No more banner advertising: what's next?

[NotATether]

So I just read Theymos' post in the Auction board: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5407725.msg60976136#msg60976136 but it's locked so nobody can comment there, and it wouldn't bode well to start a discussion there anyway since you can't delete or edit posts there.

So, ads are not going to be auctioned away anymore. He did mention that you can privately contact him to buy some ad slots from him in the usual manner.

Seeing as this frees up a bunch of ad slots, what does Theymos think of advertising non-profit bitcoin sites?

I was thinking in particular about websites like bitcoin.org and perhaps my own website bitcoincleanup.com. Of course, as a prerequisite you must already have an HTML banner designed.

[Mbitr]

Seeing as this frees up a bunch of ad slots, what does Theymos think of advertising non-profit bitcoin sites?

I was thinking in particular about websites like bitcoin.org and perhaps my own website bitcoincleanup.com. Of course, as a prerequisite you must already have an HTML banner designed.

Do we really need ANY advertising? I for one would be more than happy for the forum to be ad free !

[NotATether]

Do we really need ANY advertising? I for one would be more than happy for the forum to be ad free !

I'm happier without commercial ads on this site, but some pro-Bitcoin initiatives could really use a boost in terms of outreach. I don't see a problem with that, considering we have a big "Lastest Bitcoin Core version" banner at the top of the page pointing to bitcoincore.org.

Like, let's go back to my own site for example (sorry about that).

Greenpeace has one million dollars to play with for smashing Bitcoin mining, while resisters have to pay for advertising from their own pockets. It's very expensive, considering that there is basically no website income to offset the costs. The result is that the facts don't get the reach they deserve (whereas the misinformation does because it is bankrolled).

[suchmoon]

Do we really need ANY advertising? I for one would be more than happy for the forum to be ad free !

Forum banner ads are unobtrusive enough so I don't mind them, especially considering the amount of signature ads.

[Mbitr]

Forum banner ads are unobtrusive enough so I don't mind them, especially considering the amount of signature ads.

Maybe signatures are to be banned next ? 

[_act_]

Maybe signatures are to be banned next ? 

No

Read what theymos talked about the reasons, not worth the time spent on it is there. To ban ads will not affect this forum traffic, but if signature is banned, there would be less traffic. Many people that supposed to be exposed to what bitcoin is properly will be unable to.

Signature campaign makes this forum to be lively too. Banning signature campaign is not possible because theymos will also consider others that are using it as an incentive.

[jackg]

Maybe signatures are to be banned next ? 

No

Read what theymos talked about the reasons, not worth the time spent on it is there. To ban ads will not affect this forum traffic, but if signature is banned, there would be less traffic. Many people that supposed to be exposed to what bitcoin is properly will be unable to.

I don't think Theymos would actually ban signatures based on what they've said in the past. They've mentioned scrapping the ad space below threads and I think there was hope demand would drop before then or it'd be less effort to implement that system.

The first topics where he mentioned stopping with the ad slots were years ago and perhaps this is a time where users enrolled in signature campaigns can determine what's promotable and what's scam/worthless.

Signatures remain a quite good way to distribute crypto to newbies and enthusiasts and to keep traffic here. There's also the argument that people might ignore the slots after a while so inserting new ones after a break might make them more noticeable to users. I can't find statistics on ad clicks either.


I wonder if we'll get some new factoids coming out though soon? I'd support a community based project on that too if we have things/need tor ank things worth advertising generated by forum members here.

[dkbit98]

Seeing as this frees up a bunch of ad slots, what does Theymos think of advertising non-profit bitcoin sites?

My conclusion from post theymos wrote earlier is that he is tired of doing everything manually, and even non-profit website can turn out to be shady or scam.
He would still need to manage non-profit stuff so I don't think he is willing to continue doing that, unless some moderator can do this job.
I think that funds people invested in forum ads so far will now move to signature campaigns.

