Clearing my trust list

[DaveF]

Thinking about it a bit here, I don't think I would ever clear it, but I might remove a lot. There are quite a few people who I have ~ and I would like to leave a lot of them that way.
I really don't think us doing anything will change the way things are done here. People have been abusing and complaining about it for years and nothing was done. I doubt that will change. The other side is, if we don't do anything we KNOW nothing will change.

Have to think about it.

-Dave

[1714662008]

1714662008

[Doan9269]

Please, you do not have to do that. It is just like saying you have some people that you trusted before but you do not trust them again, when you still trust them. If you trust anyone trustworthy and people that you think can not do harm on this forum, you shouldn't change that, it is helping in one way or the other, everything can not be 100% accurate or perfect.

Base on my believe i think he's doing the right thing here and his action does not exprrss any distrust on those he has ttusted before but the major point here is to sanitize all related affairs related to recent abuses on the trust system by some members, probably in doing this , it may attract the attention of theymos for an intervention because it is obvious that things were already going wrong and not as expected, dkbit98 suggested right.

[eddie13]

I don’t think people should be clearing their lists in some sort of protest.. If your confident in your choices on your lists I think you should keep them..

It’s what the system needs and the system is not that bad.. Their are just things to be settled now and then and that means “it’s working”..
Working about exactly as theymos intended with retaliations..

Also publicly announcing “I’m going to/did clear my list” or “I want to be blacklisted” just seems like attention seeking behavior..

I didn’t say shit to anyone when I cleared my list, and I didn’t do it in any sort of protest of the system..

I simply became conflicted about what I was doing with my list.. Conflicted about how much compromise I was willing to do to add, remove, or exclude anyone on my list..

Adding anyone at all to my list is a compromise because I don’t agree with anyone 100%, and was and am undecided about how much compromise in that I was and am willing to do..

Take LoyseV for example.. Should be a pretty easy choice to add to your inclusions list right?
Well, I greatly disagree with them including Vod and excluding OG, so there is the compromise..

I can’t think of anyone I 100% agree with and could add with no compromise..
Even my closest friend on here that I would trust with multiple full coins, my dox, and basically anything business related, I disagree with on many other things..
It’s a sign of great trust to me that we can disagree on many things and still trust each other very much..

It wasn’t about any sort of protest and was not attention seeking..

I don’t think that people should be clearing their lists, and I think I should make a list even though I don’t really want to..

Clearing your list or not having a list is like hoarding smerits..
It should be used, and I’ll admit that I am not right in not using mine..

[yahoo62278]

Thinking about it a bit here, I don't think I would ever clear it, but I might remove a lot. There are quite a few people who I have ~ and I would like to leave a lot of them that way.
I really don't think us doing anything will change the way things are done here. People have been abusing and complaining about it for years and nothing was done. I doubt that will change. The other side is, if we don't do anything we KNOW nothing will change.

Have to think about it.

-Dave

I kept all the people on my ~ list, I just removed the people whom I trust. I don't need the list to tell me who I trust. I've been around long enough to know who is a trustworthy person and who isn't.

Also publicly announcing “I’m going to/did clear my list” or “I want to be blacklisted” just seems like attention seeking behavior..

So many people like to look for behavior that is not normal and start a witch hunt for whatever reason. That's the only reason I have made it public.

[_BlackStar]

In the past, my trust list was empty and I didn't include anyone there because I didn't know who was worthy of inclusion. But it quickly swelled up once I realized who should be there and who shouldn't, but in the end we can decide for ourselves whether we still want to have that list or not.

I hope this is not a protest against the imperfection of the system, this should be decided wisely and purely without drama. The impact is always there on a system that may not be as perfect as one would like it to be, maybe it will be even greater if this becomes a trend for some other DT1. But of course no one forces us to have this particular trust list.

[16xypjnxlrew]

So many people like to look for behavior that is not normal and start a witch hunt for whatever reason. That's the only reason I have made it public.

