5,000 BTC from Satoshi-Era Wallet Moved

[casinotester0001]

5000 BTC from Satoshi-Era Wallet Moved, maybe 3 More Wallets Wait to Send Bitcoin as they have the same origin ~21000 BTC.

A bitcoin address that had been dormant for nearly nine years transferred the entire balance of 5,001.51 BTCs to a new wallet on August 28, with a floating profit of more than $96 million.

source: https://u.today/5000-btc-from-satoshi-era-wallet-moved-3-more-wallets-wait-to-send-bitcoin


address: 15n6boxiQj45oHcmDjtNMjh35sFWZX4PBt
https://explorer.viawallet.com/btc/address/15n6boxiQj45oHcmDjtNMjh35sFWZX4PBt


What for accounts are these? One might think lost wallet, but the owner proved that it's not.


EDIT:

Also 5,000 BTC isn't that much compared to what some exchanges or funds have..

Another transaction with 5,000 dormant Bitcoin  from 7y ~ 10y age band
https://www.technopixel.org/10-thousand-bitcoins-awakened-after-7-years-is-selloff-coming/

This origin (~21000 BTC) is moving all their coins.

One funny detail:

transaction 0219d5bd944889a670687ffdf75e2d265b6066a355118eedd860a6aeb6f2eb32
https://explorer.viawallet.com/btc/tx/0219d5bd944889a670687ffdf75e2d265b6066a355118eedd860a6aeb6f2eb32
1 input ~5000 BTC
171 outputs, several outputs with exactly 47.98469209 BTC

 

Has someone an explanation for these several 47.98469209 BTC? Check the transaction: https://explorer.viawallet.com/btc/tx/0219d5bd944889a670687ffdf75e2d265b6066a355118eedd860a6aeb6f2eb32

[franky1]

first TX was in 2013

not satoshi era
this could be one of the MTgox batches as its more of mtgox era not satoshi era

[larry_vw_1955]

first TX was in 2013

not satoshi era
this could be one of the MTgox batches as its more of mtgox era not satoshi era

nevertheless kids, its good to understand that there's always people hodling bitcoin waiting for you to forget they have a huge stash they want to unload onto the market and they won't necessarily care if that makes your bitcoin become worth less in price when they do that. they're not using bitcoin to buy something or anything.

[DaveF]

Addresses and money like this move all the time, sometimes people are looking around for them and see them. Many times they do not.
The OP seems to be digging into and poking around old addresses for some reason. I think everyone who gets into BTC does that at some point in time.

Old addresses with a lot of funds are not that big a deal. If they have 1 like that they probably have more.

Not something to worry about the trading volume of BTC is on the order of 1.5 million coins a day. Having a few thousand more dumped into it is not something to worry about.

-Dave

[Upgrade00]

What for accounts are these? One might think lost wallet, but the owner proved that it's not.

It's almost impossible to determine if a wallet is lost. Lack of activity is not enough pointer that an account is lost, it is just dormant at that time.

I personally don't understand the point of following or discussing activity on different addresses. It does not impact the Bitcoin space and it's purely natural to have an address that has not moved or received funds for a period of time.

[o_e_l_e_o]

What for accounts are these?

Who cares? The bitcoin belongs to this individual. They are free to hold it, move it, sell it, trade it, dump it, anything they want, without any input or interference from third parties. Such is the beauty of bitcoin.

nevertheless kids, its good to understand that there's always people hodling bitcoin waiting for you to forget they have a huge stash they want to unload onto the market

The number of provably lost bitcoin numbers a few thousand at most. There are over 19 million coins in circulation, any of which could be unloaded on to the market at any time. No one is waiting for the market to "forget" about their coins.

Further, moving coins doesn't mean they are being sold.

they're not using bitcoin to buy something or anything.

How do you know that? Perhaps this person has just bought a luxury mansion for $100 million.

[mk4]

nevertheless kids, its good to understand that there's always people hodling bitcoin waiting for you to forget they have a huge stash they want to unload onto the market and they won't necessarily care if that makes your bitcoin become worth less in price when they do that. they're not using bitcoin to buy something or anything.

Why sort of demonize it though? Everyone has the right to buy or sell their bitcoin, regardless of how it would affect the markets. And why do they need to care anyway? The markets will drop to some extent regardless if the x,xxx BTC owner wants the market to drop or not.

[RapTarX]

This doesn’t seem like an individual transaction. I just had a quick look. Either on the output address belong to an exchange or a service from where most of the output were spent as small balance to a lot of addresses. While another output has been sent to an address which has 10k bitcoin balance. I guess it's a fund/cold storage of any old service/exchange. Whatever they are, I guess these are not anymore much of thinking about. I have been watching such thread every now and then lately but have hardly seen any big movement on the price.

[casinotester0001]

https://explorer.viawallet.com/btc/tx/0e3bbffe872689e8b0da1f04218aed2f0a50c6de02886873348dc01a478eea4b

This mentioned address 15n6boxiQj45oHcmDjtNMjh35sFWZX4PBt received over the years lots of dust transactions or small BTC values from several people. Whoever moved these ~5000 BTC took these dust transactions or small value transactions too. Is this ok?

[hosseinimr93]

Is this ok?

Yes.
Each of those small UTXOs adds around 150 satoshi to transactions size. Given that the fee rate used for the transaction in question was only 1.8 satoshi/byte, the fee added by each of them was lower than 547 satoshi and the sender didn't lose anything.

[pealr12]

Bro one whale can easily scoop up 5k btc without flinching, some people are already freaky out about the mtgox news even though it hasn't taken place yet. Sometimes it baffles me why people are too concerned with old wallet asset movement when we have only 21 million btc out of which some already probably lost forever and the most important thing is that 90% of the world's population doesn't own btc yet. 

[th3nolo]

This dude are still ppl publishing non-sense here to get merit's, activity and maybe some bread?

Also 5,000 BTC isn't that much compared to what some exchanges or funds have.. get over it

[casinotester0001]

Also 5,000 BTC isn't that much compared to what some exchanges or funds have..

Another transaction with 5,000 dormant Bitcoin  from 7y ~ 10y age band
https://www.technopixel.org/10-thousand-bitcoins-awakened-after-7-years-is-selloff-coming/

This origin (~21000 BTC) is moving all their coins.

One funny detail:

transaction 0219d5bd944889a670687ffdf75e2d265b6066a355118eedd860a6aeb6f2eb32
https://explorer.viawallet.com/btc/tx/0219d5bd944889a670687ffdf75e2d265b6066a355118eedd860a6aeb6f2eb32
1 input ~5000 BTC
171 outputs, several outputs with exactly 47.98469209 BTC

 

[Bitcoin_Arena]

What for accounts are these?

