How do you safely keep your recovery phrase written on paper?

[o_e_l_e_o]

I can't seem to fathom what could be wrong in storing or writing it on one of the pages of a book, it is just the same thing as writing it on a piece of paper, the only thing is that a single piece of paper can easily be flung around and damaged quicker than a book, that is why the owner has to keep either of them well, depending on what you choose to use.

If you aren't locking it in a safe, then it is significantly easier to hide a piece of paper than it is to hide a book. A book is pretty much limited to "hiding in plain sight" - on a book shelf with other books, in a drawer, etc., and simply hope no one opens it and looks in it. A piece of paper can be hidden in more places than you can count. Take a wooden shelf off the wall, drill a small hole in the back of it, roll up your paper and place it inside, and put the shelf back on the wall. The same can be done where two pieces of wood meet in any piece of wooden furniture - chairs, sofas, desks, cabinets, etc. You could even do the same on the top or bottom of a wooden door (with a small piece of tape to make sure it doesn't fall out). Unscrew a light fitting from the roof or an electrical socket from the wall and stuff a piece of paper in there (be sure not to cause a fire hazard). Between a picture and its frame. Inside pretty much anything that can be taken apart. Under carpets or floor boards. Hell, inside your walls if you really wanted. The possibilities are endless. It is entirely possible to hide a piece of paper somewhere in your house that a robber would not find it even if he had free reign to search for an entire week. Books on the other hand are a "classic" hiding place - everyone's seen movies or TV shows where people have cut out the inside pages of a book to create a secret storage compartment.

If a robber knows you have bitcoin and targets you, i do not think any method of security can save you completely, it can only mitigate the loss, and a book doesn't make it easier for them. They can beat the sh*t out of you till you surrender some coins to them, and the amount you surrender depends on how savvy and smart you have kept your coins prior to the event, but for the sake of your life, you have to surrender something to them.

Well, that's a separate issue which is dealt with by using hidden wallets, passphrases, and plausible deniability.

[1715079768]

1715079768

[decodx]

Would it be safe if I store it online but the file is encrypted and password protected?

Suppose someone gets hold of the file (which is very possible since it's stored online and you don't know who has access to it), do you think your password and encryption will be impenetrable? Would you be willing to stake the faith of your coins on it? What if that someone has an enormous amount of processing power and unlimited time at his disposal? If you think about it, he might be cracking your password right now without you even knowing it.

[hatshepsut93]

Your problem is that another person goes through your stuff and decided what to throw away without consulting with you. You should tell all people in your house to respect your boundaries and not do anything with your items without asking you.

And as for storing seed, you need two things - redundancy and a safe storage. Write down your seed on multiple pieces of paper and put them in different places. Use mediums like USB, CD, SD cards. Put them somewhere where people generally won't look.

[BIT-BENDER]

You have a choice on storing it into a draft message on your email that isn’t online on any device and you have the password to it, or you can write it down, well I am not the extrovert type of person so too many people don’t have access to my privacy especially my private area. Well it’s not advice sharing exert places your kept you seed phrase but I kept mine in sequence on a place only me can piece the puzzle together easily.

[o_e_l_e_o]

Use mediums like USB, CD, SD cards.

I don't like this advice, because most people do not know how to create and use these things safely and securely, i.e. created on a clean and airgapped computer, and only ever recovered on a clean and airgapped computer. Most people would create these back ups by writing their seed phrase in a text file, copying it to their external storage, and then deleting the text file, all on their usual every day computer while connected to the internet. I'm sure I don't need to point out to you all the things which could go wrong with such a method, but many newbies will be unaware of the risks involved. Conversely, everyone is able to write down some words on a piece of paper safely and securely. I agree redundancy is mandatory as I mentioned earlier in this thread, but you can achieve redundancy simply by making more than one paper back up and storing them in separate locations.

You have a choice on storing it into a draft message on your email that isn’t online on any device

Don't do this. Don't store anything valuable in an email account, ever. I'm not sure what you mean by storing it in an email account that isn't online, but if you are storing something valuable on an airgapped computer then you should encrypt it, not put it in some email software.

[nakamura12]

If no one in your neighborhood knows you know Bitcoin or they didn't know you have Bitcoin then I would say that it is safe to say that you won't be having problem with any attacker since know one knew that you are into crypto. Did you do something with your recovery phrase like laminating the piece of paper which will avoid getting ripped in half or into pieces plus storing it with your other important files. Storing it in a computer that is connected to the internet doesn't mean it can't be safe if you know how well you can protect it but what all people say about storing using that method is that there is a chance or a possibility that a person may be able to steal or make a copy of your recovery phrase whatever tricks they know just to steal.

