[2022-10-19] Europe to ban crypto mining this winter

[DaveF]

but how the government now if I mining cryptocurrency, I mean if i small home maybe they probably don't know what i am doing and if i am large player maybe they registered their company as data center right?

Small home miner they don't know and probably can't find out.
Larger home miner, they probably will not know what you are doing but if everyone else in your area uses X power and you use 2X power they know you are doing something.
If they care it's another matter.

It's the big data centers that are using megawatts of power, those are the targets, but as I said it's just because for the most part it's a easy target.
Can't go after Netflix / Amazon / Apple and so on for running older more power hungry equipment. Miners well they are simple to go after.

-Dave

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[SFR10]

but how the government now if I mining cryptocurrency, I mean if i small home maybe they probably don't know what i am doing

CMIIW, but by saying "small home", I think you were referring to those who live in apartments and the answer to your question depends on a few things... If you happen to be living in one, you shouldn't underestimate the power of your neighbors ^{[nothing stops them from reporting you, especially in apartments that have both thin walls and bad flooring (apart from the noise issues, there are also vibration issues and the one who lives beneath your mining room, might feel some of it)]}!
^{You might want to also refer to what @LeGaulois and @stompix posted with regard to overconsumption and continuous activities!}

[LeGaulois]

Small home miner they don't know and probably can't find out.

For a lot of us in Europe, they can. See my post earlier.

----

Looking to see if there is any news about this directive, I have observed at least a few people who are very enthusiastic, the environmentalists!
They even want to extend this limitation to the summer months, so forever.

Bad news for bitcoiners, apparently, it is not only a matter of trying to reduce the energy problem we are experiencing in Europe either, but it is also part of the process to reach the 1.5C Paris climate goal
Reminder, when Europe wanted to totally ban PoW cryptocurrency mining and allow PoS only? Look like, it's not their first attempt to stop the mining industry...

It was under the Markets in Crypto Assets (MiCA) framework (and the EU Parliament voted against it) but there is nowadays another opportunity under the energy crisis and the 1.5C Paris climate goal.

What could help us? The commercial competition with the USA started, to be as attractive as possible, knowing that the Americans are already one step ahead regarding mining since Biden signed a landmark executive order to ‘develop and use’ cryptocurrencies

Now adding a truth from someone

"The European Bitcoin mining market share is negligible compared to the rest of the world PRECISELY because of its INABILITY to source cheap energy from renewables, showcasing the incapacity of governments, officials and energy organizations to organize themselves to address this issue. Bitcoin mining cannot be held responsible for their incompetence,"

Interesting data from the Bitcoin Mining Council:
- BTC mining consumes 3.2% of the electrical system energy wasted in the USA.
- Bitcoin mining energy use is 0.142% compared to the world's total energy.
- 59% of miners use sustainable power (Brazil uses just over 2% renewable electricity).

[philipma1957]

Small home miner they don't know and probably can't find out.

For a lot of us in Europe, they can. See my post earlier.

----

Looking to see if there is any news about this directive, I have observed at least a few people who are very enthusiastic, the environmentalists!
They even want to extend this limitation to the summer months, so forever.

Bad news for bitcoiners, apparently, it is not only a matter of trying to reduce the energy problem we are experiencing in Europe either, but it is also part of the process to reach the 1.5C Paris climate goal
Reminder, when Europe wanted to totally ban PoW cryptocurrency mining and allow PoS only? Look like, it's not their first attempt to stop the mining industry...

It was under the Markets in Crypto Assets (MiCA) framework (and the EU Parliament voted against it) but there is nowadays another opportunity under the energy crisis and the 1.5C Paris climate goal.

What could help us? The commercial competition with the USA started, to be as attractive as possible, knowing that the Americans are already one step ahead regarding mining since Biden signed a landmark executive order to ‘develop and use’ cryptocurrencies

Now adding a truth from someone

"The European Bitcoin mining market share is negligible compared to the rest of the world PRECISELY because of its INABILITY to source cheap energy from renewables, showcasing the incapacity of governments, officials and energy organizations to organize themselves to address this issue. Bitcoin mining cannot be held responsible for their incompetence,"

Interesting data from the Bitcoin Mining Council:
- BTC mining consumes 3.2% of the electrical system energy wasted in the USA.
- Bitcoin mining energy use is 0.142% compared to the world's total energy.
- 59% of miners use sustainable power (Brazil uses just over 2% renewable electricity).

our mine has over 1000 panels of solar feeding it.

btc is how it got built.

[Kakmakr]

One of the by products of Bitcoin and Crypto mining is heat...

One of my friends in Europe are mining Alt coins with his GPU mining rig and the excess heat is used to heat his house. I know ASICS are not generating as much heat, but GPUs are running quite hot.... when you have a bunch of them.

