5,000 BTC from Satoshi-Era Wallet Moved

[BlackHatCoiner]

They don't have to be able to control bitcoin. All they have to do is make laws regarding its use.

They can put pressure to its usage, sure. But, they don't control the protocol, which is what I meant.

The OFAC could just as easily come out and say US persons and entities are prohibited from using bitcoin.

Authorities can come out and say whatever the hell they want. If there's demand & supply for something, there will also be a market for it. Prohibitions might threaten some citizens, similar to media's FUD if you think about it, but the fact remains: It's an unstoppable currency that satisfies a need which can't be satisfied otherwise. Some people will always use it, same as they use drugs regardless of being illegal or not.

What you gonna do then? Become a law breaker?

Perhaps.

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[larry_vw_1955]

What you gonna do then? Become a law breaker?

Perhaps.

well then you would be the exception rather than the rule. just don't let your bank know what you're up to or any close friends since they might rat you out. in fact, just keep it a secret from everyone and make sure to use a vpn or two here on bitcointalk.

[DaveF]

That's all they would need to do. Bring ID to the bank and pay the cashiers check fee. Everything has a fee for sending, even bitcoin.

So I have to go to the bank, prove who I am, have my ID checked, have the cashier produce a check, have it signed, have it countersigned, send it to the other person, they have to take it to their bank, have it checked by their bank, arrange with yet more third parties to actually transfer the funds, the list goes on. That's a lot of third parties who need to agree to the process, any one of which could decide to deny my request.
[/quote]

Only if you are looking to get cash or cash equivalent. One of my clients routinely logs into online banking and sends out 7 figure payments to people.
Needs a 2FA dongle thing and a username & password and can ACH money in 5 minutes and it's in the recipients account later that day. Wire transfers around the world are the same.

If I had it I could do $500k without even calling my bank, I remember laughing when they said that was my limit. I'm just $495k short of that at the moment so I can't really test it, but when my friend sold and then bought a house there were no checks or anything else. All online and both transactions were in the hundreds of thousands.

-Dave

[CryptoHeadlineNews]

I can assure you that if he want to move his Bitcoin to another address for security or for selling, he will definitely inform  me first with a signed message. Now you are going to say, "who do you think you are ? Are you Satoshi's  twin brother ? "  Well, I am the only Digital Monk here in the  Bitcoin Talk Forum.

Please can you stop joking all the time with your useless threads and post @ Digitalmonk, what do you actually mean by if Satoshi wants to move his Bitcoins he will first have to contact you. Who do you actually think you are? Are you the holder of his wallet password or passphrase? Or on what ground do you think he has to contact you? Because I really think the psychiatrist hospital for monk would have actually been a better place for you than here on this forum.

[o_e_l_e_o]

That's how it is supposed to be apparently. The government makes it hard to transfer larger amounts. And you're at the mercy of banks.

This is precisely what bitcoin solves.

And don't try and "structure" your transactions because that will be against the law too.

It already is. If you use bitcoin through a centralized exchange, you are already at the mercy of the government.

Because you wouldn't want the government knowing you cashed out some bitcoin.

Even if you receive fiat directly in to your bank account when trading bitcoin peer to peer, the government just sees a transfer from one private individual to another. It doesn't know that any bitcoin changed hands.

Only if you are looking to get cash or cash equivalent. One of my clients routinely logs into online banking and sends out 7 figure payments to people.

Doesn't mean it isn't being checked, even if by some automatic algorithm at his bank. And if something flags up, you can guarantee that payment is being put on hold while the bank investigate. This is simply not possible with bitcoin.

[larry_vw_1955]

That's how it is supposed to be apparently. The government makes it hard to transfer larger amounts. And you're at the mercy of banks.

This is precisely what bitcoin solves.

It certainly does that. We've seen the government trying to make rules up but nothing to really stop people from transferring large amounts of bitcoin. I just don't think the US government will allow it to go on forever though. Not for US citizens anyway. But that's just an opinion. But they force everyone filing a tax return to answer questions about if they received crypto during the year. I'm sure those reporting requirements will grow more onerous over time such that one day you'll have to answer whether you sent any crypto or whether you own any and then how much of each type of crypto and please list the wallet addresses etc. it will just get worse.

And don't try and "structure" your transactions because that will be against the law too.

It already is. If you use bitcoin through a centralized exchange, you are already at the mercy of the government.

And possibly even worse, at the mercy of the centralized exchange!

Because you wouldn't want the government knowing you cashed out some bitcoin.

Even if you receive fiat directly in to your bank account when trading bitcoin peer to peer, the government just sees a transfer from one private individual to another. It doesn't know that any bitcoin changed hands.