[hatshepsut93]

Use mediums like USB, CD, SD cards.

I don't like this advice, because most people do not know how to create and use these things safely and securely, i.e. created on a clean and airgapped computer, and only ever recovered on a clean and airgapped computer. Most people would create these back ups by writing their seed phrase in a text file, copying it to their external storage, and then deleting the text file, all on their usual every day computer while connected to the internet. I'm sure I don't need to point out to you all the things which could go wrong with such a method, but many newbies will be unaware of the risks involved. Conversely, everyone is able to write down some words on a piece of paper safely and securely. I agree redundancy is mandatory as I mentioned earlier in this thread, but you can achieve redundancy simply by making more than one paper back up and storing them in separate locations.

Shouldn't all wallets be created on a clean and airgapped computer? And recovered too? For example, Electrum asks the user to enter their seed during a new wallet creation, so if a system is infected with keylogger, it could be immediately stolen. Or a malware can just steal an encrypted wallet file and keylog the password.

[Z-tight]

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I don't know how big the book you think i am talking about is going to be, hell there are books of just 15 pages-20 pages, those books are very small, but are less vulnerable to damage than a single piece of paper, i can keep books of these small number of pages in almost every place you just mentioned and it will damage way slower than a piece of paper, i can write my seed phrase in the middle of the book for example, it has an external cover and extra pages, and it will take more time for any agent of damage to get to the very page that contains the seed phrase.

But what about just a single piece of paper, it will aparently damage faster than my choice. 'In the wall', 'between woods', 'under the carpet', 'in the roof', etc, there are many things that can easily destroy a piece of paper in almost all these places you metioned, they are interesting choices but with cons too that you did not include, agents of damage such as light, humidity, water, insects, dust and so much more can damage that paper very fast. I do not know where you live, but rats are another thing to look out for where i stay, these tiny rats can be found in surprising places, all of these agents of damage will destroy a single piece of paper faster than a book, the type of book i mean is in the first part of my post, that is why i think it is safer o_e_l_e_o.

[CryptopreneurBrainboss]

You have a choice on storing it into a draft message on your email that isn’t online on any device and you have the password to it, or you can write it down, well I am not the extrovert type of person so too many people don’t have access to my privacy especially my private area. Well it’s not advice sharing exert places your kept you seed phrase but I kept mine in sequence on a place only me can piece the puzzle together easily.

You haven't been targeted that's why you think this is safe, haven't you read about one of the most recent metaverse hack that happened in the industry that the hackers targeted their victims, created a fake company interested in hiring them. Went through all the process of interviewing them making sure they'll click on the link sent to them as been acceptable for Job then finally sent them the malicious links so as soon as they access the link through their work computer, the hackers got access and the rest is history.

I don't think there's any other safer way of storing your recovery phrase then using an offline method and one of those is storing them on paper. Now making sure that paper isn't easily accessible is where the challenge is and if you leave with your parents or someone, you have to be extra careful making sure they don't easily have access to it.

[sheenshane]

I would like to know how others keep these secret phrases if the people in your house are not really knowledgeable in crypto. Would it be safe if I store it online but the file is encrypted and password protected?

You're already on the right path to storing your seed phrase, you did it right to have an extra copy so what are you afraid for.

I'd rather store in on a piece of paper than keep them online, that isn't advisable because anytime, it could be hackable since you're connected to the internet (unless you've air-gapped device that didn't connected to the internet) anytime.

I think it's on us who are responsible to keep our seed phrase safe in the first place, as you've said you put it into your computer table that shouldn't the right place to keep a valuable stuff.

[o_e_l_e_o]

Shouldn't all wallets be created on a clean and airgapped computer?

I wouldn't say all, because there are legitimate uses for creating and using mobile hot wallets for small amounts of funds. But yeah, anything holding serious amounts of money should be a hardware wallet or permanently airgapped. However, we both know full well that the majority of users don't do this. Hell, it's hard enough to get people to stop using absolutely trash wallets like blockchain.com or Trust wallet, let alone use an airgapped device.

-snip-

So you adapt your storage based on your location. If you are concerned about something like water, fire, or pests, then regardless of if your seed phrase is on paper or in a book then it is at risk. A piece of paper I can put inside a small fireproof and waterproof container and still hide far more easily than I can do so with a book.

[Pmalek]

Can't you simply talk to your mom and explain to her not to throw away stuff she finds in your room. If she doesn't understand what a recovery phrase is, she has surely heard of passwords. Tell her that it's important for your school/work, you will be in difficulty if it got lost, and advice her to be careful. Most importantly, clean after yourself.