I was thinking in particular about websites like bitcoin.org and perhaps my own website bitcoincleanup.com. Of course, as a prerequisite you must already have an HTML banner designed.

I am sure bitcoin.org won't e advertised here any time soon after they parted ways few years ago.
Not sure what will happen with other non-profit websites, but I would suggest adding Ninjastic website, BPIP website, or Loyce'v archiving website.
I support idea that bitcointalk should use some ad-network, or DT members could vote if ads should be allowed or not, problem is that DT system is currently not working correctly.

[PX-Z]

Forum banner ads are unobtrusive enough so I don't mind them, especially considering the amount of signature ads.

Maybe signatures are to be banned next ? 

Then we will see a huge decline of statistics ^{(posts, topics, replies, new users, merit, almost everything lol)} on the forum especially on the altcoin boards' where bounties are the most reasons why these newbies' registers.

We cannot deny it why the forum has this lively and a lot of discussion is because of these users who keep posting are those in paid signature campaigns.

[Upgrade00]

Do we really need ANY advertising? I for one would be more than happy for the forum to be ad free !

The sites paying to get slots certainly need the advertising, that's why they pay for the slots.
Does the forum need the revenue from paid advertising, I'll normally have said yes, but considering theymos is considering shutting it down, then maybe not.

While paid ad slots may not be that necessary, the incentives from signature campaigns goes a long way to keep discussions alive on the forum. Many of the discussions are spam, but even genuine, constructive conversations would slow up if there were no signature campaigns.

[Apocollapse]

Then we will see a huge decline of statistics ^{(posts, topics, replies, new users, merit, almost everything lol)} on the forum especially on the altcoin boards' where bounties are the most reasons why these newbies' registers.

IMO altcoins board activity are declining because there's few signature campaign paid with Bitcoin is forbid to post on altcoins board. Most of bounties right now are social medias campaign, so banning signature doesn't really make huge difference on bounties section.

I'd say Bitcoin discussion and Beginner & Help are become the new spam sections since there's many pointless thread created everyday.

I wonder if we'll get some new factoids coming out though soon? I'd support a community based project on that too if we have things/need tor ank things worth advertising generated by forum members here.

Good idea, especially for non-profit project like:
1. We are all Hodlonaut
2. https://bitcoincleanup.com
3. NotYourKeys.org - Community Contribution Avatar Campaign

[Agbe]

Do we really need ANY advertising? I for one would be more than happy for the forum to be ad free !

Yes, I believe we need advertisement because most of the local market traders do not know and do not aware of bitcoin. In my office, direct opposite a clothes and a provision seller ask me what is bitcoin because she saw it on the banner I sample on the street of my office. It was not only she that has asked me but many and I have explained to many as well.

And also for the forum. Let there be no restriction on signature and campaign posts. The restriction is making some boards redundant. Although I really do not know why the restriction was implemented. Well paying for ads slot is not too bad but not everyone who want to make advertisement have the amount, that is an another restriction on interested persons to add ads.

[mk4]

Do we really need ANY advertising? I for one would be more than happy for the forum to be ad free !

It's not that WE need advertising, it's the fact that Theymos would obviously want it. Let's not forget that Bitcointalk is still technically a centralized business owned by Theymos — which is totally fine, and I heavily support him!

[OgNasty]

Maybe signatures are to be banned next ? 

I wonder how much participation around here would stop if this happened. Do you think the folks chiming in everywhere with chipmixer signatures would keep posting? How many DT1 members would suddenly disappear? What about people selling coins and other products in the goods section… Would there be anyone left to buy? It seems like this forum is heavily reliant upon signature campaigns at the moment. This is what we built… I wonder if we’ll see even more signature campaigns and paid posters as a result of no legitimate means of advertising here now.

[examplens]

Maybe signatures are to be banned next ? 

I wonder how much participation around here would stop if this happened. Do you think the folks chiming in everywhere with chipmixer signatures would keep posting? How many DT1 members would suddenly disappear? What about people selling coins and other products in the goods section… Would there be anyone left to buy? It seems like this forum is heavily reliant upon signature campaigns at the moment. This is what we built… I wonder if we’ll see even more signature campaigns and paid posters as a result of no legitimate means of advertising here now.

