Bitcoin Forum

Rollbit = SCAM Casino - not honoring their Terms & Conditions.

Hi, fellow Bitcointalk members.
I am writing because of a serious incident with Rollbit.com (http://Rollbit.com) casino.
It is merely about their immoral and dishonest business practices - namely the way they treated me, by seizing my whole deposit of $10,000 USD.
Hopefully, I can get some attention from them here and we can solve it. Because, on their website, they just ignored it and were unable to give me any explanations.

Please give me my funds back, and let's call it a day.



What happened?

Rollbit launched its sportsbook a while ago. I'm sure I'm not the only punter who raised some eyebrows seeing this, because as most know they allow multi-accounting & IP masking.

I waited for the release and checked their ToC carefully - to be sure it was just not a mistake on their side regarding multi-accounting and IP masking. So I waited for quite some time before starting, but they never updated their terms. I even asked the support and the chat and they all said it is fine to multi-account and that the usage of VPNs/Proxies is not against their rules. Obviously, I saw an opportunity there to gamble with bigger amounts even if I do get limited. In case I did get limited, I just created a new account.

3 Days ago, I created another account and deposited 10.000$ in bitcoin (which for me is a big amount). When I wanted to place a bet, I noticed that my account had been already limited. I couldn't wager a single dollar on anything. Obviously, I went to withdraw it all. However, due to the AML laws, you have to wager your deposits at least once, so they declined my withdrawal (which is fine and honest of course). After waiting for a day or two, I asked them what was going on and why the AML investigation was taking so long. They just ignored me. I even offered that I can just wager the whole amount through in slots just so I can get at least some of my money back (which they, of course, ignored).
The whole process took them until today.
I kept asking for more information and further updates, but my messages were never read.



After that, I decided to make my case public in their live chat. The admin "Razer" started replying to me in public chat saying that he was familiar with my case and will speed things up.
1 hour later he messaged me over the support with the following sarcastic message:
https://i.imgur.com/dwDVO0a.png
As you can see - he was just mocking me, Rollbit admitting to scamming me, and just taking my own deposited money from me without any reason. The thing is - I was just betting on NBA and some soccer here & there. It was a fair way to punt and I could have hit the wrong end of the variance as well and lost it all. But for them, it's 'abusing' their system. I am deeply disappointed.



Again, I'm not denying multi-accounting at all. But as I said before, nothing in their ToC is stating that it's not allowed to create new accounts or "abuse" their sportsbook (which I haven't).
https://i.imgur.com/rq4q3Bj.png
"abuse our bonus, coupon, and chat features" have nothing to do with me gambling on multiple accounts.

I wanna underline once again that the money they are scamming here, is 100% my own money. Not a cent is from any winning on this account. Just my own deposit.



EDIT: added proof from live chat for the ones who are too lazy to scan the whole thread:



Scammers Profile Link: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=3067300

Amount Scammed: 0.48534854 BTC

Payment Method: BTC

Proof of Payment: https://www.blockchain.com/btc/tx/3754cce9b49beeddceb726e5ea77083102a94984725de40d429d9f02c3889461



I really hope that I can get it solved, please Staff of Rollbit - do something about it!

Thing with sportsbooks is that limits are meant to be per-user (sometimes, household) and they usually don't like it when you try to avoid them with multi-accounting.

Can you help point out to us where they say that they allow multiaccounting and IP masking?

Why do you keep going back to a place you are not wanted? What's the point?
They banned you from using their platform, why then do you go ahead and create a new account in the same platform? Don't you see that you are also part of them problem?

1. Up until this point, no bans have been handed out to me or any warnings, merely betting limits were lowered. I got limited, and just cashed out my Account.

2. Per-user or household restrictions are not brought out in the ToS.

3. There are no rules against people using multiple accounts. In fact, they even have it in their FAQ as you can see in the Screenshot i provided.

If you're not welcome to place bets thats one thing but they shouldn't take your money and refuse to let you withdraw what you have deposited.

Also, I just found this:




"suspend any withdrawals for up to 31 calendar days."
The problem here is that you can't just change your rules the way you like. Or are the customers the only ones that have to act according to the ToS while Rollbit can just spit on them? If we would assume that you declare my behavior "unfair", the maximum punishment here should be to suspend my withdrawal for 31 calendar days. In addition, this is not the case on this account, because I haven't placed a single bet on the account in question.

I would like to hear what rollbit has to say or someone from their team . This is a big accusation and i think we need to hear their side aswell. Hopefully someone comes and solves this problem.

The problem start here, why you're not contact the live support first when your first account got limited, why you just directly create a new account? if they give you limit, this mean there's something on your account. I think Rollbit consider this act as "nefarious" since you're want to escape from the limit by create a new account.

I'd think Rollbit isn't wrong in this accusation, you're just greedy want to maximize your profit without think twice.

*without thinking twice.


Why the OP hasn't used other sites instead?!  ???

If he is that successful what's so special about this site Rollbit?

That is not the point. I confirmed multiple times if multi-accounting was fine & it was. I haven't broken a single term or condition that they've set on their website. Again, has nothing to do with being greedy or not. If I am beating the bookies then it is what it is. Again I bet on NBA and I could have lost too, they wouldn't bat an eye then. Just because I ended up on a winning streak, Rollbit decided to steal my money.

I really liked Rollbit. An odd question really... What does my 'success' have to do with anything?

Also how do you jump to the conclusion i am not using other sites aswell? I am, just not multi accounting on other sites, since its not allowed!

But since it is on Rollbit (as you can see on the provided screenshot), i kept using their site.

The easy solution is to send the remaining balance (since you are limited) to the address that the coin came from. Have you used a noncustodial wallet?

I am calling it nonsense.
From the description above even from the commonsense, when the user deposited, he did not deposit to intend to give the fund back. Saying it appreciating for fund back is just a lie.

It would be nice to hear from Rollbit representative before you move further. Like leaving a negative tag or even creating a flag.

Yea, thats what i did. Requested the withdrawal to the Wallet i initially deposited with. They banned my account tho. Its not like this is still pending. So far they took my money and shut me out.

What exactly do you mean with that?

You should contact the casino representative on the forum to your concerns in this thread.
contact them and take them to explain your loss problem before you create a tag or flag for a casino representative account.
when all is proven a mistake by the casino, of course, the other members will support your flag. but given Rollbit's current reputation, I doubt they did anything that could hurt their business.
so we wait for them to come if you have contacted them.

Woow that a huge amount of money and regarding your issue, I don't think it's fair to ban a player's account while you doesn't breach their tos(creating multiple accounts). Sorry to hear this op and hopefully you can get back your hard earned money! :-\

Support only gives prefabricated standard answers and even after 72 hours you only get the same answer, always excuses.

@https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=3067300 (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=3067300) This Rollbit.com scammer suck! let's expose this scammer and make everyone aware of this casino if this case still unresolved.

