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Author Topic: Is Bitcoin bottom there yet? Fear & Greed, Pi Cycle Top / Bottom  (Read 384 times)
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July 22, 2022, 05:42:42 AM
 #21

I think there is still bottom for btc which can be from 10k-15k because of inflation and some serious situation in world. In all seriousness, if we were just fighting inflation, I wouldn’t be so worried. But there are some real wild cards in the world today (war in Ukraine, China closed down, etc.) that Jay Powell has no control over. That makes it a very risky bet. That being said, I think there’s going to be another dip with some sideways movement for a while before we head back up again.









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March 19, 2024, 01:37:45 AM
Last edit: March 19, 2024, 01:50:24 AM by tranthidung
Merited by dragonvslinux (1)
 #22

Two years and now we are back, but with a different market, it's bullish now.

The question now, in 2024 is different than in 2022

Is the market reached to its Top yet?   Cheesy


Quote
The Pi Cycle Top is the most popular Bitcoin cycle top calling indicator that exists.

And for good reason, it was 1 day off from the top in April 2021 and between 1 and 3 days for every top before it.

But before that cross can happen, price needs to stay above the 350 DMA*2 priced at $70,400 and increasing.

It has been stiff resistance in every cycle.

The first touch of the Moving Average in a cycle has typically been the mid-top (purple arrows), but with price making new ATHs, this seems to be a late-stage retest.

Late-stage retests are much quicker and come before the true cycle top parabola.

This cycle still has plenty of room for growth!

If you want to look for more details, zoom in and zoom out, you can have a live chart with Lookintobitcoin.com.

What do you think?

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March 19, 2024, 12:19:01 PM
Last edit: March 19, 2024, 12:29:42 PM by dragonvslinux
 #23

Two years and now we are back, but with a different market, it's bullish now.

The question now, in 2024 is different than in 2022

For sure, 2022 was a bear year. For me, 2024 is supposed to be a consolidation year (from the 2022 bear and 2023 recovery).

The fact we've massively overshot the recovery to new ATH doesn't change much for me.

Maybe you meant 2020 as the comparison...

Is the market reached to its Top yet?   Cheesy

Too early to tell, price could easily find support around $60K and return to new ATH. It all depends on ETF inflows at this point, more than anything. Technical analysis will confirm either way, but it will likely be a lagging indicator to some degree.  Namely, whether ETF inflows will outpace outflows, regarding GBTC selling. This wasn't the case in the correction from $48K when we saw more outflows, but with ETFs so fresh, it wasn't possible to make much of an assessment. Now we see another outflow day (though not major outflows compared to the major inflows we have seen), I suspect the inflows will be higher when trending up, and the outflows will be higher when trending down, at least until GBTC is flushed out the system. This would also be pretty usual for ETF activity of buying strength as opposed to weakness. There otherwise isn't a lot of GBTC left, but there is a enough that needs to be shifted. This backlog needs to be cleared out imo for a healthy uptrend, even if that only takes another month or two based on current holding and outflows.

Quote
The Pi Cycle Top is the most popular Bitcoin cycle top calling indicator that exists.

And for good reason, it was 1 day off from the top in April 2021 and between 1 and 3 days for every top before it.

But before that cross can happen, price needs to stay above the 350 DMA*2 priced at $70,400 and increasing.

It has been stiff resistance in every cycle.

The first touch of the Moving Average in a cycle has typically been the mid-top (purple arrows), but with price making new ATHs, this seems to be a late-stage retest.

Late-stage retests are much quicker and come before the true cycle top parabola.

This cycle still has plenty of room for growth!

If you want to look for more details, zoom in and zoom out, you can have a live chart with Lookintobitcoin.com.

What do you think?

That's an interesting chart not gonna lie. I had never considered these "mid-cycle" top signals, such as 2012, 2016 and 2019.

However there's something notably wrong about the analysis painted over this. It's assuming the first test of the 350 DMA*2 is the late stage top, as opposed to the mid-stage, as per every cycle. While it could be, we have never had a late stage top (ie, beginning of bull market) without a mid-stage. Secondly, just because the mid-stage came in 2019 last cycle, it has also previously been in 2012 and 2016, based on the 4 year cycle, it stands to reason that this is the mid-stage top. Note how the late stage top came late 2020 and early 2013 & 2017, as opposed to early 2020. So we're about 10 months off for this imo. Hence we've never seen the late stage top leading to a bull market pre-halving, so there is that as well, for those who still consider the 4 year cycle in tact despite the new ATH (a view I still subscribe to at least based on time).

