[POLL] Should there be a 🍀 BTC AIRDROP 🍀 to Bitcointalk Merit Sources

[ajanwalker]

The title speaks for itself, one of the most thankless, time consuming and controversial jobs, for better or worse, Merit system has been in place for almost 5 years now, with absolutely no reward / compensation for the Merit Sources who have done overall an ok job to maintain some semblance of meritocracy in this legendary forum.

What do you guys think ? I believe when used constructively and virtuously, merit is a fantastic tool to encourage higher quality and intellect in crypto space, and a direct reward by the admin (@theymos) towards well performing sources would be a great incentive and accolade for them to do an even better job.

[1714727138]

1714727138

[1714727138]

1714727138

[decodx]

The title speaks for itself, one of the most thankless, time consuming and controversial jobs, for better or worse, Merit system has been in place for almost 5 years now, with absolutely no reward / compensation for the Merit Sources who have done overall an ok job to maintain some semblance of meritocracy in this legendary forum.

What do you guys think ? I believe when used constructively and virtuously, merit is a fantastic tool to encourage higher quality and intellect in crypto space, and a direct reward by the admin (@theymos) towards well performing sources would be a great incentive and accolade for them to do an even better job.

And what about the individuals who fight against spam? Don't you think that is also one of the most thankless, time consuming and frustrating jobs out there? I think it is. And it's not just the job itself that's tough, but also the posts you have to deal with on a regular basis. Those people also deserve our respect and appreciation because they work hard to keep the forum clean and safe.

[imamusma]

AFAIK, forums only pay moderators for their moderation work but forums don't pay anything for merit source. I'm also not sure if your idea is a good one to consider considering that merit source is basically a free job that can actually be turned down when you get an offer.

Edit:
So far, merit source is getting good returns from the community which has made their reputation on this forum very good and the community is proud of. It might be good to suggest this idea to icopress in particular to add new category of best merit sources on the year to the Bitcointalk Community awards thread.

[LTU_btc]

I don't think that Merit stuff should be monetized. When people become Merit sources, I doubt that they had expectations to get rewarded for their job. Don't understand me wrong, giving BTC rewards for merit sources isn't something fundamnetally wrong, but I just don't think that this stuff should be about money.
As @decodx, efforts of people who fight with spam isn't smaller, why not to reward them? Or someone who expose scams? Yeah, I know that scams isn't moderated, but merit system isn't moderated too.

[Sandra_hakeem]

Uhmmm.... NO!
point 1I'm not against merit sourceship , neither I'm I against meritocracy itself but, that'll incure an expenses -- to a magnitude that the forum managements would have to squeeze out to get funds, just to get 'em paid -- these will definitely happen after the forum's run bankrupt already. It'll make the admins loose-up to some risk -- risk that'll involve cash at the end, that was evaded, prolly in past due to some unforseen mishaps or sometimes, decipherable disruption, Sorta like real bugs, controlled by human just to make with the site (something I guess, had happened earlier on), IT MIGHT TEMPT 'em admins -- since they'll need to pay up a hundred merit sources -- to adhere on some nefarious deals(might be unknown to em, as it usually is, until whenever) that'll finally get us all FUCKED.

point 2: you just wanna make the sourceship a nice piece of cake; so you'd have alot of peeps scrambling and vying, day and night, bringing up testimonies and making references to what they did, just to keep getting many peeps on the affirmative. It's not even a paid position but, alot of peeps are flunting the meta board to get recognized, how much more when it is?? Huh?? We Gon find this board unreadable. I dunno why you don't reason out the intricacies of taking certain actions before planning 'em.

It'll be nice if they're awarded, annually? That'll make much requal-sense.
Sandra 💇

[examplens]

hmm, new discovery. Merit source as a way of earning.
if there was prize money, I can only imagine the drama there would be over the merit sources. probably a large number of users would submit a request to be a merit source, and just how many complaints would there be about the bad use of free/paid merits?

if we were to go in that direction, maybe it would be possible to introduce the possibility of sending tips for each received merit as thanks. What could go wrong?

[Bitcoin_Arena]

Being a merit source is more like a voluntary task, and most of the members applied as merit sources as volunteers. It's not a job. Monetizing it or even a simple airdrop would mess things up around here and cause a lot of unnecessary drama. If you were around when the merit system was introduced, I suppose you know what happened.

[sheenshane]

Not only merit sources are thankless members, but there are also a lot of them who spend time and effort just for the bitterness of the forum.
Reporters, scams, and spam busters deserve it too but they worked voluntarily to maintain the forum clean and safe because isn't moderated forum, and good thing we have them.

If there's a prize I think you must include them all but IMO, if you contributed a lot here you will earn benefits via an established member on the forum which is joining a high-paid signature campaign that isn't tough for you.

So my answer is NO and if there is, I tend to agree with them, it will create drama for sure.

[The Sceptical Chymist]

And what about the individuals who fight against spam?

Whaddaboutwhaddaboutwhaddabout.....yeah, there are a number of things non-staff members do for the forum that either go unrewarded or unacknowledged, but this thread is specifically about merit sources.

And hell yeah I voted yes!  I'd love to be paid for being a merit source--but that would be a sweet bonus for something I gladly have been doing for free for a few years now.  For me it isn't necessary, and I suspect for most of the other sources that's true, but this question popped into my noodle as I was pondering OP's question: If merit sources were paid (even if it were a small pittance) for a certain performance threshold, would you expect them to bust their asses to distribute as many merits as it took to reach that threshold? 

My point is that it could act as an incentive to be an active merit source.  As it stands, sources can do whatever they like and Theymos doesn't say boo.  And granted, the position is voluntary so Theymos is not their boss....but if that position was made into a pseudo-staff one, standards could be set to keep everything running smoothly.  Who knows?

I probably just did more typing than thinking, and now I'm going to do some reading of the replies.  No one has ever brought this up before.

And while we're at it: Theymos, I need more FUCKING source sMerits.

[OgNasty]

I don’t think payment is necessary and I don’t think theymos would want to take the time to set up some sort of payout method. It would be cool though of course. The idea of this forum providing jobs to people even if they are small payments, is a pretty cool one. Maybe if people received tiny amounts of satoshis for things like posts and merits, that would be a reason to use the lightning network.