I guess for this issue if you have time you can seek help for legal authorities who's expert to handle crypto scamming cases in your country.

Im not quite sure what you are talking about. The chat message i screenshoted, is from one of Rollbits admins/owners. He said "thanks for depositing some of the funds back".
I did reply to this, but i didnt receive any answers.

Furthermore my account with the deposit is already banned.

I do understand what you are trying to say, but i just told here what happened. I would be very happy, if someone comes forward from their side and answers to this, as im getting ignored by them. I do feel like i can flag them already, because as of now, they scammed me.

Their site shows in the bottom:

Copyright © 2022 rollbit.com. All rights reserved. Rollbit is a brand name of Bull Gaming N.V. Company Address: Abraham de Veerstraat 9, Willemstad, Curacao

Their company is registered there but they don't seem to have a license.

Not sure what to do in this case, just spread your story to as many people as possible over the web.

I am not sure why they allow their customers to use multiple accounts at the same time because there is too much room for abuse there.

I am looking at their FAQ and the part you mentioned about alt-accounts. Yes, they do allow it, but you are forgetting the most important part of that rule. You can use alt accounts as long as you have not created another account for nefarious purposes. 
https://rollbit.com/faq

If your first account got limited, and you aren't allowed to place bets above a certain threshold, creating multiple accounts to avoid this restriction can be seen as a "nefarious purpose".If your betting limit is $1.000/day or per match, that doesn't give you the right to create 4 more accounts, so that you can wager a total of $5.000, for example. It might sound harsh, but that's the way they are going to look at it. You are abusing the limits placed on you as an individual.

And when you did that, Rollbit did this:

https://rollbit.com/terms-and-conditions

Using multiple accounts to undo set betting limitations can be a reason for termination because of "Any reason whatsoever".
And when that happened, you lost your right to continue using their service ("Your right to use the Service will cease immediately"). That can mean any actions such as depositing, wagering, withdrawing, etc.

I wish you could get your money back, but I am skeptical about it. Maybe they will agree to do it to look good in front of the community here, but I don't know.
I'm not a lawyer or anything like that. I am just interpreting what I see. I would advice you to seek professional help though to see if you have a case against them. 

And that's where it's not clear. How would they are going to define nefarious purposes. It can work for both side. Advantage for a casino to abuse if the case of the OP is real. On the other hand, users will abuse too. Besides, I don't like the fact they said he was depositing to give the money back (That's what I think abuse from the casino side).

If all looks correct then why would a user will create more than one account at all?

I partly agree with you here. BUT, second line says "We reserve the right to disable accounts that have been created with the intention to abuse our bonus, coupon and chat features".

So while they start off with using the generic "nefarious purposes", they go into more detail what they exactly mean with that.

And as i said before, i do think that it has to be stated in the terms of service, if u dont want people to create new accounts to get refreshed betting limits. Every other site does that.

Im not multi accounting on any other platform, because of exactly this reason.


Furthermore regarding sportsbetting, they do have this line i pointed out before

Well, that's the thing. Anyway they want to. It's up to them to decide if what the player does is nefarious. Accepting the terms means agreeing to all of them. And one of the points is that they can close an account for any reason they want. It's bullshit, it's wrong, but hey, gamblers decided that traditional fiat casinos weren't good enough. In that case, enjoy the "safe wild wild west" of crypto gambling. Since OP's account got locked, it's safe to assume that his use of multiple accounts was considered as nefarious.

There aren't many valid reasons to be honest. One I can think of is if you lose access to your 1st account or you get it hacked and you can no longer gamble from it. If the associated email is gone as well, you will have no way to recover it. Maybe the support can help, but who knows? Creating a new account in this case would be a justified reason.


No, I don't think that's what it means. I don't think that second part cancels out the previous one. They go into more details regarding the reasons why accounts can be locked, and that's where they mention bonus abuse and those other examples. But the restriction for creating accounts for "nefarious purposes" is still there. 

That's got nothing to do with your case. That's about things like match fixing, wrong odds, open markets for betting when they should be closed, etc. Let's say you are watching a football match and a team scores a goal, but the betting provider fails to close the markets in time due to human error, and that allows you to still submit bets in a situation where the result has changed and all betting should be disabled. If that happened, the casino would have the right to cancel and void such bets.

I don't think you should have used your accounts in this way. Btw, have you reached out to Rollbit's forum account and informed them to comment in this thread? I think you should do that. I am also going to tag LoyceV in this post. I like the way he thinks and how he analyzed some other situations in the past involving scams and abuses. @LoyceV, whenever you get a chance...   

The most common reason for people to create sub accounts is, to send money there to "vault" it.
Lets say you win 1k. Some people will send 500 to their second account to have it secure.
Most of them obviously end up sending it back to the first one tho.
Another example is, people thinking their seed will change. So they hope for "better luck".


After the Admin sent the sarcastic message, i replied to him with this thread and told him he should explain himself public. Left me on read. So yea, i did reach out to them.

That's what private and non-custodial wallets are for. Not a primary or secondary account on a centralized service such as an online casino or an exchange where the "vaulted" money can be taken away from you at any time.

That was a member of their support team. I am talking about the person representing them on Bitcointalk. The account you linked to under "Scammers Profile Link". Rollbitcom (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=3067300) should be made aware of this accusation.

The arguments can be made from either side. Honestly, having a rule allowing multi account with a very unspecified term does not look good for a gambling website. It must be either you do or do not. Gambling sites are always hiding their bad practice behind their shady terms and for crypto business it's easier to abuse users because there are very lower chance to take legal actions by the customers.

No, Razer is an Admin/Owner of Rollbit. I initially was connected with a normal Support agent, but he took over at somepoint. I am familiar with their Staff team, and im sure someone who plays on rollbit can confirm that razer is an Admin/Owner.

Whenever you see terms that can be interpreted in two different ways, where one way favors the casino and the other favors the player, and it's a 50/50 kind of a situation, be sure that they are going to use those terms against you if they can. Just forget about it and go elsewhere.

No matter what the FAQs say, no matter what the support says, no matter what other players or the community says, I believe the player should never have created multiple accounts to increase their betting limits. 

Oh, ok. I didn't know that.

I'll read the topic. And I've posted in Rollbit's topic (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5326640.msg61269793#msg61269793) to respond here.

Did you use multiple accounts to bet more than the limit on a certain bet?

Any chance Rollbit can explain what action of yours was nefarious?

This doesn't make sense. If you abused sportsbook, they should provide evidence. And if they appreciate you depositing back the allegedly stolen funds, it doesn't make sense asking not to open more accounts so they can further "recoup losses".

For the record: betting with money that you consider a big amount is probably not the best way to spend your money.

Terms that state they can do whatever they want "for any reason" are unfair. "The user deposited $10k (or $1 million)" would also be "any reason", but doesn't justify they take your money.