As for people chasing witches, you're absolutely right. For example, I was accused of non-existent scam by users who use their authority

[NotATether]

So many people like to look for behavior that is not normal and start a witch hunt for whatever reason. That's the only reason I have made it public.

As for people chasing witches, you're absolutely right. For example, I was accused of non-existent scam by users who use their authority

Eh?

Support: suchmoon, NeuroticFish, DaveF, The Pharmacist, Betwrong, bitbollo, Lafu, ETFbitcoin, TheUltraElite, TheQuin, dkbit98, DireWolfM14, lovesmayfamilis, logfiles, FatFork, decodx, Poker Player, n0nce, Timelord2067, examplens, BitcoinGirl.Club, pawanjain, LogitechMouse, Fivestar4everMVP, Maasdamer, citb0in, Chahan
Opposition: 16xypjnxlrew

I don't know about you, but if I was flagged by 25 users at once, then I'd think I must've really screwed up somewhere.


To return to the point of discussion:

I don't think any changes to DT are coming in the forseeable future, so I would recommend LoyceV's advice of adding his "Create your own trust list" thread to News, or at least sticky it to Meta. At least more users will use it that way.

[LoyceV]

It's worse than that: if the people who use the Trust system correctly drop out, that leaves the ones who shouldn't be on DT1.

Which brings up another point. If users shouldn't be on DT1 then why the hell are they even eligible? Kinda makes no sense.

That's the problem with decentralisation: "the users" have to decide. Theymos doesn't want to be the guy who decides who can or can't be on DT1 (and I hope I'm not out of line here "speaking for theymos", this is solely based on the information I've seen so far). Kinda like how Trust isn't moderated I guess.

If I wanna call someone a bitch I will. No reason for me to hide, I want a person to know what I think about them.

You can do that by now, but for newer users who see red tags for basically anything, this is a scary place to call people out.

I'm still pondering whether I should follow Yahoo62278 and clear my list.  It's not a small decision to make IMO.

Question to the "list-clearers": do you add DefaultTrust? Because that's what happens when your list is empty. Or only add a user who hasn't left a single feedback (such as satoshi), so you'll see every profile as neutral?

Take LoyseV for example.. Should be a pretty easy choice to add to your inclusions list right?
Well, I greatly disagree with them including Vod and excluding OG, so there is the compromise..

We can argue about Vod, but indeed it's a compromise from my side. I agree with most of his tags, but not all. OG's exclusion I've explained here, in case you haven't seen it.

[JollyGood]

You have a valid point but adding some members to a trust list or excluding others should be a matter for the one adding, removing or excluding. On many occasions questions are asked about why those decisions were taken.

Unfortunately manipulation of the system has been an ongoing problem that was never addressed. It will continue until or unless some drastic changes are implemented.

In the past, my trust list was empty and I didn't include anyone there because I didn't know who was worthy of inclusion. But it quickly swelled up once I realized who should be there and who shouldn't, but in the end we can decide for ourselves whether we still want to have that list or not.

I hope this is not a protest against the imperfection of the system, this should be decided wisely and purely without drama. The impact is always there on a system that may not be as perfect as one would like it to be, maybe it will be even greater if this becomes a trend for some other DT1. But of course no one forces us to have this particular trust list.

[dragonvslinux]

After looking at how several cliques and trolls manipulate the system to suit their own agenda

<snip>
I propose these cliques and trolls are  BitcoinGirl.Club, NeuroticFish, tranthidung, LoyceV, Poker Player, dragonvslinux, DireWolfM14, dkbit98, The Pharmacist.

I hope I'm not included in JollyGood's list of cliques and trolls, serving my own agenda by manipulating the system.  For one thing, I don't have an agenda with respect to my trust list other than to do what I think is best for the forum.  I've communicated with JollyGood since I excluded him, and if I recall correctly I explained to him why I did it and that there were no hard feelings, just that I thought there were too many questionable feedbacks he'd left for others.  