[Solosanz]

Maybe if people received tiny amounts of satoshis for things like posts and merits, that would be a reason to use the lightning network.

I hope this wouldn't happen in this forum, many people will spamming in this forum in order to increase their posts count and create merit fishing thread in Meta or Beginner & Help to get many merit from merit sources. There's many legendary members get negative feedback because they're scammer or cheating bounties, I don't think it's good if they can get a payment when they're a scammer or cheater.

[hugeblack]

I would be glad if I get a one time payment or as a thank you but we can't count it as a job and therefore not as a payment.

I remember the 10th anniversary of bitcointalk there were prizes ----> 10th anniversary art contest so an occasion like this would be good (every 5 or 10 years)

[Don Pedro Dinero]

The title speaks for itself, one of the most thankless, time consuming and controversial jobs, for better or worse, Merit system has been in place for almost 5 years now, with absolutely no reward / compensation for the Merit Sources who have done overall an ok job to maintain some semblance of meritocracy in this legendary forum.

What do you guys think ? I believe when used constructively and virtuously, merit is a fantastic tool to encourage higher quality and intellect in crypto space, and a direct reward by the admin (@theymos) towards well performing sources would be a great incentive and accolade for them to do an even better job.

I find this idea of proposing actions to be financed with other people's money very amusing.

If you think it's so important, why don't you give money to merit sources out of your own pocket? Or if you don't have enough bitcoin you can organise a collection for your cause.

Don't get me wrong, I think it's good that certain very active merit sources like The Pharmacist are somehow rewarded, what I'm not clear about is your proposal.

[Rikafip]

and most of the members applied as merit sources as volunteers.

Not really as majority of merit sources were appointed by theymos without even applying. They could of course refuse that role and ask to have merit source status removed if they weren't up to that task.
I voted no as I don't think that it would be a smart thing to monetize merit source status as it would just create more drama.

As it stands, sources can do whatever they like and Theymos doesn't say boo.  And granted, the position is voluntary so Theymos is not their boss....but if that position was made into a pseudo-staff one, standards could be set to keep everything running smoothly.  Who knows?

Afaik theymos removed  merit source status from inactive members (and also increased/decreased their merit allocation according to their performance) in the past so its not like you can do whatever you want. It doesn't happen often though, like every two years or so, when he notices that amount of shared merit drops considerably, like he did last year.


 

[NeuroticFish]

and most of the members applied as merit sources as volunteers.

Not really as majority of merit sources were appointed by theymos without even applying. They could of course refuse that role and ask to have merit source status removed if they weren't up to that task.

One can refuse the merit source status or one can simply not spend his sMerit. Easy.

What do you guys think ?

I guess that it could be a nice addition, or better said a nice surprise, but it should not be something permanent / mandatory, like a rule, because that would only bring unnecessary drama.
Merit sources do get - sooner or later - recognized in a way or another. Even the fact they've became merit sources means they are very active, hence recognized.
Those who care about the money do participate in well paying signature campaigns.

So, again, it should never become a rule or something that looks mandatory. But I am sure that a tip like surprise would bring some smiles here and there.
However, let's try not to break something that already works well, OK, please?

[ABCbits]

It's not best time to make this suggestion considering theymos recently suspend ad sales[1]. The idea isn't bad, but getting paid without following certain guideline or minimum standard may have unwanted outcome. For example, send more sMerit than usual or lower the criteria to increase sending quantity. Besides, checking performance of 100+ merit sources need some effort, either by doing it manually or creating algorithm which could be exploited.

[1] https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5407725.msg60976136#msg60976136

[Pmalek]

As a merit source, I voted no. My life hasn't become harder after I became one. I distribute merits in the threads and sections where I am currently reading and posting. I do the reading part already because I need to know what to say if I a going to make a post. The only difference now is that I have to click a few additional buttons and spend 10-20 seconds to send a few merits to the posts I believe deserve them.

It can't really be considered "work" that deserves monetary reward. On the other hand, it would be different if theymos one day decided to reward the top 100/1000/whatever, forum members with some BTC for their contributions to the forum.

that'll incure an expenses -- to a magnitude that the forum managements would have to squeeze out to get funds, just to get 'em paid -- these will definitely happen after the forum's run bankrupt already.

The forum sits on 750 BTC or so. There is very little chance for Bitcointalk to go bankrupt.

The first thing that came to mind when I saw the proposal of getting paid for being a merit source is the song Toss a coin to your Witcher, oh valley of plenty...

[NotATether]

I don't need a BTC airdrop to send out my merits, thank you.

Besides, ever since ad space stopped being auctioned, the forum has been running at a loss. Admin is not going to throw more money out of the window when there's no reason to financially incentivize merit sources.

[Lucius]

What do you guys think ?

It is unfortunate to see that some people completely misunderstand how the forum works and that they think that every function on the forum should be monetized in one way or another. It is true that some members applied to be merit sources, but there are those who were selected without asking for it - but all of them have no obligation to award even one merit they receive, it is all a matter of their good will. Their real reward is that they help all members below the Legendary rank to progress towards that rank, and if someone wants to donate anonymously to someone who is a merit source, they can do so at any time.

And what about the individuals who fight against spam? Don't you think that is also one of the most thankless, time consuming and frustrating jobs out there? I think it is. And it's not just the job itself that's tough, but also the posts you have to deal with on a regular basis. Those people also deserve our respect and appreciation because they work hard to keep the forum clean and safe.

All of them are obviously a different category and apparently quite underestimated because, as some prominent members of the forum say, they "waste their time" instead of using the ignore button. I do not think that they should be financially motivated for what they do, because that would only result in massive reports and abuse of unprecedented proportions. If the administration thinks that once a year it can simply say thank you to those members, most would understand that as additional motivation.

[LoyceV]

Merit system has been in place for almost 5 years now, with absolutely no reward / compensation for the Merit Sources who have done overall an ok job to maintain some semblance of meritocracy in this legendary forum.

