Rollbit.com scamming $10,000 USD [Careful not to bet in their casino!] ❗

[Lak93xy]

I am not sure why they allow their customers to use multiple accounts at the same time because there is too much room for abuse there.

I am looking at their FAQ and the part you mentioned about alt-accounts. Yes, they do allow it, but you are forgetting the most important part of that rule. You can use alt accounts as long as you have not created another account for nefarious purposes. 


 

I partly agree with you here. BUT, second line says "We reserve the right to disable accounts that have been created with the intention to abuse our bonus, coupon and chat features".

So while they start off with using the generic "nefarious purposes", they go into more detail what they exactly mean with that.

And as i said before, i do think that it has to be stated in the terms of service, if u dont want people to create new accounts to get refreshed betting limits. Every other site does that.

Im not multi accounting on any other platform, because of exactly this reason.


Furthermore regarding sportsbetting, they do have this line i pointed out before

Also, I just found this:

"3.26. In case of suspicion of unfair activity, Sportsbook platform reserves the right to void any bet or any part of it, thus making the questionable bet invalid (in these cases, the payout is made with odds of “1”) or suspend any withdrawals for up to 31 calendar days."

"suspend any withdrawals for up to 31 calendar days."
The problem here is that you can't just change your rules the way you like. Or are the customers the only ones that have to act according to the ToS while Rollbit can just spit on them? If we would assume that you declare my behavior "unfair", the maximum punishment here should be to suspend my withdrawal for 31 calendar days. In addition, this is not the case on this account, because I haven't placed a single bet on the account in question.

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[Pmalek]

And that's where it's not clear. How would they are going to define nefarious purposes.

Well, that's the thing. Anyway they want to. It's up to them to decide if what the player does is nefarious. Accepting the terms means agreeing to all of them. And one of the points is that they can close an account for any reason they want. It's bullshit, it's wrong, but hey, gamblers decided that traditional fiat casinos weren't good enough. In that case, enjoy the "safe wild wild west" of crypto gambling. Since OP's account got locked, it's safe to assume that his use of multiple accounts was considered as nefarious.

If all looks correct then why would a user will create more than one account at all?

There aren't many valid reasons to be honest. One I can think of is if you lose access to your 1st account or you get it hacked and you can no longer gamble from it. If the associated email is gone as well, you will have no way to recover it. Maybe the support can help, but who knows? Creating a new account in this case would be a justified reason.

I partly agree with you here. BUT, second line says "We reserve the right to disable accounts that have been created with the intention to abuse our bonus, coupon and chat features".

So while they start off with using the generic "nefarious purposes", they go into more detail what they exactly mean with that.

No, I don't think that's what it means. I don't think that second part cancels out the previous one. They go into more details regarding the reasons why accounts can be locked, and that's where they mention bonus abuse and those other examples. But the restriction for creating accounts for "nefarious purposes" is still there. 

Furthermore regarding sportsbetting, they do have this line i pointed out before

Also, I just found this:

"3.26. In case of suspicion of unfair activity, Sportsbook platform reserves the right to void any bet or any part of it, thus making the questionable bet invalid (in these cases, the payout is made with odds of “1”) or suspend any withdrawals for up to 31 calendar days."

That's got nothing to do with your case. That's about things like match fixing, wrong odds, open markets for betting when they should be closed, etc. Let's say you are watching a football match and a team scores a goal, but the betting provider fails to close the markets in time due to human error, and that allows you to still submit bets in a situation where the result has changed and all betting should be disabled. If that happened, the casino would have the right to cancel and void such bets.

I don't think you should have used your accounts in this way. Btw, have you reached out to Rollbit's forum account and informed them to comment in this thread? I think you should do that. I am also going to tag LoyceV in this post. I like the way he thinks and how he analyzed some other situations in the past involving scams and abuses. @LoyceV, whenever you get a chance...   