What accounts for the fact that 1,000 other users moved more than 1 BTC today?
Nothing!

Just because someone has held lots of BTC for many years shouldn't mean that he or she is first supposed to explain to use why they are moving the BTC 

[casinotester0001]

Addresses and money like this move all the time, sometimes people are looking around for them and see them. Many times they do not.
The OP seems to be digging into and poking around old addresses for some reason. I think everyone who gets into BTC does that at some point in time.

6 months ago discovered the chapter "lost/damaged wallets/passwords/keys" in the Bitcoin world. Since then looking for stories, wallets, transactions that are connected with such addresses. So found also this address. But so far no clues whether it's a recovered wallet. I must say there are so many fantastic stories (but also lot of fake wallets, damaged keys). I hope that people who lost their keys can be able to get their coins one day.

[DigitalMonk]

There are many people in the Bitcoin community, those who have a great concern about Satoshi's Stash of Bitcoin. Some of them are trying to find out if they can hack those old BTC Address. So they will become rich quick. This is a kind of stupidity, what we can say.

If Satoshi want to move his Bitcoin he will do it after getting advise from Bitcoin community and other Bitcoin big business men. He will not do anything nonsense.

Anyway, I can assure you that if he want to move his Bitcoin to another address for security or for selling, he will definitely inform  me first with a signed message. Now you are going to say, "who do you think you are ? Are you Satoshi's  twin brother ? "  Well, I am the only Digital Monk here in the  Bitcoin Talk Forum. So, please trust me, when Satoshi come back from his time traveling, he will inform me that he has returned. So please be patience !  I will inform the Bitcoin community, when he come back.

[larry_vw_1955]

Who cares? The bitcoin belongs to this individual. They are free to hold it, move it, sell it, trade it, dump it, anything they want, without any input or interference from third parties. Such is the beauty of bitcoin.

Well, money gets confiscated from people all the time, fiat I mean. Go on a plane and don't declare your large sum of money and guess what? you don't own it anymore. You have to declare it. Let people know you have it. So how you are describing is like a perfect utopia that ignores how things work in the real world. Only in imaginary bitcoin land do they maybe work that way until you try stepping out into the fiat world. You can't do anything you want "without any input or interference from third parties" not in the real world, only in your imaginary bitcoin land maybe.

How do you know that? Perhaps this person has just bought a luxury mansion for $100 million.

do you have a link to a story about someone doing that recently? i didn't think so. and if they did then don't you think someone has some serious taxes to pay? and wouldn't the government want to know who they are? the seller and buyer.

[amishmanish]

That's the beauty of Bitcoin. I see a lot of people saying what is the value of Bitcoin, i say ask this fellow, he will tell you better. I think the time he would have bought it, it might would havr costed him a few thousand dollars and now he is making big profit out of it after so many years. And it's his money let him do as he desires.

[SpenserReed]

5000 BTC from Satoshi-Era Wallet Moved, maybe 3 More Wallets Wait to Send Bitcoin as they have the same origin ~21000 BTC.

It's strange that they didn't have any movement when BTC was over 50k... 

[worle1bm]

There are many wallets which have been dormant for years and suddenly they move some coins so it's not a big deal at all as you if you check for such addresses you will find coins movement from one wallet to another after so many years and that also with big amounts.They have acquired btc at cheap rates and now they see huge profits in them so they might have some plans but we can't account for each of them.

[o_e_l_e_o]

Whoever moved these ~5000 BTC took these dust transactions or small value transactions too. Is this ok?

The whole point of a dust attack is that the attacker hopes that people will spend/consolidate dust outputs from two or more different addresses together in the same transaction, thereby providing a high degree of certainty that those two addresses are linked together and owned by the same person or entity. Since the transaction you linked spends many dust outputs all from the same address, then there is no privacy leak here and the attack gains no knowledge about any other addresses this person/entity owns.

You can't do anything you want "without any input or interference from third parties" not in the real world, only in your imaginary bitcoin land maybe.

If the user in question here wanted to move $100 million in fiat from one bank account to another, how much paperwork do you think they would need to fill in for their bank? How many people would they need to speak to and get permission from first, both at their bank and the receiving bank? How many third parties would need to sign off on it first? Now consider the same situation in paperwork. How much paperwork did this person have to complete before making this bitcoin transaction? Exactly zero. And how many third parties did they need to speak to and get permission from first? Exactly zero.

[franky1]

first TX was in 2013

not satoshi era
this could be one of the MTgox batches as its more of mtgox era not satoshi era

nevertheless kids, its good to understand that there's always people hodling bitcoin waiting for you to forget they have a huge stash they want to unload onto the market and they won't necessarily care if that makes your bitcoin become worth less in price when they do that. they're not using bitcoin to buy something or anything.

i have a hoard from the 2012 era. and the 2013 era. (and other era after that)
oh and i buy real life stuff with bitcoin.
food, furnishings, tools, gadgets, travel, transport.
i have no desires to just exit in a large mass market sell off.. thats just shooting self in the foot

also 5k coins is not a big deal in the scope of millions in volume. its a blip on the scale. a small wiggle in the scope of market prices


though i am a realist and dont fear mentioning bitcoin flaws. i still use and prefer bitcoin more than fiat. for many reasons. i dont need to spout out exaggerations of bitcoin utopia(over-promising/lying by exaggeration). i do however also avoid exaggerating pretending bitcoin is dead/not fit.

bitcoin is functional with a mass of opportunity and utility and purpose. even if it is currently a lil stifled by some dev politics games currently

its open fair minded realist thoughts of both good and bad. so that people have the whole information.
...
i dont see bitcoin as a "price"... the market "price" is meaningless to me. this is not the same as not caring. its just that the whims of daily price activity are not worth crying about.
EG when the PRICE dips. thats not a warning to start crying. thats a opportunity to buy at a discount of future price.
when the price moves by 5%. i dont care if its going up or down.
i have both fiat and bitcoin.
a 5% up, is a oppertunity to sell a chunk to increase fiat reserves for later buys
a 5% down, is a oppertunity to buy a chunk to increase btc reserves for later sells

i personally away from an exchange, use and prefer to use bitcoin for daily activities. but inside an exchange, ..market price movements of both up and down are not reasons to cry or be upset. they are just opportunities to increase reserves of one side or the other. its not about trying to pump a price
its not about trying to dump the price

