[POLL] Should there be a 🍀 BTC AIRDROP 🍀 to Bitcointalk Merit Sources

[fillippone]

If merit source are paid for, then I'm sure there will be a lot of drama going on in this forum about merit system.

Drama would be the first “unintended consequence” I was referring to on my previous answer, but there would be more subtle effects.

On the other hand, it’s true moderator have some kind of subsidy for their work, and they are able to manage the drama and burden of it.

And I am sure the merit system is at least as important to moderation to have a readable forum.

Not an as weird argument as I initially thought.

[1714236353]

1714236353

[1714236353]

1714236353

[1714236353]

1714236353

[1714236353]

1714236353

[Sandra_hakeem]

that'll incure an expenses -- to a magnitude that the forum managements would have to squeeze out to get funds, just to get 'em paid -- these will definitely happen after the forum's run bankrupt already.

The forum sits on 750 BTC or so. There is very little chance for Bitcointalk to go bankrupt.

No Malek, I totally disagree with that. AFAIK, there isn't an amount that can't get exhausted, over time. I understand that you'd like the idea for some personal gain, yunno but again, 750btcs could get exhausted if there's not an immediate means to rejuvenate cash for that minimal expenses. I'm not against you or any merit source getting paid ( who knows if I'd become one someday?)? but this is a community that we all would wish -- EARNESTLY -- for her well being; pulling out SATs unnecessarily isn't an actual factor to guarantee the later process,(even if I were a Merit-source, I won't actually support that.......it wouldn't mean that I don't need those few bucks but, ......we need to grow)

I still stand on my already proven point: if Merit-sources are served some SATs as a way to say "thank you", that should be on merit-base; "Most logically -generous giver" , "most concerned" , "most consistent" etc..... Monthly or annually as the case might be. Yes, a worker is entitled to some wages; think of the "whole drama" behind this gorgeous illusions.
Edit: I was just trying to lookup myself in sources' shoes; honestly I'll say no unless I'm asked otherwise.

Sandra 💇

[Pmalek]

I understand that you'd like the idea for some personal gain, yunno but again, 750btcs could get exhausted if there's not an immediate means to rejuvenate cash for that minimal expenses. I'm not against you or any merit source getting paid ( who knows if I'd become one someday?)? but this is a community that we all would wish -- EARNESTLY -- for her well being; pulling out SATs unnecessarily isn't an actual factor to guarantee the later process,(even if I were a Merit-source, I won't actually support that.......it wouldn't mean that I don't need those few bucks but, ......we need to grow)

I am surprised by you to be honest. How did you manage to interpret my reply as a sign that I want to get paid for being a merit source when the post you quoted begins with:

As a merit source, I voted no.

And a few sentences later I said:

It can't really be considered "work" that deserves monetary reward.

I thought you were better than that Sandra, and then you go and say something like that.

[Peanutswar]

Being a merit source is like voluntarily giving your service to the community, having a good reputation and being a good contributor by that you build your own personality in the forum which is really credible by that you can apply as a merit source but getting a reward is an option only, there's a chance if being a merit source becomes paid there's an instance a lot of application getting submitted because it is monetized, becomes a merit source is an opportunity and willingness to help and don't expect a change or reward.

[Sandra_hakeem]

It can't really be considered "work" that deserves monetary reward.

I thought you were better than that Sandra, and then you go and say something like that.

I'm sorry 'bout my misinterpretations; yes, I accept the fact that I misunderstood you. I can assure you that - that wasn't intentional. The thing is, maybe I missed some points when I was reading your replies earlier, deeply sorry  . Yes, I'm still myself and that's unchanged. To be honest, I was really tired but, I had to reply so maybe I read a comment somewhere?? ( I don't know). I gave some merit point for the inconveniences.
Off topic: Gloves, you good? Yeah, I sure hope you'd realize the same thing too, maybe earlier than I did.... Ssssss....fucked up atimes.

Sandra 💇

[PowerGlove]

I voted no, because I don't see how attaching a financial incentive to being a merit source can do anything but (indirectly) harm the forum. It's kind of like running a donkey sanctuary; there's no profit in it, so the kind of people that gravitate towards that type of work really care about the donkeys.

Off topic: Gloves, you good? Yeah, I sure hope you'd realize the same thing too, maybe earlier than I did.... Ssssss....fucked up atimes.

Yup, all good. Honest mistake, honest apology.

[UmerIdrees]

The title speaks for itself, one of the most thankless, time consuming and controversial jobs, for better or worse, Merit system has been in place for almost 5 years now, with absolutely no reward / compensation for the Merit Sources who have done overall an ok job to maintain some semblance of meritocracy in this legendary forum.

