No doubt POS is centralized

[TastyChillySauce00]

some people this is good news because they think that the merge of ethereum into POS makes gas costs drop drastically but on the other hand it is unfortunate that the characteristics of ethereum as a decentralized project are lost. maybe in a long time we will not recognize ethereum as a perfect decentralization.

that's obviously true if those people didn't even understand nor read all of proposal. There are so many dumb investors in the crypto where they believing with what others said. There would be no upgrade for scalability and that's very well explained in the proposal.
I think that so many cryto investors need to see themselves. they are too lazy to read simple proposal. This is urgent for the crypto investors. that shows if they are really dumb

[AnonBitCoiner]

ETH is now centralized. 46% of ETH belongs to Coinbase and Blackrock.  They can dumpt it whenver they want . Also its handeled by Amazon servers. They can shut it down wheneve they want. This reminds me of the Canadian Cannabis stocks when a new law would pass or license granted. Meant absolutely nothing. Fodder for the sheep.

[Xal0lex]

It seems the major concern about Proof of stake that experts here warned about has begin to see the light.
According to cointelegraph, 40% of ethereum nodes are controlled by two addresses which are Lido and Coinbase.
This has just proven more that POS is not decentralized and favours investors with higher token supply
source

There is no decentralization in PoS, and never has been. This is a big myth, which is imposed on us by developers of such coins and those who actively promote them in the network. It has been noticed more than once that when some PoS coin votes, 90% of addresses belong to one or several addresses. What kind of decentralization with such distribution of coins and votes can we talk about? ETH became just as centralized after the merger. More than 50% of the network validators are owned by a few large companies.

[beerlover]

ETH is now centralized. 46% of ETH belongs to Coinbase and Blackrock.  They can dumpt it whenver they want . Also its handeled by Amazon servers. They can shut it down wheneve they want. This reminds me of the Canadian Cannabis stocks when a new law would pass or license granted. Meant absolutely nothing. Fodder for the sheep.

They can't "dump" it, the money is there but it doesn't belong to them. If they sell all their ETH and then people ask their ETH back, then what? Or if they sell and people sell there as well and there is a financial difference? How are they going to pay for it, out of pockets? What do they gain from it as well? Shorting ETH to make a profit?

I think we need to think this through, and it looks like there is no reason for them to do anything illegal, because if they use others ETH to sell and dump the price, they are located in the USA and SEC would destroy them, not only they will be given a penalty worth tens of millions of dollars, there will be jailed people as well. Doesn't make sense to me at all.

[ololajulo]

And those two addresses if their stake their ethereum in the network pool then there can control the transaction, that is the irony of the whole situation, the proof of stake network will only make ethereum more centralized and control is given to the big bag holders in the network.

We will see more of these kinds of addresses that are contending to control the network popping up as time goes on because coinbase is an exchange so other big exchanges like Binance will join the list of ethereum holders competing for control of the network pool.

this is the second thread on the forum discussing this topic. Is this from other top coin maximalist. Ethereum is unlimited in mining although other idea now make it deflationary. However, the 40% held by the 2 exchanges are less than 5% of the whole market, so it means the percentage is significantly high to dictate the price and other decision of the coin. This staked portion does not look like it can be moved they can only benefit in the reward

[Abiky]

There is no decentralization in PoS, and never has been. This is a big myth, which is imposed on us by developers of such coins and those who actively promote them in the network. It has been noticed more than once that when some PoS coin votes, 90% of addresses belong to one or several addresses. What kind of decentralization with such distribution of coins and votes can we talk about? ETH became just as centralized after the merger. More than 50% of the network validators are owned by a few large companies.

Exactly. PoS is utter centralization at its core. It enriches whales (mainly exchanges, big companies, and wealthy investors), while leaving the little guy out of the system. ETH made a bad decision by pleasing the regulators instead of the community. Now it's going to pay big time as centralized exchanges gain control of all of the network. ETH will now become an easier target for mainstream governments who'd want to censor people's ability to participate in "De-Fi" and gain financial privacy.

