5,000 BTC from Satoshi-Era Wallet Moved

[o_e_l_e_o]

Whoever moved these ~5000 BTC took these dust transactions or small value transactions too. Is this ok?

The whole point of a dust attack is that the attacker hopes that people will spend/consolidate dust outputs from two or more different addresses together in the same transaction, thereby providing a high degree of certainty that those two addresses are linked together and owned by the same person or entity. Since the transaction you linked spends many dust outputs all from the same address, then there is no privacy leak here and the attack gains no knowledge about any other addresses this person/entity owns.

You can't do anything you want "without any input or interference from third parties" not in the real world, only in your imaginary bitcoin land maybe.

If the user in question here wanted to move $100 million in fiat from one bank account to another, how much paperwork do you think they would need to fill in for their bank? How many people would they need to speak to and get permission from first, both at their bank and the receiving bank? How many third parties would need to sign off on it first? Now consider the same situation in paperwork. How much paperwork did this person have to complete before making this bitcoin transaction? Exactly zero. And how many third parties did they need to speak to and get permission from first? Exactly zero.

[franky1]

first TX was in 2013

not satoshi era
this could be one of the MTgox batches as its more of mtgox era not satoshi era

nevertheless kids, its good to understand that there's always people hodling bitcoin waiting for you to forget they have a huge stash they want to unload onto the market and they won't necessarily care if that makes your bitcoin become worth less in price when they do that. they're not using bitcoin to buy something or anything.

i have a hoard from the 2012 era. and the 2013 era. (and other era after that)
oh and i buy real life stuff with bitcoin.
food, furnishings, tools, gadgets, travel, transport.
i have no desires to just exit in a large mass market sell off.. thats just shooting self in the foot

also 5k coins is not a big deal in the scope of millions in volume. its a blip on the scale. a small wiggle in the scope of market prices


though i am a realist and dont fear mentioning bitcoin flaws. i still use and prefer bitcoin more than fiat. for many reasons. i dont need to spout out exaggerations of bitcoin utopia(over-promising/lying by exaggeration). i do however also avoid exaggerating pretending bitcoin is dead/not fit.

bitcoin is functional with a mass of opportunity and utility and purpose. even if it is currently a lil stifled by some dev politics games currently

its open fair minded realist thoughts of both good and bad. so that people have the whole information.
...
i dont see bitcoin as a "price"... the market "price" is meaningless to me. this is not the same as not caring. its just that the whims of daily price activity are not worth crying about.
EG when the PRICE dips. thats not a warning to start crying. thats a opportunity to buy at a discount of future price.
when the price moves by 5%. i dont care if its going up or down.
i have both fiat and bitcoin.
a 5% up, is a oppertunity to sell a chunk to increase fiat reserves for later buys
a 5% down, is a oppertunity to buy a chunk to increase btc reserves for later sells

i personally away from an exchange, use and prefer to use bitcoin for daily activities. but inside an exchange, ..market price movements of both up and down are not reasons to cry or be upset. they are just opportunities to increase reserves of one side or the other. its not about trying to pump a price
its not about trying to dump the price

[casinotester0001]

Has someone an explanation for these several 47.98469209 BTC in the output of the 5000 BTC? Check the transaction: https://explorer.viawallet.com/btc/tx/0219d5bd944889a670687ffdf75e2d265b6066a355118eedd860a6aeb6f2eb32

[franky1]

Has someone an explanation for these several 47.98469209 BTC in the output of the 5000 BTC? Check the transaction: https://explorer.viawallet.com/btc/tx/0219d5bd944889a670687ffdf75e2d265b6066a355118eedd860a6aeb6f2eb32

using common sense.

if i was a holder of 5000coin(more then this in other stashes i own for many reasons)
lets say i was also a mining pool and/or exchange (lets say i was houbi)
(im not houbi, im using hypothetical common sense narrative)


i hoard coin over X years from profits of many reasons. trading/exchange, investing/mining but recently due to some reason its time to pay out some of the mining rewards of old users/investors wanting to take their shares/splits
of investment i was custodian of for a long time

so i grab a stash i have (just happen to be a 2013 stash)
i break it up into allotments of blockrewards minus fee's (47.9826209) from an old excel sheet of old blocksolves i logged and kept for accounting reasons
for the numerous blocks that my pool solved ages ago

i then split them coins up to pay out to mining owners that got shares in my pools activity

also another hypothetical.
they dont want to move around amounts of more then $100k to users/people

that said.
rather then all of the speculation that 5000btc is being thrown into the market as 1 lump to tank othe price (never happened) its actually appears to be a movement from cold to hotwallet. and then split apart to give payouts for many allotments going different places

[larry_vw_1955]

If the user in question here wanted to move $100 million in fiat from one bank account to another, how much paperwork do you think they would need to fill in for their bank? How many people would they need to speak to and get permission from first, both at their bank and the receiving bank? How many third parties would need to sign off on it first?