[casinotester0001]

Has someone an explanation for these several 47.98469209 BTC in the output of the 5000 BTC? Check the transaction: https://explorer.viawallet.com/btc/tx/0219d5bd944889a670687ffdf75e2d265b6066a355118eedd860a6aeb6f2eb32

[franky1]

Has someone an explanation for these several 47.98469209 BTC in the output of the 5000 BTC? Check the transaction: https://explorer.viawallet.com/btc/tx/0219d5bd944889a670687ffdf75e2d265b6066a355118eedd860a6aeb6f2eb32

using common sense.

if i was a holder of 5000coin(more then this in other stashes i own for many reasons)
lets say i was also a mining pool and/or exchange (lets say i was houbi)
(im not houbi, im using hypothetical common sense narrative)


i hoard coin over X years from profits of many reasons. trading/exchange, investing/mining but recently due to some reason its time to pay out some of the mining rewards of old users/investors wanting to take their shares/splits
of investment i was custodian of for a long time

so i grab a stash i have (just happen to be a 2013 stash)
i break it up into allotments of blockrewards minus fee's (47.9826209) from an old excel sheet of old blocksolves i logged and kept for accounting reasons
for the numerous blocks that my pool solved ages ago

i then split them coins up to pay out to mining owners that got shares in my pools activity

also another hypothetical.
they dont want to move around amounts of more then $100k to users/people

that said.
rather then all of the speculation that 5000btc is being thrown into the market as 1 lump to tank othe price (never happened) its actually appears to be a movement from cold to hotwallet. and then split apart to give payouts for many allotments going different places

[larry_vw_1955]

If the user in question here wanted to move $100 million in fiat from one bank account to another, how much paperwork do you think they would need to fill in for their bank? How many people would they need to speak to and get permission from first, both at their bank and the receiving bank? How many third parties would need to sign off on it first?

Ever heard of a cashiers check? https://www.investopedia.com/best-ways-to-get-a-cashier-s-check-4590106

That's all they would need to do. Bring ID to the bank and pay the cashiers check fee. Everything has a fee for sending, even bitcoin.

Now consider the same situation in paperwork. How much paperwork did this person have to complete before making this bitcoin transaction? Exactly zero. And how many third parties did they need to speak to and get permission from first? Exactly zero.

Which is why people use bitcoin for illegal purposes so that they can skirt the law. Not everyone uses bitcoin for illegal reasons though but that's one of the arguments against bitcoin and it's so called anonymity. In a sense it is understandable because it decreases frictions associated with things like money laundering, terrorism etc. On the other hand, politicians like to use those phrases to take away peoples' freedoms.

i have a hoard from the 2012 era. and the 2013 era. (and other era after that)

cool!

oh and i buy real life stuff with bitcoin.
food, furnishings, tools, gadgets, travel, transport.

that's even more cool. i wish i could point to a use that i have like that and say "bitcoin make this thing easier and less costly to buy using it than it does with fiat." i'm not there yet but maybe oneday.

i have no desires to just exit in a large mass market sell off.. thats just shooting self in the foot

if someone values their bitcoin, they'll probably always keep at least a small stash of it. just like they would if they were a precious metals afficionado.

also 5k coins is not a big deal in the scope of millions in volume. its a blip on the scale. a small wiggle in the scope of market prices

the 24 hour volume is about 1.8 million btc i looked it up. kind of suprised it is that large. its like 10% of the bitcoin supply changed hands every 24 hours.

[franky1]

If the user in question here wanted to move $100 million in fiat from one bank account to another, how much paperwork do you think they would need to fill in for their bank? How many people would they need to speak to and get permission from first, both at their bank and the receiving bank? How many third parties would need to sign off on it first?

Ever heard of a cashiers check? https://www.investopedia.com/best-ways-to-get-a-cashier-s-check-4590106

That's all they would need to do. Bring ID to the bank and pay the cashiers check fee. Everything has a fee for sending, even bitcoin.

if i wanted to move my hoard from one address to another... none of that.
i dont even have to put my shoes on..

..let alone not need to get value transferred from
digital currency->paper currency(check)->digital currency
which generates CTR and requires ID and yep takes 2 days to clear
(only amounts under $5.5k are same day no ID depending on bank)

you will find cashiers checks are actually more variable/complicated

[yhiaali3]

It is possible that this moved bitcoin is the bitcoin that was stolen from the exchange several years ago and has been frozen until this time, it is also possible that this wallet is the wallet of Satoshi or maybe one of the unknown people who bought bitcoin in the early days long ago, there are several hypotheses And no one can know exactly, this is what makes Bitcoin so special, maintaining privacy with transparency.

[larry_vw_1955]

if i wanted to move my hoard from one address to another... none of that.
i dont even have to put my shoes on..

well but we dont know who the owner of the other address is for sure though so it may not be just sending it to himself. it may be sending it to someone else.

..let alone not need to get value transferred from
digital currency->paper currency(check)->digital currency
which generates CTR and requires ID and yep takes 2 days to clear
(only amounts under $5.5k are same day no ID depending on bank)

you will find cashiers checks are actually more variable/complicated

well yeah i agree if you have your money in bitcoin then you would want to pay in bitcoin rather than convert it into fiat and then pay. but if the person you're paying wants fiat then you don't have a choice. and if they want fiat then at some endpoint, someone is going to be showing an ID. want fiat? show an ID.

[o_e_l_e_o]

That's all they would need to do. Bring ID to the bank and pay the cashiers check fee. Everything has a fee for sending, even bitcoin.

So I have to go to the bank, prove who I am, have my ID checked, have the cashier produce a check, have it signed, have it countersigned, send it to the other person, they have to take it to their bank, have it checked by their bank, arrange with yet more third parties to actually transfer the funds, the list goes on. That's a lot of third parties who need to agree to the process, any one of which could decide to deny my request.

With bitcoin, I make a transaction, I sign it, I broadcast it. Done. There is no one to deny me anything.

well but we dont know who the owner of the other address is for sure though so it may not be just sending it to himself. it may be sending it to someone else.

Exactly! The beauty of bitcoin. Can't do that with a bank.

want fiat? show an ID.

Or just trade peer to peer.

[BlackHatCoiner]

Not everyone uses bitcoin for illegal reasons though but that's one of the arguments against bitcoin and it's so called anonymity.

Nearly everyone's using bitcoin is a suspect, according to FATF. According to this paper, if you use anonymous communication (Tor or VPN), or if your IP isn't whitelisted, or if you gamble, or if you try to withdraw your money off the exchange, or use more than one cryptocurrency, or just do self-custody; in all these cases, you're a red flag according to anti-money laundering fantastic nonsense.

