Do You Want KYC at Crypto Casinos During Registration?

[Pmalek]

Source

Crypto casinos used to be places where it was possible to bet on sports and play casino games without undergoing KYC and identity verification. Players were allowed to preserve their privacy but still partake in gambling. But things aren’t always as they seem.

These platforms often advertise themselves as NO KYC, but are they really?

We are at a point where KYC requirements are being abused. Those active in the scam accusations board can probably remember many cases where players have complained about unexpected requests to verify their identities. This wouldn’t be a problem if the rules were explained and honored from the beginning.

What is happening with KYC that is so troublesome?

When you open a betting account, most casinos won’t ask you who you are.
When you want to deposit cryptocurrencies, you’re welcome to do so.
If you want to bet and play games, there usually aren’t any problems.
If you lose your coins and you wish to deposit more, no one asks you anything.
No one is called a cheater or a rule breaker when they are losing. There are no TOS infringements, either.

But if you start winning and win big, you soon become the center of attention. All of a sudden, it becomes important who you are, where you are from, the origin of your coins, and whether you have any ulterior motives for being here.

I believe many problems and misunderstandings wouldn’t happen if crypto casinos were transparent and upfront with their players from the start.

You wouldn’t be banned because you were gambling from a restricted location only after you win. That is if the casino had checked this and informed you that you aren’t allowed to gamble there the moment you tried to register. Your withdrawal request wouldn’t have been rejected because you are underage if the casino verified your legal age during your first deposit or before that.

The way the system is set up now, you are welcome to deposit and lose, but please don’t win. Because if you do, you could be thoroughly investigated.

My question to the Bitcointalk community is this one: if it were up to you, would you keep the current status quo and have crypto casinos brand themselves as no KYC, only to ask for identity verification during withdrawal requests or big wins, or would you rather be required to complete KYC during the registration process and decide there and then whether you want to do that or not?

Please submit your votes in the poll, and share your thoughts below.

[KennyR]

Majority of the gamblers have got used to it. Maybe one out of hundred makes a big win in gambling. So, this hasn't turned to be a big issue among the gamblers. In simple terms people have used to it. Majority have small wins and that doesn't require any KYC for the withdrawal. KYC at the time of registration will be a big blow to the gambling house, because gamblers prefer to stay anonymous.

[seoincorporation]

Great topic mate.

As you mention, a lot of users feels scammed by the current way that casinos works because they should ask for KYC before the user makes a deposit and not after that happens, because it looks like the casinos are using the KYC as an excuse to keep the users profit after a huge win, and this is a nasty move.

I don't like the KYC and i would like to avoid it. Some hours ago i was reading in the TOS of a new casino how they ask for pictures of both sides of your credit card as KYC, and that's really dangerous for the users because they are not exposing only their personal information... now they could lose the money from their bank account with carding 

[NeuroticFish]

Uh, it's... complicated (and I agree, great topic!)

KYC can be abused in many ways. Arguably a casino can start just collecting user info (and sell it, or get hacked). Like everywhere, KYC is dangerous to give - you don't know who will get it and what will do with it.
But KYC may be OK to become a standard. Indeed, a casino asking for KYC at start, or before the first deposit anyway, could look more legit.
On the other hand, as the things stand now, especially in crypto, I'd expect people will avoid the casinos starting like that, just because they prefer more privacy.

The result is, of course, that casinos don't need KYC.. until they do. Some scam accusations here and there, some crying and flexing the muscles, but people are already used to this. We're in some sort of gray zone everybody tends to be happy with.


So: it could be good, with some reserves, but it will probably not happen unless strongly enforced, since everybody seems more happy in the gray zone.

[ryzaadit]

I agree and don't mind doing that.

Especially for "CASINO" who asking KYC at the time we're registered and "BEFORE WE DEPOSIT" the fund. The problem we are facing is, some of CASINO is asking KYC at the time we're winning or after we deposit the money.

Another things for "KYC" problem: Source of Income & Proof of address in some third country not everyone have this, because most of us, still living in the family. I'm hoping to get a solution for this one, it's make a big problem for some people.

[iv4n]

As always, I will try to avoid it whenever I can, but if I need to do it I will. I don't want KYC during registration or later... it's not like I am running away from KYC, I just wish for less "papyrology"! I like it when it's easy and simple, without much hassle...