I've otherwise been expecting a mid-stage top with a significant correction of around -50%, taking 3-9 months, since $48K (0.618 fib retracement level), even if price reached $80K etc. In hindsight, this chart would of been useful to see where a mid-stage top would more likely be. Interestingly, top cycle top indicator was the only reliable one in late 2021, compared to all the rest that pointed to further upside, so it shouldn't be ignored as random or otherwise. Either way, I'd say the chart is accurate in the sense that this is either the start of the bull market, or we're looking at a mid-stage considerable correction (in time and price).

Quote
But before that cross can happen, price needs to stay above the 350 DMA*2 priced at $70,400 and increasing.

This sums it up nicely. It lacks confirmation it's a late-stage top, at the moment it's speculative. I'm not sure what the confirmation of a mid-stage top would be, but personally it'd be breaking the current "immediate term" uptrend, proabably around $60K higher low, then we can see how strong the support is around $40K to $45K. Most people seem certain that we will never see $50K again which is worrying. Personally I think there is a reasonable chance, especially if this week confirms a new ATH fake-out similar to 2021 and $60K foesn't hold as support, as there's very weak volume support in between, ETFs aside.

Will consider making a poll/topic when/if we reach $60K to see if the sentiment is returning to new ATH or $50K. I suspect most people won't believe a correction is happening until it's already happened.

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March 19, 2024, 01:54:24 PM
Merited by dragonvslinux (1)
 #24

For sure, 2022 was a bear year. For me, 2024 is supposed to be a consolidation year (from the 2022 bear and 2023 recovery).
The noise from Bitcoin Spot ETF applications, Grayscale won lawsuit against SEC, appearance of Black Rock changed a lot. Without them, we probably have Bitcoin lower than $50,000, not a new all time high before halving.

Quote
The fact we've massively overshot the recovery to new ATH doesn't change much for me.
This is an expensive question and also lesson for many people. They naively think this time will be different, but the market, the psychology of market participants are not different. So mostly we don't have any different time.

Quote
Maybe you meant 2020 as the comparison...
Nope. I actually meant 2020 (the time this thread was created) and this year, when we surprisingly have a new all time high. I did it to make a funny question only.

I agree that to compare two cycles, it makes more sense to compare 2024 and 2020.

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dragonvslinux
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March 19, 2024, 05:26:28 PM
 #25

For sure, 2022 was a bear year. For me, 2024 is supposed to be a consolidation year (from the 2022 bear and 2023 recovery).
The noise from Bitcoin Spot ETF applications, Grayscale won lawsuit against SEC, appearance of Black Rock changed a lot. Without them, we probably have Bitcoin lower than $50,000, not a new all time high before halving.

Yes, this I agree with and have maintained as an opinion since the ETF. For now, the ETFs will follow the market, not the other way around. At least until most Bitcoin held long-term is in ETFs rather than self-custody.

Quote
The fact we've massively overshot the recovery to new ATH doesn't change much for me.
This is an expensive question and also lesson for many people. They naively think this time will be different, but the market, the psychology of market participants are not different. So mostly we don't have any different time.

This time it still could be different, and arguably already has been different. That of making an ATH prior to the halving which has never happened before. But I think price aside, the dyanmics of the 4 year cycle will still play out, especially since the current recovery has been over 12 months, meaning there is a lot of room for 3-9 months of consolidation, starting with a correction.

Quote
Maybe you meant 2020 as the comparison...
Nope. I actually meant 2020 (the time this thread was created) and this year, when we surprisingly have a new all time high. I did it to make a funny question only.

Well you said 2022, not 2020, so wasn't that funny  Tongue

I agree that to compare two cycles, it makes more sense to compare 2024 and 2020.

Even if you compare to 2024 to 2016, there's not a lot of difference. Namely a correction followed by correction prior to and after the halving.

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March 19, 2024, 05:31:03 PM
 #26

I sort of feel like the bottom of this correction isn't in yet, just because I'm not feeling emotional about it one way or the other yet.  Usually at the bottom of a correction I'm considering moving funds to an exchange to sell and feel sad like I missed out on what could have been.  I don't feel that way at all right now.  I'm just happy that we're above $50K and heading into the halving.  Even if we do continue to fall another 10-20%, I still think we're going to end up with a $100,000 BTC price by Halloween and possibly a $200K price a year from now.  So while I wouldn't fault someone for taking a little off the table, I still think we've got more gains in store over the next 18 months.

