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Author Topic: Bitcoin is permissable in Islam.  (Read 893 times)
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September 27, 2022, 01:33:15 PM
 #41

I've just recently watched wonderful Oxford debates of Islam vs Atheism, and I got the feeling that Islam is quite open to science, to technologies. While it's conservative in certain areas, IT is probably not among them because, given that there was no IT in the times of Quran, there are no restrictions on it either. I am happy that Islamic scholars investigated this matter and clarified that it's permissible to use cryptocurrencies. While I'm far from Islam, there are more than two billion Muslims worldwide, so it's a sort of decision and opinion that affects a huge number of people in the world.

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September 27, 2022, 02:02:49 PM
 #42

Islam does not prohibit someone from owning Bitcoin and the law is not in the Koran, unless someone uses it to gamble, sell people, buy alcohol, or lend bitcoins to people who need it, in order to make a profit, or what is called usury, it's actually simple if we compare it with real money sometimes it is also often used for extravagance, so back again it all depends on the person's use, if you use it wrong then it will be forbidden in Islam, but if it is used for charity or donating to an orphan then it will be a blessing for that person...

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September 27, 2022, 02:38:36 PM
Last edit: September 27, 2022, 03:05:59 PM by Pandu Geddon
 #43

Islam does not prohibit someone from owning Bitcoin and the law is not in the Koran, unless someone uses it to gamble, sell people, buy alcohol, or lend bitcoins to people who need it, in order to make a profit, or what is called usury, it's actually simple if we compare it with real money sometimes it is also often used for extravagance, so back again it all depends on the person's use, if you use it wrong then it will be forbidden in Islam, but if it is used for charity or donating to an orphan then it will be a blessing for that person...
Of course, nothing in the Quran mentions Bitcoin. but I believe some Islamic authorities will consider Bitcoin and other Cryptocurrencies from a more positive or negative point of view to the ummah as halal and haram considerations.

Islam will not oppose technological developments. as long as they will provide convenience and positive value for everyone.

unless someone uses it to gamble,
I personally, use Bitcoin for something that is forbidden in Islam, (gambling).
I know it's my bad habit. but I consider Bitcoin halal for Muslims. all that is lawful eventually can also become unlawful as you said. It all depends on the use.
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September 27, 2022, 09:42:16 PM
 #44

Many opinions have been expressed on whether bitcoin is halal or haram to Muslims. Following the Islamic jurisprudence, it is permissible for Muslims to use bitcoin as long as it is used legally and not for any other harmful purpose. According to Islam, bitcoin is viewed as a currency that can be traded and utilized for transactions.

Another question is why people save their coins in order to double them later for sale. When people see this, they assume it is illegal. Again, this can be observed from another viewpoint. Assume you purchased a plot of land for $100; after 10 years, the plot of land cannot be sold for the same price because the value must have increased by then, and it will be sold at its current worth. When the price of bitcoin doubles, it is permissible to sell and utilize it at the existing price.

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September 27, 2022, 09:49:56 PM
 #45

Many opinions have been expressed on whether bitcoin is halal or haram to Muslims. Following the Islamic jurisprudence, it is permissible for Muslims to use bitcoin as long as it is used legally and not for any other harmful purpose. According to Islam, bitcoin is viewed as a currency that can be traded and utilized for transactions.

Another question is why people save their coins in order to double them later for sale. When people see this, they assume it is illegal. Again, this can be observed from another viewpoint. Assume you purchased a plot of land for $100; after 10 years, the plot of land cannot be sold for the same price because the value must have increased by then, and it will be sold at its current worth. When the price of bitcoin doubles, it is permissible to sell and utilize it at the existing price.
There should really be reconsideration and not would really be making out absolute decision for it to be avoided specially on Religion like islam.I was aware it was halal
but i did make out some recent research that Bitcoin or crypto trading turns out to be haram.
https://aims.education/is-bitcoin-halal-or-bitcoin-haram/

So there are different perspective on here basing up on certain conditions but well its their religion and lets respect on that.

R


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September 27, 2022, 10:42:26 PM
 #46

I don't see why Bitcoin shouldn't be permissible in Islam. Those who want to make this case against it based on, "it depends on what Bitcoin is used for" should please spare us that loopsided opinion. If Bitcoin were (take note of my supposition as used in conditional term there) for illegal stuff, should that automatically rule out the other good side it has? Should that make Muslims reject using it? What about fiat? Don't we all know how criminals use fiat to perpetuate evil? Yet no one (no Muslim) has refused it. Why is that so?

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September 27, 2022, 11:03:43 PM
 #47

In my country, there are still some differences of opinion about whether Bitcoin or other crypto is haram or not. However, the Indonesian Ulema Council MUI) stated that this is haram for several reasons.