[Lak93xy]

The most common reason for people to create sub accounts is, to send money there to "vault" it.
Lets say you win 1k. Some people will send 500 to their second account to have it secure.
Most of them obviously end up sending it back to the first one tho.
Another example is, people thinking their seed will change. So they hope for "better luck".

I don't think you should have used your accounts in this way. Btw, have you reached out to Rollbit's forum account and informed them to comment in this thread? I think you should do that. I am also going to tag LoyceV in this post. I like the way he thinks and how he analyzed some other situations in the past involving scams and abuses. @LoyceV, whenever you get a chance...   

After the Admin sent the sarcastic message, i replied to him with this thread and told him he should explain himself public. Left me on read. So yea, i did reach out to them.

[Pmalek]

The most common reason for people to create sub accounts is, to send money there to "vault" it.
Lets say you win 1k. Some people will send 500 to their second account to have it secure.

That's what private and non-custodial wallets are for. Not a primary or secondary account on a centralized service such as an online casino or an exchange where the "vaulted" money can be taken away from you at any time.

After the Admin sent the sarcastic message, i replied to him with this thread and told him he should explain himself public. Left me on read. So yea, i did reach out to them.

That was a member of their support team. I am talking about the person representing them on Bitcointalk. The account you linked to under "Scammers Profile Link". Rollbitcom should be made aware of this accusation.

[BitcoinGirl.Club]

And that's where it's not clear. How would they are going to define nefarious purposes.

Well, that's the thing. Anyway they want to. It's up to them to decide if what the player does is nefarious. Accepting the terms means agreeing to all of them. And one of the points is that they can close an account for any reason they want. It's bullshit, it's wrong, but hey, gamblers decided that traditional fiat casinos weren't good enough. In that case, enjoy the "safe wild wild west" of crypto gambling. Since OP's account got locked, it's safe to assume that his use of multiple accounts was considered as nefarious.

If all looks correct then why would a user will create more than one account at all?

There aren't many valid reasons to be honest. One I can think of is if you lose access to your 1st account or you get it hacked and you can no longer gamble from it. If the associated email is gone as well, you will have no way to recover it. Maybe the support can help, but who knows? Creating a new account in this case would be a justified reason.

The arguments can be made from either side. Honestly, having a rule allowing multi account with a very unspecified term does not look good for a gambling website. It must be either you do or do not. Gambling sites are always hiding their bad practice behind their shady terms and for crypto business it's easier to abuse users because there are very lower chance to take legal actions by the customers.

[Lak93xy]

That was a member of their support team. I am talking about the person representing them on Bitcointalk. The account you linked to under "Scammers Profile Link". Rollbitcom should be made aware of this accusation.

No, Razer is an Admin/Owner of Rollbit. I initially was connected with a normal Support agent, but he took over at somepoint. I am familiar with their Staff team, and im sure someone who plays on rollbit can confirm that razer is an Admin/Owner.

[Pmalek]

The arguments can be made from either side. Honestly, having a rule allowing multi account with a very unspecified term does not look good for a gambling website. It must be either you do or do not. Gambling sites are always hiding their bad practice behind their shady terms and for crypto business it's easier to abuse users because there are very lower chance to take legal actions by the customers.

Whenever you see terms that can be interpreted in two different ways, where one way favors the casino and the other favors the player, and it's a 50/50 kind of a situation, be sure that they are going to use those terms against you if they can. Just forget about it and go elsewhere.

No matter what the FAQs say, no matter what the support says, no matter what other players or the community says, I believe the player should never have created multiple accounts to increase their betting limits. 

No, Razer is an Admin/Owner of Rollbit. I initially was connected with a normal Support agent, but he took over at somepoint.

Oh, ok. I didn't know that.

[LoyceV]

I am also going to tag LoyceV in this post. I like the way he thinks and how he analyzed some other situations in the past involving scams and abuses. @LoyceV, whenever you get a chance...

I'll read the topic. And I've posted in Rollbit's topic to respond here.