And I also think that KYC is being abused more than it contributes to stopping cheaters and scammers. Simply, it's so easy to bypass it, so what's the point!?

[darkangel11]

I wouldn't want any KYC at all, but there's no such option in the poll

If I have to choose, I'd prefer all cards on the table. Either you ask me for KYC at registration or never. Some casinos don't ask unless you're withdrawing big money, that's understandable but having low requirements for KYC and at the same time trying to cheat people calling yourself no KYC casino is pretty abusive.

[bitbollo]

We are at a point where KYC requirements are being abused. Those active in the scam accusations board can probably remember many cases where players have complained about unexpected requests to verify their identities. This wouldn’t be a problem if the rules were explained and honored from the beginning.

Most of these complaints are created by users that are using "radar betting" and they don't want go for a KYC.

Crypto users don't like KYC. I never completed for any ICO/promotion etc etc just in one exchange that is also linked with a bank account (HYPE).

The real problem with KYC is... who will receive my data? They are storing with professional way? I can really trust them?
Maybe "bigger" groups are really trusted but the small platforms? You will trust? If is possible I just avoid any site that is forcing in this process.

[BitcoinAccepted]

Many casinos that are required to undergo. I don't think they want it either, because they know that many customers do not enjoy this. However, most gamblers will not have a problem with this because everyone now understands and above all accepts that you have to cooperate with the KYC if you want a verified account and do not want to have any problems with your payouts. New sites that are anonymous may choose not to use KYC, but the older sites and gambling license sites will all request a KYC sooner or later.

[Hydrogen]

No one is called a cheater or a rule breaker when they are losing. There are no TOS infringements, either.

But if you start winning and win big, you soon become the center of attention. All of a sudden, it becomes important who you are, where you are from, the origin of your coins, and whether you have any ulterior motives for being here.

UFC President Dana White can share similar stories.

DANA WHITE
I WAS BANNED FROM GAMBLING AT VEGAS CASINO
... After $2 Mil Victory!!!

Dana White says he's gambler non grata at the Palms Casino in Vegas -- after the UFC boss kicked the casino's ass during a $2 million run just a few weeks ago.

White says the Palms gave him his "walking papers -- after crushing blackjack while playing $25k per hand.

White told the Las Vegas Review Journal's Norm Clarke the casino told White his limit was being cut all the way down to $5k per hand.

"I beat them for [nearly $2 million], and they asked me not to play anymore," White told Clarke.

"A lot of people are going to think I’m a card counter after that Ben Affleck thing at the Hard Rock. I’m the farthest thing from card counter."

It's the SECOND time White's been pushed out of the casino -- back in 2012, he broke ties with The Palms after the honchos cut his credit line in half. White boycotted the place for 22 months and says the only reason he went back is because he was wooed back with a case of expensive wine.

https://www.tmz.com/2014/06/02/dana-white-banned-gambling-palms-vegas-casino-2-million-victory-blackjack/

Joe Rogan said Dana White is banned from most casinos in vegas for being a consistent winner.

Around 2018 many casinos and gambling websites were bought out by wallstreet investors. That was when they began to crackdown more aggressively on winners in gambling.

Coincidentally it was also when judging in boxing and MMA began to become more controversial.

We were lucky to have that brief deregulated golden age of crypto gambling.

Maybe in the future it can be rebuilt by opening a casino in international waters or outside the borders of existing nations to escape regulation.

[Mahanton]

Whenever i do encounter KYC verification on the time i do make out registration then i do simply say "meh" and will find out another place for me to play without being asked like this.
There's soo much platforms in numbers who does that and thats more preferable because we do know that kyc is shit and we prefer anonymity.On the other hand, im already aware
of those current platforms who doesnt ask out kyc at first but possibly could be changed when you do make out big wins or withdrawals,this is where i do reconsider on complying
even i do hate it because if the money is significant then for sure all wouldnt really be hesitating on doing so.

[Boristhecat]

Leave the possibility of being asked for KYC when requesting withdrawals or after big wins.