This may be almost the same as some of the debates as to why Bitcoin is legal and illegal. There are several positive and negative sides.

But for me personally, if we can control ourselves in Bitcoin, don't use it as money laundering or other negative activities, and be aware of what I'm doing so that I can control myself more so that I don't just invest at will and panic later, as long as I earn more. the positive side compared to the downside, why not?

R


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September 28, 2022, 04:57:54 AM
 #48

But for me personally, if we can control ourselves in Bitcoin, don't use it as money laundering or other negative activities, and be aware of what I'm doing so that I can control myself more so that I don't just invest at will and panic later, as long as I earn more. the positive side compared to the downside, why not?
As long as it's used for positive things, I think it's understandable. All this depends on the intentions of each, what Bitcoin is used for. If Bitcoin is used for investment media or daily trading for profit (in the positive category) it is allowed, because there is no element of crime there. But if on the contrary, Bitcoin is used for money laundering as you mentioned above or finance the activities of a group to do evil things, of course Islam strictly forbids it.

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September 28, 2022, 05:20:22 AM
 #49

The islamic countries have negative viewpoints on it and maybe consider it as gambling as it's strictly prohibited in their religion but they are not putting a direct ban on it's usage and you can still see people trading in crypto over these Muslim countries.

There might be some who differentiate on the basis of Halal or Haram but it depends on our actual usage like you are the one who will decide how to use it sp come does it end up in bad situation? It's another form of money only and you can't deny the fact.

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September 28, 2022, 06:39:35 AM
 #50

Forgive me for my ignorance

I would love to answer you. I am not a scholar. Not a Religion expert either. If there is any religious expert, Feel free to correct me. I will answer the last question First.

I seem to remember back in the day, the biggest lender here was Islamic and refused to participate in loans with an interest rate or anything with a direct return of dividends, etc.

Most Muslims from Arab, Africa, and Asia are Muslim by Born. Arab countries tend to follow Islamic rules hardly. There are a lot of restrictions if you follow all the rules (A lot of freedom too). Nowadays, many Muslims don't care about the rules of Islam. They don't participate in prayers. If you follow the rules, You should pray five times a day which only real Muslims do right now. If you follow the rules, You cannot drink alcohol. You cannot look at girls for the 2nd time (It is okay to see once by mistake). You cannot steal people's money. You cannot gamble. You cannot promote gambling. But, Only a few percent of Muslims follow all the rules of Islam. The rest of us are Muslim by the name only. We don't follow the rules. I am a Muslim. I know I am promoting a casino to get paid, and it's Haram. I believe the same kind of people exists in every religion. So, I respect that guy who tried to follow the rules because of his belief.


is Ethereum now frowned upon in the Islam community that Staking has become a part of their coin?

Every POS coins are Haram in Islam. Because Staking interests you, you had to do nothing except stake it somewhere. But, I don't think All Muslims will ignore ETH.

This also leads me to wonder, since the Lightning Network uses routing fees built into the protocol, is that also frowned upon in the Islam community?

My Answer is no because to power up the Lightning network. You had to spend utility bills, and you had to invest in buying hardware. It's a kind of service. If someone uses your service, they must pay a few service fees, which is okay in Islam.

If Bitcoin were to implement on-chain staking, would this affect its acceptance of it by Islamic people?

The same Answer as ETH. Yeah, It would be Haram, but Not All Muslims care about it. But I believe Bitcoin wouldn't be there if it were a POS coin. POS would make it centralized. You are an early Bitcoiner. I think you know better than me.

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September 28, 2022, 07:19:29 AM
 #51

if you look at cryptocurrencies, especially bitcoin,
Is it an investment or can it also be interpreted as buying and selling?
and from my experience, the system of buying and selling or investing in crypto, it is very safe, without interest, and the transaction is also very transparent or clearly visible,
and many great scholars also allow or legalize crypto,


and those who say crypto is haram, maybe he hasn't studied it yet, what is crypto,

because if you deepen crypto, it's a very good buying and selling system and investment

Therefore, there are many scholars who forbid it
because it may not be studied seriously.

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September 28, 2022, 07:46:49 AM
 #52

There's nothing wrong using BTC as a Muslim, and this post shows exactly that. OP has done a great job making this post. I'm from a Muslim country and people say that in Islam, what you can't see, that can't be a currency for trade purpose which is halal. But all I can understand that it's not coming from interest or free. You are exchanging money to get BTC.
So it is true that this is ok to use BTC from the perspective of Islam. Again, as OP said. Only Allah know's the best.
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September 29, 2022, 10:05:48 AM
 #53

It will depend on the users of Bitcoin. All over the world everything is used in two ways 'good and bad'. Same with Bitcoin. Now if you use Bitcoin for good deeds then it is permissible in Islamic disti. And if someone does bad things with Bitcoin then Islam will never allow that user. Because no bad act is permissible in Islam.