In other words: If you use bitcoin, you're guilty until proven innocent.

[franky1]

..let alone not need to get value transferred from
digital currency->paper currency(check)->digital currency
which generates CTR and requires ID and yep takes 2 days to clear
(only amounts under $5.5k are same day no ID depending on bank)

you will find cashiers checks are actually more variable/complicated

well yeah i agree if you have your money in bitcoin then you would want to pay in bitcoin rather than convert it into fiat and then pay. but if the person you're paying wants fiat then you don't have a choice. and if they want fiat then at some endpoint, someone is going to be showing an ID. want fiat? show an ID.

you do have a choice.
like if you know your countries fiat laws have a policy that amounts of $100k defacto cause a CTR report to be sent where its a top tax office threshold that would trigger a full on deep investigation with the top IRS team.
then you would split funds into sub $100k amounts. to not be watched by the higher up teams of investigators

EG avoid:
you cashing out 5000btc $100m (causing massive investigation on you) where you have to supply lots of info..
you then splitting $100m fiat into lots of over $100k amounts to pay to customers

instead. inside bitcoin
you split the amounts into sub $100k amounts
move then to separate addressses. and have the customers shuffle things about in bitcoin and then exit via different exits themselves. so they dont trigger CTR reports on the customers.

so when paying out to different people this year you are only paying out sub $100k amounts to people thus not generate dozens of CTR reports. against you.
because its then those users who are doing the exits of under $100k individually. instead of you as a lump sum or fiat splits to then pay people

.. and if users are smart. they can declare those amounts as funds for [insert tax loophole] so they pay no tax on those amounts..

something you cannot do if you just exited with $100m in one lump and then done shuffling in the fiat arena to pay out to people

[DeathAngel]

As others have said, it’s really not that unusual. It’s also not Satoshi era, I’m seeing 2013 as the first transactions. Lots of early adopters still around with fat stacks of bitcoin. Admittedly that is a really big stack but these people do walk amongst us

[coolcoinz]

5000 BTC from Satoshi-Era Wallet Moved, maybe 3 More Wallets Wait to Send Bitcoin as they have the same origin ~21000 BTC.

It's strange that they didn't have any movement when BTC was over 50k... 

No it's not strange at all. You move your coins when you move your coins. A few reasons why people move coins are:
Wallet software or hardware change
Death. Coins were recovered by family and moved.
If it's a Mt.Gox wallet these are being redistributed this year.
We could go on and come up with a few more but what's the point? As it was said earlier in the thread moving doesn't mean selling.

[casinotester0001]

Addresses and money like this move all the time, sometimes people are looking around for them and see them. Many times they do not.
The OP seems to be digging into and poking around old addresses for some reason. I think everyone who gets into BTC does that at some point in time.

6 months ago discovered the chapter "lost/damaged wallets/passwords/keys" in the Bitcoin world. Since then looking for stories, wallets, transactions that are connected with such addresses. So found also this address. But so far no clues whether it's a recovered wallet. I must say there are so many fantastic stories (but also lot of fake wallets, damaged keys). I hope that people who lost their keys can be able to get their coins one day.

One of the best stories is a guy who created lots of addresses, printed the screen output for each wallet on paper and stored them years ago. Then transferred over a long period BTC from exchanges to these addresses (The sum is huge). But he thought that a message plus the signature of this message can be used as private key and all of his prints on paper show exactly this. Instead of printing the WIFs, he made a cold wallet storage on paper of the signatures as he never saw a WIF private key before and thought that these are used to create signatures with the Bitcoin GUI. The good part of the story is: one day he will be able to calculate the private keys as each print shows several windows where also the txt window is visible with parts of the WIF. What I want to say: 'Your Keys, Your Coins' but understand exactly what private keys are, how they work and test it with small amounts (to an address and from that address to a new address) before you do it with large ones.

Maybe this 5000 BTC account was such a case, the owner was able to 'reconstruct' or 'calculate' his lost/destroyed private key.

[BitcoinADAB]

5000 BTC from Satoshi-Era Wallet Moved, maybe 3 More Wallets Wait to Send Bitcoin as they have the same origin ~21000 BTC.

What for accounts are these?

Looks like they came from the Mt Gox breach that occurred in 2011.

https://news.bitcoin.com/whale-spends-10000-btc-worth-203m-bitcoins-stem-from-infamous-2011-mt-gox-hack/

[Quidat]

5000 BTC from Satoshi-Era Wallet Moved, maybe 3 More Wallets Wait to Send Bitcoin as they have the same origin ~21000 BTC.

It's strange that they didn't have any movement when BTC was over 50k...  

No it's not strange at all. You move your coins when you move your coins. A few reasons why people move coins are:
Wallet software or hardware change
Death. Coins were recovered by family and moved.
If it's a Mt.Gox wallet these are being redistributed this year.
We could go on and come up with a few more but what's the point? As it was said earlier in the thread moving doesn't mean selling.

People are just too reactive when it comes to these kind of aspect which it isnt really out business on whether those coins would be moved or not by its owners.  
Its true that there are lots of factors which could really be the reason on why these coins been moved out and its true and precise that being moved doesnt
automatically means that it would be sell out but i cant blame out people not to have these kind of things in mind considering on how long those coins been holded up
and now it did make out some movement then its maybe the right time to get some profits.

[darkangel11]

I don't get why people see old coins moving as frightening or worrying. It's great that these coins aren't lost, that's 1. 2, if that person sells, the coins will get redistributed among many new users so there won't be a whale to worry about in future but maybe some new bitcoiners will buy them at low price at or near the cycle bottom.
It's normal that coins change hands. Stop whining.

[larry_vw_1955]

So I have to go to the bank, prove who I am, have my ID checked, have the cashier produce a check, have it signed, have it countersigned, send it to the other person, they have to take it to their bank, have it checked by their bank, arrange with yet more third parties to actually transfer the funds, the list goes on. That's a lot of third parties who need to agree to the process, any one of which could decide to deny my request.

That's how it is supposed to be apparently. The government makes it hard to transfer larger amounts. And you're at the mercy of banks.

With bitcoin, I make a transaction, I sign it, I broadcast it. Done. There is no one to deny me anything.

Enjoy it while it lasts because if the government (USA government) ever gets their grubby hands on bitcoin, they'll try and introduce controls over how much btc you can send at one time. And don't try and "structure" your transactions because that will be against the law too.

Or just trade peer to peer.