For the obvious reasons you listed, this is not an acceptable option. In an ideal world, the player first goes through all the necessary procedures (including the KYC), and then gets the opportunity to play in the casino. If he has passed all the procedures, then there are no more additional checks and the withdrawal of funds is done automatically (even if your winnings are very large).
Unfortunately, we live in an imperfect world and players from time to time encounter the problems that you described, but reputation plays a role here. Experienced gamblers play only at reputable casinos, which means that these casinos will not use KYC against their client and in general for fraudulent purposes, only out of real necessity.

[wheelz1200]

That's the way it is, any big time site will have kyc.  But if you are looking for an answer to your question on the subject line, no.  Nobody wants to hand out more personal information than they need to.  If they give you a choice it's nope.  Rules and regs dictate the industry.

[FatFork]

Thanks for this great topic, Pmalek.

In addition to the KYC issues mentioned in your post, I have also noticed the emergence of unlicensed and unregulated online casinos that have KYC requirements in their terms of service. These online casinos have no legal rights to ask for personal information from gamblers. This is especially true considering that many countries have regulations such as the GDPR in place. In my opinion, this is a clear example of why it's important to be aware of the legal status of an online casino before depositing. However, there are a lot of gamblers who don't realize this and hand over their personal information without hesitation. This is where I believe that the problem lies. The casinos are clearly aware of this fact and use it to their advantage.

[South Park]

snip

My question to the Bitcointalk community is this one: if it were up to you, would you keep the current status quo and have crypto casinos brand themselves as no KYC, only to ask for identity verification during withdrawal requests or big wins, or would you rather be required to complete KYC during the registration process and decide there and then whether you want to do that or not?

Please submit your votes in the poll, and share your thoughts below.

This is a difficult question, without a doubt the most honest approach is to ask for KYC verification from the start, this way gamblers will know from the beginning this casino ask for that information and if they are willing to submit it they can do it now and if they are not willing they can refuse and simply move on and try to find a casino which refuses to do KYC, however I will not deny that something like this will be problematic for me as so far I have been able to avoid to verify to identify myself and such a thing will directly impact me.

[Baofeng]

I voted for: "Leave the possibility of being asked for KYC when requesting withdrawals or after big wins."

I understand that crypto based casinos are also being mandated by regulators or at least they are following the rules that KYC should be enforce. However, I would like to see casino just asking for it when you reach some threshold on withdrawal. Same on the 2 bitcoin limit on some exchanges that still exist. If it less than let say 1 bitcoin, then there should be no KYC to ask for it's players. But if it reaches 2 bitcoin withdrawal then users should have to undergo KYC. But in return the casino should get them answers in a day or 2 or at least 3 days max to see if they pass it or not.

[Fatunad]

Leave the possibility of being asked for KYC when requesting withdrawals or after big wins.

Its always been commonly on-site terms and conditions which they do have the rights on asking out whenever they do see some shady acts.
When you win big then there are casinos which doesn't still ask out for some verification and would withdraw all of the money you do had
without questions asked.We do hate KYC and this is where people dont like and much prefer on having no kyc.

[royalfestus]

I see a lot of reactions against KYC on this space everytime here and on social media but I consider wallet users to  be more secure in the use of KYC for moderation of withdrawal. It is reasonable to neglect security and it use on deposit of coin because they are not in the custody of the wallet owner. Howecr

[Johnyz]

It’s always good to know ahead of time that they are requiring KYC the moment you register with them than to experience later on a problem with your withdrawal because you didn’t fill out any KYC yet. If the site include this option at first, gambling can already decide if they will push the registration or go for other option which is a free KYC site. Personally, I’m fine with this and doing this upon registration is ok, at least they disclose this requirement honestly.

[Rruchi man]

My question to the Bitcointalk community is this one: if it were up to you, would you keep the current status quo and have crypto casinos brand themselves as no KYC, only to ask for identity verification during withdrawal requests or big wins, or would you rather be required to complete KYC during the registration process and decide there and then whether you want to do that or not?

The issue of KYC verification will always bring up an argument that some casinos have dubious characters and hiding behind the excuse of kyc to discourage customers from getting their money, while others will see the need to eliminate this constant arguments. I think it is best to have all casinos run kyc at the beginning registration process so that users of the platform they know exactly what they're getting into before they do to avoid funny stories later.