And I certainly don't think I'm a troll, and hopefully JollyGood doesn't see me that way.  I haven't done any trolling lately, and if I had a list of targets of trolling he wouldn't be on it.

There have always been groups of members who tend to see things (like JollyGood's feedback-giving accuracy) the same way and are pretty vocal about it.  It was that way when Lauda and Vod were active, but it's not like there's any behind-the-scenes collusion AFAIK.  I'm definitely not included if there is.

I think you're missing BitcoinGirl.Club's point;  I interpret her post as speculation that JollyGood would accuse those listed as a clique, or trolls.  I don't think anyone has accused JollyGood (or you, for that matter) of trolling.

That's how I read it as well. Generally the idea that anyone criticises JollyGood is a troll and part of a clique intended to troll him, hence they are ignored and distrusted. It's the most effective way to try and make yourself immune from any criticism, just claim that anyone constructively critical of you is being malicious with an ulterior motive, hence untrustworthy, which is admittedly very "politician like" as you put it.

He knows, like any power hungry politician, he needs the help of the powerful to gain more power.  Anyone else who's critical of him gets ignored.  Like me, I'm a nobody so he thinks that maybe just maybe if he ignores my criticism of his trust abuses (like he's done for the last year) that I'll just go away.

[Timelord2067]

If the lemmings want to yell out "I told you so!" after they've already jumped off the cliff, just put them on ignore.

[JollyGood]

Several duplicitous members are following the Goebbels doctrine of propaganda "If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it". This is still correct several days after I made a similar post to the point. It is almost laughable looking at their desperation.

As mentioned before they are dropping words and sentences about me that are factually incorrect but persist in the hope of others joining the drama. By ignoring them it makes reading the threads a bit easier but having said that if they are quoted by others then their nonsense might catch my eye.

On the odd occasion I might have reversed the ignore to take a look here and there to see if they beginning to post sensibly before being unsurprised and simply ignoring them again but: I already have put several of the lemmings and more on ignore..  

If the lemmings want to yell out "I told you so!" after they've already jumped off the cliff, just put them on ignore.

[16xypjnxlrew]

Eh?

I don't know about you, but if I was flagged by 25 users at once, then I'd think I must've really screwed up somewhere.

What I'm talking about, these 27 users colluded to accuse me of non-existent scam. At the same time, the main initiator of this asks the victims to forgive the scammer who robbed many users, read here - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5407043.msg60687209#msg60687209

[DireWolfM14]

Several duplicitous members are following the Goebbels doctrine of propaganda "If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it". This is still correct several days after I made a similar post to the point. It is almost laughable looking at their desperation.

Lol, you are a laughable joke of a troll.  I have to hand it to you, you've employed the tactics of the most corrupt politicians quite predictably.  Once exposed and desperate you accuse your adversaries of the very things of which you are guilty.

The Jack Booted Thug accuses me of being a Nazi and propagandist, entirely missing the irony of the claim!  Absolutely brilliant.  You can ignore me all you want, but that won't stop me from exposing your hypocrisy.  You're not my target audience.  You've already exposed yourself as a thin-skinned coward who can't engage in a rational debate.  Run and hide, bitch.

But before I go, I'll give you some advice:  Instead of secretly wishing ChipMixer would pull an exit scam so you can target their signature participants with your next red-tag frenzy, you better stick the reputation and gambling boards.  There you can harass and intimidate newbies with relative impunity.  But, if you continue to venture into big-boy topics, you'll have your ass handed to you in short order.

Good Luck, jigglyboobs.

[dkbit98]

Lol, you are a laughable joke of a troll.  I have to hand it to you, you've employed the tactics of the most corrupt politicians quite predictably.  Once exposed and desperate you accuse your adversaries of the very things of which you are guilty.

Have you ever checked some of his ''gambling'' self-moderated topics  
If you wanna have some fun you should do it, I am sure they are (not) full of spam.