And keep your fiat under a mattress. Because you wouldn't want the government knowing you cashed out some bitcoin. not if it was $100 million. Then pay for things with cash. Alot of things.

then you would split funds into sub $100k amounts. to not be watched by the higher up teams of investigators

well i get what you're saying franky but i think all of what you discussed concerning splitting up funds into smaller sub accounts is what the US government calls "structuring". whether you do it using bitcoin or with fiat, i'm sure the irs would still consider it a crime. i should say POTENTIAL crime. one they need to investigate, etc.

[BlackHatCoiner]

Enjoy it while it lasts because if the government (USA government) ever gets their grubby hands on bitcoin, they'll try and introduce controls over how much btc you can send at one time.

The US government, just like any government, doesn't control bitcoin. Users do. In the same way they don't control peer-to-peer communication, file sharing-- encryption in general. Not only do they can't prevent you from broadcasting a transaction, but they can't even be sure who's making that very transaction. That's the beauty of transparency. You can verify that the transaction is settled without knowing who's sending to who.

[larry_vw_1955]

Enjoy it while it lasts because if the government (USA government) ever gets their grubby hands on bitcoin, they'll try and introduce controls over how much btc you can send at one time.

The US government, just like any government, doesn't control bitcoin.

They don't have to be able to control bitcoin. All they have to do is make laws regarding its use.

Just as an example:

https://www.coindesk.com/policy/2022/08/08/crypto-mixing-service-tornado-cash-blacklisted-by-us-treasury/

The Office of Foreign Assets Control (OFAC), a watchdog agency tasked with preventing sanctions violations, on Monday added Tornado Cash to its Specially Designated Nationals list, a running tally of blacklisted people, entities and cryptocurrency addresses. As a result, all U.S. persons and entities are prohibited from interacting with Tornado Cash or any of the Ethereum wallet addresses tied to the protocol. Those who do may face criminal penalties.

Users do. In the same way they don't control peer-to-peer communication, file sharing-- encryption in general. Not only do they can't prevent you from broadcasting a transaction, but they can't even be sure who's making that very transaction. That's the beauty of transparency. You can verify that the transaction is settled without knowing who's sending to who.

The OFAC could just as easily come out and say US persons and entities are prohibited from using bitcoin. What you gonna do then? Become a law breaker? Bitcoin won't save you if you get caught using bitcoin then. About the only thing you could do then is renounce your US citizenship and move to another country. Or just stop using bitcoin. Most people would do that.


In Monday’s action OFAC sanctioned Tornado Cash’s donation address, proxy address, a Gitcoin grants address and several others, including a few USDC addresses. More than 40 addresses in total were put on the sanctions list.
Circle blacklisted the sanctioned Tornado addresses, freezing over $75,000 worth of USDC, later Monday.
Tornado Cash's GitHub and website went offline as well. Tornado Cash developer Roman Semenov's GitHub was suspended.

Bitcoin has a github and its devs have github accounts too.

[BlackHatCoiner]

They don't have to be able to control bitcoin. All they have to do is make laws regarding its use.

They can put pressure to its usage, sure. But, they don't control the protocol, which is what I meant.

The OFAC could just as easily come out and say US persons and entities are prohibited from using bitcoin.

Authorities can come out and say whatever the hell they want. If there's demand & supply for something, there will also be a market for it. Prohibitions might threaten some citizens, similar to media's FUD if you think about it, but the fact remains: It's an unstoppable currency that satisfies a need which can't be satisfied otherwise. Some people will always use it, same as they use drugs regardless of being illegal or not.

What you gonna do then? Become a law breaker?

Perhaps.

[larry_vw_1955]

What you gonna do then? Become a law breaker?

Perhaps.

well then you would be the exception rather than the rule. just don't let your bank know what you're up to or any close friends since they might rat you out. in fact, just keep it a secret from everyone and make sure to use a vpn or two here on bitcointalk.

[DaveF]

That's all they would need to do. Bring ID to the bank and pay the cashiers check fee. Everything has a fee for sending, even bitcoin.

So I have to go to the bank, prove who I am, have my ID checked, have the cashier produce a check, have it signed, have it countersigned, send it to the other person, they have to take it to their bank, have it checked by their bank, arrange with yet more third parties to actually transfer the funds, the list goes on. That's a lot of third parties who need to agree to the process, any one of which could decide to deny my request.
[/quote]

Only if you are looking to get cash or cash equivalent. One of my clients routinely logs into online banking and sends out 7 figure payments to people.
Needs a 2FA dongle thing and a username & password and can ACH money in 5 minutes and it's in the recipients account later that day. Wire transfers around the world are the same.

If I had it I could do $500k without even calling my bank, I remember laughing when they said that was my limit. I'm just $495k short of that at the moment so I can't really test it, but when my friend sold and then bought a house there were no checks or anything else. All online and both transactions were in the hundreds of thousands.

-Dave

[CryptoHeadlineNews]

I can assure you that if he want to move his Bitcoin to another address for security or for selling, he will definitely inform  me first with a signed message. Now you are going to say, "who do you think you are ? Are you Satoshi's  twin brother ? "  Well, I am the only Digital Monk here in the  Bitcoin Talk Forum.

Please can you stop joking all the time with your useless threads and post @ Digitalmonk, what do you actually mean by if Satoshi wants to move his Bitcoins he will first have to contact you. Who do you actually think you are? Are you the holder of his wallet password or passphrase? Or on what ground do you think he has to contact you? Because I really think the psychiatrist hospital for monk would have actually been a better place for you than here on this forum.

[o_e_l_e_o]

That's how it is supposed to be apparently. The government makes it hard to transfer larger amounts. And you're at the mercy of banks.

This is precisely what bitcoin solves.

And don't try and "structure" your transactions because that will be against the law too.

It already is. If you use bitcoin through a centralized exchange, you are already at the mercy of the government.

Because you wouldn't want the government knowing you cashed out some bitcoin.

Even if you receive fiat directly in to your bank account when trading bitcoin peer to peer, the government just sees a transfer from one private individual to another. It doesn't know that any bitcoin changed hands.

Only if you are looking to get cash or cash equivalent. One of my clients routinely logs into online banking and sends out 7 figure payments to people.

Doesn't mean it isn't being checked, even if by some automatic algorithm at his bank. And if something flags up, you can guarantee that payment is being put on hold while the bank investigate. This is simply not possible with bitcoin.

[larry_vw_1955]

That's how it is supposed to be apparently. The government makes it hard to transfer larger amounts. And you're at the mercy of banks.