But if the amount of large enough, that will begin an investigation possibly where they try and find out all the details and reasons why this individual is receiving a large amount of cash into their bank account, same as if you walked in and tried to deposit it in person. As far as the bank and government are concerned they don't know where the money came from so they possibly assume the worst, that it comes from illegal things.

We have to remember that at least in the USA, when it comes to matters like these, people CAN BE treated as guilty until proven innocent.

[noormcs5]

5000 BTC from Satoshi-Era Wallet Moved, maybe 3 More Wallets Wait to Send Bitcoin as they have the same origin ~21000 BTC.

To be very transparent, there is a limited bitcoin supply and even if lot of bitcoins are moved from old addresses, there is nothing to panic about. We do not need to speculate anything. Moving bitcoin could means that bitcoin may have changed hands and that's it. Bitcoin supply hasn't increased due to this, right , wo why getting panic ?

Also i see people getting worried about the Mt gox bitcoin distribution will cause big selling, agree there can be selling pressure for some time but then again bitcoin will move from mt gox weak hands to strong holding hands and total bitcoin supply will remain same. The demand for bitcoin wont be less. 

[o_e_l_e_o]

I just don't think the US government will allow it to go on forever though. Not for US citizens anyway.

I agree, and the mandatory question right at the top of Form 1040 is just the beginning. No doubt the government will want full self-reporting of every wallet address you control in the future. But the fact remains - if you fail to comply with fiat regulations, then the government can take your fiat out your bank accounts with ease. If you fail to comply with bitcoin regulations, the government can't take anything unless you hand it over to them.

Moving bitcoin could means that bitcoin may have changed hands and that's it. Bitcoin supply hasn't increased due to this, right , wo why getting panic ?

Because some people wrongly assume that any coins which has not moved in 5 or 10 years is "lost" and therefore removed from the supply, and therefore any coins which have been dormant for this long and then "wake up" again are effectively inflating the current supply. This is obviously nonsense, as has been proved many many times in the past. The only coins which can be removed from the supply are those which are provably lost or burnt, and those coins number a few thousand at most.

[virasog]

Because some people wrongly assume that any coins which has not moved in 5 or 10 years is "lost" and therefore removed from the supply, and therefore any coins which have been dormant for this long and then "wake up" again are effectively inflating the current supply. This is obviously nonsense, as has been proved many many times in the past. The only coins which can be removed from the supply are those which are provably lost or burnt, and those coins number a few thousand at most.

Even if no coins are lost, still the bitcoin supply is very less and limited and if the demand grows, the price will rise significantly. However, there will be constant loss of bitcoins as people might forget their passphrases and some bitcoin holders might die too without telling their keys to anyone, and a lot of other reasons.

[casinotester0001]

Again another 5000 BTC moved:

Address: 18xGHNrU26w6HSCEL8DD5o1whfiDaYgp6i

txid: 4e51e9c29620f676e49e4a3670be158fa626866c032b46a2a2ee254c861604c6

4/Sep/2022 8:50 PM UTC

[aysg76]

Because some people wrongly assume that any coins which has not moved in 5 or 10 years is "lost" and therefore removed from the supply, and therefore any coins which have been dormant for this long and then "wake up" again are effectively inflating the current supply. This is obviously nonsense, as has been proved many many times in the past. The only coins which can be removed from the supply are those which are provably lost or burnt, and those coins number a few thousand at most.

The owners that have lost the keys are actually out of circulation at this time but anytime they remember the password the coins can be back into circulation and increase the supply so there is difference in these terms.As per report there are over 4 million coins lost but actually they have not the password and keys with them.

The actual coins lost are the one's which are send to OP_Return command as they can't be retrieved at all and are out of circulation.Those who are dormant address can wake up again anytime and move huge amount of bitcoin with them in transactions like you have seen.So this is reality we need to understand.

[o_e_l_e_o]

The owners that have lost the keys are actually out of circulation at this time but anytime they remember the password the coins can be back into circulation and increase the supply so there is difference in these terms.As per report there are over 4 million coins lost but actually they have not the password and keys with them.

This is not an accurate statement. There are plenty of reasons that coins might not move for 5 years or more that do not include the owner losing the keys.

The actual coins lost are the one's which are send to OP_Return command as they can't be retrieved at all and are out of circulation.

There are actually a few other ways that coins have been provably lost, which I have previously outlined here and here. Still, the number of provably lost coins is in the region of 2,823 BTC, and certainly nowhere near the 4 million that some people speculated.

[EdenHazard]

It seems so easy for those whales to shake the market in uncertainity.

Simply moving the coins! Especially the dormant one! So you can get more bitcoin in these bearish run. Crazy to speculate that those thousands of bitcoin are going to dropped in the market all at once.
Too much possibility with really limited sources to reveal the fact , bitcoin transacted decentralized so yeah who knows.