I guess you weren't around before the Merit system. I see a better forum with less spam, which is a great reward!

a direct reward by the admin (@theymos) towards well performing sources would be a great incentive and accolade for them to do an even better job.

As the #2 most generous merit sender, and as a Bitcoin HODLer, I say: yes! But as a forum user, I think this would give a very bad incentive to Merit sources, so NO! And don't even get me started on the drama it will create.

[Agbe]

Even though merit source is a voluntary job, the outstanding merit sources should be rewarded with either another 500+ smerits when the first allocation has finished or a token of Bitcoin from the admin. There are some merits sources can not finished half of the smerits give to them in the month while some finished it within one week, some even asked for extra to meet the request from users. I support the motion of rewarding the best and outstanding merit sources in the forum, I believed with that others who hodling their smerits allocated to will sit up and do the needful and why they were accepted has merit sources.
And those who are not doing well as merit sources should be removed and new ones who are really ready to work should be approved.

[Igebotz]

Even though merit source is a voluntary job, the outstanding merit sources should be rewarded with either another 500+ smerits when the first allocation has finished or a token of Bitcoin from the admin. There are some merits sources can not finished half of the smerits give to them in the month while some finished it within one week, some even asked for extra to meet the request from users. I support the motion of rewarding the best and outstanding merit sources in the forum, I believed with that others who hodling their smerits allocated to will sit up and do the needful and why they were accepted has merit sources.
And those who are not doing well as merit sources should be removed and new ones who are really ready to work should be approved.

It is not a job; it is a volunteer community service with no monetary value; if a user feels the need to be paid to distribute his source merits, that user does not deserve to be a merit source and should give up; it is not a difficult job in any case, and there are hundreds of pending applicants ^{[including mine]} who are willing to serve the community for free. If there are any future rewards, the spam busters deserve them because they do a more difficult job cleaning the forum.

[Pandu Geddon]

I don't think that's a good idea. Merit sources do everything voluntarily. even created a thread for them to review. so they don't have to bother looking for posts worth sharing.
They did have a very busy schedule when it came to distributing Merits. but they realized that they did it to support the running of this system. Merit sources are people who care about forums. but rewards in the form of BTC airdrops or money will not be great for what they do. I'm sure the Merit source doesn't want that either.

[Igebotz]

I don't think that's a good idea. Merit sources do everything voluntarily. even created a thread for them to review. so they don't have to bother looking for posts worth sharing.
They did have a very busy schedule when it came to distributing Merits. but they realized that they did it to support the running of this system. Merit sources are people who care about forums. but rewards in the form of BTC airdrops or money will not be great for what they do. I'm sure the Merit source doesn't want that either.

I'm sure the 7 who voted to be paid are merit sources; I don't think any non-merit source would take such a stance, and 1 or 2 merit sources have already expressed an interest in being paid to distribute. I would propose that they give the most active merit source a monthly or yearly reward (a badge) to thank them for helping to make the system what it is today.

No job should be taken for granted but.... No monetary value.

[NotATether]

Merit system has been in place for almost 5 years now, with absolutely no reward / compensation for the Merit Sources who have done overall an ok job to maintain some semblance of meritocracy in this legendary forum.

I guess you weren't around before the Merit system. I see a better forum with less spam, which is a great reward!

a direct reward by the admin (@theymos) towards well performing sources would be a great incentive and accolade for them to do an even better job.

As the #2 most generous merit sender, and as a Bitcoin HODLer, I say: yes! But as a forum user, I think this would give a very bad incentive to Merit sources, so NO! And don't even get me started on the drama it will create.

Besides, it would incentivize users to "apply" to be a merit source only to squat on their smerit allocation, or worse: it could be silently laundered to farm accounts in case merit sources were to be subsidized in proportion to the amount of smerit sent.

[LoyceV]

Besides, it would incentivize users to "apply" to be a merit source only to squat on their smerit allocation, or worse: it could be silently laundered to farm accounts in case merit sources were to be subsidized in proportion to the amount of smerit sent.

That brings account farming to a whole new level: 6 on DT1, 12 on DT2, 8 of them are Mods and all 18 Merit sources

[NotATether]

Besides, it would incentivize users to "apply" to be a merit source only to squat on their smerit allocation, or worse: it could be silently laundered to farm accounts in case merit sources were to be subsidized in proportion to the amount of smerit sent.

That brings account farming to a whole new level: 6 on DT1, 12 on DT2, 8 of them are Mods and all 18 Merit sources

Yeah and at that point, the entire DT system would be fucked as well (I know there are people who already think that it's broken, but trust me: You haven't seen the worst yet. But let's keep it that way for our own sanity's sake.)

[skarais]

What do you guys think ? I believe when used constructively and virtuously, merit is a fantastic tool to encourage higher quality and intellect in crypto space,

Honestly it's true, merit system has encourage more quality among users especially for those who still need rank. Also, the merit system has made the forum less spamming, but of course every system will never be perfect but at least it has helped.

and a direct reward by the admin (@theymos) towards well performing sources would be a great incentive and accolade for them to do an even better job.

Something like custom badge might be conceivable, but since the merit system was introduced I don't think theymos ever announced anyone on their list until people found out based on their stats. Some merit sources now publicly announce that they are sources, but others remain private even though they are known. So somehow I don't agree with incentivizing bitcoin as a reward for merit source, but maybe good for a badge.

[dkbit98]

This is not working position so I don't think this is a good idea. and minutes after theymos would implement this in action we would have big flood of new merit course applications.
I understand paying someone for being active moderator, responding to all reports, deleting stuff, movinng posts, etc. but forum would not function without mods.
Everything can work perfectly fine without infamous merit sources.

Yeah and at that point, the entire DT system would be fucked as well (I know there are people who already think that it's broken, but trust me: You haven't seen the worst yet. But let's keep it that way for our own sanity's sake.)

DT system is arguably already fucked up and broken  thanks to JG and other members like him, but paying to merit sources would be the final nail in DT system coffin.

[Agbe]

There are some merits sources that are hodling the source merits while some are sharing them very effective. And we are saying that the once that are effective charitable should be rewarded with a token to motivate and awaken the ones that not sending them out and if those are not still sending them out they should be removed and approved other applicants.