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September 29, 2022, 03:48:11 PM
 #54

The islamic countries have negative viewpoints on it and maybe consider it as gambling as it's strictly prohibited in their religion but they are not putting a direct ban on it's usage and you can still see people trading in crypto over these Muslim countries.
This vied problem claim about bitcoin as negative side consider gambling I think several of them not happy and agree with bitcoin become legal currency payment transaction or bitcoin as the way for investing assets. Less knowledge and not really understand yet about bitcoin seems several of them claimed bitcoin as kinds of gambling way, I don't know which one side of bitcoin have the same characteristic with gambling.

There might be some who differentiate on the basis of Halal or Haram but it depends on our actual usage like you are the one who will decide how to use it sp come does it end up in bad situation? It's another form of money only and you can't deny the fact.
In my country have final decision about Bitcoin Halal or Not depending kinds of transaction we used, our religion community have give final decision depend with government rule, using bitcoin as investment assets or used for trading still ability or halal, but when using bitcoin for legal currency transaction payment still not allowed because our government still not legal using bitcoin as payment currency.

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October 02, 2022, 04:06:25 AM
 #55

Bitcoins are not worth money. It is not something that has intrinsic value, or any value beyond what one would pay in it. It is a medium of exchange like any other cryptocurrency, and thus comes under the same rules as currencies.

Governments/Institutions that accept Bitcoin of course need to be careful with interest payment rules related to lending money to users. However, like anything else, Muslims must ensure that by using Bitcoin they do so in a lawful and permissible way to avoid mistakes in accordance with the terms and conditions of buying and selling in the context of Islamic law.

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October 02, 2022, 05:16:32 AM
 #56

Gambling is haram according to the Quran and Bitcoin could be considered gambling by some interpretations of crypto currency and its instability. I don't believe this to be true, but you can cherry pick whatever Islamic scholars you want and go with their subjective interpretation of Islamic readings. The more you go further away from the literal meaning of the text, the more subjective the interpretation is.

Islamic banking laws are also anti-interest so the technology, pricing, and buying and selling of cryptocurrency money is deemed halal by many Islamic scholars who rely on the teachings of Prophet Muhammad PBUH when seeking guidance about permissibility (ultimately, only Allah knows best).

If you're buying and selling cryptocurrency for profit, then it wouldn't be halal anymore. If I'm being brutally honest, crypto will only thrive in western cultures that are more willing to accept modern technology. The majority muslim countries that are more on the progressive end might take up Bitcoin, it will just take a while. The extreme Muslim countries (Iran, Pakistan) won't be doing so any time soon.
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October 02, 2022, 06:45:10 PM
 #57

...
Most Muslims from Arab, Africa, and Asia are Muslim by Born. Arab countries tend to follow Islamic rules hardly. There are a lot of restrictions if you follow all the rules (A lot of freedom too). Nowadays, many Muslims don't care about the rules of Islam. They don't participate in prayers. If you follow the rules, You should pray five times a day which only real Muslims do right now. If you follow the rules, You cannot drink alcohol. You cannot look at girls for the 2nd time (It is okay to see once by mistake). You cannot steal people's money. You cannot gamble. You cannot promote gambling. But, Only a few percent of Muslims follow all the rules of Islam. The rest of us are Muslim by the name only. We don't follow the rules. I am a Muslim. I know I am promoting a casino to get paid, and it's Haram. I believe the same kind of people exists in every religion. So, I respect that guy who tried to follow the rules because of his belief.
...


While reading your message, I remembered an interview that Zinedine Zidane gave to The Guardian years ago. Hahahah I'm behaviorally similar to you too.

Quote
and he describes himself as 'a non-practising Muslim'.
https://www.theguardian.com/football/2004/apr/04/sport.features



...
Turkey (like Thailand) banned the use of cryptocurrencies as a means of payment, but trading is still allowed. In addition, in the discussion, one member who was obviously from Turkey confirmed that many do not respect this ban and continue to accept cryptocurrencies (restaurants, shops...)
...

He may have tried to create an ideological target by keeping Türkiye and Afghanistan together, because the unsourced information he conveyed here is false data. Cryptocurrencies cannot be used only as a means of payment in Türkiye. Also, it is not a law subject to strict control.


...
I respect all religions, but I have not yet read anywhere or found out in any way that any other religion expressly forbids cryptocurrencies, except of course Islam, with which this issue has been associated for years.
...