Instead of switching to PoS, ETH should've switched to a hybrid consensus mechanism (PoW + PoS) that would help preserve decentralization/censorship-resistance. Now it's ruined, so our only hope lies with Ethereum Classic as the original version of the ETH blockchain. No one knows what the future holds for crypto, so we can only hope for the best. Just my opinion

[bittraffic]

There is no decentralization in PoS, and never has been. This is a big myth, which is imposed on us by developers of such coins and those who actively promote them in the network. It has been noticed more than once that when some PoS coin votes, 90% of addresses belong to one or several addresses. What kind of decentralization with such distribution of coins and votes can we talk about? ETH became just as centralized after the merger. More than 50% of the network validators are owned by a few large companies.

Exactly. PoS is utter centralization at its core. It enriches whales (mainly exchanges, big companies, and wealthy investors), while leaving the little guy out of the system. ETH made a bad decision by pleasing the regulators instead of the community. Now it's going to pay big time as centralized exchanges gain control of all of the network. ETH will now become an easier target for mainstream governments who'd want to censor people's ability to participate in "De-Fi" and gain financial privacy.

Instead of switching to PoS, ETH should've switched to a hybrid consensus mechanism (PoW + PoS) that would help preserve decentralization/censorship-resistance. Now it's ruined, so our only hope lies with Ethereum Classic as the original version of the ETH blockchain. No one knows what the future holds for crypto, so we can only hope for the best. Just my opinion

It's really a wonder why Vitalik goes into this roadmap when of all people who has the knowledge of crypto and decentralization, he should have known.  Did he make some deals with SEC? Just wondering.

OP says 40% but I've read it's actually 60% in some chats. It wouldn't be surprising really to see ETH tokens are going to be censored, block,ed or frozen once they see a user supports something that they don't like.

[wxa7115]

It seems the major concern about Proof of stake that experts here warned about has begin to see the light.
According to cointelegraph, 40% of ethereum nodes are controlled by two addresses which are Lido and Coinbase.
This has just proven more that POS is not decentralized and favours investors with higher token supply
source

This is something the community has been warning against for a long time, but it seems that the ethereum developers simply do not care about it, now it is true a centralized network will bring benefits which a decentralized network cannot bring.

But without decentralization no coin can exist unless the governments allows it, so if at any point in time governments around the world decide they had enough with ethereum they will be able to destroy it without too much of a problem.

[Tessyb]

Having to bother about ethereum being controlled by few addresses isn't necessary to me because that's how the entire altcoin in the industry operates. Infact, it's no news that whales are the true determinants of the trends in the market. Even though the industry is said to be decentralized, we know that the decentralisation favours a few as they can control the market. I personally believe that reducing the cost and fees in the ethereum blockchain is more important than the centralization issue because it's been there all along.

[judaspriest]

PoS does look centralized, but rest assured PoS is also decentralized, it's just that there is only 1 condition,
that is to make an even distribution to holders, usually this is done by Staking, I know Ethereum PoS is currently controlled by Lido and Coinbase,
but if you search furthermore, Coinbase is certainly an exchange, so maybe the address is the result of a pool of addresses on Coinbase

[Xal0lex]

There is no decentralization in PoS, and never has been. This is a big myth, which is imposed on us by developers of such coins and those who actively promote them in the network. It has been noticed more than once that when some PoS coin votes, 90% of addresses belong to one or several addresses. What kind of decentralization with such distribution of coins and votes can we talk about? ETH became just as centralized after the merger. More than 50% of the network validators are owned by a few large companies.

Exactly. PoS is utter centralization at its core. It enriches whales (mainly exchanges, big companies, and wealthy investors), while leaving the little guy out of the system. ETH made a bad decision by pleasing the regulators instead of the community. Now it's going to pay big time as centralized exchanges gain control of all of the network. ETH will now become an easier target for mainstream governments who'd want to censor people's ability to participate in "De-Fi" and gain financial privacy.

I would say that the U.S. government could now take complete control of the entire ETH network. The first alarm bells are already starting to ring. The head of the SEC says that 44% of validators are located in the United States, which means that most of the validated transactions are American. In addition, the SEC wants to equate ETH to a security rather than a commodity and then the American securities laws will apply to ETH. The American government will block and confiscate any addresses at will and nobody will be able to object. This could kill the whole network, because it would be no better than the normal banking system.

[Abiky]

I would say that the U.S. government could now take complete control of the entire ETH network. The first alarm bells are already starting to ring. The head of the SEC says that 44% of validators are located in the United States, which means that most of the validated transactions are American. In addition, the SEC wants to equate ETH to a security rather than a commodity and then the American securities laws will apply to ETH. The American government will block and confiscate any addresses at will and nobody will be able to object. This could kill the whole network, because it would be no better than the normal banking system.