Obviously, I saw an opportunity there to gamble with bigger amounts even if I do get limited.

Did you use multiple accounts to bet more than the limit on a certain bet?

Again, I'm not denying multi-accounting at all. But as I said before, nothing in their ToC is stating that it's not allowed to create new accounts or "abuse" their sportsbook (which I haven't).

Any chance Rollbit can explain what action of yours was nefarious?

1 hour later he messaged me over the support with the following sarcastic message:

This doesn't make sense. If you abused sportsbook, they should provide evidence. And if they appreciate you depositing back the allegedly stolen funds, it doesn't make sense asking not to open more accounts so they can further "recoup losses".

I created another account and deposited 10.000$ in bitcoin (which for me is a big amount).

For the record: betting with money that you consider a big amount is probably not the best way to spend your money.

Using multiple accounts to undo set betting limitations can be a reason for termination because of "Any reason whatsoever".
And when that happened, you lost your right to continue using their service ("Your right to use the Service will cease immediately"). That can mean any actions such as depositing, wagering, withdrawing, etc.

Terms that state they can do whatever they want "for any reason" are unfair. "The user deposited $10k (or $1 million)" would also be "any reason", but doesn't justify they take your money.

@OP: this story sounds familiar: did you use another Bitcointalk account before this one?

[Lak93xy]

Did you use multiple accounts to bet more than the limit on a certain bet?

No, i did not. I never crossbet anything, as this wasnt my intention & i am aware that this actually would abuse limits. I always only bet my bets on one account.

@OP: this story sounds familiar: did you use another Bitcointalk account before this one?

This is my first and only Account here!

[Pmalek]

Did you use multiple accounts to bet more than the limit on a certain bet?

No, i did not. I never crossbet anything, as this wasnt my intention & i am aware that this actually would abuse limits. I always only bet my bets on one account.

I don't understand. You wrote that you saw a chance to gamble with bigger amounts even if you got limited. Why did you need a second account, and why couldn't the wagers be placed from only one account? 

Obviously, I saw an opportunity there to gamble with bigger amounts even if I do get limited. In case I did get limited, I just created a new account.

3 Days ago, I created another account and deposited 10.000$ in bitcoin.

Why the second account? What was wrong with your primary account? I personally find it suspicious that you express a willingness to gamble with bigger amounts (than you should) and you state that having multiple accounts would allow you to do that in case you got limited, and then you got limited for some abuse (apparently) but you claim you never did anything wrong.

The thing is - I was just betting on NBA and some soccer here & there.

These bets must have been placed with the first account you had on the casino because you state that you got limited as soon as you opened and deposited the $10.000 on your second account. Same question as previously, if everything was OK with your first account, why the need to bet with a new one?

1. Up until this point, no bans have been handed out to me or any warnings, merely betting limits were lowered. I got limited, and just cashed out my Account.

So you admit there were issues with your first account? It got limited, you cashed out your winnings, and after that you created a second account. Is that the sequence of events?

[Lak93xy]

I don't understand. You wrote that you saw a chance to gamble with bigger amounts even if you got limited. Why did you need a second account, and why couldn't the wagers be placed from only one account?

I am not quite sure if you are familiar with what "being limited" means in terms of sports betting.
A casino/sportsbook, can decide to limit your account to only be able to bet a specific amount on sports.
Let's say I open a fresh account. I will be able to bet 10k on NBA in one match. I win the bet, and the casino decides to limit me. This is a normal procedure happening on sportsbooks, and doesn't mean that you have done anything wrong. Most of the time it's because the Platform thinks you are a winning player.

On a normal site that doesn't allow multi-accounting, I will accept this and leave their platform. On Rollbit tho, it was fine to replace an old account with a new one to get better limits. Which I have repeated like 25 times now.

[Lak93xy]

 Why the second account? What was wrong with your primary account? I personally find it suspicious that you express a willingness to gamble with bigger amounts (than you should) and you state that having multiple accounts would allow you to do that in case you got limited, and then you got limited for some abuse (apparently) but you claim you never did anything wrong.

