Suggestion to disable Newbies from receiving PMs

[un_rank]

While reading through the forum, I found this thread^[1] created by LoyceV on how best to protect newbies, after a new member was scammed by a user who sent them a private message.

I got thinking that if newbie ranked members are by default restricted from sending private messages, they should also be protected from receiving them, giving that new members are more vulnerable to getting scammed.

My suggestion: users below a Total time logged in of 1 day or 12 hours should be automatically disabled from receiving PMs. Or it could be till Jr. member rank is achieved.

LoyceV made mention of this, and an argument why it might not work out efficiently:

How can we prevent this?
...
What would work? Disable receiving PMs? If they can't PM, they'll post their email address so that doesn't help.
More warnings for new users? A warning PM for every few first posts they make?

How I see it, if someone makes a public request for a new member to contact them off the forum or disable their no PM restriction, other members can spot that and call it out before damage is done.
This is why I created a new thread, as that one is not precisely about this suggestion.

Theymos also replied:

Honestly, I think that someone that naïve can't be protected. Even if every inch of the page had been full of warnings, he still might've fallen for it, since he wasn't even thinking about the possibility of being given evil instructions. The scammer was a Jr Member, not some Legendary.

People like him (ie. the majority of the world population) are why we'll someday want an optional sidechain or something on top of Bitcoin which has reversible transactions (via some sort of automatic 2-of-3 escrow which expires after a while, maybe).
He should have the police contact me and I'll give them the scammer's IP logs.

If new users are restricted from sending Pms to those that have not allowed them to, they should not be getting either. New users need more protection than those with more experience. It may not protect every new member, but could save some from falling for avoidable scams.
It can also protect newbie ranked users from getting harmful links through PM.
I will appreciate comments and counter suggestions, or other ways new members can be protected.

[1] How can we protect Newbies from getting scammed?


- Jay -

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[Welsh]

I still like the idea of running a newly registered user through a number of steps before completing registration, and that's when we can ask a user how to setup their account, rather than forcing these sort of options on them. For example, in this case we could ask them whether or not they want to accept personal messages by default or not, and go into the reasons why it might be useful for them to disable.

This could be expanding with the welcome message that has been discussed, and a few other things like teaching them the basics about all the custom features we have implemented on the forum. However, I imagine that would take a bit of effort to get implemented correctly, but I'd much rather a tutorial if you will, which allows them to make the decisions themselves, without forcing them.

There's also the other option where its included in your profile where you can disable or enable things, but without a introduction to that, most users won't know of it, let alone use it.

[NeuroticFish]

There's also the other option where its included in your profile where you can disable or enable things, but without a introduction to that, most users won't know of it, let alone use it.

Exactly this is my fear: since they have no idea they can re-enable that, the newbies will just feel restricted / with their hands tied.

And together with the other restrictions a newbie also has, plus the possible evil fee some are seeing, it can be a disappointing experience for the genuine newbies on this forum. And a disappointing experience can make them give up and go away.

So the first step is an explanatory welcome message, as Welsh said; then the extra restrictions can also be implemented. But in this order.

[aysg76]

And together with the other restrictions a newbie also has, plus the possible evil fee some are seeing, it can be a disappointing experience for the genuine newbies on this forum. And a disappointing experience can make them give up and go away.

Yeah when they make an account on the forum they could be in the circle of evil fees which they need to pay in order to get themselves registered and might be the case many decide not to have an account on the forum.A newbie with no prior link to the forum would also not be able to get himself familiar with LoyceV whitelist service but many have benefited from it but the complete newbies won't be able to take advantage of it if they are having the evil fees message before registration.

So the first step is an explanatory welcome message, as Welsh said; then the extra restrictions can also be implemented. But in this order.

For sure a welcome message displaying the necessary information would help them and some threads link can also be embedded in it to guide them through forum usage and giving them forum estimate to some extent.

I still like the idea of running a newly registered user through a number of steps before completing registration, and that's when we can ask a user how to setup their account, rather than forcing these sort of options on them. For example, in this case we could ask them whether or not they want to accept personal messages by default or not, and go into the reasons why it might be useful for them to disable.

That would be better if we seek permission for them instead of putting up a complete restrictions on them as some members are familiar with the system and want to interact with the members through PM so they could do it but if there is prior setup of asking them then it would be suitable and they have the option of enable also but as you said they need to be guided through it and without they knowing about the custom features it would be not useful for them.

There are some threads helping newbie but as a newbie we can't expect from them to explore the forum completely for such threads and forum functionality as it will take time for them to understand it and protect themselves from these scams although there are some phising warning added to the forum but still they need to be familiar with it.Helping them with such a setup while registation process is much better and making them choose.

[BitcoinGirl.Club]

Newbie get proxy ban
They face captcha
They have 360 seconds time limit between making posts
They can not post image
They can not wear avatar
They can not wear signature
They can not do many things.
We are making the forum very much newbie unfriendly. Do we not need any new bitcoin user to join us anymore? There are moderators who have their job to keep the spam clear. Shall we not let them do their work?