I've read somewhere that the majority of ETH nodes are hosted on Amazon Web Services. That's within US jurisdiction, so it's easy enough to disrupt the ETH blockchain by shutting down the service completely. The SEC already said PoS cryptocurrencies like ETH could be classified as securities, so there would be nothing stopping them from taking action against ETH if exchanges and other industry players don't comply with the law. It's a dangerous situation that could completely undermine ETH as we speak. So much for a decentralized platform for smart contracts aiming to bring "banking to the unbanked".

I don't get why Vitalik and team decided to push the PoS upgrade when they knew about the risks of centralization. It was nothing but a move to enrich themselves and the whales, while leaving the little guy out of the system. The future of PoS cryptocurrencies looks dark, so our only hope lies with Bitcoin as a PoW cryptocurrency that puts decentralization/censorship-resistance above all else. Who knows if 99.9% of the coins switch to PoS while only Bitcoin remains with PoW consensus? Just my thoughts

[Xal0lex]

I don't get why Vitalik and team decided to push the PoS upgrade when they knew about the risks of centralization. It was nothing but a move to enrich themselves and the whales, while leaving the little guy out of the system. The future of PoS cryptocurrencies looks dark, so our only hope lies with Bitcoin as a PoW cryptocurrency that puts decentralization/censorship-resistance above all else. Who knows if 99.9% of the coins switch to PoS while only Bitcoin remains with PoW consensus? Just my thoughts

Currently more and more coins are using PoS. PoW is already becoming a very unpopular and persecuted consensus. Various governments oppose PoW, make various dubious arguments in favor of PoS, even trying to transfer bitcoin to PoS. This trend has been rapidly gaining momentum since last year. If you take the crypto industry 8-10 years ago, there many popular cryptocurrencies were on PoW, and now on PoS. Cryptocurrencies have long been moving toward regulation and centralization.

[Sarah Azhari]

POS does look more like centralized. that's why I think a lot of people will switch from ETH to ETC. if you want to choose coins that have a POS system then I prefer BNB. but ETH is also good. but would not be a priority for me.
for some reason I prefer the POW system. because in POS we can only stake. and the beneficiaries are the largest holders.

we are talking about centralized not a good or bad token for investment. I admit when talking about another coin or token better to not invest where a coin comes near to POS or if you have to maybe not all in, half or 50:50. so if you think it's not profitable you can move at all to POW like another fork maybe, ETHPOW.

[shinratensei_]

POS does look more like centralized. that's why I think a lot of people will switch from ETH to ETC. if you want to choose coins that have a POS system then I prefer BNB. but ETH is also good. but would not be a priority for me.
for some reason I prefer the POW system. because in POS we can only stake. and the beneficiaries are the largest holders.

we are talking about centralized not a good or bad token for investment. I admit when talking about another coin or token better to not invest where a coin comes near to POS or if you have to maybe not all in, half or 50:50. so if you think it's not profitable you can move at all to POW like another fork maybe, ETHPOW.

I don't know why people are always thinking something is much more safer as investment rather than another thing caused by basically how safe the token or coin actually depends on the how developers are developing the token or coin.
I agreed with what you have said above just let him to move whole of his assets to the pow coin like ethereum pow. This ethereum was fake ethereum like when bitcoin being faked by so many bitcoin fork coin.

[Abiky]

Currently more and more coins are using PoS. PoW is already becoming a very unpopular and persecuted consensus. Various governments oppose PoW, make various dubious arguments in favor of PoS, even trying to transfer bitcoin to PoS. This trend has been rapidly gaining momentum since last year. If you take the crypto industry 8-10 years ago, there many popular cryptocurrencies were on PoW, and now on PoS. Cryptocurrencies have long been moving toward regulation and centralization.

It's all the governments' fault. They want to control Bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies by enforcing KYC/AML across every single centralized exchange. When they can't control trades performed directly on the Blockchain, they quickly attack crypto by saying it's "harmful to the environment". But the thing is Bitcoin can be as clean as any ordinary PoS coin if miners use alternative/renewable energy sources. If the vast majority of miners begin using solar, wind, geothermal, or even hydroelectric energy, then PoW would be environmentally-friendly.