Please understand the difference between banning an account & being limited. The last account was BANNED for "abuse". The other accounts just had smaller limits on gambling. Nothing else, obviously I'll open up another account to bet with higher limits if they promote it. Therefore, with the old accounts, I was able to withdraw my money and leave their site. In some cases, not withdraw and leave the site.

Just bringing it out again, I bet on NBA and soccer mostly. I could have lost on the betting as well - I bet Rollbit team would have never banned me in that case and would have kept encouraging me to open up more accounts.

[Lak93xy]

These bets must have been placed with the first account you had on the casino because you state that you got limited as soon as you opened and deposited the $10.000 on your second account. Same question as previously, if everything was OK with your first account, why the need to bet with a new one?

The same answer as previously, my account got limited on sports betting. So I created a new one because they promote you to open up more accounts.

So you admit there were issues with your first account? It got limited, you cashed out your winnings, and after that you created a second account. Is that the sequence of events?

I didn't say there were any issues in my first account, no. I just jumped to a new account whenever I felt so... Usually just to get better limits. The reason I used multiple accounts was, again (as mentioned before) because it was allowed within their rules to do so.

[TwitchySeal]

OP, can you clarify what specifically happened to your initial account?  You said it got limited, they said it got permanently banned.  Those aren't the same thing.

Did you receive any communications about being permanently banned and/or limited?  Is the account still open and able to wager in the casino? 

[Lak93xy]

OP, can you clarify what specifically happened to your initial account?  You said it got limited, they said it got permanently banned.  Those aren't the same thing.

Did you receive any communications about being permanently banned and/or limited?  Is the account still open and able to wager in the casino? 

Hi, i got purely limited on sportsbetting. I can still wager on casino etc. And no, no communication. Just wasnt able to bet more than a certain amount anymore on sports.

[Pmalek]

I am not quite sure if you are familiar with what "being limited" means in terms of sports betting.
A casino/sportsbook, can decide to limit your account to only be able to bet a specific amount on sports.

I know exactly what being limited means and that was my point this whole time. Your first account got limited to restrict you to bet no more than X on sports, so you created a second one to get greater limits and bet XXX. That is the reason for account closure. The first account wouldn't allow you to wager $10.000 because of the limits, and you wanted to do it through the second one. Whether or not you succeeded, I don't know. You say you didn't, but the intention was clearly there.

On a normal site that doesn't allow multi-accounting, I will accept this and leave their platform. On Rollbit tho, it was fine to replace an old account with a new one to get better limits. Which I have repeated like 25 times now.

I don't think it was fine to do it. It could surely be considered a nefarious use of their services.

[TwitchySeal]

OP, can you clarify what specifically happened to your initial account?  You said it got limited, they said it got permanently banned.  Those aren't the same thing.

Did you receive any communications about being permanently banned and/or limited?  Is the account still open and able to wager in the casino?  

Hi, i got purely limited on sportsbetting. I can still wager on casino etc. And no, no communication. Just wasnt able to bet more than a certain amount anymore on sports.

If they gave you no warning and just took your deposit then obviously that's a scam.

Rollbit is a decent sized site that's been around for a while with a pretty good reputation, so before anyone jumps to conclusions , it's worth pointing out: There's been a recent trend of players that find some sort of edge involving match fixing or getting ahead of the live betting lines.  They get limited, warned not to make any more accounts.  After they keep making more and more accounts, the site eventually starts freezing their funds - so the they come here and tell half the story as if they are only behind the last couple new accounts they made, and not the dozens before that which were warned, in attempt to get their money back.  

I'm not going to jump to a conclusion either way at this point.  But, your story lines up perfectly with the MO of the person/people that have been doing this, and it also explains why rollbit rubbed it in by thanking you for the $10k.  In fact, I'm not saying I know this is true, but it would make total sense if you were also the OP of this thread: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5416690.0

Hopefully we hear from rollbit soon.