Ever heard of a cashiers check? https://www.investopedia.com/best-ways-to-get-a-cashier-s-check-4590106

That's all they would need to do. Bring ID to the bank and pay the cashiers check fee. Everything has a fee for sending, even bitcoin.

Now consider the same situation in paperwork. How much paperwork did this person have to complete before making this bitcoin transaction? Exactly zero. And how many third parties did they need to speak to and get permission from first? Exactly zero.

Which is why people use bitcoin for illegal purposes so that they can skirt the law. Not everyone uses bitcoin for illegal reasons though but that's one of the arguments against bitcoin and it's so called anonymity. In a sense it is understandable because it decreases frictions associated with things like money laundering, terrorism etc. On the other hand, politicians like to use those phrases to take away peoples' freedoms.

i have a hoard from the 2012 era. and the 2013 era. (and other era after that)

cool!

oh and i buy real life stuff with bitcoin.
food, furnishings, tools, gadgets, travel, transport.

that's even more cool. i wish i could point to a use that i have like that and say "bitcoin make this thing easier and less costly to buy using it than it does with fiat." i'm not there yet but maybe oneday.

i have no desires to just exit in a large mass market sell off.. thats just shooting self in the foot

if someone values their bitcoin, they'll probably always keep at least a small stash of it. just like they would if they were a precious metals afficionado.

also 5k coins is not a big deal in the scope of millions in volume. its a blip on the scale. a small wiggle in the scope of market prices

the 24 hour volume is about 1.8 million btc i looked it up. kind of suprised it is that large. its like 10% of the bitcoin supply changed hands every 24 hours.

[franky1]

If the user in question here wanted to move $100 million in fiat from one bank account to another, how much paperwork do you think they would need to fill in for their bank? How many people would they need to speak to and get permission from first, both at their bank and the receiving bank? How many third parties would need to sign off on it first?

Ever heard of a cashiers check? https://www.investopedia.com/best-ways-to-get-a-cashier-s-check-4590106

That's all they would need to do. Bring ID to the bank and pay the cashiers check fee. Everything has a fee for sending, even bitcoin.

if i wanted to move my hoard from one address to another... none of that.
i dont even have to put my shoes on..

..let alone not need to get value transferred from
digital currency->paper currency(check)->digital currency
which generates CTR and requires ID and yep takes 2 days to clear
(only amounts under $5.5k are same day no ID depending on bank)

you will find cashiers checks are actually more variable/complicated

[yhiaali3]

It is possible that this moved bitcoin is the bitcoin that was stolen from the exchange several years ago and has been frozen until this time, it is also possible that this wallet is the wallet of Satoshi or maybe one of the unknown people who bought bitcoin in the early days long ago, there are several hypotheses And no one can know exactly, this is what makes Bitcoin so special, maintaining privacy with transparency.

[larry_vw_1955]

if i wanted to move my hoard from one address to another... none of that.
i dont even have to put my shoes on..

well but we dont know who the owner of the other address is for sure though so it may not be just sending it to himself. it may be sending it to someone else.

..let alone not need to get value transferred from
digital currency->paper currency(check)->digital currency
which generates CTR and requires ID and yep takes 2 days to clear
(only amounts under $5.5k are same day no ID depending on bank)

you will find cashiers checks are actually more variable/complicated

well yeah i agree if you have your money in bitcoin then you would want to pay in bitcoin rather than convert it into fiat and then pay. but if the person you're paying wants fiat then you don't have a choice. and if they want fiat then at some endpoint, someone is going to be showing an ID. want fiat? show an ID.

[o_e_l_e_o]

That's all they would need to do. Bring ID to the bank and pay the cashiers check fee. Everything has a fee for sending, even bitcoin.

So I have to go to the bank, prove who I am, have my ID checked, have the cashier produce a check, have it signed, have it countersigned, send it to the other person, they have to take it to their bank, have it checked by their bank, arrange with yet more third parties to actually transfer the funds, the list goes on. That's a lot of third parties who need to agree to the process, any one of which could decide to deny my request.

With bitcoin, I make a transaction, I sign it, I broadcast it. Done. There is no one to deny me anything.

well but we dont know who the owner of the other address is for sure though so it may not be just sending it to himself. it may be sending it to someone else.

Exactly! The beauty of bitcoin. Can't do that with a bank.

want fiat? show an ID.

Or just trade peer to peer.

[BlackHatCoiner]

Not everyone uses bitcoin for illegal reasons though but that's one of the arguments against bitcoin and it's so called anonymity.