This is precisely what bitcoin solves.

It certainly does that. We've seen the government trying to make rules up but nothing to really stop people from transferring large amounts of bitcoin. I just don't think the US government will allow it to go on forever though. Not for US citizens anyway. But that's just an opinion. But they force everyone filing a tax return to answer questions about if they received crypto during the year. I'm sure those reporting requirements will grow more onerous over time such that one day you'll have to answer whether you sent any crypto or whether you own any and then how much of each type of crypto and please list the wallet addresses etc. it will just get worse.

And don't try and "structure" your transactions because that will be against the law too.

It already is. If you use bitcoin through a centralized exchange, you are already at the mercy of the government.

And possibly even worse, at the mercy of the centralized exchange!

Because you wouldn't want the government knowing you cashed out some bitcoin.

Even if you receive fiat directly in to your bank account when trading bitcoin peer to peer, the government just sees a transfer from one private individual to another. It doesn't know that any bitcoin changed hands.

But if the amount of large enough, that will begin an investigation possibly where they try and find out all the details and reasons why this individual is receiving a large amount of cash into their bank account, same as if you walked in and tried to deposit it in person. As far as the bank and government are concerned they don't know where the money came from so they possibly assume the worst, that it comes from illegal things.

We have to remember that at least in the USA, when it comes to matters like these, people CAN BE treated as guilty until proven innocent.

[noormcs5]

5000 BTC from Satoshi-Era Wallet Moved, maybe 3 More Wallets Wait to Send Bitcoin as they have the same origin ~21000 BTC.

To be very transparent, there is a limited bitcoin supply and even if lot of bitcoins are moved from old addresses, there is nothing to panic about. We do not need to speculate anything. Moving bitcoin could means that bitcoin may have changed hands and that's it. Bitcoin supply hasn't increased due to this, right , wo why getting panic ?

Also i see people getting worried about the Mt gox bitcoin distribution will cause big selling, agree there can be selling pressure for some time but then again bitcoin will move from mt gox weak hands to strong holding hands and total bitcoin supply will remain same. The demand for bitcoin wont be less. 

[o_e_l_e_o]

I just don't think the US government will allow it to go on forever though. Not for US citizens anyway.

I agree, and the mandatory question right at the top of Form 1040 is just the beginning. No doubt the government will want full self-reporting of every wallet address you control in the future. But the fact remains - if you fail to comply with fiat regulations, then the government can take your fiat out your bank accounts with ease. If you fail to comply with bitcoin regulations, the government can't take anything unless you hand it over to them.

Moving bitcoin could means that bitcoin may have changed hands and that's it. Bitcoin supply hasn't increased due to this, right , wo why getting panic ?

Because some people wrongly assume that any coins which has not moved in 5 or 10 years is "lost" and therefore removed from the supply, and therefore any coins which have been dormant for this long and then "wake up" again are effectively inflating the current supply. This is obviously nonsense, as has been proved many many times in the past. The only coins which can be removed from the supply are those which are provably lost or burnt, and those coins number a few thousand at most.

[virasog]

Because some people wrongly assume that any coins which has not moved in 5 or 10 years is "lost" and therefore removed from the supply, and therefore any coins which have been dormant for this long and then "wake up" again are effectively inflating the current supply. This is obviously nonsense, as has been proved many many times in the past. The only coins which can be removed from the supply are those which are provably lost or burnt, and those coins number a few thousand at most.

Even if no coins are lost, still the bitcoin supply is very less and limited and if the demand grows, the price will rise significantly. However, there will be constant loss of bitcoins as people might forget their passphrases and some bitcoin holders might die too without telling their keys to anyone, and a lot of other reasons.

[casinotester0001]

Again another 5000 BTC moved:

Address: 18xGHNrU26w6HSCEL8DD5o1whfiDaYgp6i

txid: 4e51e9c29620f676e49e4a3670be158fa626866c032b46a2a2ee254c861604c6

4/Sep/2022 8:50 PM UTC

[aysg76]

Because some people wrongly assume that any coins which has not moved in 5 or 10 years is "lost" and therefore removed from the supply, and therefore any coins which have been dormant for this long and then "wake up" again are effectively inflating the current supply. This is obviously nonsense, as has been proved many many times in the past. The only coins which can be removed from the supply are those which are provably lost or burnt, and those coins number a few thousand at most.

The owners that have lost the keys are actually out of circulation at this time but anytime they remember the password the coins can be back into circulation and increase the supply so there is difference in these terms.As per report there are over 4 million coins lost but actually they have not the password and keys with them.

The actual coins lost are the one's which are send to OP_Return command as they can't be retrieved at all and are out of circulation.Those who are dormant address can wake up again anytime and move huge amount of bitcoin with them in transactions like you have seen.So this is reality we need to understand.

[o_e_l_e_o]

The owners that have lost the keys are actually out of circulation at this time but anytime they remember the password the coins can be back into circulation and increase the supply so there is difference in these terms.As per report there are over 4 million coins lost but actually they have not the password and keys with them.

This is not an accurate statement. There are plenty of reasons that coins might not move for 5 years or more that do not include the owner losing the keys.

The actual coins lost are the one's which are send to OP_Return command as they can't be retrieved at all and are out of circulation.

There are actually a few other ways that coins have been provably lost, which I have previously outlined here and here. Still, the number of provably lost coins is in the region of 2,823 BTC, and certainly nowhere near the 4 million that some people speculated.

[EdenHazard]

It seems so easy for those whales to shake the market in uncertainity.

Simply moving the coins! Especially the dormant one! So you can get more bitcoin in these bearish run. Crazy to speculate that those thousands of bitcoin are going to dropped in the market all at once.
Too much possibility with really limited sources to reveal the fact , bitcoin transacted decentralized so yeah who knows.

[DaveF]

It seems so easy for those whales to shake the market in uncertainity.

Simply moving the coins! Especially the dormant one! So you can get more bitcoin in these bearish run. Crazy to speculate that those thousands of bitcoin are going to dropped in the market all at once.
Too much possibility with really limited sources to reveal the fact , bitcoin transacted decentralized so yeah who knows.

Yet again I am saying the same thing that people refuse to understand. But one more time people.

The volume of BTC <-> USD / USDT / other 'stable' coins is on the order of $7 BILLION dollars a day at a minimum. There is about another BILLION dollars a day in BTC <-> alts.

If they dump it all at ones it's adding $100 million to the pot. Yes it MIGHT move the value SLIGHTLY. BUT MOST PROBABLY NOT.