It is not a job; it is a volunteer community service with no monetary value; if a user feels the need to be paid to distribute his source merits, that user does not deserve to be a merit source and should give up; it is not a difficult job in any case, and there are hundreds of pending applicants ^{[including mine]} who are willing to serve the community for free. If there are any future rewards, the spam busters deserve them because they do a more difficult job cleaning the forum.

I'm sure the 7 who voted to be paid are merit sources; I don't think any non-merit source would take such a stance, and 1 or 2 merit sources have already expressed an interest in being paid to distribute. I would propose that they give the most active merit source a monthly or yearly reward (a badge) to thank them for helping to make the system what it is today.

No job should be taken for granted but.... No monetary value.

Comrade, frankly speaking, I don't understand these your two comments because your first comment looks as if it's against the request while the second comment is like supporting it again. So when saw it I am confused.

[Igebotz]

It is not a job; it is a volunteer community service with no monetary value; if a user feels the need to be paid to distribute his source merits, that user does not deserve to be a merit source and should give up; it is not a difficult job in any case, and there are hundreds of pending applicants ^{[including mine]} who are willing to serve the community for free. If there are any future rewards, the spam busters deserve them because they do a more difficult job cleaning the forum.

I'm sure the 7 who voted to be paid are merit sources; I don't think any non-merit source would take such a stance, and 1 or 2 merit sources have already expressed an interest in being paid to distribute. I would propose that they give the most active merit source a monthly or yearly reward (a badge) to thank them for helping to make the system what it is today.

No job should be taken for granted but.... No monetary value.

Comrade, frankly speaking, I don't understand these your two comments because your first comment looks as if it's against the request while the second comment is like supporting it again. So when saw it I am confused.

In my second comment on this thread, I proposed a non-monetary value system, which is the badge to be given to the monthly or yearly most active and most distributed as a piece of reward for good work. Are you still confused?

[NotATether]

In my second comment on this thread, I proposed a non-monetary value system, which is the badge to be given to the monthly or yearly most active and most distributed as a piece of reward for good work. Are you still confused?

I actually do not like this idea either because then everybody will be able to easily see who the merit sources are, and then their message inboxes will be marooned by newbies and other low-rank users asking for merit.

This link: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=merit;stats=sources lists merit source stats but it does not list who the merit sources are.

[Igebotz]

In my second comment on this thread, I proposed a non-monetary value system, which is the badge to be given to the monthly or yearly most active and most distributed as a piece of reward for good work. Are you still confused?

I actually do not like this idea either because then everybody will be able to easily see who the merit sources are, and then their message inboxes will be marooned by newbies and other low-rank users asking for merit.

This link: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=merit;stats=sources lists merit source stats but it does not list who the merit sources are.

Are merit sources supposed to remain anonymous? If that's what theymos wanted, the mode of application would be through PM rather than Meta, and I wouldn't mind if newbies sent me a PM asking me to review their post history; it makes the work easier anyway. Isn't that what other merits sources are already doing?

[Pmalek]

I actually do not like this idea either because then everybody will be able to easily see who the merit sources are, and then their message inboxes will be marooned by newbies and other low-rank users asking for merit.

It's not that difficult to find them because we already have several threads where some names are correctly listed. Older ones, but still. I am not going to link to any for the same reason that you mentioned. There is one thread that is regularly updated and shows a list of members who distribute the most merits per month. That one reveal a lot. Other "suspects" can be identified by checking their received/sent counts.

[Falconer]

Are merit sources supposed to remain anonymous?

That is the choice of each source of merit, but they are unable to remain anonymous from the many users who are aware of its existence. As others have said, there are several threads to see who the merit source are on this forum, so they are not anonymous but probably not widely known to most newbies.

Isn't that what other merits sources are already doing?

Yes, and some others open thread to get some good posts by reporting them like LoyceV, fillippone, Ratimov and others.

[Lafu]

In my second comment on this thread, I proposed a non-monetary value system, which is the badge to be given to the monthly or yearly most active and most distributed as a piece of reward for good work. Are you still confused?

Bad idea i think , because who defines what good work is or how most active and most distributed to the Forum and the community.
There are some Users that dont write much but reporting a lot and hide in the background.

I actually do not like this idea either because then everybody will be able to easily see who the merit sources are, and then their message inboxes will be marooned by newbies and other low-rank users asking for merit.

The most merit sources are already known and can be spotted easly if you know where you have to look for.

I support the motion of rewarding the best and outstanding merit sources in the forum

To answer the OPs question in the thread title , not a good idea to airdrop or reward BTC to Merit Sources.
Maybe a reward in form of Merits would be a good idea.

[fillippone]

Mixed feeling here.

As LoyceV said, of course I would like to stack more sats, basically doing what I already doing for free.

There is one aspect that would make it worse: being paid to do something is like a job; and a job requires a contract, and standards to be followed.

I now enjoy the possibility of deciding what to do with my merits what I think it is in the best interest of the forum.
If I were paid, I guess I couldn’t have the same freedom.

Maybe those constraint wouldn’t be so tight, maybe yes. It would be different by the way.

I answered “curious” to the idea. But I fear that there would be many unintended consequences to this, risking breaking something it has been working pretty much effectively since a few years.

[Awaklara]

Are merit sources supposed to remain anonymous? If that's what theymos wanted, the mode of application would be through PM rather than Meta, and I wouldn't mind if newbies sent me a PM asking me to review their post history; it makes the work easier anyway. Isn't that what other merits sources are already doing?

I agree with you, what is the underlying reason for the Merit Source to remain anonymous? while we can see how the history of sMerit is sent. we can find out which accounts are indeed Merit Sources.
no matter how many accounts make PM for review, when it does not meet the standards of the Merit Source, they will not get Merit.
some Merit sources create threads for anyone to review. we can see several Merit Sources open to anyone trying to raise their rank.

BTC airdrop for Merit source is not good enough I guess. the badge will look more good.