Nearly everyone's using bitcoin is a suspect, according to FATF. According to this paper, if you use anonymous communication (Tor or VPN), or if your IP isn't whitelisted, or if you gamble, or if you try to withdraw your money off the exchange, or use more than one cryptocurrency, or just do self-custody; in all these cases, you're a red flag according to anti-money laundering fantastic nonsense.

In other words: If you use bitcoin, you're guilty until proven innocent.

[franky1]

..let alone not need to get value transferred from
digital currency->paper currency(check)->digital currency
which generates CTR and requires ID and yep takes 2 days to clear
(only amounts under $5.5k are same day no ID depending on bank)

you will find cashiers checks are actually more variable/complicated

well yeah i agree if you have your money in bitcoin then you would want to pay in bitcoin rather than convert it into fiat and then pay. but if the person you're paying wants fiat then you don't have a choice. and if they want fiat then at some endpoint, someone is going to be showing an ID. want fiat? show an ID.

you do have a choice.
like if you know your countries fiat laws have a policy that amounts of $100k defacto cause a CTR report to be sent where its a top tax office threshold that would trigger a full on deep investigation with the top IRS team.
then you would split funds into sub $100k amounts. to not be watched by the higher up teams of investigators

EG avoid:
you cashing out 5000btc $100m (causing massive investigation on you) where you have to supply lots of info..
you then splitting $100m fiat into lots of over $100k amounts to pay to customers

instead. inside bitcoin
you split the amounts into sub $100k amounts
move then to separate addressses. and have the customers shuffle things about in bitcoin and then exit via different exits themselves. so they dont trigger CTR reports on the customers.

so when paying out to different people this year you are only paying out sub $100k amounts to people thus not generate dozens of CTR reports. against you.
because its then those users who are doing the exits of under $100k individually. instead of you as a lump sum or fiat splits to then pay people

.. and if users are smart. they can declare those amounts as funds for [insert tax loophole] so they pay no tax on those amounts..

something you cannot do if you just exited with $100m in one lump and then done shuffling in the fiat arena to pay out to people

[DeathAngel]

As others have said, it’s really not that unusual. It’s also not Satoshi era, I’m seeing 2013 as the first transactions. Lots of early adopters still around with fat stacks of bitcoin. Admittedly that is a really big stack but these people do walk amongst us

[coolcoinz]

5000 BTC from Satoshi-Era Wallet Moved, maybe 3 More Wallets Wait to Send Bitcoin as they have the same origin ~21000 BTC.

It's strange that they didn't have any movement when BTC was over 50k... 

No it's not strange at all. You move your coins when you move your coins. A few reasons why people move coins are:
Wallet software or hardware change
Death. Coins were recovered by family and moved.
If it's a Mt.Gox wallet these are being redistributed this year.
We could go on and come up with a few more but what's the point? As it was said earlier in the thread moving doesn't mean selling.

[casinotester0001]

Addresses and money like this move all the time, sometimes people are looking around for them and see them. Many times they do not.
The OP seems to be digging into and poking around old addresses for some reason. I think everyone who gets into BTC does that at some point in time.

6 months ago discovered the chapter "lost/damaged wallets/passwords/keys" in the Bitcoin world. Since then looking for stories, wallets, transactions that are connected with such addresses. So found also this address. But so far no clues whether it's a recovered wallet. I must say there are so many fantastic stories (but also lot of fake wallets, damaged keys). I hope that people who lost their keys can be able to get their coins one day.

One of the best stories is a guy who created lots of addresses, printed the screen output for each wallet on paper and stored them years ago. Then transferred over a long period BTC from exchanges to these addresses (The sum is huge). But he thought that a message plus the signature of this message can be used as private key and all of his prints on paper show exactly this. Instead of printing the WIFs, he made a cold wallet storage on paper of the signatures as he never saw a WIF private key before and thought that these are used to create signatures with the Bitcoin GUI. The good part of the story is: one day he will be able to calculate the private keys as each print shows several windows where also the txt window is visible with parts of the WIF. What I want to say: 'Your Keys, Your Coins' but understand exactly what private keys are, how they work and test it with small amounts (to an address and from that address to a new address) before you do it with large ones.

Maybe this 5000 BTC account was such a case, the owner was able to 'reconstruct' or 'calculate' his lost/destroyed private key.

[BitcoinADAB]

5000 BTC from Satoshi-Era Wallet Moved, maybe 3 More Wallets Wait to Send Bitcoin as they have the same origin ~21000 BTC.

What for accounts are these?

Looks like they came from the Mt Gox breach that occurred in 2011.

https://news.bitcoin.com/whale-spends-10000-btc-worth-203m-bitcoins-stem-from-infamous-2011-mt-gox-hack/

[Quidat]

5000 BTC from Satoshi-Era Wallet Moved, maybe 3 More Wallets Wait to Send Bitcoin as they have the same origin ~21000 BTC.

It's strange that they didn't have any movement when BTC was over 50k...  

