moved, just a second condition is in effect according to reports against plagiarism and complaints of some reporters.

So what I personally understand from this is that, the rule against plagiarism is still in full effect, that they are currently not taking actions on plagiarized contents right now does not mean they wont take action on it forever, they probably might be very busy with some other very important stuffs at the moment.
There is this parable in my place which says.....That you did not see flames or smoke in a fireplace does not mean the fire is not burning.

No full effect at all if you see complaints from reporters and if you see this thread has no engagement from staffs, moderators, admins.

No temp ban (not allowed to post), no signature ban, nothing.

No issue if from now, it is a new way to move as we are now in same train, with same rules but it is unfair for people who were banned 6 months, 1 years, 2 years in the past.

[The Sceptical Chymist]

I was surprised you did not come up with as many as possible users that plagiarized and not banned which is the only way you can defend what you are talking about.

I had the same thought when I read OP's post.  A statement like that is meaningless without specific details, and it makes it hard to criticize anyone or anything if you can't verify what's true or not.

But as to the question in the thread's title: Hell no.  The rules, punishment for breaking them, and enforcement by the mods are all pretty strict and consistent.  There's probably no way to make the penalty for plagiarism harsher, and there's no way in hell I'd support any slackening of how things are.  If the rules were relaxed, this forum would quickly turn into cryptotalk.org V2, i.e, a free for all for retarded halfwits who just want to slap down as many posts as possible with no regard for quality or honesty.

To anyone here who isn't aware, that permaban you get if you plagiarize content for a post is absolutely necessary, given that the majority of members here have enormous incentive to take the lazy road and steal a sentence/paragraph/entire article and claim it's their own.  Why?  Because more posts=more $.  That's why those fuckers who've broken the rules need to have their balls broken as fast and hard as possible.  If bitcointalk were lax about it, said fuckers would overrun the place and we'd have a grand royale melee taking place.

[SquirrelJulietGarden]

But as to the question in the thread's title: Hell no.  The rules, punishment for breaking them, and enforcement by the mods are all pretty strict and consistent.  There's probably no way to make the penalty for plagiarism harsher, and there's no way in hell I'd support any slackening of how things are.

Starting from this case. Starting to copy and paste, paraphrase after joining Livecasino.io campaign that is pay per post. I see the user is good enough but at least temp ban for posting is good to show the forum still has rules for plagiarism.

I am shocked when I read comment from reporters that there are more cases like that. I don't know what are other cases but reporters said they got same Good result for their reports, but no ban in any mode.

If the rules were relaxed, this forum would quickly turn into cryptotalk.org V2, i.e, a free for all for retarded halfwits who just want to slap down as many posts as possible with no regard for quality or honesty.

Hell no. Forum has good reporters and there are legends fight against spam, plagiarism, scam. We are not going to become a Cryptotalk.org v2,v3, hell no.

To anyone here who isn't aware, that permaban you get if you plagiarize content for a post is absolutely necessary, given that the majority of members here have enormous incentive to take the lazy road and steal a sentence/paragraph/entire article and claim it's their own.  Why?  Because more posts=more $.  That's why those fuckers who've broken the rules need to have their balls broken as fast and hard as possible.  If bitcointalk were lax about it, said fuckers would overrun the place and we'd have a grand royale melee taking place.

I wrote above. Now it is excluded from forum rule. Even no temp ban to post, no signature ban, nothing. Moderator only deletes plagiarism then it's done.

[Rikafip]

If the rules were relaxed, this forum would quickly turn into cryptotalk.org V2, i.e, a free for all for retarded halfwits who just want to slap down as many posts as possible with no regard for quality or honesty.

I don't know if you noticed, but rules are already more relaxed, or to be more precise mods are more relaxed when enforcing those rules. Just take a look at Mr.right85 case. If that is not worth at least signature ban, then I don't know what is.

To anyone here who isn't aware, that permaban you get if you plagiarize content for a post is absolutely necessary, given that the majority of members here have enormous incentive to take the lazy road and steal a sentence/paragraph/entire article and claim it's their own.  Why?  Because more posts=more $.  That's why those fuckers who've broken the rules need to have their balls broken as fast and hard as possible.  

I think that some middle ground approach would be much better than just permanently banning anyone who plagiarize. Those who come here only for the sole purpose of leeching off this forum probably won't be stopped with ban as they will create new account and start from scratch, while genuine user (its possible for genuine user to made such mistake) probably won't come ever again. Unfortunately, forum went from perma bans for copying one sentence to allowing signature spammers copy/pasting dozens of posts with no consequences whatsoever.

[Pmalek]

As the rules are unofficial...

Actually the rules are official, but the sticky thread and list in Meta is unofficial. It seems really weird saying this. Maybe the Bitcointalk governing body didn't give it's approval for the list to be official . The title of the thread says "Unofficial list of (official) Bitcointalk.org rules".

Everyone has noticed that the overall activity is dropping and this couldn't have been missed by the forum admins either. In a situation where people are leaving Bitcointalk, being less active, and losing general interest in the forum culture, the admins have two choices: they can continue to ban people for plagiarizing a few posts (even if it happened many years ago), or they don't do it as much as they did in the past and only ban the worst of the plagiarizers giving many others a free pass. They went for the 2nd option.   

[noormcs5]

Recently some plagiarized reports were handled without any punishment, no account ban (permanently or temporarily), no signature ban.

Is this rule still applied?

If it is not applicable, please edit those topics and that rule.