[lovesmayfamilis]

OP, let's not evaluate every action in terms of money. What about the concept of "volunteering"? Nevertheless, being a merit source is quite a responsible job, and it only seems to many that it can be easy. As we sometimes see, users keep their merits to create a separate topic for distribution in the future. Some merit sources cover a huge amount of information to find good posts. Sometimes, it seems that these people do not sleep at all. And yet, this forum has become a common and favorite platform for us, which can be compared to a beloved home. Will we ask for payment for the cleanliness of the house and its maintenance?

[skarais]

Mixed feeling here.

As LoyceV said, of course I would like to stack more sats, basically doing what I already doing for free.

There is one aspect that would make it worse: being paid to do something is like a job; and a job requires a contract, and standards to be followed.

I now enjoy the possibility of deciding what to do with my merits what I think it is in the best interest of the forum.
If I were paid, I guess I couldn’t have the same freedom.

Maybe those constraint wouldn’t be so tight, maybe yes. It would be different by the way.

I answered “curious” to the idea. But I fear that there would be many unintended consequences to this, risking breaking something it has been working pretty much effectively since a few years.

If merit source are paid for, then I'm sure there will be a lot of drama going on in this forum about merit system. No more freedom, you'll be sued for send all those sMrits all the time and I'll most likely even see dozens of the same thread asking why x-name's merit source hasn't send any merit in the last 24 hours. Lol

But I believe, every forum contributor deserves to get something more for his volunteer work. It wasn't all about money, but maybe something else.

[fillippone]

If merit source are paid for, then I'm sure there will be a lot of drama going on in this forum about merit system.

Drama would be the first “unintended consequence” I was referring to on my previous answer, but there would be more subtle effects.

On the other hand, it’s true moderator have some kind of subsidy for their work, and they are able to manage the drama and burden of it.

And I am sure the merit system is at least as important to moderation to have a readable forum.

Not an as weird argument as I initially thought.

[Sandra_hakeem]

that'll incure an expenses -- to a magnitude that the forum managements would have to squeeze out to get funds, just to get 'em paid -- these will definitely happen after the forum's run bankrupt already.

The forum sits on 750 BTC or so. There is very little chance for Bitcointalk to go bankrupt.

No Malek, I totally disagree with that. AFAIK, there isn't an amount that can't get exhausted, over time. I understand that you'd like the idea for some personal gain, yunno but again, 750btcs could get exhausted if there's not an immediate means to rejuvenate cash for that minimal expenses. I'm not against you or any merit source getting paid ( who knows if I'd become one someday?)? but this is a community that we all would wish -- EARNESTLY -- for her well being; pulling out SATs unnecessarily isn't an actual factor to guarantee the later process,(even if I were a Merit-source, I won't actually support that.......it wouldn't mean that I don't need those few bucks but, ......we need to grow)

I still stand on my already proven point: if Merit-sources are served some SATs as a way to say "thank you", that should be on merit-base; "Most logically -generous giver" , "most concerned" , "most consistent" etc..... Monthly or annually as the case might be. Yes, a worker is entitled to some wages; think of the "whole drama" behind this gorgeous illusions.
Edit: I was just trying to lookup myself in sources' shoes; honestly I'll say no unless I'm asked otherwise.

Sandra 💇

[Pmalek]

I understand that you'd like the idea for some personal gain, yunno but again, 750btcs could get exhausted if there's not an immediate means to rejuvenate cash for that minimal expenses. I'm not against you or any merit source getting paid ( who knows if I'd become one someday?)? but this is a community that we all would wish -- EARNESTLY -- for her well being; pulling out SATs unnecessarily isn't an actual factor to guarantee the later process,(even if I were a Merit-source, I won't actually support that.......it wouldn't mean that I don't need those few bucks but, ......we need to grow)

I am surprised by you to be honest. How did you manage to interpret my reply as a sign that I want to get paid for being a merit source when the post you quoted begins with:

As a merit source, I voted no.

And a few sentences later I said:

It can't really be considered "work" that deserves monetary reward.

I thought you were better than that Sandra, and then you go and say something like that.

[Peanutswar]

Being a merit source is like voluntarily giving your service to the community, having a good reputation and being a good contributor by that you build your own personality in the forum which is really credible by that you can apply as a merit source but getting a reward is an option only, there's a chance if being a merit source becomes paid there's an instance a lot of application getting submitted because it is monetized, becomes a merit source is an opportunity and willingness to help and don't expect a change or reward.

[Sandra_hakeem]

It can't really be considered "work" that deserves monetary reward.

I thought you were better than that Sandra, and then you go and say something like that.

I'm sorry 'bout my misinterpretations; yes, I accept the fact that I misunderstood you. I can assure you that - that wasn't intentional. The thing is, maybe I missed some points when I was reading your replies earlier, deeply sorry  . Yes, I'm still myself and that's unchanged. To be honest, I was really tired but, I had to reply so maybe I read a comment somewhere?? ( I don't know). I gave some merit point for the inconveniences.
Off topic: Gloves, you good? Yeah, I sure hope you'd realize the same thing too, maybe earlier than I did.... Ssssss....fucked up atimes.

Sandra 💇

[PowerGlove]

I voted no, because I don't see how attaching a financial incentive to being a merit source can do anything but (indirectly) harm the forum. It's kind of like running a donkey sanctuary; there's no profit in it, so the kind of people that gravitate towards that type of work really care about the donkeys.

Off topic: Gloves, you good? Yeah, I sure hope you'd realize the same thing too, maybe earlier than I did.... Ssssss....fucked up atimes.

Yup, all good. Honest mistake, honest apology.

[UmerIdrees]

The title speaks for itself, one of the most thankless, time consuming and controversial jobs, for better or worse, Merit system has been in place for almost 5 years now, with absolutely no reward / compensation for the Merit Sources who have done overall an ok job to maintain some semblance of meritocracy in this legendary forum.

What do you guys think ? I believe when used constructively and virtuously, merit is a fantastic tool to encourage higher quality and intellect in crypto space, and a direct reward by the admin (@theymos) towards well performing sources would be a great incentive and accolade for them to do an even better job.

I don't agree that Merit sources are given bitcoin rewards too. They are already given the sort of unlimited amount of smerits to distribute (which other normal users may dream of ), do they need BTC reward too 

Why not give rewards to those who receive a lot of merits? Those are also the real persons who are really helpful to the community who help the community with their informative and knowledgeable posts. After all, bitcointalk is a forum where the posters should be rewarded, if there is any reward to be distributed.