What do you guys think ? I believe when used constructively and virtuously, merit is a fantastic tool to encourage higher quality and intellect in crypto space, and a direct reward by the admin (@theymos) towards well performing sources would be a great incentive and accolade for them to do an even better job.

I don't agree that Merit sources are given bitcoin rewards too. They are already given the sort of unlimited amount of smerits to distribute (which other normal users may dream of ), do they need BTC reward too 

Why not give rewards to those who receive a lot of merits? Those are also the real persons who are really helpful to the community who help the community with their informative and knowledgeable posts. After all, bitcointalk is a forum where the posters should be rewarded, if there is any reward to be distributed.

[Pmalek]

I'm sorry 'bout my misinterpretations; yes, I accept the fact that I misunderstood you. I can assure you that - that wasn't intentional.

Don't worry about it. It was funny to see you freak out for a moment though.

They are already given the sort of unlimited amount of smerits to distribute (which other normal users may dream of

All merit sources have a precise number of source merits they get every month. So the numbers are precisely defined, even though they are substantial for some. But there are also those who think they should have more, like The Pharmacist who has publicly stated a request to get more many times. No idea how much he gets, but one could speculate by looking at the data posted in The most generous users giving merits.

Why not give rewards to those who receive a lot of merits? Those are also the real persons who are really helpful to the community who help the community with their informative and knowledgeable posts.

Very often those are the same people. Many belong to the group of the biggest senders and receivers, most trusted, part of DT, staff, etc. That's why on the surface it looks like the game is rigged, but those making the accusations don't see the contributions and effort those "game riggers" and "fraudsters" made and still make to get where they are.

[Rikafip]

But I believe, every forum contributor deserves to get something more for his volunteer work. It wasn't all about money, but maybe something else.

Volunteering means not expecting or asking something in return.

Why not give rewards to those who receive a lot of merits? Those are also the real persons who are really helpful to the community who help the community with their informative and knowledgeable posts. After all, bitcointalk is a forum where the posters should be rewarded, if there is any reward to be distributed.

Why stop there, might as well give free bitcoin to everyone who reaches certain rank, or maybe even everyone who registers? I mean seriously, does every single activity on this forum has to be monetized or in other way recognized via badges/titles etc?

I don't know if people are aware of that, but bitcointalk already has a reputation of a place that exists solely for the purpose of people making money out it (I heard if from quite a few old school bitcoiners that I tried talk into either registering or coming back here) and while I disagree with them and I think that bitcointalk is more than that, if ideas like these were implemented it would be step in that direction.

[The Sceptical Chymist]

If merit source are paid for, then I'm sure there will be a lot of drama going on in this forum about merit system.

No doubt there would be at least some drama, and probably more so than with moderators.  They usually only get criticized when somebody's posts get deleted, and in those cases it's not even a big deal except to the person whose posts got nuked.  

With merit sources, anybody can see how many merits they're giving out and to whom--and I'm sure that data would be analyzed and scrutinized to death, since merits and the ranking up process are of such high importance.  People are going to wonder which merit sources are slacking or look like they're giving preferential treatment to members, or whatever.  And while it's true that there's no public list of who's a merit source, that secret has already been cracked.

I don't agree that Merit sources are given bitcoin rewards too. They are already given the sort of unlimited amount of smerits to distribute (which other normal users may dream of ), do they need BTC reward too  

What?  So you think it's a reward to have a bunch of sMerits that you're required to distribute properly, in addition to carrying the burden of helping the entire merit system function properly?

Merit sources aren't just gifted with a large number of sMerits and that's the end of it.  They're expected to be active in giving them out (even though I don't recall Theymos ever stating as much) and be way more responsible in that task than a non-merit source.  Personally I don't consider it a reward that Theymos tapped me to be a source.  I'm honored that he thought enough of me to make me one (I didn't apply; one day I got a PM saying I was a merit source), but I do feel like I have a job to do even if it isn't a particularly demanding one.

[nutildah]

Might as well do it before all the forum BTC runs out after paying it to the people who are watching the forum BTC...

wait what

[Lucius]

Why stop there, might as well give free bitcoin to everyone who reaches certain rank, or maybe even everyone who registers? I mean seriously, does every single activity on this forum has to be monetized or in other way recognized via badges/titles etc?

Let's not lie to each other, most of the members are here only for profit and are always looking for a way to monetize everything, so I'm not at all surprised that someone had the idea that even merit sources should be paid for their work. Although money has always been the best motivator, some things really shouldn't be motivated that way because it's simply the wrong way.

As for titles and badges, I don't see it as something bad, especially if it is about some achievements that are really worth it and if they would be awarded on special occasions.