A seed phrase stored under the mouse pad. Have a look around your room. There are certainly places and items where you could hide a piece of paper. Does your mom use a screwdriver to look inside various tools and equipment when cleaning? Probably not. Lifting the mouse pad is easy. Taking apart and dismantling X is harder.  

[Rikafip]

I didn't told her about it to avoid more argument because she wouldn't still understand what it is.

You don't have to explain her how Bitcoin works, just that piece of paper contains the sort of password that you need to access your bitcoin.

I would like to know how others keep these secret phrases if the people in your house are not really knowledgeable in crypto.

My parents know that I am into crypto but they don't have any knowledge about it and they never created wallet/sent bitcoin or anything similar. That didn't stop me though from storing a copy of my cold storage seed phrase in their house as I explained them its a fail-safe in case something happens to me, my wallet and/or other seed phrase copies.

[JoyMarsha]

We all know that a seed phrase is like a gateway to your assets. What do you do with it? Your guard and keep it safe to avoid outsiders' tempering with it. Misplacing it means you can't have access to your wallet ever again. Those who have lost their seed phrase due to carelessness are regretting till today. The seed phrase is not an ordinary word that can be crammed easily, that's why it is advised to write it down and keep it safe.
If you do understand and know what the seed phrase means, you won't only write your seed phrase on a piece of paper without keeping it safe from where it can not be tempered by anyone.

[acroman08]

-snip

you know you could use a notebook where you write important emails, passwords, pins, seed phrases, etc... instead of a piece of paper. the only reason why your seed phrase was almost thrown into the trash is that (you said it yourself) you left it on your computer table. something as important as a seed phrase should not be lying anywhere, it should be properly kept stored and hidden.

[Mpamaegbu]

Lol. First, start cleaning up your own room! If you're old enough to be on Bitcointalk (for 6 years already), you shouldn't need your mom to clean up after you.

You took the word out of my mouth. I don't even know how OP thought that would sound to those reading this post. Back to the question raised in the OP. For me I like to keep my secret phrases or passwords on a booklet containing other valuable articles and write-ups. Writing it on a booklet or two booklets as a way of duplicating them helps much. Copying passphrases/passwords online or storing them on the cloud or emails is a no-no for me. I like to keep it simple. Don't use a distinct booklet. Let it be on a booklet that won't trigger scrutiny of preying eyes. Then, sensibly leave the booklet at a place that won't make it look like you're hiding anything. After all, they say the best way to hide something is to expose it.

[m2017]

Back to the question raised in the OP. For me I like to keep my secret phrases or passwords on a booklet containing other valuable articles and write-ups. Writing it on a booklet or two booklets as a way of duplicating them helps much. Copying passphrases/passwords online or storing them on the cloud or emails is a no-no for me. I like to keep it simple. Don't use a distinct booklet. Let it be on a booklet that won't trigger scrutiny of preying eyes. Then, sensibly leave the booklet at a place that won't make it look like you're hiding anything. After all, they say the best way to hide something is to expose it.

Your train of thought prompted me to "spy" idea. Why not write seedphrase on the booklet (or other paper or not paper only) using ink that can only be seen under certain lighting conditions? For example, ultraviolet. This way, by chance, no one will be able to see what you wrote, because the text in the booklet will be colorless under normal lighting.

[Mpamaegbu]

~

For example, ultraviolet. This way, by chance, no one will be able to see what you wrote, because the text in the booklet will be colorless under normal lighting.

Don't bank on that method because you won't be the only one who knows or understands how to use an ultraviolet ray to decode stuff on papers. My idea of masking secret words/stuff is to make them look as ordinary as possible. It's the same method local men in Africa who carry huge cash around use. They appear unkempt and unassuming when ferrying cash across in a way that even robbers are likely to miss them on the road.

[isaac_clarke22]

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Anything online is a nope. You are entirely showing your secret phrases to whoever has access of that cloud storage even if it was encrypted or password protected. It is not worth risking all of your assets to that kind of matter.
Better have it engraved in a steel plate so that it won't be thrown away.
If you are going to use storage medias like hard drives, make sure to keep that hard drive R/W checked as I encountered some drives claiming to be in a specific size, but it was all just faked out.

[passwordnow]

Just tell your mom and anyone in the house that you're the one to clean your own room so that no one will touch those important things that you've got.
There are suggestions that I've read that making it like a dog tag but it's hard to find someone that will do it for me so, if you've got an idea on how to make it like in a steel plate then that's much better as part of your backups. Otherwise, just remind everyone that don't touch anything in your room. In my strategy, I've got backups everywhere and I've told people in the house that never touch those that I've pointed them out.