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@OP: this story sounds familiar: did you use another Bitcointalk account before this one?

No, i did not. I never crossbet anything, as this wasnt my intention & i am aware that this actually would abuse limits. I always only bet my bets on one account.



This is my first and only Account here!

I don't understand. You wrote that you saw a chance to gamble with bigger amounts even if you got limited. Why did you need a second account, and why couldn't the wagers be placed from only one account? 
Why the second account? What was wrong with your primary account? I personally find it suspicious that you express a willingness to gamble with bigger amounts (than you should) and you state that having multiple accounts would allow you to do that in case you got limited, and then you got limited for some abuse (apparently) but you claim you never did anything wrong.

These bets must have been placed with the first account you had on the casino because you state that you got limited as soon as you opened and deposited the $10.000 on your second account. Same question as previously, if everything was OK with your first account, why the need to bet with a new one?

So you admit there were issues with your first account? It got limited, you cashed out your winnings, and after that you created a second account. Is that the sequence of events?

I am not quite sure if you are familiar with what "being limited" means in terms of sports betting.
A casino/sportsbook, can decide to limit your account to only be able to bet a specific amount on sports.
Let's say I open a fresh account. I will be able to bet 10k on NBA in one match. I win the bet, and the casino decides to limit me. This is a normal procedure happening on sportsbooks, and doesn't mean that you have done anything wrong. Most of the time it's because the Platform thinks you are a winning player.

On a normal site that doesn't allow multi-accounting, I will accept this and leave their platform. On Rollbit tho, it was fine to replace an old account with a new one to get better limits. Which I have repeated like 25 times now.

Please understand the difference between banning an account & being limited. The last account was BANNED for "abuse". The other accounts just had smaller limits on gambling. Nothing else, obviously I'll open up another account to bet with higher limits if they promote it. Therefore, with the old accounts, I was able to withdraw my money and leave their site. In some cases, not withdraw and leave the site.

Just bringing it out again, I bet on NBA and soccer mostly. I could have lost on the betting as well - I bet Rollbit team would have never banned me in that case and would have kept encouraging me to open up more accounts.

The same answer as previously, my account got limited on sports betting. So I created a new one because they promote you to open up more accounts.



I didn't say there were any issues in my first account, no. I just jumped to a new account whenever I felt so... Usually just to get better limits. The reason I used multiple accounts was, again (as mentioned before) because it was allowed within their rules to do so.

OP, can you clarify what specifically happened to your initial account?  You said it got limited, they said it got permanently banned.  Those aren't the same thing.

Did you receive any communications about being permanently banned and/or limited?  Is the account still open and able to wager in the casino? 

Hi, i got purely limited on sportsbetting. I can still wager on casino etc. And no, no communication. Just wasnt able to bet more than a certain amount anymore on sports.

I know exactly what being limited means and that was my point this whole time. Your first account got limited to restrict you to bet no more than X on sports, so you created a second one to get greater limits and bet XXX. That is the reason for account closure. The first account wouldn't allow you to wager $10.000 because of the limits, and you wanted to do it through the second one. Whether or not you succeeded, I don't know. You say you didn't, but the intention was clearly there.

I don't think it was fine to do it. It could surely be considered a nefarious use of their services.

If they gave you no warning and just took your deposit then obviously that's a scam.

Rollbit is a decent sized site that's been around for a while with a pretty good reputation, so before anyone jumps to conclusions , it's worth pointing out: There's been a recent trend of players that find some sort of edge involving match fixing or getting ahead of the live betting lines.  They get limited, warned not to make any more accounts.  After they keep making more and more accounts, the site eventually starts freezing their funds - so the they come here and tell half the story as if they are only behind the last couple new accounts they made, and not the dozens before that which were warned, in attempt to get their money back.  

I'm not going to jump to a conclusion either way at this point.  But, your story lines up perfectly with the MO of the person/people that have been doing this, and it also explains why rollbit rubbed it in by thanking you for the $10k.  In fact, I'm not saying I know this is true, but it would make total sense if you were also the OP of this thread: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5416690.0

Hopefully we hear from rollbit soon.

I get that this is "normal" in sports betting, but to me (as someone who doesn't use it), it sounds shady. The house edge should be enough to cover the casino's profit, and allowing winning users lower bets than losing users doesn't seem fair.

Closing the account: sure!
Keeping the deposit: from what I've read here, I don't think that's justified.

I don't think so:
They could have easily added it to the above list: "We reserve the right to disable accounts that have been created with the intention to abuse our bonus, coupon and chat features, or circumvent account limits.
What's the difference between OP creating a new account and betting $10,000 on a certain game, or me doing the exact same thing?

I've seen similar cases on other sites, that's why I asked if OP has more accounts here. It would be nice if Rollbit shares their side of the story here. If there's match fixing involved, it should be mentioned (and proven).

I don't think fair has anything to do with it. Life isn't fair. Limiting and restricting winning players is something that traditional fiat bookies do as well simply because they like taking your money, not giving it to you. That's not fair, I don't like it, and I don't agree with it. It's still happening though. It's their business and their rules sadly.

Maybe OP isn't telling us the whole story. Remember the Razer admin (or whatever his name is) saying something like thanks for depositing part of the money back to us. OP could have been doing this for longer than he cares to admit. I am just speculating of course.

It would be clearer, sure. I still see it as an abusive way to try to get around betting restrictions the provider set on your account and you as a person. The first account got limited. The reasons why don't matter. Just that it did. OP noticed it, so he created a new account to bet more than he could with his first account. How is that not abuse or attempted abuse? Imagine there is a raffle on the forum. It's available for everyone except legendary members and their alts. So to participate in that raffle, you enroll your Loyce mobile account. Didn't you try to cheat and abuse the system by doing that?

I am not sure what you mean. If you both have limited accounts that you are aware of and you registered new accounts to circumvent those restrictions, you have both attempted to cheat and use your accounts in "nefarious" ways. If you didn't have a previous limited account or attempted to wager above a maximum allowed betting amount, then you are good to go.

Lol, I did exactly that (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5418636.msg61207157#msg61207157) :P Just for fun (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5418636.msg61219384#msg61219384), of course.

I mean that anyone else could have placed the same bet. What if OP asked his neighbour to place the bet? It's just weird to assume one person is more likely to win. If that's the case, sports betting is flawed.

My first account got limited (amounts I can bet on NBA were smaller compared to the initial amounts) - not a single warning from Rollbit about not allowing me to create more accounts or anything. Hence, I just created a new account and deposited $10k. The new account got instantly limited without a single dollar wagered (I wouldn't bet a cent on sports). I contacted support to ask if I could withdraw it since there was no way for me to wager it through in sports, after which they started some KYC/AML process. I even offered them that I can wager my own deposited $10k through in slots, but they didn't even agree to that. Just decided to mock me with the "thank you for depositing money back" thing.