[Pmalek]

I'm sorry 'bout my misinterpretations; yes, I accept the fact that I misunderstood you. I can assure you that - that wasn't intentional.

Don't worry about it. It was funny to see you freak out for a moment though.

They are already given the sort of unlimited amount of smerits to distribute (which other normal users may dream of

All merit sources have a precise number of source merits they get every month. So the numbers are precisely defined, even though they are substantial for some. But there are also those who think they should have more, like The Pharmacist who has publicly stated a request to get more many times. No idea how much he gets, but one could speculate by looking at the data posted in The most generous users giving merits.

Why not give rewards to those who receive a lot of merits? Those are also the real persons who are really helpful to the community who help the community with their informative and knowledgeable posts.

Very often those are the same people. Many belong to the group of the biggest senders and receivers, most trusted, part of DT, staff, etc. That's why on the surface it looks like the game is rigged, but those making the accusations don't see the contributions and effort those "game riggers" and "fraudsters" made and still make to get where they are.

[Rikafip]

But I believe, every forum contributor deserves to get something more for his volunteer work. It wasn't all about money, but maybe something else.

Volunteering means not expecting or asking something in return.

Why not give rewards to those who receive a lot of merits? Those are also the real persons who are really helpful to the community who help the community with their informative and knowledgeable posts. After all, bitcointalk is a forum where the posters should be rewarded, if there is any reward to be distributed.

Why stop there, might as well give free bitcoin to everyone who reaches certain rank, or maybe even everyone who registers? I mean seriously, does every single activity on this forum has to be monetized or in other way recognized via badges/titles etc?

I don't know if people are aware of that, but bitcointalk already has a reputation of a place that exists solely for the purpose of people making money out it (I heard if from quite a few old school bitcoiners that I tried talk into either registering or coming back here) and while I disagree with them and I think that bitcointalk is more than that, if ideas like these were implemented it would be step in that direction.

[The Sceptical Chymist]

If merit source are paid for, then I'm sure there will be a lot of drama going on in this forum about merit system.

No doubt there would be at least some drama, and probably more so than with moderators.  They usually only get criticized when somebody's posts get deleted, and in those cases it's not even a big deal except to the person whose posts got nuked.  

With merit sources, anybody can see how many merits they're giving out and to whom--and I'm sure that data would be analyzed and scrutinized to death, since merits and the ranking up process are of such high importance.  People are going to wonder which merit sources are slacking or look like they're giving preferential treatment to members, or whatever.  And while it's true that there's no public list of who's a merit source, that secret has already been cracked.

I don't agree that Merit sources are given bitcoin rewards too. They are already given the sort of unlimited amount of smerits to distribute (which other normal users may dream of ), do they need BTC reward too  

What?  So you think it's a reward to have a bunch of sMerits that you're required to distribute properly, in addition to carrying the burden of helping the entire merit system function properly?

Merit sources aren't just gifted with a large number of sMerits and that's the end of it.  They're expected to be active in giving them out (even though I don't recall Theymos ever stating as much) and be way more responsible in that task than a non-merit source.  Personally I don't consider it a reward that Theymos tapped me to be a source.  I'm honored that he thought enough of me to make me one (I didn't apply; one day I got a PM saying I was a merit source), but I do feel like I have a job to do even if it isn't a particularly demanding one.

[nutildah]

Might as well do it before all the forum BTC runs out after paying it to the people who are watching the forum BTC...

wait what

[Lucius]

Why stop there, might as well give free bitcoin to everyone who reaches certain rank, or maybe even everyone who registers? I mean seriously, does every single activity on this forum has to be monetized or in other way recognized via badges/titles etc?

Let's not lie to each other, most of the members are here only for profit and are always looking for a way to monetize everything, so I'm not at all surprised that someone had the idea that even merit sources should be paid for their work. Although money has always been the best motivator, some things really shouldn't be motivated that way because it's simply the wrong way.

As for titles and badges, I don't see it as something bad, especially if it is about some achievements that are really worth it and if they would be awarded on special occasions.

[OgNasty]

Might as well do it before all the forum BTC runs out after paying it to the people who are watching the forum BTC...

wait what

I stopped watching the treasury after I got shit canned by theymos.  One of or possibly the last comment I made about it was that I felt myself and others were significantly overpaid and suggested we take an 80% reduction in treasurer payouts in order to keep the forum's cash flow responsible.  What do I know though...  I was the guy who thought the forum wanted a few million extra dollars by claiming airdrops and was then vilified for it.  I assume that the financial situation is still fine, but it seems rather obvious that the whole 1 BTC equals 1 BTC standard that is being attempted here is at the detriment of the forum's savings.

I think reducing the treasurer payouts and using some of those funds to distribute to those sending merit (not just merit sources) via the lightning network would be a positive advancement for the site, would give a use case for the lightning network, and would spur lightning adoption among forum users.  I think the payouts should be so small and widespread that it would be considered hobby income or donations to avoid having to collect personal information on everyone while also not giving much incentive to try and cheat the system.  Maybe more merit sources would want to step forward and the merits currently being distributed to merit sources could be reduced and spread out to more longtime trustworthy members as well.  Would be fun.

The 0.325BTC amount is for the entire month, and does not appear to pay all the forum's expenses. As I noted, the forum spent 56% of that on mod payments, and Loyce noted the forum accrued a liability to pay the treasurers 77% that. That means the forum spent 133% of ad revenue on expenses before hosting costs, which I imagine to be four figures /USD per month.

With the much higher Bitcoin exchange rate this year, I believe it would be making an assumption to think the BTC payment to treasurers would remain the same going forward.  I find it a bit unlikely that this would be the case.  I would even go as far as to propose an 80% reduction in the BTC amount paid to treasurers going forward and think that could be done by theymos without anyone involved having an issue.

[Fivestar4everMVP]

its an interesting idea but i am also not surprised that the third option in the poll is leading, the job or rather, task of a merit source is a voluntary task which was not forced on any member, those who choose to become merit sources did so by making an application post directed to theymos knowing fully well its not a paid task.