Quote
Our possessions, he says, have two uses, proper and improper. Money too has a proper and an improper use; its proper use is to be exchanged for goods and services, not to be lent out at interest. Of all the methods of making money, “taking a breed from barren metal” is the most unnatural.
https://www.britannica.com/biography/Aristotle/Political-theory

In fact, dirty money (which is interest and its derivatives) is a humiliated behavior in other heavenly religions and in the ancient world. The ancient world was created by people of morality-virtue. There is no such thing as the concept of morality today. The best scammers are advertisers, the best thieves are banks; The system we call justice works for them.

Today, ordinary people like you and me, if we try to extort sovereign classes' money, we get an average of 20 years in prison.

Every year they take money from my bank account due to my credit card fee. They take money from my bank account without telling me. I say I want to cancel my debit card and after hours of discussion they send my money back. They do this every year. They take my money every year without informing me, but because they are sovereign class, the law does not accuse them of committing extortion. In the new world, justice works for the interests of the sovereigns.


...
I already wrote once before that I would seriously consider belonging to a religion that would limit me in what I would invest in or perhaps how I would dress.
...


The ancient world in the examples I listed above has lost all traces of it today. Maybe that's why Islam is somehow creating controversy about itself because, as you mentioned, there is a very strong system of cultural preservation.

Samuel Hutington also mentioned this in his book Clash of Civilizations. I partially agree with the criticism that "it supports the continuation of the West's colonial understanding of the East" about that book, but this religion is "a living civilization even though it is not breathing".

As Zygmunt Bauman said, if history does not have a linear flow, one day moral values will regain strength and the sovereign classes will not be able to oppress the poor as easily as they do today. We must accept that we do not live in a world created by morality-virtue people today. That's why it's so absurd to have such discussions, because they are civilizations that live without breathing. The debate about whether Bitcoin is haram or halal has no value today.

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October 02, 2022, 08:59:40 PM
 #58

Islam does not prohibit someone from owning Bitcoin and the law is not in the Koran, unless someone uses it to gamble, sell people, buy alcohol, or lend bitcoins to people who need it, in order to make a profit, or what is called usury, it's actually simple if we compare it with real money sometimes it is also often used for extravagance, so back again it all depends on the person's use, if you use it wrong then it will be forbidden in Islam, but if it is used for charity or donating to an orphan then it will be a blessing for that person...
Of course, nothing in the Quran mentions Bitcoin. but I believe some Islamic authorities will consider Bitcoin and other Cryptocurrencies from a more positive or negative point of view to the ummah as halal and haram considerations.

Islam will not oppose technological developments. as long as they will provide convenience and positive value for everyone.

unless someone uses it to gamble,
I personally, use Bitcoin for something that is forbidden in Islam, (gambling).
I know it's my bad habit. but I consider Bitcoin halal for Muslims. all that is lawful eventually can also become unlawful as you said. It all depends on the use.
for example i think of bitcoin or crypto as a knife.
if the knife is used to cut fruit, cut vegetables for cooking etc. that's fine there will be no problem.
but if the knife is used to kill people, it's obviously not good.
just like fiat money if we use it for something useful and help people who need it more we will get a blessing reward but if the money is used to buy drugs, buy alcohol, gamble and which includes violating Islamic religious rules it will clearly be haram.
so it's true what you say it all depends on us ourselves using crypto or bitcoin as a future stock asset or used for gambling. which is definitely more useful if used for future assets

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October 02, 2022, 09:09:18 PM
 #59

why bitcoin is always associated with religion, I think all religions will accept bitcoin.
It is natural when people associate Bitcoin with religion because people don't want to do something against religious values. They are trying to ensure whether using Bitcoin is allowed in their religions. I think it is understandable, nothing wrong with this.

In my country, some people stated that Bitcoin isn't allowed to use because of religious reasons. So, I think Bitcoin is accepted by all religions, is still debatable.

the problem is,  the government is afraid that its currency/means of payment will be replaced by bitcoin
and it all goes back to the individual in dealing with this
In my country, Bitcoin isn't allowed to be a payment tool because it breaks the law.
So, it is not always about the fear of the government, but it is sometimes related to the regulation of the country itself.


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October 02, 2022, 09:16:47 PM
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 #60

>snip
Halal or haram basically requires serious study from scholars or religious leaders. I have heard that it is permissible or lawful as long as both parties agree to make a transaction, the agreement is ultimately called a contract even though it is actually an exchange that makes it easier for both parties (if the transaction is carried out on an exchange).

However I can assert that bitcoin is prohibited from being used as a legal tender as long as the government prohibits it by law. This prohibition still applies in Indonesian jurisdictions, but one can use it in another country. In the end you can think that bitcoin is a medium, it is forbidden to use it in forbidden things in religion and lawful when it is not forbidden in religion. I believe in my religion and its laws, and I would not say haram as halal and halal as haram.

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