I am sure that more than 50% (maybe the percentage is even more dramatic) of the activity on the forum is due to paid signatures. even in spite of that, some DT members or those who had almost secured a place in a better-paid campaign have left the forum. just to imagine how different it would be without stimulation through signature campaigns.

why not an advertisement?
many services gained significant momentum by advertising here. on the other hand, if the ads here are a burden, I believe that there are many Telegram and Discord groups, where it is possible to discuss freely without advertisements.

[OgNasty]

just to imagine how different it would be without stimulation through signature campaigns.

Wouldn't look any different to me. 

If you go into your profile and click the Look and Layout Preferences, you'll see a list of adjustments you can make to the forum.  One of the options is Don't show users' signatures.  If you click that box, suddenly the forum signatures no longer exist.  It does make it a little more difficult to tell who is commenting on something because they have legitimate input vs those who are getting their quota in, but if the signatures are bothersome it's worth it.  Especially once you've built up a good ignore list. 

[NotATether]

Good idea, especially for non-profit project like:
1. We are all Hodlonaut
2. https://bitcoincleanup.com
3. NotYourKeys.org - Community Contribution Avatar Campaign

Actually I think that will be perfect to start with for now - websites that improve Bitcoin's image.

We should make a small list of banner websites (small, so that there isn't an overwhelming amount of banner ads) and those three will do perfect.


I added a poll (but wasn't able to make it multi-option, sorry), so assume that Theymos has one banner spot he wants to allocate towards a nonprofit and vote accordingly.

[nutildah]

I am sure that more than 50% (maybe the percentage is even more dramatic) of the activity on the forum is due to paid signatures. even in spite of that, some DT members or those who had almost secured a place in a better-paid campaign have left the forum. just to imagine how different it would be without stimulation through signature campaigns.

I think its probably closer to 90% just going by how many posts have paid signatures underneath them. In theory sig campaigns should just be a bonus to people who were already posting anyway, and I think for some posters this still holds true. However, its pretty clear the vast majority are here just for the payday. This has led to an ingrained culture of shitposting-for-cash where genuine contribution is quickly buried beneath a flurry of dull, meaningless drivel. Most visitors who aren't already a member here aren't gonna wade through it to find the rare, interesting nuggets of information... they've effectively stopped coming here.

Similarweb Global Rank for Bitcointalk (taken from what is currently available and archived)

Sept 2022 - 35,390
Apr 2022 - 33,489
Jul 2020 - 24,833
Jul 2019 - 7,717
Jul 2018 - 2,671
Aug 2017 - 1,890
Feb 2016 - 7,762
Nov 2013 - 33,073

At the same time, there is no motivation to attract more traffic. As theymos recently explained, the forum is doing quite well financially. Bitcointalk really just has one purpose now and theymos has one job, and that is to make sure satoshi's posts remain accessible and in tact.

[Crypt0S0ul]

Bitcointalk really just has one purpose now and theymos has one job, and that is to make sure satoshi's posts remain accessible and in tact.

Wow! Interesting. But I am not surprised.
Even though this is the main goal of Bitcointalk, It's created many opportunities for thousands of people to make money and live their lives. This forum won't make money from ads if theymos doesn't accept offers. So, This is now purely dedicated to Satoshi and his posts only. Also, Some great people like Hal Finney and Laszlo Hanyecz.
@NotATether, What do you think about https://en.bitcoinwiki.org ?

[LoyceV]

Bitcointalk really just has one purpose now and theymos has one job, and that is to make sure satoshi's posts remain accessible and in tact.

You don't need a working forum for that, just archiving would be enough.

The forum's mission is (almost) unique on the internet:

the forum's mission to be as free as possible.

I don't know a single forum that offers the same level of freedom of speech as Bitcointalk.