I personally think the forum admin are doing enough already by doing all they can to keep this forum running peacefully, paying for various services as well as the moderators, before we ask them to reward merit sources, first ask them how much they generate from this forum on monthly basis and how much they spend on maintaining the forum.

It is my opinion that if it is important to reward merit sources for their selfless services on this forum, then it is our responsibility as community members, since their service is to us and not to the forum admins, we as community members can come together and maybe organize a freewill donation, whatever amount raised at the end, we forward it to the merit sources as an appreciation for their services to the community. 

[BlackHatCoiner]

No, there shouldn't. There's already reward: less spam. Besides, I don't remember myself demanding this position or doing a merit source interview; I was just selected, according to my preferences. I wasn't inactive sMerit sender before. I just started spending more frequently, and with greater amounts. I was also trusted to handle this; prestige is part of the reward.

[Scripture]

We only have one merit source in our local section and he's not active anymore, how can he deserve an airdrop for being a merit source?

Is there any way to replace a merit source even if someone is not applying for a merit source?
We have a very low merit distribution with our local thread and I see the inactive of our merit source as one of the reason why our local group was left behind. Being a merit source is a privilege and not a job, I don't see any reason to give them an airdrop.

[Timelord2067]

Had there been a vote option "If you don't want to do it, step aside and let someone else do it" then that would have been my choice, instead I voted no.

Thankless or not, by handing out additional merits, you agreed not to be paid.

[Rikafip]

Is there any way to replace a merit source even if someone is not applying for a merit source?

It is possible to become a merit source even without applying for it so I guess theymos could do that next time when he readjusts merit sources, but I wouldn't count on it (especially if you lack merit in your local board, and Philippines board is definitely short on merit).

[LoyceV]

Why not give rewards to those who receive a lot of merits?

That sounds a lot like competition for the Foxpup Merit cycling Club

Seriously though: bad idea. Remember the forum's mission:

the forum's mission to be as free as possible.

I can't think of any way how paying Merit sources or Merit earners makes the forum more free.

[Pmalek]

the job or rather, task of a merit source is a voluntary task which was not forced on any member, those who choose to become merit sources did so by making an application post directed to theymos knowing fully well its not a paid task.

It would be interesting to get some stats on how many people applied and were accepted to become merit sources and how many were handpicked by theymos and his staff personally. But it's impossible to get accurate data on the subject. I never applied or considered becoming one until one day I got PMed and informed I am a merit source. 

I can't think of any way how paying Merit sources or Merit earners makes the forum more free.

It's simple:

1. Come up with a bulletproof system to pay merit sources on a regular basis.
2. Distribute bitcoin to provided addresses.
3. ...
4. Freedom.

[vapourminer]

if i got paid it would become like a job.

im retired. nah.

[OgNasty]

if i got paid it would become like a job.

im retired. nah.

If you were paid something like 1 satoshi per merit distributed, it wouldn’t be much of an income to consider it a job. It would be more of an educational incentive to fire up a lightning node while further incentivizing users to make good posts. I’m sure a lot of people wouldn’t bother setting up a node (maybe custodial wallets could be excluded somehow) and the tiny income of 1 sat per merit wouldn’t be enough to impact the forum’s finances in any way. This forum doesn’t really support the lightning network though (I don’t blame it) so this idea seems unlikely.

[Coyster]

There is no need to incentivise MS's with Bitcoin airdrop no matter how little the money is; it is much better for it to continue being a free contribution they make to the forum, MS's could start getting paid now and users would start complaining that MS's aren't doing the job the forum is paying them for if they are not receiving merits, these people wouldn't consider how little the payment is before making such complaints.

Having said that, MS's are doing a great contribution for the forum, but so are non-MS's who are also involved in making sure that the merit system lives on by distrubuting their Smerits to great posts, people could also start a case that regular non-MS's also deserve payment should the forum start paying MS's, it is prolly best to let things be for now.

[Welsh]

Whenever monetary reward is involved, you need a much stricter process selecting those for the job, since there will be bias involved. That means very likely the amount of merit sources reduces, and therefore the spread of merit reduces. Meaning, we're being counter productive, and making it too hard to users to rank up.

It's best to keep it how it is. Users can ask to become a source merit, and they can also ask to be removed. theymos will also remove users that are inactive periodically. I think that system works well enough to be honest. Plus, we have users that are merit sources that want to spread merit, for good intentions rather than just earning a buck. The system at the moment is working pretty well I think.

[Asiska02]

To be honest, this is a very welcome idea, although it can appear biased if you ignore the time-consuming measures that must be taken to select the right people. Because of the financial incentive, individuals may also wish to apply to become a merit source, meriting unqualified posts without giving them a second thought in exchange for a bigger distribution of merit. That wouldn't be good for the forum, right?

Perhaps, just perhaps, since it is voluntary work, let it remain that way, and if the admin ever wishes to reward those who have been active with the work, then it should be at their own judgment and not publicizing it because it might pose some dangers to the quality of posts being merited to forum users.

[suchmoon]

The topic of the thread is as stupid as it gets but seems like a good test as to how some people see the forum and what drives them to participate here. Not very surprising though.

[m2017]

The title speaks for itself, one of the most thankless, time consuming and controversial jobs, for better or worse, Merit system has been in place for almost 5 years now, with absolutely no reward / compensation for the Merit Sources who have done overall an ok job to maintain some semblance of meritocracy in this legendary forum.

What do you guys think ? I believe when used constructively and virtuously, merit is a fantastic tool to encourage higher quality and intellect in crypto space, and a direct reward by the admin (@theymos) towards well performing sources would be a great incentive and accolade for them to do an even better job.

And you didn't forget to ask the opinion of the admin about this?

In fact, the idea of rewarding for the role of a merit source is not without meaning. Perhaps this would attract new people who want to take on the duties of a merit source. Need to discuss this issue in more detail.

Suppose the administration of the bitcointalk and the BTC-community will accept this idea. What reward would OP (any forum user) offer for performing the functions of a merit source?

[Little Mouse]

how some people see the forum and what drives them to participate here. Not very surprising though.