So they just created the multi-accounting allowance to scam people? If it's considered fair use in your eyes, then there's clearly something wrong with this industry, something wrong with you protecting them. If a player plays by the rules and follows every rule and every clause of Rollbit's T&C precisely - it is Rollbit's duty to make sure that they are honored - which they were. Banning someone without a reason and no explanation at all is just bad and careless practice - a dishonest one. Not batting an eye if people lose on multiple accounts, but stealing money from players if they end up winning - should tell you enough.

Furthermore, I've been waiting for days for them to tell their side of the story here, which they have just avoided. Tells you something about it, doesn't it?


Exactly. Not a single warning was given. Just a ban on my account and taking away my deposit. Again, I bet on NBA and big sports. Nothing to do with fixed matches or whatever weird things you mentioned.
I wish I had tracked every bet I've bet in my accounts, you could clearly see that nothing's weird about the things that I've bet.


What does it matter what one interprets as abusive? Not a single rule or warning was given to me not to multi-account to bet on better limits. Just waiting for me to hit a down-swing and then letting me continue? Or what's the case here, why couldn't they just tell me not to multi-account for sports betting when I asked if it's fine? I would have not done it in that case, lol... Instead of giving me a ban-hammer, they could have just given me my money back and just tell me to stop.

Also; i came out with all Infos right at the start. I didnt act like i had only one Account or whatever. So i dont quite understand why im being framed as someone whos trying to tell half of the story.

For a fact i know that Rollbit is aware of this thread, i know that one of their support members has passed it on to the Admins. Still they choose to ignore it so far.

This is important: in what way did they confirm that multi-accounting was fine?

Was it perhaps that multi-accounting was fine... but only for the website in general?
Or did you specifically ask about sportsbetting? If a casino tells you, "don't do this," and you create a new account for that purpose, is that okay?

If you simply asked vague questions multiple times, then you'd get vague answers - which may coalesce into a specific truth you don't like.

Looking at this case from all angles, I must confuse that O.P is to be blamed to some extent. Because in as much as multi-accounting was allowed, you creating a new account immediately after the previous one was limited with the same IP address was kind of fishy and you playing on Rollbits intelligence, of which no casino will ignore such an act. And if you must multi-account, why can't you be smart enough by using different devices with different and unique IP addresses? But instead, you went about using just only 1 which has equally landed you in this mess.

However, everybody has said everything that needed to be said in the previous comments, so what remains now is for Rollbit or its representative to come to tell their own side of the story, because $10,000 is a huge sum to just let go just like that.

Agreed. If a casino tells me "don't do this", I won't do it. However, that's not the core here. The core here is, that I've been playing everything by their own rules. In addition, sports betting is part of their website, so they're not canceling each other out, now do they? Please try to focus on the fact that no rules were broken and everything was fair and square - no warnings were given, nothing. Rollbit waited for me to deposit that $10k and then seized my funds without an explanation.




Exactly. I agree with your statement of "no casino will ignore such an act" under normal circumstances, where they've clearly stated that multi-accounting is prohibited. Rollbit, on the other hand, is a special case here as you can see from the thread - multi-accing is part of their casino and it is what they promote.

Furthermore, I can't wait for their representative to post here either. It would be more than fair for them to explain to us step by step what I've done wrong that gives them the right to take away my money & hopefully in best circumstances just come to their right mind and return to me what's mine.

You.,..didn't answer his question at all. 

Let me be super clear again, just in case another person isn't paying attention or is not taking the whole context into consideration:

» By closely reading their Terms & Conditions, rules, and FAQ.
» By confirming with the support and the Live Chat.
» By asking them multiple times on their official Discord Server.


Multi-accounting is fine on their whole website www.rollbit.com - that includes everything in their casino: from sports betting, slots, battles, to everything else.
Again, the casino didn't tell me "not do this". Instead, it was confirmed multiple times by their own staff that it is fine to multi-account.


How more concrete can it get than their own Terms of Services saying that it is fine to multi-account & their staff confirming that alternative accounts are allowed?

What specifically did you ask them.  That's the question.  Literally, what was the question(s) that you asked.

Damn, I already thought that I can't find any hard proof regarding support and their answers.
Gladly, a friend of mine, who introduced me to Rollbit was smart enough to screenshot his conversations with the Live Chat and to keep them as a piece of evidence.
For what it's worth, he used multiple accounts for sports betting as well.
Yet, for some reason, his funds never got seized... No idea, what was so special about my multi-accounting case (the reason that I ended up winning?).
https://i.ibb.co/mFXnjvR/PROOF-1-A-LC-To-S.jpg

Having fun with it is one thing. But I don't think OP had a practical joke on his mind when he created his second account.

Gambling is flawed and winners are undesirable.
https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/other-sports/mma/ufc-president-dana-white-explains-27741324

I can say the same thing. If you consider using multiple accounts as a workaround to betting limits, then there is something wrong with you and your interpretation of what is fair and what isn't. I am not protecting them. I just don't agree with you and your way of understanding fair usage. I think you knew exactly what you wanted to do but it didn't work. Or maybe it worked for a while until they figured it out. This last part is again speculation based on the support admins answer where he thanked you for giving back a part of the money you allegedly took from the casino.

That's again your interpretation of events. Mine is different and that's why we don't see eye to eye. You think your multi-accounting was cute and innocent fun, I think it was a well thought out move to get greater betting limits, wager more than allowed, and win more.

That we agree on. No matter what decision was taken, they should explain what they think happened and why they did what they did.

Sorry, but it doesn't work that way. Show me where you asked their support if you are allowed to use multiple accounts to circumvent set betting restrictions and they said it's fine to do that!

The reasons and purposes for the multi-accounting is the question, not if it is or it isn't allowed. You didn't ask them the right questions, so they couldn't have given you the correct answers that apply to the way you wanted to use your betting accounts. That screenshot from your friend has nothing to do with your case.

You might have your reasons to defend them. I have my own reasons to protect my funds. It is what it is.
Still, I'm sure if this thing goes official, I am in the right here.

Nevertheless, it's a useless back-and-forth discussion here between us. Nothing constructive about it anymore due to everyone sticking to their own point of view.
Let's just wait for Rollbit to answer and hopefully we can get it solved and they'll return my funds.

Peace.

We appreciate you bringing these issues forward but we must add further context that you failed to mention.

This was not your first account on Rollbit, you've had numerous accounts limited & banned.

Each time, sufficient warnings were given to ensure you understood that future accounts would be actioned and we'd seek to recoup loses from such abuse.

As you correctly identified, we're generally fine with folks having alternative accounts as long as they're not being utilised for nefarious purposes.

This was not the case here, you opened multiple accounts with the sole purpose of abusing our sportsbook, something you were warned previously for.

Following previous warnings, you were permitted or already did withdraw all of your funds.