This is nothing more than a plan for governments to push PoS in order to centralize the entire crypto/Blockchain space. Sadly, Ethereum fell for it by adopting the consensus algorithm. Other cryptocurrencies like Cardano, BNB, and even Polygon (MATIC) are PoS, so it should only be a matter of time before Bitcoin remains as the sole PoW cryptocurrency in the world. Even Zcash hinted the possibility of switching to PoS for "self-sustainability". I'm pretty sure whales will fill their pockets with a lot of money, leaving the little guy out of the system. What matters is that Bitcoin remains a PoW cryptocurrency to resist the evil forces of centralization. As long as it stays that way, no one will be able to stop it. Just my thoughts

[Uruhara]

Well it looks like POS is closer to a centralized system. although not completely centered. However, POS is more widely referred to as environmentally friendly. and it seems that Ethereum is switching to POS because they want to get support from the Government which is more supportive of the POS system that many say is more environmentally friendly. But I actually see that behind the environmentally friendly there is another agenda, which is easier to control because it is closer to a centralized system.

[Xal0lex]

Currently more and more coins are using PoS. PoW is already becoming a very unpopular and persecuted consensus. Various governments oppose PoW, make various dubious arguments in favor of PoS, even trying to transfer bitcoin to PoS. This trend has been rapidly gaining momentum since last year. If you take the crypto industry 8-10 years ago, there many popular cryptocurrencies were on PoW, and now on PoS. Cryptocurrencies have long been moving toward regulation and centralization.

It's all the governments' fault. They want to control Bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies by enforcing KYC/AML across every single centralized exchange. When they can't control trades performed directly on the Blockchain, they quickly attack crypto by saying it's "harmful to the environment". But the thing is Bitcoin can be as clean as any ordinary PoS coin if miners use alternative/renewable energy sources. If the vast majority of miners begin using solar, wind, geothermal, or even hydroelectric energy, then PoW would be environmentally-friendly.

This is nothing more than a plan for governments to push PoS in order to centralize the entire crypto/Blockchain space. Sadly, Ethereum fell for it by adopting the consensus algorithm. Other cryptocurrencies like Cardano, BNB, and even Polygon (MATIC) are PoS, so it should only be a matter of time before Bitcoin remains as the sole PoW cryptocurrency in the world. Even Zcash hinted the possibility of switching to PoS for "self-sustainability". I'm pretty sure whales will fill their pockets with a lot of money, leaving the little guy out of the system. What matters is that Bitcoin remains a PoW cryptocurrency to resist the evil forces of centralization. As long as it stays that way, no one will be able to stop it. Just my thoughts

The important thing is that bitcoin does not eventually break down in the face of government oppression. The government has two ways to fully control bitcoin:

1. Moves to PoS, controlling the blockchain, transactions and capacity, blocking and sanctioning any address. The perfect control tool. But there is a nuance here, a move to pos may kill all faith in bitcoin, so such drastic measures may turn out badly for the value of this asset.

2. The regulation of cryptocurrencies is being actively discussed. I recently came across another article where government officials are proposing to introduce KYC for bitcoin addresses. A nonsense that breaks all principles of cryptocurrencies and bitcoin, but it is already implemented. I read that in Dutch exchanges when transferring funds you have to give personal data not only of the sender, but also of the recipient. How do you like it? Alas, this is reality. This may take years or decades. After all, some 10 years have passed and now people are already more relaxed about KYC in cryptocurrency.

[Iyeman]

POS does look more like centralized. that's why I think a lot of people will switch from ETH to ETC. if you want to choose coins that have a POS system then I prefer BNB. but ETH is also good. but would not be a priority for me.
for some reason I prefer the POW system. because in POS we can only stake. and the beneficiaries are the largest holders.

we are talking about centralized not a good or bad token for investment. I admit when talking about another coin or token better to not invest where a coin comes near to POS or if you have to maybe not all in, half or 50:50. so if you think it's not profitable you can move at all to POW like another fork maybe, ETHPOW.

Fork coin was just a scam coin. POS is far better with fixed supply and token holders being considered more by the developers rather than when the coin was using POW. Miners are always doing collution in the POW coins. that's why i don't even like POW coins. POS is far better compared with POW coin. ETHW has proven if miners were always wanna creating scam coins to get fast money for them.

[globalpain]

Altcoins with PoS algorithms can indeed be said to be centralized but can also be said to be decentralized,
because if they have become coins and have a blockchain it will be difficult to say that they are centralized,
because I believe they have more validators.