This has always been a transparent case and nothing of surprising though users pretend to be something else like caring, sharing lol. I wish you understand "Masud valo hoye jao". Masuds never get changed. They repeat themselves  

Suppose the administration of the bitcointalk and the BTC-community will accept this idea. What reward would OP (any forum user) offer for performing the functions of a merit source?

OP said BTC airdrop in the title. I can only remember about the scam giveaway on Twitter which claims to giveaway free BTC while scamming the noobs lol.

[OgNasty]

how some people see the forum and what drives them to participate here. Not very surprising though.

She’s literally getting paid to promote a money laundering operation and trying to question other people’s motives for participating here… Total scum. Remove the signature if you want to sit on a high horse about why people post here, otherwise you just come off as a hypocrite that doesn’t want to see anyone else earn pennies for helping provide value to the forum while you get paid to spam here in order to help criminals launder their funds.

[suchmoon]

She’s literally getting paid to promote a money laundering operation and trying to question other people’s motives for participating here… Total scum. Remove the signature if you want to sit on a high horse about why people post here, otherwise you just come off as a hypocrite that doesn’t want to see anyone else earn pennies for helping provide value to the forum while you get paid to spam here in order to help criminals launder their funds.

If it's spam then report my posts to moderators instead if this chickenshit third-party "I pretend that I don't read your posts" response.

It's quite telling that your argument for getting paid as a merit source is a bouquet of fallacies. Luckily there are many truly dedicated merit sources who don't share your mercantile approach to the forum and are willing to "provide value" without necessarily expecting bitcoins in return.

[Mpamaegbu]

What do you guys think ?

I think the request you're making is a needless one. Merit sources (MS) should ordinarily find fulfilment in what they voluntarily do. You don't know what it feels like having the ability to bestow merit on posts you come across and think they're merit worthy. I feel bad whenever I'm not able to award merit on posts I think deserve it. So, to some extent, I think MS are already in a good place and their jobs aren't even that cumbersome when compared to those who fight spam or link accounts to one another as a way of sanitising the whole process.

[KingsDen]

I percieve that you have an untold bitterness towards either merit sources, or the merit system itself or in a rare scenario towards anyone who says good things about merit sources.
I remember when I raised this topic -
Are you a merit source? Thanks for your sacrifice.. You called it merit begging even when my merit count is higher than my activity count by a good margin.

Now, another fellow made a harmless suggestions about rewarding merit sources which you would have simply objected, but you chosed to call him and his suggestions stupid and yet merits were given you for calling someone stupid.

The topic of the thread is as stupid as it gets but seems like a good test as to how some people see the forum and what drives them to participate here. Not very surprising though.

I don't know if you had some issues with the merit system before, or you are a merit source (I doubt) or likely you had been a merit source and applied to be removed or you were delisted by theymos. One of the above could be the case because the bitterness is eminent.

[_BlackStar]

I think the request you're making is a needless one.

Even before the polls closed, we could already conclude that the OP's idea wasn't very well supported. This volunteer work should be valued more than money, but not money or bitcoin. Something like badge could be suggested ^{[even if it's not the best proposal considering privacy],} but honestly I'd really like to see merit source get more recognition.

[avp2306]

If there's a sponsor will compensate each merit source then why not? well maybe this is good to have since people given that status exert extra ordinary effort to give contribution to the forum.


But if you are looking for theymos to do that and give compensation to the selected merit source user I provably can say that this is not sustainable in long run since for sure for continuously doing this forum will lose a lot of money due to this plan and might admins might not have enough money to spend on operating cost of this forum.

[suchmoon]

The topic of the thread is as stupid as it gets but seems like a good test as to how some people see the forum and what drives them to participate here. Not very surprising though.

I don't know if you had some issues with the merit system before, or you are a merit source (I doubt) or likely you had been a merit source and applied to be removed or you were delisted by theymos. One of the above could be the case because the bitterness is eminent.

So you know nothing, but you think I'm bitter

Except my post in not against the merit system in any way, but against the attempt to "monetize" it. A solution for a problem that doesn't exist. Likely to create many new problems.

[Adbitco]

Sincerely speaking it's a serious matter but we all seems to see it as a common task, sometimes I have thought about these people working as staff, mod and admins or even those that fight against Spam across the forum what is their benefits as they work, here is a well known forum with over millions of user and if possible hundreds of person signing up everyday by day.

Well I can't just conclude it all but I think only staff and merits source could explain what they sees and what they received as a compensation which deep inside they are not being rewarded.

Lastly one other thought that came into me is that, here we are a community with mission to carry out the evangelical work of bitcoin which is to spread the max adoption, acceptance, recognition of BTC to make its purposes fully come to reality as an alternative means of payment and many more. Yes today it has been achieved so I don't think there should be rewards but as a way which the platform provides job across is fair enough for everyone here to get engaged with.

That is my little thought.. so I believe Theymos has it all to say.

[Z-tight]

Sincerely speaking it's a serious matter but we all seems to see it as a common task, sometimes I have thought about these people working as staff, mod and admins or even those that fight against Spam across the forum what is their benefits as they work, here is a well known forum with over millions of user and if possible hundreds of person signing up everyday by day.

Payment is not what will make it seem like a serious task, every member in the forum appreciates what merit sources, staffs, reporters and mods do, but it does not have to feel like an employment opportunity for it to be appreciated. Their benefit is that this is a community, and if you can assist or volunteer in your little way to its development, you'll be appreciated by the community in some other way than payment.

Satoshi who did most of the work wasn't paid, but even went away without asking for anything. By the way, i have checked and mods and staffs are paid something small as volunteers when the forum sold ad space, i do not know about now.

About 25% of ad income goes to the forum moderators as thanks for all of their work. (There are many moderators, so each moderator gets only a small amount -- moderators should be seen as volunteers, not employees.)

[Jet Cash]

I'm a merit source, and I don't think I should be paid for awarding merits. I'm extremely erratic, and I don't want to change, so I don't think I deserve payment for my behaviour, or lack of it.

Logically, if one is paying merit sources, then high merit earners that award their smerits should be paid, and I don't agree with that either.