[DaveF]

It seems so easy for those whales to shake the market in uncertainity.

Simply moving the coins! Especially the dormant one! So you can get more bitcoin in these bearish run. Crazy to speculate that those thousands of bitcoin are going to dropped in the market all at once.
Too much possibility with really limited sources to reveal the fact , bitcoin transacted decentralized so yeah who knows.

Yet again I am saying the same thing that people refuse to understand. But one more time people.

The volume of BTC <-> USD / USDT / other 'stable' coins is on the order of $7 BILLION dollars a day at a minimum. There is about another BILLION dollars a day in BTC <-> alts.

If they dump it all at ones it's adding $100 million to the pot. Yes it MIGHT move the value SLIGHTLY. BUT MOST PROBABLY NOT.

Depending on who you ask / where you look there is probably close to another 10% in trading not being shown in the $7 billion number due to OTC and other places that are not being reported in the CMC / coingecko type places.

-Dave

[larry_vw_1955]

I just don't think the US government will allow it to go on forever though. Not for US citizens anyway.

I agree, and the mandatory question right at the top of Form 1040 is just the beginning. No doubt the government will want full self-reporting of every wallet address you control in the future.

Which is why it probably won't be worth being involved in crypto for usa residents. That's just being honest. The small profits you might make will certainly be outweighed by all the reporting requirements. I mean they almost already are. You have to file capital gains tax forms and pay too! Plus make declaratiions. And then if they don't believe you, you might get audited on your crypto! So much for bitcoin being semi-anonymous then. you're gonna hand over every address you control to them then so they can see EVERYTHING.

But the fact remains - if you fail to comply with fiat regulations, then the government can take your fiat out your bank accounts with ease. If you fail to comply with bitcoin regulations, the government can't take anything unless you hand it over to them.

In that case, hopefully other prison inmates accept bitcoin and you can have a way of sending it to them inside the joint. a good use case for brainwallets ...?

[o_e_l_e_o]

The small profits you might make will certainly be outweighed by all the reporting requirements.

I don't think this is true at all. If you simply buy and hold, then the reporting requirements are not onerous at all (or indeed, non-existent until you sell or trade your bitcoin), and you will make a much better profit buying and holding bitcoin for 10 years than you will holding rapidly inflationary USD. There is also a bill kicking around Congress which would exempt all bitcoin transactions under $200 from tax, which would mean bitcoin can be used as a daily currency for the majority of people without having to worry about tax reporting.

In that case, hopefully other prison inmates accept bitcoin and you can have a way of sending it to them inside the joint.

There are many scenarios in which someone is not a prisoner but still has their assets frozen by the government. Recent examples include loads of private Russian citizens around the world, and a bunch of Canadian and US citizens who donated to the Canadian trucker protest. Bitcoin solves this.

[larry_vw_1955]

There is also a bill kicking around Congress which would exempt all bitcoin transactions under $200 from tax, which would mean bitcoin can be used as a daily currency for the majority of people without having to worry about tax reporting.

yeah i heard about that a while back but i think they put it on the backburner and it'll probably be forgotten. probably for good reason too since people would just structure their purchases and send multiple amounts for under $200 which add up to the total purchase price. easy to do with bitcoin. taxes evaded.

[o_e_l_e_o]

probably for good reason too since people would just structure their purchases and send multiple amounts for under $200 which add up to the total purchase price. easy to do with bitcoin. taxes evaded.

Not any easier than to do the exact same thing with cash, and in fact, far more difficult since there remains a permanent and immutable record of the fact you have done this. Centralized exchanges and payment processors would very quickly report you even if you tried to do this.

I actually think the limit should be higher, maybe in the region of $1,000, especially over time as bitcoin continues to gain value against the rapid inflation of the dollar. But better to get a low limit passed first and then work on increasing it.

[fzkto]

Such moves often come from old wallets. Every time there is a price bottom or top, someone is bound to transfer some amount of bitcoins and everyone will start talking about it. But I don't think it means anything. It sounds as ridiculous to me as the 0666, 0777 or 0888 transaction theory. I don't see any manipulation in it.

[gunhell16]

According to his tx id, he already had 5000 BTC in his wallet in 2013, after 9 years on the month of August 29, 2022,
he took it out according to the picture you see.

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But the next day August 30, 2022, he withdrew bitcoin again in the amount of 5001btc which is the same year, month,
and the bitcoin was received.



It turns out that only one person did it and the total amount of bitcoins he released immediately in consecutive days is 10k bitcoins,
which if we change it to dollars at the current price of bitcoins, the total is more than 210M$.