No it's not strange at all. You move your coins when you move your coins. A few reasons why people move coins are:
Wallet software or hardware change
Death. Coins were recovered by family and moved.
If it's a Mt.Gox wallet these are being redistributed this year.
We could go on and come up with a few more but what's the point? As it was said earlier in the thread moving doesn't mean selling.

People are just too reactive when it comes to these kind of aspect which it isnt really out business on whether those coins would be moved or not by its owners.  
Its true that there are lots of factors which could really be the reason on why these coins been moved out and its true and precise that being moved doesnt
automatically means that it would be sell out but i cant blame out people not to have these kind of things in mind considering on how long those coins been holded up
and now it did make out some movement then its maybe the right time to get some profits.

[darkangel11]

I don't get why people see old coins moving as frightening or worrying. It's great that these coins aren't lost, that's 1. 2, if that person sells, the coins will get redistributed among many new users so there won't be a whale to worry about in future but maybe some new bitcoiners will buy them at low price at or near the cycle bottom.
It's normal that coins change hands. Stop whining.

[larry_vw_1955]

So I have to go to the bank, prove who I am, have my ID checked, have the cashier produce a check, have it signed, have it countersigned, send it to the other person, they have to take it to their bank, have it checked by their bank, arrange with yet more third parties to actually transfer the funds, the list goes on. That's a lot of third parties who need to agree to the process, any one of which could decide to deny my request.

That's how it is supposed to be apparently. The government makes it hard to transfer larger amounts. And you're at the mercy of banks.

With bitcoin, I make a transaction, I sign it, I broadcast it. Done. There is no one to deny me anything.

Enjoy it while it lasts because if the government (USA government) ever gets their grubby hands on bitcoin, they'll try and introduce controls over how much btc you can send at one time. And don't try and "structure" your transactions because that will be against the law too.

Or just trade peer to peer.

And keep your fiat under a mattress. Because you wouldn't want the government knowing you cashed out some bitcoin. not if it was $100 million. Then pay for things with cash. Alot of things.

then you would split funds into sub $100k amounts. to not be watched by the higher up teams of investigators

well i get what you're saying franky but i think all of what you discussed concerning splitting up funds into smaller sub accounts is what the US government calls "structuring". whether you do it using bitcoin or with fiat, i'm sure the irs would still consider it a crime. i should say POTENTIAL crime. one they need to investigate, etc.

[BlackHatCoiner]

Enjoy it while it lasts because if the government (USA government) ever gets their grubby hands on bitcoin, they'll try and introduce controls over how much btc you can send at one time.

The US government, just like any government, doesn't control bitcoin. Users do. In the same way they don't control peer-to-peer communication, file sharing-- encryption in general. Not only do they can't prevent you from broadcasting a transaction, but they can't even be sure who's making that very transaction. That's the beauty of transparency. You can verify that the transaction is settled without knowing who's sending to who.

[larry_vw_1955]

Enjoy it while it lasts because if the government (USA government) ever gets their grubby hands on bitcoin, they'll try and introduce controls over how much btc you can send at one time.

The US government, just like any government, doesn't control bitcoin.

They don't have to be able to control bitcoin. All they have to do is make laws regarding its use.

Just as an example:

https://www.coindesk.com/policy/2022/08/08/crypto-mixing-service-tornado-cash-blacklisted-by-us-treasury/

The Office of Foreign Assets Control (OFAC), a watchdog agency tasked with preventing sanctions violations, on Monday added Tornado Cash to its Specially Designated Nationals list, a running tally of blacklisted people, entities and cryptocurrency addresses. As a result, all U.S. persons and entities are prohibited from interacting with Tornado Cash or any of the Ethereum wallet addresses tied to the protocol. Those who do may face criminal penalties.

Users do. In the same way they don't control peer-to-peer communication, file sharing-- encryption in general. Not only do they can't prevent you from broadcasting a transaction, but they can't even be sure who's making that very transaction. That's the beauty of transparency. You can verify that the transaction is settled without knowing who's sending to who.

The OFAC could just as easily come out and say US persons and entities are prohibited from using bitcoin. What you gonna do then? Become a law breaker? Bitcoin won't save you if you get caught using bitcoin then. About the only thing you could do then is renounce your US citizenship and move to another country. Or just stop using bitcoin. Most people would do that.


In Monday’s action OFAC sanctioned Tornado Cash’s donation address, proxy address, a Gitcoin grants address and several others, including a few USDC addresses. More than 40 addresses in total were put on the sanctions list.
Circle blacklisted the sanctioned Tornado addresses, freezing over $75,000 worth of USDC, later Monday.
Tornado Cash's GitHub and website went offline as well. Tornado Cash developer Roman Semenov's GitHub was suspended.

Bitcoin has a github and its devs have github accounts too.