[OgNasty]

Might as well do it before all the forum BTC runs out after paying it to the people who are watching the forum BTC...

wait what

I stopped watching the treasury after I got shit canned by theymos.  One of or possibly the last comment I made about it was that I felt myself and others were significantly overpaid and suggested we take an 80% reduction in treasurer payouts in order to keep the forum's cash flow responsible.  What do I know though...  I was the guy who thought the forum wanted a few million extra dollars by claiming airdrops and was then vilified for it.  I assume that the financial situation is still fine, but it seems rather obvious that the whole 1 BTC equals 1 BTC standard that is being attempted here is at the detriment of the forum's savings.

I think reducing the treasurer payouts and using some of those funds to distribute to those sending merit (not just merit sources) via the lightning network would be a positive advancement for the site, would give a use case for the lightning network, and would spur lightning adoption among forum users.  I think the payouts should be so small and widespread that it would be considered hobby income or donations to avoid having to collect personal information on everyone while also not giving much incentive to try and cheat the system.  Maybe more merit sources would want to step forward and the merits currently being distributed to merit sources could be reduced and spread out to more longtime trustworthy members as well.  Would be fun.

The 0.325BTC amount is for the entire month, and does not appear to pay all the forum's expenses. As I noted, the forum spent 56% of that on mod payments, and Loyce noted the forum accrued a liability to pay the treasurers 77% that. That means the forum spent 133% of ad revenue on expenses before hosting costs, which I imagine to be four figures /USD per month.

With the much higher Bitcoin exchange rate this year, I believe it would be making an assumption to think the BTC payment to treasurers would remain the same going forward.  I find it a bit unlikely that this would be the case.  I would even go as far as to propose an 80% reduction in the BTC amount paid to treasurers going forward and think that could be done by theymos without anyone involved having an issue.

[Fivestar4everMVP]

its an interesting idea but i am also not surprised that the third option in the poll is leading, the job or rather, task of a merit source is a voluntary task which was not forced on any member, those who choose to become merit sources did so by making an application post directed to theymos knowing fully well its not a paid task.

I personally think the forum admin are doing enough already by doing all they can to keep this forum running peacefully, paying for various services as well as the moderators, before we ask them to reward merit sources, first ask them how much they generate from this forum on monthly basis and how much they spend on maintaining the forum.

It is my opinion that if it is important to reward merit sources for their selfless services on this forum, then it is our responsibility as community members, since their service is to us and not to the forum admins, we as community members can come together and maybe organize a freewill donation, whatever amount raised at the end, we forward it to the merit sources as an appreciation for their services to the community. 

[BlackHatCoiner]

No, there shouldn't. There's already reward: less spam. Besides, I don't remember myself demanding this position or doing a merit source interview; I was just selected, according to my preferences. I wasn't inactive sMerit sender before. I just started spending more frequently, and with greater amounts. I was also trusted to handle this; prestige is part of the reward.

[Scripture]

We only have one merit source in our local section and he's not active anymore, how can he deserve an airdrop for being a merit source?

Is there any way to replace a merit source even if someone is not applying for a merit source?
We have a very low merit distribution with our local thread and I see the inactive of our merit source as one of the reason why our local group was left behind. Being a merit source is a privilege and not a job, I don't see any reason to give them an airdrop.

[Timelord2067]

Had there been a vote option "If you don't want to do it, step aside and let someone else do it" then that would have been my choice, instead I voted no.

Thankless or not, by handing out additional merits, you agreed not to be paid.

[Rikafip]

Is there any way to replace a merit source even if someone is not applying for a merit source?

It is possible to become a merit source even without applying for it so I guess theymos could do that next time when he readjusts merit sources, but I wouldn't count on it (especially if you lack merit in your local board, and Philippines board is definitely short on merit).

[LoyceV]

Why not give rewards to those who receive a lot of merits?

That sounds a lot like competition for the Foxpup Merit cycling Club

Seriously though: bad idea. Remember the forum's mission:

the forum's mission to be as free as possible.

I can't think of any way how paying Merit sources or Merit earners makes the forum more free.

[Pmalek]

the job or rather, task of a merit source is a voluntary task which was not forced on any member, those who choose to become merit sources did so by making an application post directed to theymos knowing fully well its not a paid task.

It would be interesting to get some stats on how many people applied and were accepted to become merit sources and how many were handpicked by theymos and his staff personally. But it's impossible to get accurate data on the subject. I never applied or considered becoming one until one day I got PMed and informed I am a merit source. 

I can't think of any way how paying Merit sources or Merit earners makes the forum more free.

It's simple:

1. Come up with a bulletproof system to pay merit sources on a regular basis.
2. Distribute bitcoin to provided addresses.
3. ...
4. Freedom.