What is the difference between a gamer that are running a massive gaming rig and a smaller Crypto miner running a GPU rig to mine Alt coins? (At least the heat from the mining rig are being used for something and it's paying for other expenses) 

Will they ban Gamers too, because they are using the same GPU's.

[SFR10]

What is the difference between a gamer that are running a massive gaming rig and a smaller Crypto miner running a GPU rig to mine Alt coins? (At least the heat from the mining rig are being used for something and it's paying for other expenses)  

Will they ban Gamers too, because they are using the same GPU's.

As a competitive gamer ^[somewhat] and a former miner, I do know for a fact that "sometimes" my GPU produces more heat in comparison with what I was getting back in the day for mining... It's also worth noting that I was using MSI Afterburner to slightly underclock my GPUs for the latter ^{[I'm doing exactly the opposite of it for gaming (to get the most out of it)]}. To answer your main question, I've never played continuously ^[24/7] and I'm pretty sure that's also the case with most gamers out there and that's the main reason why they can easily distinguish one from the other.

Update:

They produced less heat because you underlock them so they would also draw in less energy.

You're right... I should've been clearer that I was referring to my case only and not to everything in general ^{[my bad]}.

[stompix]

I know ASICS are not generating as much heat, but GPUs are running quite hot.... when you have a bunch of them.

This is impossible and it goes against the laws of thermodynamics.

A 300W GPU will produce the same heat as a 300W ASIC.
That electricity you feed both of them has to either go somewhere or transform into a different form of energy, in this case, heat. Asics and GPU are not different from each other when it comes to the principle of working, both have chips, both have transistors, and both have electricity running through them.

So, 4 Gpus rated 250W running at full throttle will create as much heat as 1 1KW Asic, and just as much as 1KW heater, with a tiny fraction of those in under the 1% going to be other kinds of energy, like light for example, as light bulbs did.

As a competitive gamer [somewhat] and a former miner, I do know for a fact that "sometimes" my GPU produces more heat in comparison with what I was getting back in the day for mining... It's also worth noting that I was using MSI Afterburner to slightly underclock my GPUs for the latter [I'm doing exactly the opposite of it for gaming (to get the most out of it)].

They produced less heat because you underlock them so they would also draw in less energy.
You can do the same for Asics, they all have this feature, but if you do in order to limit consumption you will also limit the heat released by the same percentage.
There is no way you can have two GPUs with different power consumption produce the same heat or the other way around, one producing more heat but with the same power draw.

[DaveF]

Small home miner they don't know and probably can't find out.

For a lot of us in Europe, they can. See my post earlier

We have had smart meters here for years.

I guess a lot depends on how much you electric really use vs other people.

Around here, you have some people [That would be me and Julie] in a small condo using more power then 4 people in a midsize house.
Admittedly we are energy hogs. But, our gas use is very very low. So overall it kind of balances out.

Taking away the converted S9 space heaters I was using, I still have a bunch of PCs, a file server, enough wireless equipment to talk to aliens from another galaxy, use the electric kettle and coffee maker a lot, still have not gotten around to replacing the old non efficient refrigerator and so on.

The family of 4 has 2 kids in school all day who then have after school activities and 2 parents that work. So they don't use a lot of power during the day and are using gas to heat the whole house when they get home. Once again, I was using an S9 to heat the back room and another one in the front room. So no gas there. We eat out a lot / get takeout so no cooking gas use, but microwave those leftovers......

If you are declaring the BTC mining income then it's another story.

Also, if you are running 3 S19 Pro units it's going to be a different then 1 underclocked miner pulling 2000w
At 2000W it's impossible to say you are running a miner vs. leaving on the TV all day with a 750 watt space heater and have not replaced old bulbs with LEDs At 10kW yeah, something is up.

At least around here, most home miners are small 1 possibly 2 miner setups. So could probably fly well under the view of most utilities.

-Dave

[Argoo]

One of the by products of Bitcoin and Crypto mining is heat...

One of my friends in Europe are mining Alt coins with his GPU mining rig and the excess heat is used to heat his house. I know ASICS are not generating as much heat, but GPUs are running quite hot.... when you have a bunch of them.

What is the difference between a gamer that are running a massive gaming rig and a smaller Crypto miner running a GPU rig to mine Alt coins? (At least the heat from the mining rig are being used for something and it's paying for other expenses) 

Will they ban Gamers too, because they are using the same GPU's.

The thing is that in general, states do not need cryptocurrency. In difficult periods that their economy is going through, they cannot fully regulate financial flows within their country due to the spread of cryptocurrency, because cryptocurrency knows no borders and is difficult to regulate. In Europe, there are now problems with energy due to Russia's military aggression against Ukraine and the sanctions imposed in response to Russia. Therefore, it is not a problem for states to choose whether to restrict cryptocurrency mining, or any other activity of their citizens, when deciding whether to take measures to reduce energy consumption. The choice will always fall on cryptocurrency.