Depending on who you ask / where you look there is probably close to another 10% in trading not being shown in the $7 billion number due to OTC and other places that are not being reported in the CMC / coingecko type places.

-Dave

[larry_vw_1955]

I just don't think the US government will allow it to go on forever though. Not for US citizens anyway.

I agree, and the mandatory question right at the top of Form 1040 is just the beginning. No doubt the government will want full self-reporting of every wallet address you control in the future.

Which is why it probably won't be worth being involved in crypto for usa residents. That's just being honest. The small profits you might make will certainly be outweighed by all the reporting requirements. I mean they almost already are. You have to file capital gains tax forms and pay too! Plus make declaratiions. And then if they don't believe you, you might get audited on your crypto! So much for bitcoin being semi-anonymous then. you're gonna hand over every address you control to them then so they can see EVERYTHING.

But the fact remains - if you fail to comply with fiat regulations, then the government can take your fiat out your bank accounts with ease. If you fail to comply with bitcoin regulations, the government can't take anything unless you hand it over to them.

In that case, hopefully other prison inmates accept bitcoin and you can have a way of sending it to them inside the joint. a good use case for brainwallets ...?

[o_e_l_e_o]

The small profits you might make will certainly be outweighed by all the reporting requirements.

I don't think this is true at all. If you simply buy and hold, then the reporting requirements are not onerous at all (or indeed, non-existent until you sell or trade your bitcoin), and you will make a much better profit buying and holding bitcoin for 10 years than you will holding rapidly inflationary USD. There is also a bill kicking around Congress which would exempt all bitcoin transactions under $200 from tax, which would mean bitcoin can be used as a daily currency for the majority of people without having to worry about tax reporting.

In that case, hopefully other prison inmates accept bitcoin and you can have a way of sending it to them inside the joint.

There are many scenarios in which someone is not a prisoner but still has their assets frozen by the government. Recent examples include loads of private Russian citizens around the world, and a bunch of Canadian and US citizens who donated to the Canadian trucker protest. Bitcoin solves this.

[larry_vw_1955]

There is also a bill kicking around Congress which would exempt all bitcoin transactions under $200 from tax, which would mean bitcoin can be used as a daily currency for the majority of people without having to worry about tax reporting.

yeah i heard about that a while back but i think they put it on the backburner and it'll probably be forgotten. probably for good reason too since people would just structure their purchases and send multiple amounts for under $200 which add up to the total purchase price. easy to do with bitcoin. taxes evaded.

[o_e_l_e_o]

probably for good reason too since people would just structure their purchases and send multiple amounts for under $200 which add up to the total purchase price. easy to do with bitcoin. taxes evaded.

Not any easier than to do the exact same thing with cash, and in fact, far more difficult since there remains a permanent and immutable record of the fact you have done this. Centralized exchanges and payment processors would very quickly report you even if you tried to do this.

I actually think the limit should be higher, maybe in the region of $1,000, especially over time as bitcoin continues to gain value against the rapid inflation of the dollar. But better to get a low limit passed first and then work on increasing it.

[fzkto]

Such moves often come from old wallets. Every time there is a price bottom or top, someone is bound to transfer some amount of bitcoins and everyone will start talking about it. But I don't think it means anything. It sounds as ridiculous to me as the 0666, 0777 or 0888 transaction theory. I don't see any manipulation in it.

[gunhell16]

According to his tx id, he already had 5000 BTC in his wallet in 2013, after 9 years on the month of August 29, 2022,
he took it out according to the picture you see.

[/url]

But the next day August 30, 2022, he withdrew bitcoin again in the amount of 5001btc which is the same year, month,
and the bitcoin was received.



It turns out that only one person did it and the total amount of bitcoins he released immediately in consecutive days is 10k bitcoins,
which if we change it to dollars at the current price of bitcoins, the total is more than 210M$.

[larry_vw_1955]

Not any easier than to do the exact same thing with cash, and in fact, far more difficult since there remains a permanent and immutable record of the fact you have done this. Centralized exchanges and payment processors would very quickly report you even if you tried to do this.

Well yeah, if the only way to own bitcoin was through centralized exchanges and there was no such thing as self-custody then sure. but people dont have to keep their bitcoin on centralized exchanges and they don't need payment processors for paying someone using bitcoin. they only need those things as endpoints, aka, cashing out. but even cashing out can be done without them as I'm sure you already know.

I actually think the limit should be higher, maybe in the region of $1,000, especially over time as bitcoin continues to gain value against the rapid inflation of the dollar. But better to get a low limit passed first and then work on increasing it.

the limit should be unlimited. if someone has already pay taxes on money they put into bitcoin, why should they have to pay taxes on it again? eventually the government wins and gets everything.

[nullama]

~snip~
the limit should be unlimited. if someone has already pay taxes on money they put into bitcoin, why should they have to pay taxes on it again? eventually the government wins and gets everything.

They are different taxes though. You never pay tax twice.

When you receive money from work, you pay income taxes.

If you buy Bitcoin with that money and then immediately sell at the same price (let's ignore exchange fees for now) you don't have to pay any more taxes.

You only pay taxes when you sell Bitcoin (or any other asset) at a higher value than what you paid for it. That's capital gains tax. You're paying on the extra money that you have.

You only pay on the extra money, not the initial one that's already taxed.

[yazher]

Such moves often come from old wallets. Every time there is a price bottom or top, someone is bound to transfer some amount of bitcoins and everyone will start talking about it. But I don't think it means anything. It sounds as ridiculous to me as the 0666, 0777 or 0888 transaction theory. I don't see any manipulation in it.

With this kind of topic created every single move by the old holders is really not good. Imagine, you have your own bitcoins and you decide whatever you want from it and some random people start talking about it. Anyway, they can't do anything anyway but just watch the movement of the transactions, and whatever they want with their bitcoins is totally fine because in the first place they've been holding for so long and the time finally comes for them to sell some of it and leave their life with their earnings.

[noormcs5]

Such moves often come from old wallets. Every time there is a price bottom or top, someone is bound to transfer some amount of bitcoins and everyone will start talking about it. But I don't think it means anything. It sounds as ridiculous to me as the 0666, 0777 or 0888 transaction theory. I don't see any manipulation in it.

Anyone who is holding bitcoins won't sell them for so long, and won't dump them altogether in the market. Secondly, fundamentally nothing is changed in bitcoin.
Bitcoin price is volatile and old investors already know it. The price will never be a reason for them to dump the coins when they know that bitcoin will reach another all-time high.