[CryptoHeadlineNews]

Newbie get proxy ban
They face captcha
They have 360 seconds time limit between making posts
They can not post image
They can not wear avatar
They can not wear signature
They can not do many things.
We are making the forum very much newbie unfriendly. Do we not need any new bitcoin user to join us anymore? There are moderators who have their job to keep the spam clear. Shall we not let them do their work?

I will likely say I love the way the forum currently is, by preventing them from accessing most of these features, because it tends to clean the forum and clear if off spam, because we shouldn't put much work on our moderators, those guys are actually a good job, and they don't deserve more stress. So I think the best solution to this now will be that if a Newbie rank is prevented from sending P.M, then such rank should also be prevented from receiving P.M, because I'm sure the P.M feature was meant for private communication, and for communication to be effective it has to be two-sided, so if it can't be two-sided, then it's best if it's disabled till such person reaches the required rank

[LoyceV]

Newbie get proxy ban
They face captcha
They have 360 seconds time limit between making posts
They can not post image
They can not wear avatar
They can not wear signature
They can not do many things.

This comes to mind:

Limiting newbie participation is very harmful for a community. Newbie jail will never return: I consider the newbie-jail period to have been extremely damaging to the forum. When barriers to participation are too high, then the best people often just won't go to the trouble of joining, and the people who are willing to jump through the hoops are often people who aren't good for the community: people with nothing better to do, scammers, get-rick-quickers, etc. Having a permanent newbie jail policy would improve things a lot in the short-term, but would end up being a fatal poison to the community.

[Yawa2020]

Newbie get proxy ban
They face captcha
They have 360 seconds time limit between making posts
They can not post image
They can not wear avatar
They can not wear signature
They can not do many things.
We are making the forum very much newbie unfriendly. Do we not need any new bitcoin user to join us anymore? There are moderators who have their job to keep the spam clear. Shall we not let them do their work?

Exactly my thoughts! Although the OP aim is to protect the newbies from being scam or fall to some tricks, but in my opinion it shouldn't be at their detriment and deprive them of certain rights.
We should put into consideration that most of the newbies focus more on bounties and in one way or the other might need to pm their bounty managers who doesn't allow to be contacted on TG or any other media aside Forum. The idea of totally refrain newbies from pm is more like bondage than protection as the poster proclaim.

[BitcoinGirl.Club]

This comes to mind:

Limiting newbie participation is very harmful for a community. Newbie jail will never return: I consider the newbie-jail period to have been extremely damaging to the forum. When barriers to participation are too high, then the best people often just won't go to the trouble of joining, and the people who are willing to jump through the hoops are often people who aren't good for the community: people with nothing better to do, scammers, get-rick-quickers, etc. Having a permanent newbie jail policy would improve things a lot in the short-term, but would end up being a fatal poison to the community.

Let's mark out something else too.
Who is going to pay evil fees. The one who really needs to do something in the forum except a regular use. Seeing many alt accounts (at least it feels they are they way they easily understand how trust system works or knows other forum users) these days gives me a feeling that all these good looking alt accounts are actually accounts from the users who were spamming the hell but realized the accounts are too old to give some efforts then why not make a fresh start. They give up the other account and start fres with the new account. They know they can earn some money from the signature. Not saying earning from signature is bad but when they have malicious intention they know how to be smart.

The users who are completely new but had genuine intention to ask a bitcoin related question, can not bother to pay the evil fees to pay. Even if they pay, when they will see there are so many other restrictions, they will leave it out of frustration.

[uchegod-21]

I still like the idea of running a newly registered user through a number of steps before completing registration, and that's when we can ask a user how to setup their account, rather than forcing these sort of options on them. For example, in this case we could ask them whether or not they want to accept personal messages by default or not, and go into the reasons why it might be useful for them to disable.

Very nice if it will be implemented.

I will suggest another possible way of handling this situation.

How about if newbies will recieve a warning at the top of every new message they receive. Warning like
Warning:
Scam is not moderated in this forum, be careful dealing with this pm you recived, it could be a scammer. We suggest that you understand how things work here before dealing with people via pm, but if you are confident of dealing with this user, you may continue with the conversation.
After such warning if the newbie is scammed, he should be blamed instead.

However, nowadays newbies or I can say newbie accounts are the ones that are even trying to scam.

[The Sceptical Chymist]

I still like the idea of running a newly registered user through a number of steps before completing registration, and that's when we can ask a user how to setup their account, rather than forcing these sort of options on them.

I fully support that option rather than having PMs blocked by default for newbies--and the reason I say that is because I've often seen brand new accounts created in order to ask for specific information that's not spammy or related to buying/selling things.  Since new accounts are already restricted as far as how often they can post, I think it's important for them to be able to receive PMs if they want to.

Aside from that, new accounts don't necessarily make themselves targets of scams as far as I know.  I'm not sure if I've even seen a case where a newcomer has reported that they've received a PM that's resulted (or could have resulted) in a scam.  Sure, it's a possibility, but I'm not sure it's a problem that needs to be obviated by imposing more restrictions on new accounts.

[un_rank]

I appreciate the suggestions from everyone.
My suggestion, was not to act as a restriction, just a first line policy to protect newbies.
@Welsh opinion about a welcome message is very intentional and more detailed than my crude suggestion.

- Jay -