So you mean that they should update the rules that plagiarism is allowed    No way.
Plagiarism is not only the rule of this forum but it is a global condition that no cannot copy paste someone else text anywhere specially in the forums and sites.

Only because few of the cases are not handled or delayed, does not mean that bitcointalk mods have different opinion for plagiarism . Sooner or later, all the accounts involved in plagiarism will be banned.

[Z-tight]

As the rules are unofficial...

Actually the rules are official, but the sticky thread and list in Meta is unofficial. It seems really weird saying this. Maybe the Bitcointalk governing body didn't give it's approval for the list to be official . The title of the thread says "Unofficial list of (official) Bitcointalk.org rules".

Pmalek are the rules really official? I do not think they are, since they aren't "hard rules" i wouldn't refer to them as being completely official. On the topic, the reason why the mods might be lenient on plagiarism cases could be because Theymos himself is for leniency and for cases to be handled or considered individually.

In general, I'm all for being lenient. There are users who have been temp banned many times but still haven't been permabanned because their contributions outweigh their misbehavior. I actively disbelieve in the idea of a "rule of law" where hard rules exist and are strictly applied across the board as if we're all robots. Every case should be considered individually in the context of the forum's mission.

[Hispo]

I'm pretty sure they still punish plagiarizers. It's just that mods can make mistakes when judging posts from time to time (which is normal, they're human as well).

If you really think they passed over a good number of plagiarized posts, go create a thread so other people can check.

Your reply makes me wonder if it would be possible to integrate a reliable method to report plagiarism, run the reported post through one of those plagiarism checkers online and return the result to one of the mods on duty.

A better alternative could be also integrate an algorithm which scanned the posts right after being send, so they could get deleted automatically, or something similar, i am aware this could create some false-positive scenarios though. Assume that such system could be very expensive considering the amount of traffic the forum has, perhaps the admin could whitelist those with legendary rank.

Just an idea.

[SquirrelJulietGarden]

So you mean that they should update the rules that plagiarism is allowed    No way.

Do you read my opening post and only 2 pages of this thread so far?

Plagiarism is not only the rule of this forum but it is a global condition that no cannot copy paste someone else text anywhere specially in the forums and sites.

I read that the forum is the first and very few cryptocurrency forums that ban users with plagiarism and is the strictest forum with this rule.

Only because few of the cases are not handled or delayed, does not mean that bitcointalk mods have different opinion for plagiarism . Sooner or later, all the accounts involved in plagiarism will be banned.

Again, if you read less than 40 posts in this thread, you should not write this one. If you can not read less than 40 posts and follow the discussion, please post and spam somewhere else.

Reports are handled as Good and no punishment, no temp ban to post, no temp signature ban. Only reported posts were deleted.
I don't call on perma ban against someone but if the rule is reduced and becomes softer, three topics I quoted should be edited like 1st offense, 2nd offense, 3rd offense, 4th (last offense), then you will be perma banned.

[Pmalek]

Pmalek are the rules really official?

As official as they can be. One of the mods said the same thing a while back. That's how I remembered that the rules can be considered official. No idea where to find that post though or who said it. It could have come from hilariousandco or Welsh as they are the most active ones when it comes to posting and answering questions. But each case is still considered individually and the punishments differ from person to person.

[SquirrelJulietGarden]

As official as they can be. One of the mods said the same thing a while back. That's how I remembered that the rules can be considered official. No idea where to find that post though or who said it. It could have come from hilariousandco or Welsh as they are the most active ones when it comes to posting and answering questions. But each case is still considered individually and the punishments differ from person to person.

The sticky thread Unofficial list of (official) Bitcointalk.org rules, guidelines, FAQ are written by mprep so why don't check mprep's opinion on it.

Neither of whom are moderators. What you (and those 6 other users) are interpreting is an "unofficial list" maintained by me at my own initiative and on my own free time that (by it's own admission at the very top) is "meant to serve as a reference/educational/informational thread, NOT a rock solid list of rules". The entire reason as to why that thread exists is written down at the top as well (additional emphasis added by me):

Recently I noticed that a lot of new members don't know all the rules and I don't (usually) blame them since not all rules are written and even those written down can be overlooked by users who don't pay much attention to some stickies in select boards

[Charles-Tim]

The sticky thread Unofficial list of (official) Bitcointalk.org rules, guidelines, FAQ are written by mprep so why don't check mprep's opinion on it.

The rules may seem unofficial but they is used officially, even memebers on this forum are taking it officially, referring to it when someone go against the same unofficial rules. Example are 'no referral code (ref link) spam', 'no on-forum altcoin giveaways' and many others. Truly they are unofficial but the punishment are official and people refer to the rules for immediate actions to be taken by the moderator or admin. Even if the rules are not official, they are still official as they can be.

[Pmalek]

<Snip>

OK, good find. As you can see from the quote you shared, mprep is calling the list unofficial. Not the rules per se. It's an unofficial list. The word "unofficial" is an adjective describing what kind of list it is. So, it's a list of (official) Bitcointalk rules. It's better we consider them official because if we break them, the admins have valid reasons to ban us. Why the rules are not applied equally on everyone or not at all in some cases, is something entirely different.   

[lovesmayfamilis]

I know from bitter experience that you should not joke with any kind of copying. And those who are not banned today may receive a ban at the most unexpected time. Therefore, all of us, since there are exceptions to the rules, who to ban and who not, you should not worry too much.

One day, this merciless plagiarism checker bot that worked in 2019 may come to life again. And then everyone will be caught, those who copied three words and those who copied entire articles.

It's just a matter of time. All that can depend on us now is also to report violations, especially since it does not take much time.