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March 19, 2024, 07:18:35 PM
 #27

I've seen in the past years that no matter what indicators you're looking for, there's a very good chance that the reality will be based on one you've missed  Smiley
Since then I no longer try to find the bottom. It's too risky.


I don't think trying to time the dip works at all and if that's all you've got like waiting for the dip to buy then you woudl surely miss out on a lot of good opportunities to buy bitcoin and you would probably miss the dip that you are even waiting for, why not use the DCA strategy to buy bitcoin that way you would have less worries missing the dip and surely one of your weekly buys would be on a dip or if you have noticed that the price if bitcoin is on a decline you can set your DCA strategy to buy at more intervals at that period of time, and that way your average cost for buying would maybe sum up to the lowest dip price or even closer.

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March 19, 2024, 07:59:19 PM
 #28

I've seen in the past years that no matter what indicators you're looking for, there's a very good chance that the reality will be based on one you've missed  Smiley
Since then I no longer try to find the bottom. It's too risky.


I don't think trying to time the dip works at all and if that's all you've got like waiting for the dip to buy then you woudl surely miss out on a lot of good opportunities to buy bitcoin and you would probably miss the dip that you are even waiting for, why not use the DCA strategy to buy bitcoin that way you would have less worries missing the dip and surely one of your weekly buys would be on a dip or if you have noticed that the price if bitcoin is on a decline you can set your DCA strategy to buy at more intervals at that period of time, and that way your average cost for buying would maybe sum up to the lowest dip price or even closer.
With the recent drop, can we consider it to be the bottom? We've seen the price did make out some correction and the drop is -10k, People or community been anticipating drops considering that we've been able to break those all time highs and creating one. So it would be normal that there would be corrections but are those drops that we are waiting for? For sure it won and people been expecting more deeper.

This is why actions be made would really be that depending on a certain individual whether they would really be positioning themselves or would really be waiting up for something more deeper.
Well, cant blame out considering that we would really be waiting into something more lower price and to have that maximize profitability.
It would be a matter of choice considering that movement of prices is always been that random and cant be known.

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March 20, 2024, 02:56:20 AM
Merited by dragonvslinux (1)
 #29

I sort of feel like the bottom of this correction isn't in yet, just because I'm not feeling emotional about it one way or the other yet.  Usually at the bottom of a correction I'm considering moving funds to an exchange to sell and feel sad like I missed out on what could have been.  I don't feel that way at all right now.  I'm just happy that we're above $50K and heading into the halving.
From historic Bitcoin drawdowns in bull market, the current drawdown is still smaller than previous cycle. It is about -15% drawdown now and that equals to average drawdown.

I see chance that Bitcoin will have another downstair drawdown to about $51,000 to $53,000 before it completes a big correction for the mid-top of 2024 - 2025 bull market.

Bitcoin price history, ATHs and bottoms.


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March 20, 2024, 04:15:36 AM
 #30

Thanks for posting the photo.

I think the drawdown won’t be as bad as the previous cycles because we have more liquidity now than before. If we keep dipping and say touch 30% or 40% I will start to get nervous and think that the $74K was indeed the top.

However we need to see the etf flows as time goes on. Will more people invest with bitcoin on the dip or are people only buying bitcoin etfs when we print new highs. So far yesterday we were -150M or so. Wondering what todays session brought.

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March 20, 2024, 07:06:14 AM
 #31

Thanks for posting the photo.
Just sharing, not my work, but thanks for your kind words.

Quote
I think the drawdown won’t be as bad as the previous cycles because we have more liquidity now than before. If we keep dipping and say touch 30% or 40% I will start to get nervous and think that the $74K was indeed the top.
Glassnode just released a video


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However we need to see the etf flows as time goes on. Will more people invest with bitcoin on the dip or are people only buying bitcoin etfs when we print new highs. So far yesterday we were -150M or so. Wondering what todays session brought.
Capital flows in must slow down as it can not be maintain at a same high inflow rate or speed up more and more, non-stop.

Grayscale ETF is facing with massive outflow and within only 2 days, its outflow is about $1B. If they won't reduce their service fee soon, their ETF will have nothing to manage when customers will all exit.

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