[LoyceV]

A casino/sportsbook, can decide to limit your account to only be able to bet a specific amount on sports.
Let's say I open a fresh account. I will be able to bet 10k on NBA in one match. I win the bet, and the casino decides to limit me. This is a normal procedure happening on sportsbooks, and doesn't mean that you have done anything wrong. Most of the time it's because the Platform thinks you are a winning player.

I get that this is "normal" in sports betting, but to me (as someone who doesn't use it), it sounds shady. The house edge should be enough to cover the casino's profit, and allowing winning users lower bets than losing users doesn't seem fair.

Your first account got limited to restrict you to bet no more than X on sports, so you created a second one to get greater limits and bet XXX. That is the reason for account closure.

Closing the account: sure!
Keeping the deposit: from what I've read here, I don't think that's justified.

I don't think it was fine to do it. It could surely be considered a nefarious use of their services.

I don't think so:

They could have easily added it to the above list: "We reserve the right to disable accounts that have been created with the intention to abuse our bonus, coupon and chat features, or circumvent account limits.
What's the difference between OP creating a new account and betting $10,000 on a certain game, or me doing the exact same thing?

Rollbit is a decent sized site that's been around for a while with a pretty good reputation, so before anyone jumps to conclusions , it's worth pointing out: There's been a recent trend of players that find some sort of edge involving match fixing or getting ahead of the live betting lines.

I've seen similar cases on other sites, that's why I asked if OP has more accounts here. It would be nice if Rollbit shares their side of the story here. If there's match fixing involved, it should be mentioned (and proven).

[Pmalek]

I get that this is "normal" in sports betting, but to me (as someone who doesn't use it), it sounds shady. The house edge should be enough to cover the casino's profit, and allowing winning users lower bets than losing users doesn't seem fair.

I don't think fair has anything to do with it. Life isn't fair. Limiting and restricting winning players is something that traditional fiat bookies do as well simply because they like taking your money, not giving it to you. That's not fair, I don't like it, and I don't agree with it. It's still happening though. It's their business and their rules sadly.

Closing the account: sure!
Keeping the deposit: from what I've read here, I don't think that's justified.

Maybe OP isn't telling us the whole story. Remember the Razer admin (or whatever his name is) saying something like thanks for depositing part of the money back to us. OP could have been doing this for longer than he cares to admit. I am just speculating of course.

I don't think so:

They could have easily added it to the above list: "We reserve the right to disable accounts that have been created with the intention to abuse our bonus, coupon and chat features, or circumvent account limits.

It would be clearer, sure. I still see it as an abusive way to try to get around betting restrictions the provider set on your account and you as a person. The first account got limited. The reasons why don't matter. Just that it did. OP noticed it, so he created a new account to bet more than he could with his first account. How is that not abuse or attempted abuse? Imagine there is a raffle on the forum. It's available for everyone except legendary members and their alts. So to participate in that raffle, you enroll your Loyce mobile account. Didn't you try to cheat and abuse the system by doing that?

What's the difference between OP creating a new account and betting $10,000 on a certain game, or me doing the exact same thing?

I am not sure what you mean. If you both have limited accounts that you are aware of and you registered new accounts to circumvent those restrictions, you have both attempted to cheat and use your accounts in "nefarious" ways. If you didn't have a previous limited account or attempted to wager above a maximum allowed betting amount, then you are good to go.

[LoyceV]

Imagine there is a raffle on the forum. It's available for everyone except legendary members and their alts. So to participate in that raffle, you enroll your Loyce mobile account. Didn't you try to cheat and abuse the system by doing that?

Lol, I did exactly that Just for fun, of course.

I am not sure what you mean.

I mean that anyone else could have placed the same bet. What if OP asked his neighbour to place the bet? It's just weird to assume one person is more likely to win. If that's the case, sports betting is flawed.