You've already exposed yourself as a thin-skinned coward who can't engage in a rational debate.  Run and hide, bitch.

I don't think he even have a skin or a spine, so he is unique kind of invertebrate living in his bubble.
Someone should make a documentary about him and make him celebrity.
Theymos should give special kind of clown hat badge for members like him.

Instead of secretly wishing ChipMixer would pull an exit scam

Maybe he just wants to get some attention and get in CM campaign.

[dragonvslinux]

^^ You guys should really stop trolling, you know who you are. You sound like the Propaganda Minister for Hitler's Third Reich, as JG has already pointed out and rightly so. Next you'll be assembling gas chambers and sending Jews to concentration camps if you're not careful. At least stick to the relevant topics if you are going to continue your campaign of propaganda for your own personal gain. Stupid lemmings 

[16xypjnxlrew]

^^ You guys should really stop trolling, you know who you are. You sound like the Propaganda Minister for Hitler's Third Reich, as JG has already pointed out and rightly so. Next you'll be assembling gas chambers and sending Jews to concentration camps if you're not careful. At least stick to the relevant topics if you are going to continue your campaign of propaganda for your own personal gain. Stupid lemmings 

You are absolutely right about their propaganda. They have said so many times that I have committed a scam that anyone on the forum immediately agrees with them without delving into a single post. If they have authority, then automatically they are right, especially when there are many of them and they are in cahoots

[n0nce]

Several duplicitous members are following the Goebbels doctrine of propaganda "If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it". This is still correct several days after I made a similar post to the point. It is almost laughable looking at their desperation.

Lol, you are a laughable joke of a troll.  I have to hand it to you, you've employed the tactics of the most corrupt politicians quite predictably.  Once exposed and desperate you accuse your adversaries of the very things of which you are guilty.
[...]
You've already exposed yourself as a thin-skinned coward who can't engage in a rational debate.  Run and hide, bitch.

Apparently, a Newbie spam account even managed to blackmail JollyGood to remove their support on the aforementioned flag. I only bring this up because 16x... brought up the topic a few posts up themselves.

Quote for reference.

I never said that it's still open, I said the original post on there still states that same exchange rate, which is true.

Also, again, be aware that the trust system is not made to accuse someone of lying, but to label someone as a potential scammer. Someone could lie all day every day and I'd have no reason to give them red trust.

[...]
I hope you wake up from a long sleep and make the right decision, like JollyGood did. ^{[emphasis mine]}

Indeed does not seem like the thick skin typically seen on Bitcointalk.
I have no idea about these characters and no history whatsoever with them, it just fit the topic. I'm not interested in any drama though; that's just a waste of time in my book.

^^ You guys should really stop trolling, you know who you are. You sound like the Propaganda Minister for Hitler's Third Reich, as JG has already pointed out and rightly so. Next you'll be assembling gas chambers and sending Jews to concentration camps if you're not careful. At least stick to the relevant topics if you are going to continue your campaign of propaganda for your own personal gain. Stupid lemmings 

You are absolutely right about their propaganda. They have said so many times that I have committed a scam that anyone on the forum immediately agrees with them without delving into a single post. If they have authority, then automatically they are right, especially when there are many of them and they are in cahoots

Please excuse my language; but: Nobody here has authority. No-one. Stop talking out of your ass and god-damn stop the crying, I can't hear it anymore. Are you a child or just extremely dumb?

[16xypjnxlrew]

Apparently, a Newbie spam account even managed to blackmail JollyGood to remove their support on the aforementioned flag. I only bring this up because 16x... brought up the topic a few posts up themselves.

Do you have evidence of JollyGood being blackmailed? I didn't write to him, just one day checking who supported the warning, I saw that he removed support for this accusation of a non-existent scam

[yahoo62278]

Let's keep the posts on topic guys. This is a thread about trust lists, not 1 about Jollygood or this 16x guy. I don't mind a little off topic when diving into trusting a certain user, but whining about getting tagged is another subject.