It's worth noting for the other participants of this thread, this is most definitely not an action we profit from. It's more recouping losses, as we've already lost a significant amount of value through this type of abuse.

This is simply not true, you have not warned me a single time nor have you ever banned one of my accounts before.

Please provide evidence of that.

Im sure there have to be chat messages or whatever.

All that has happened so far to my accounts is just purely being limited. Why are you lying?


Also, where have i said that this was my first account? I stated right at the start that this was NOT my first account.



Im sure there are other folks out there, who maybe did the same. But how do you draw the conclusion that those were MY accounts? I would really appreciate you coming forward with evidence, to prove that those accounts warned were mine.

Honestly sounds to me like you are aware, that it looks super scammy to do what u did without previous warnings.
So theres really only 2 options; either you are trying to lie about it OR ur confusing other accounts with mine.

The more i think about your reply, the more angry i get.

Why would i even come back and deposit TEN THOUSAND if i would have received a warning and you threatened to seize my funds? This makes absolutely no sense.

Do you really think i would come back to your site and risk this amount of money? Im not sure what picture you are trying to draw here, but i havent won that much on your site. You are acting like i won some insane amount on your platform which is not the case

And second; If you were aware of everything & you dont want people to do that on your site, because as it seems im not the only one who has created new accounts for new sport limits, why didnt you change your ToS?

Honestly this answer just proves to me how scammy you guys are.

If they post chat messages, you could just say that's not you they were chatting with.

It's a messy situation.  I'm like 90% confident that you were warned on other accounts and playing dumb now.  Common sense would tell you that when you get limited, it means they don't want your action, and opening a new account to get around those limits is the same as tricking them into taking action they don't want, which is nefarious.  

Rollbit needs to be extremely confident that the person behind this account is the person behind the other accounts that were explicitly warned.  I also think they've put themselves in a untenable situation by offering lines that can be beat while at the same time taking action from new accounts and enforcing limits on individuals.  They should figure out a solution or an innocent player will eventually have their funds seized and their reputation will be damaged. (1xbit is a well known scam casino that has this move in their business plan.  You don't want to be looked at like 1xbit)  I also think they should be explicit in their terms that using alts to get around sportsbook limits is not ok - yes, it's common sense, but clearly the fact that it's not in the terms will be enough to convince players to give it a shot and see what they can get away with.


Maybe you couldn't get action anywhere else with their lines, maybe you had your eye on a particularly juicy edge, you thought you'd get away with it, you thought you'd convince them to return the money if you didn't.  Lots of possible reasons.

I assume you were up significantly more than $10k on your other accounts.

 So if I understand, when a user is making losses it is just ok,
 but if a user is doing profits you just limit or ban him ??



 @Lak93xy you could bring a lawsuit against them, similar cases has been got right delivered by the past.



 @Rollbit Razer , clearly you should at least let him withdraw the funds recently deposited...

 And wait for the trial.. there is plenty of players/sports betting (winner) that would very happy to sue you for your inequitable practices!  ;D ;D

This seems very suspicious of you. You don't prove anything you claim.

I can somewhat relate to the OP as I myself get limited very often. In these cases I never get any warnings at all. Why would you do this differently?

As OP states, why would he deposit the 10K if he knew you were going to confiscate the money? No one can be that stupid unless he has registered under other forms and if thats the case - how do you know it's him? Same ip? Registered under the same name? Same wallet address? Same email?

And how did he abuse the sportsbook? He clearly states that he is betting on NBA which is a big market.

I think you need to be more specific because your response leave many clues.

Yea you are 90% sure, because since this thread started you have been basically always implying im talking some sort of bullshit for no reason.
Please keep blindly believing those bookies, but stop implying things here for no reason.

Also where is there proof of claim here? There argument is equally unfair, because they can just post chat messages and say its my account. How does that proof anything?
For example, its the first Account where they asked me to KYC. So theres literally only one account where ive done KYC.

Im willing to lay everything open. For a matter of fact, my accounts are not banned besides that one, and im willing to let someone from this forum as a middleman look into this accounts, and see my history AND most importantly that i havent received any warning. But obviously they could just investigate further now and ban those accounts and deny my access to them. (But i made screen recordings just now while im in the account, showing date and everything. So be careful rollbit :) )


Also, if they would have warned me on other accounts and decided to pull the plug on this one finally, why havent they mentioned anything about that in the chat messages they sent me in the end? I have the entire conversation screenshoted and not once have they said "because you have been warned before" or anything like that.

Yea, im considering that already. Even more after such an answer. I know my case is strong enough, since they cant back up anything they claim here.

I've given you several reasons for having my opinion - and I'm being pretty explicit about what my opinion is.  The biggest reason is that it's become a fairly regular thing for players to use multiple accounts to get around sportsbook limits after being caught, paid, and warned multiple times, and then come here and play dumb while telling only part of the story in a scam accusation thread hoping to manipulate the community into pressuring the book to pay them.  

Two examples (I'm much more confident than 90% for these):

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5383835.0

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5400984.0

Your situation just has too much in common to overlook the possibility that you're doing the same thing.  I'm sorry if you're not - truly.  But keeping my mouth shut does more damage than sharing my thoughts (more players will keep doing this, using the forum to manipulate the community, until it doesn't work anymore).  At least imo.

I get that. And i do know, that there are probably more people out there that will tell some bullshit than actually being not guilty.

Please also consider tho, how often casinos/sportsbooks do shady shit. You are kinda acting like they are always the victim and innocent.

And you must also admit, that you are not giving any chance here to proof different. You are constantly just coming forward and implying that im trying to play dumb or whatever. And i do think, that therefor you are actually doing damage. Because its nothing productive, you are not asking me to show proofs or anything, just saying that im probably guilty.

As i said, im very willing to lay things open, and proof that im not just telling 20% of the story.



Also just wanna add, that you are constantly leaving out the fact that they do not have this rule in their ToS. I get that you see a bad intention in my action, but you cant leave this very important fact aside. As i said before, i also play at different sportsbooks - and i respect their rules. Im not gonna multi account there - because its forbidden.

And almost certainly im not gonna risk 10k on a crypto casino if i have been warned before and risk losing my money.

So you don't have to answer but I'm curious as to why you wanted to play at this sportsbook so bad. Sounds like maybe you was trying to hit some off lines and lay them off somewhere else...but i could be wrong, haven't taken a look at what they have to offer.

Oh and if you really got scammed, I hate it for you but they don't exist to make you money. :o

It has nothing to do with "wanting" to play at the book so badly.

Their odds are pretty standard, they have a decent provider. Nothing crazy tho and certainly no off line or w/e. I can post example of bets i played if that helps anything.

If you are a punter who bets higher amounts and your bets are kinda decent, you will get limited quite often and fast. Some books even limit your account because you deposit a bigger amount.