[kamvreto]

Such moves often come from old wallets. Every time there is a price bottom or top, someone is bound to transfer some amount of bitcoins and everyone will start talking about it. But I don't think it means anything. It sounds as ridiculous to me as the 0666, 0777 or 0888 transaction theory. I don't see any manipulation in it.

Anyone who is holding bitcoins won't sell them for so long, and won't dump them altogether in the market. Secondly, fundamentally nothing is changed in bitcoin.
Bitcoin price is volatile and old investors already know it. The price will never be a reason for them to dump the coins when they know that bitcoin will reach another all-time high.

the old holders will only hold back until their ultimate target is achieved. Before the main target is achieved they only look at accommodating bitcoins that are sold in the market at a cheap price. 5,000 BTC is still relatively small, there are many more bitcoins on hold. when they start selling some of the bitcoins they hold, maybe the crypto market will get a little shaken up.

[o_e_l_e_o]

the limit should be unlimited. if someone has already pay taxes on money they put into bitcoin, why should they have to pay taxes on it again? eventually the government wins and gets everything.

I do agree. As nullama has pointed out, with bitcoin you are paying capital gains tax on your profits as measured in USD, at least in the US anyway. And you can claim tax relief on your losses. But all that hinges on the fact the IRS treats bitcoin as an asset. It would be far better to treat bitcoin as what it is - a currency - at which point these taxes don't apply.

However, we will have much more success in excluding small value transactions from these ridiculous tax laws in the first instance than trying to exclude all transactions.

[Henrobakkara]

Such moves often come from old wallets. Every time there is a price bottom or top, someone is bound to transfer some amount of bitcoins and everyone will start talking about it. But I don't think it means anything. It sounds as ridiculous to me as the 0666, 0777 or 0888 transaction theory. I don't see any manipulation in it.

Exactly. Is there not supposed to be activity in the network? should all Bitcoins just remain in the wallets for the value to continue to rise? I believe people overreact when such wallet movement happens like the market is going to crash, I would have said if this happened when the market was at ATH, meaning someone wants to dump but I don't see that here.

[larry_vw_1955]

They are different taxes though. You never pay tax twice.

When you receive money from work, you pay income taxes.

Money just changes hands from one person to another. Everytime that happens, it gets reduced by the amount of taxes that has to be paid which means the government is reposessing that money over time. If you take $1000 and follow its path from person to person, you'll see that over time, it goes to 0 because of taxes being taken out of it every time it changes ownership. And eventually that $1000 is all gone.

some people may say that is fine. but i kind of think like once taxes are paid on that $1000 then taxes should never need to be paid on that particular $1000 ever again. just my opinion.
 

If you buy Bitcoin with that money and then immediately sell at the same price (let's ignore exchange fees for now) you don't have to pay any more taxes.

You only pay taxes when you sell Bitcoin (or any other asset) at a higher value than what you paid for it. That's capital gains tax. You're paying on the extra money that you have.

You only pay on the extra money, not the initial one that's already taxed.

You can have unlimited capitals gains and taxes on them but you can't deduct unlimited capital losses you can only deduct $3000 per year no matter how much you lost. so its not a fair thing. even with carryover rules, etc. still not fair.

[Piesel]

Old addresses with a lot of funds are not that big a deal. If they have 1 like that they probably have more.

Not something to worry about the trading volume of BTC is on the order of 1.5 million coins a day. Having a few thousand more dumped into it is not something to worry about.

-Dave

We have seen this many times before and we will see more of this going forward, old Bitcoin wallets will keep on transacting because you don't expect them to leave their Bitcoin dormant forever, as most people who hold Bitcoin way back have a long-term goal to it some may place 10 years holding plans other can also have 20-year holding plans to at whateverr time the owner feels comfortable to move their Bitcoin around it's the choice and their money and it is sure ther made huge profits already considering the entry time and price.

5,000 bitcoins is not that huge to create any panic or discussion here, 1.5 million Bitcoin are traded daily and that is enough volume to accommodate any old wallet balance whenever their get offloaded into the market. I don't panic when I see such old. wallet balance movement only newbies do that and as for old members who are already experienced with such actions, I can only get excited that at least the dormant long abandon wallet is still active and that gives us the chance to take hold of then if the wallet owner injects those Bitcoin into the market, but at the moment we can't confirm if the Bitcoin we're transferred to an exchange wallet or a privately own cold wallet.

[o_e_l_e_o]

but i kind of think like once taxes are paid on that $1000 then taxes should never need to be paid on that particular $1000 ever again. just my opinion.

Which would result in tax revenues falling to zero unless there was a steady stream of new money being printed and entering circulation, leading to excessive inflation.

so its not a fair thing. even with carryover rules, etc. still not fair.

It's not fair at all. Which is why bills to exclude any amount of bitcoin from this system should be supported.


These early wallets moving, while causing a bunch of newbies to panic, obviously didn't affect the markets that much since the price of bitcoin is up 20% over the last week or so.

[Ivartheragnarson]

i think it's nothing to consider. everyone have their right to move their bitcoin among where they wish. bitcoin was created for that , not for holding in a wallet. bitcoin can be used as money. so people use it as money.

[Webetcoins]

We have seen this many times before and we will see more of this going forward, old Bitcoin wallets will keep on transacting because you don't expect them to leave their Bitcoin dormant forever, as most people who hold Bitcoin way back have a long-term goal to it some may place 10 years holding plans other can also have 20-year holding plans to at whateverr time the owner feels comfortable to move their Bitcoin around it's the choice and their money and it is sure ther made huge profits already considering the entry time and price.

5,000 bitcoins is not that huge to create any panic or discussion here, 1.5 million Bitcoin are traded daily and that is enough volume to accommodate any old wallet balance whenever their get offloaded into the market. I don't panic when I see such old. wallet balance movement only newbies do that and as for old members who are already experienced with such actions, I can only get excited that at least the dormant long abandon wallet is still active and that gives us the chance to take hold of then if the wallet owner injects those Bitcoin into the market, but at the moment we can't confirm if the Bitcoin we're transferred to an exchange wallet or a privately own cold wallet.

I agree that it is not really a big deal to see these wallets moving, and people who are overreacting to these are the same people who sell their coins anytime there is a bad news. I would say that do not make any moves or trades based on what you have seen in the market, that doesn't make sense to me, if you are going to make any changes then you should make those changes based on what the fundamentals show and not what the daily news or media is putting out. Wallets move all the time, it is a common thing, even 5000 btc moving is common these days if you look at the big wall street companies like microstrategy, that is why we shouldn't be really shocked about it at all.