So i appreciated the fact that i could get bets placed there without too much trouble. I was actually a fan of their casino before, they have a decent rewards system etc. Its not like i discovered rollbit only because of the sportsbook in the first place.



I dont really understand what you are trying to say here.
Yea, casinos/sportbooks exist because they have an advantage. That dosnt mean that they are allowed to literally scam me & i should be ok with that lol.

My suspicions were also that OP had done this before, but since you are now active in this thread, that needs to be proven somehow. So how can you prove that OP is a regular abuser of your site?

I have been saying that the whole time, but it would be better for the future if you explained what you consider to be nefarious purposes. I personally think that trying to circumvent betting restrictions is an example of such an action, the OP obviously doesn't. And what caused those other accounts to be banned? Was it betting above set betting limits or some other actions?

What you said can be understood in different ways. You are recouping your total losses suffered because of all the Rollbit abusers or you are only recouping losses from this particular player and his multiple accounts. While one thing is OK, the other surely isn't. But like I said previously, what's your proof the player has done these abusive things in the past already?

Well by your own admission, you created multiple accounts.

if there wasn't anything special about their lines then why not post up at other sportsbooks to get more action? 

you ever read their reviews? https://www.trustpilot.com/review/www.rollbit.com

some of them dont look so good do they?

i would think there are better places to bet on sports.




I mean you have to be careful about where you bet your money at. Just because they have a built in advantage doesn't mean they like it when someone is making money off them. Especially if they are shady. A solid sportsbook might limit you or even boot you but they'll never steal your money.

If that's the case, why didn't you update the Terms that state alt-accounts are allowed? That would have prevented a "he said she said" situation.

How do you know the accounts belong to the same user?

How do you define "abuse" in this case? Is it "winning consistently"? If that's the case, shouldn't you adjust the odds instead of blocking the user?

I don't think that's relevant, unless you can prove there's abuse going on. Like match-fixing, not just winning.

You're a casino, you're in the business of taking people's life savings. Playing the victim card doesn't seem right.

If that's the case, you should leave negative feedback, and create a Flag to seek community support.

And that's the problem with allowing multiple accounts and setting arbitrary rules for some of them.

I've seen it, but still it doesn't feel right to limit some players because they won. That basically means the casino's system is flawed, but since they still make a profit from other users, they don't want to take it down.
Many cases can also mean the casinos make many victims, instead of many people trying to "abuse" the casino.

As always LoyceV asks the questions that need to be answered.

I would love to see a reply to all of them by the accused party.

Good job Loyce, very well thought post!

There's always 2 sides to every story and then there's the truth. without knowing exactly how much money they "lost" we can't really know anything. The OP hasn't explained how much money he popped them for either. Maybe he should do that. obviously he must know.

Well we have heard both stories from the casino and the player. I think it dosent matter much how much he won,you can bet and win on other casinos aswell. As far as i seen the rules were different but still want to hear a little more from rollbit on this matter. I think they should change their policy for the future and not allow multi accounts so that situations like this dont happen again.

To me, their silence speaks volumes. If they would have satisfying answers, they would have given them by now.

Again: this doesn't matter. Their maximum profit combined with the house edge should ensure they never lose a significant portion of their bankroll. You win some, you lose some. And in the casino's case, they win more than they lose.

Since the op said 10 grand was alot for him then we can assume maybe that the amount in total he won from them is in the 5 figure range. Not 6. So not a huge amount of money for a business but still probably a bit outside of the norm for what they want in a typical gambling customer that uses their website. maybe that's why he's no longer welcome there.


if that's true then the op has no leg to stand on.

if thats true then he doesn't have a leg to stand on.

sounds like something people would try and do. i'm sure it's happened to you guys alot.

and then he put in 10 grand into another account and that's when he got his funds frozen after all of that. if that's the case then he got treated pretty well i would say.

I bet so. you have to hammer those nails when they come out of the woodwork.

I would think it is very nice of a sportsbook/casino to actually warn someone not to do something before they resorted to more extreme measures. I mean how much nicer can you be than that?

Like I said, 2 sides to every story. Then the truth...

Please focus and read the whole thread and include all the information that both sides have provided you. You're blindly talking outside of the scope here and not taking the most important bits of information into account here.

What do you mean? I never said I didn't use multiple accounts - it is clear as a day that I did. The whole core of this topic here is that I opened up multiple accounts because their ToS allowed it and the website itself promoted it.

Again, no warnings were given. Please read the thread again before you post anything here without understanding the context.

Again, as I told you, no warnings were given.

Read the whole thread again - in what universe is it fair to steal $10k when I've been following all the terms & conditions on their website and confirmed that it was fine to use multiple accounts?


Please stop trolling. There are plenty of other threads where you can state such vague statements. You're literally not giving any important input here.
"How much nicer can you be than that" - So you just accept everything Razer told as truth, without any proof? Fine by me, but that's not the reason I've created this thread. I want to know why I've been treated the way I was, fair and square. I want them to work it out with me as their customer, not just drop a few sentences and think that's sufficient. Rollbit owes me $10k and they know it.

someone already pointed it out to you. maybe you should read it again.



also if they ever give you your money back consider yourself lucky and hopefully we don't see you again in this type of situation. :o

Another 10 days have passed.
Once again I'm asking Rollbit to please come forward with proof of their claims!
If you have such strong evidence of banned and warned accounts, I don't think it should be a problem providing this here & answer the other questions that came up since you posted your very short and vague statement.

https://www.trustpilot.com/review/www.rollbit.com

just imagine. you could ding their 4.5 out of 5 star rating if you left them a negative review. it might go down to 4 stars for a while. :-X

Posting a summary here again, so it is easier for Razer/Rollbit to answer.


Partially correct. This was not my first account on Rollbit. Previous accounts were limited, and none of them were banned.

No warnings were given. Please back your claims, Razer.

There was nothing nefarious about my behavior. I never abused any bonuses, coupons, or chat features.

Incorrect, no warnings were given. Again, please provide us the proof.

Recouping losses, as a bookmaker by seizing deposits? Furthermore, please back your claims with evidence.

TLDR: Razer is either lying or confusing someone else's accounts with mine.




Thanks for the link. Will do!

Also its pretty odd to me that the only time you have ever answered to a scam accusation is this thread  ??? And additionally you are so invested aswell...

as well it seems odd to me that this is the fist time you ever got into trouble with a sportsbook/casino behaving the way you did with rollbit. did you leave your trustpilot review?

I think there are PLENTY other cases here, where its obvious that those dudes are doing it on other platforms. I think i broke down my reasoning why i behaved the way i behaved often enough.

Still weird, that there you dont feel the need to be sarcastic and get involved on those other threads. Shilling is a thing i heared :).

if you look at their trustpilot, do you see other people complaining that they had a large deposit confiscated and the company just told them they wouldn't give it back to them? Is that a pattern we see on all the hundreds of trustpilot reviews? Do we even see that at all?

you gonna leave that trustpilot review and give them a chance to reply on there? seems like they used to reply to people back in 2020 maybe part of 2021. not sure if they do now...

Good job on dodging everything else i said. Pretty obvious to me what you are doing here.

Anyways, they are aware of this post and know where to answer. Why would i open a new discussion on trustpilot, your logic makes no sense.

IF id post that on trustpilot its just to flag them on multiple platforms.


And no i dont see that on trustpilot, which still makes absolutely no sense to even bring up. This is a very unique situation & im asking them to provide proof of what they are claiming here.

Maybe you can just accept that and move on instead of trolling here and being sarcastic + not providing anything productive. Im sure that should be no problem.


Unless.... shilling :)

You claim you went on their chat and asked if it was ok to do "multi account" and even showed us a screenshot of that chat. But in your screenshot you didn't explain to them why you would be using that feature.  And how come you even took a screenshot of that innocent chat in the first place? Most people don't do that you know? Unless they have a plan in place that they might need to use it as "evidence" later on in case something goes wrong :o

Another thing is which raises a small red flag is your following statement where you claim they told you using vpns/proxies was ok.


It's not ok to use a vpn to circumvent this type of message:

Rollbit.com is unavailable in your country.
For any questions, please contact support@rollbit.com

Were you using a vpn to bypass that message or for some other reason?

Sorry you don't like the scrutiny but you came here with your story and you put it out there. this is a discussion forum where people discuss things other people post. if you don't like that, then you could have posted your review of rollbit on trustpilot where only they can reply.

Let me correct you here, since once again you seem to not really read carefully whats happening.
The provided screenshot is from a friend of mine as i stated before already. And yes, i did take safety measurements, because while you are talking like bookies/casinos are the poor victims, in reality its often them who try to do shady stuff. But i guess you never heared of such cases? Thats why im protecting myself beforehand, which i would advice everyone who plays with significant amounts of money. Such a weird thing to do right?




Once again - you probably didnt read what was being said before - i did KYC on the account. If i would be a citizen of a blocked country i think we would have a different case on our hands and they probably would have mentioned something in their previous "statement".




I dont have a problem with critical voices, but i did my best here to provide what i can. At the moment, ive been sharing what i can while Rollbit released a very very vague statement and since than has failed to follow up on it. You are the only person here trying to frame me in that way, without any proof. And yea its pretty weird to me, how personally attacked you seem aswell.

Checking your history in this forum and everything, i wouldnt be surprised if you are somewhat related to rollbit :). A dev maybe?

Dear OP,

First of all, I want to state I'm sorry about the absolute idiots you've had to deal with in this thread.

Some of the people in this thread appear to be intentionally behaving in obtuse ways, just to aggravate you. I cannot explain why or what their motivations are, or maybe they are just too plumb stupid to understand your case.

I understood your case right away.

You bet, you won, you made some multiple accounts to avoid the limits imposed on the previous accounts. If you could be accused of anything wrong here, you tried to evade these previous limits.

That does not justify Rollbit stealing $10,000 from you, and Razer's response is woefully inadequate.

You have also stated you never received any warnings. This is entirely possible. Rollbit should show some evidence of these supposed warnings they sent you. If you did not receive warnings, or it was not clear you would get in trouble trying to evade those warnings, then I think it can be partially understood why you might think it was safe to create new accounts. After all, you did deposit $10,000, so you must have felt it was safe, which suggests your motivations were not "nefarious" but more a case of naivete or believing multi-accounts was an acceptable option.

The correct action here is to return the $10,000 and explain that you cannot evade the sports book limits with multiple accounts.

The TOS is clear, you can create multiple accounts. If they have an issue with people doing that, then they need to be a lot more clear about what is allowed and what isn't.

Time for Rollbit to return the funds and make a clear statement on what happened, and end this. Otherwise, this looks very bad for them, and I find Razer's replies just totally inadequate and seemingly dismissive of the situation. Prove and clearly explain how OP broke the TOS, and please justify why it is some how OK for you to take his $10,000 deposit, and explain to us how that isn't theft on your part. We are watching and wait, Razer and Rollbit.com. OP has explained himself enough.

I will also add, I would take Rollbit's side here IF they could offer some clear evidence and a case as to why OP was being "nefarious" and please show the many warnings you claimed he received. Explain more clearly, in a way that is legally justifiable, why it's ok to take his $10,000.

(Full disclosure: I am not affiliated with OP or Rollbit in any way.)

It is good to know that you are being robbed in this way to avoid these scammers.

I was just going off of your initial post where you said this:


You then proceeded in your initial post to provide a screenshot of that supposed chat. But now you say this:

So while it may not have been intentional, you contradicted yourself which would bring up the following question naturally:
 
When exactly did this chat your friend had take place? Before or after you put $10,000 into this new account you created?


A real safety measure would have been you going on their chat and telling them you got limited in your other account(s) and is it ok  you open a new account (and put $10,000 in). it doesn't appear you did that though. since you have no screenshots of such a conversation.

how many accounts did you have opened up and limited before you opened up this account that you deposited $10,000 into? did i miss that somewhere? it certainly was not mentioned in your initial post. why not put all of the details into the initial posting?

really? if that's the case then you just answered your own question.


but maybe you didn't use your real identity on some of the accounts or something?


they never claimed you were doing that anyway but if you would have been then yes, that would be a different situation with no leg to stand on.

i'll be honest with you that disagree that their statement was vague. i think it was pretty much in line with what could be expected. that's how companies reply to complaints. how i would expect them to reply to your complaint based on how they reply to other peoples complaints on trustpilot. in some of those cases they resolved the person's issue.




the accusations you make are unfounded and it doesn't surprise me though. seeing how you are so offbase in this one how you could be offbase in another one...

You are just trying to turn and twist everything against me. Plus you just completely ignore things already discussed in this thread, but im really done having this nonsense conversations with you, because you are not even trying or have a rational view point on things.

(For example i stated multiple times that this is the first account i had to KYC on, so god knows how you come up with "or maybe you used a fake ID".)


Either you are shilling/affiliated with them or you just have some other problem i dont know. Also weird how you are the only person in this thread agreeing with their behavior / thinking their response was enough


But that right here was all i needed. ->



Woops. Gotcha!

Imagine someone making unfounded accusations without any sort of proof. This is what you are doing since you joined this thread.

Take a look in the mirror my friend.

so you expect people to remember every little thing you said throughout your many postings here when a single initial posting could have sufficed had you been organized and put all the information in its full completeness right in that one posting. i did my best to try and understand your situation but you still left some questions unanswered primarily why you would not have talked to them yourself first and explained why you were opening another account after your other one(s) got limited. to me that seems like a prudent thing to do so that you don't end up well, in the situation you are now! :(


i have no idea how their site works i thought maybe you can be anonymous and use their services. give me a break. not everyone can read your mind.

i'm not the only one. other people have pointed out where and how you went wrong potentially but you just kept on trucking...

 i dont have any sympathy for people that try and scam sportsbooks nor do i have any for sportsbooks that try and scam innocent people. hows that?

Well yea thats what i expect from someone who is so engaged in a discussion.



You dont have to read my mind, just the thread... But yea as you just said, i shouldnt expect this from you. Much better to just throw random questions out in an attempt to make someone look sus, instead of reading the thread carefully.  :)

it's funny how you want rollbit to answer all of YOUR questions but you won't answer any of mine. kind of strange huh?


"why would I open up another account with $10,000 when they had limited me in a previous account or accounts?"

you've continually failed to answer the question of how many previous accounts you had opened up and had limited although at least rollbit clarified that in their single reply so i guess i'll just go with what they said on that which is that it was MORE THAN ONE. now does that make any sense why if you had had more than one previous account limited for making bets that you would just go and dump in a possibly even bigger amount of money into a new account to try and do the same exact thing you got limited for in the previous ones? NO it doesn't make sense at all. anyone that would do that is lacking in a bit of common sense and apparently that is you. have a nice day.

Are you a representative of Rollbit? If so, I am more than happy to answer anything you want me to. Otherwise, you're just flooding the whole topic with your troll posts.
In addition, I have answered every "question" from you, even though most of your "questions" were out of context or subjective towards supporting Rollbit.

As I've said many times, I did use multiple accounts. I've never denied it, brother.

Nevertheless, you're way too invested in this thread - take a chill pill and wait for the outcome. It has nothing to do with you nor do you have a reason to be so emotional and defensive of Rollbit.
It is between Rollbit and me as their customer.
Have a nice day too, Sir.

I will just flag Rollbit as the next step and when nothing changes there's a long journey ahead of us. They picked the wrong person to do their shady stuff with.

it's not troll posts. this is the "scam accusations" section. you have accused them of scamming you. it's just an accusation. so it's subject to discussion and questioning from whoever wants to. you're free to ignore, reply or whatever else you want to do. but no i'm not connected to rollbit. just so you know. i don't want you thinking you're talking to them when you're not.

You claim they never warned you but if you had multiple accounts that got limited by them which you admit to then how could that not be considered about the most serious warning you could get. I guess you wanted them to shoot you over an email along with it?  ::)


How many accounts exactly? Why not just be fully transparent about how many there were.

And there's no good answer to my question in bold. you can't answer that question. and that's the problem. everyone else can see the issue too.


you seem to think i'm against you just because for some unobjective reason thats not the case. For example, had you approached them through their live chat before making that new account with the $10,000 and told them how you had been limited previously on other accounts and wanted to know if it was ok to open up a new one with $10,000 so you could do the same thing you were using those other accounts for and they said "sure, go for it not a problem!" and you had screenshots of that then I would have no reason to be suspicious of you.




sports gambling kind of gets me excited.  ;D

i'd say its between you and a person at rollbit. whoever that person is.

so you're saying legal action. well that's going to cost money.

I have read the last few posts and questions larry_vw_1955 asked, and he makes some valid points.

OP keeps stating that using multiple accounts is OK, but I tried to explain that it's surely not OK for all purposes. We go back to the "nefarious purposes" that is mentioned in Rollbit's TOS. OP also says they didn't warn me, and I agree with Larry here. After you opened your first account and it got limited, you opened a second. Maybe you opened a third, fifth, tenth... you never said how many there were. If all the accounts you had got limited, is that not warning enough for you? Does that not ring any bells in your head and makes you think: Hey, I am obviously doing something wrong, otherwise I wouldn't have gotten my previous X accounts limited? 

I also agree with Larry that if you had been straight with the Rollbit team and told them clearly: I have had x accounts limited in the past. Can I open a new one to circumvent the restrictions you placed on my previous X accounts to place bigger wagers? If they said sure, go ahead, but then they confiscated your money and banned you, I would support you and consider what they did a scam.

But that didn't happen. You or your friend only asked them if players are allowed to have multiple accounts, and they said yes. You weren't even remotely specific enough to explain what you wanted or planned to do.

A real-life unrelated example:
Am I allowed to buy and legally own a gun? YES
Am I allowed to buy and legally own a gun to shoot people at my local shopping mall? NO

The second one is a very specific question that shows the intention and reason for wanting to have a gun. The first one is a generic question. You should have asked the second type of question before taking any action. But you asked a simple one and you got a simple answer. Yes, you can have multiple accounts. That doesn't mean you can do whatever you want with those accounts.   

You seem to have mixed up two different scam accusations. My post that you quoted above is from Rollbit.com scam, and took my money including deposit. (500$) (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5423517.0), so I think it's appropriate if that case is discussed in the other thread. Coming back to this one, there is no question here if OP has used different Rollbit accounts, and he admitted to have done so.

You're right, I copied from multiple topics, and intended to post it here (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5423517.msg61365126#msg61365126). It's fixed.

OP admitted using multiple accounts, because it's allowed. Rollbit claimed he used more accounts, but hasn't provided evidence. For more than 2 weeks, they've ignored my questions (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5419674.msg61289477#msg61289477). That's not what a honest casino would do:

It's allowed unless multiple accounts are used for "nefarious purposes". It's unclear what kind of purposes those are, but if a player isn't sure about it or has doubt if what he plans to do is acceptable behavior, he should have asked the casino. OP didn't do that. He assumed it was OK to open multiple accounts to bet above limits set on his older accounts.

They don't need to because OP never claimed having only one account. OP has said he used multiple ones and that his older accounts got limited. Rollbit doesn't need to prove something OP has admitted to. 

I agree with you there. And I don't appreciate the silence. But I also don't think OP is innocent and didn't know what he was doing.

While I regard the new account creation, liberal interpretation of rules and of the limits as willful negligence, using such vague terms in ToS as an umbrella to seize funds is simply too charitable.

I would consider the disregard of betting limits to be under the umbrella of "nefarious" if using the word to its extremes. Frankly, the word nefarious should be replaced altogether.
Though perhaps a simple, "you are limited to $XXXX for sports bets," doesn't encapsulate Rollbit's intent enough. Instead, they should have written, "you, the person behind the computer and creator of this account are limited to $XXXX for sports bets, and should not create any new accounts to bypass this limit."

I understand what you are saying, but your personal definition of "nefarious purposes" is not really important, neither is mine. Whats important is what is written in their rules, and they have not stated anywhere that you are not allowed to open new accounts once you got limited on sports. But on the other side, they do go very much into detail whats seen as "nefarious purposes". For example absuing their chat, bonus or reward system.

Furthermore i notice how a lot of you guys in this thread seem to look at being limited on a sportsbook as a "warning" or "you did something wrong". But thats not really the case. And does not allow you to confiscate funds of someone. If you want to do that, you have to state that in your ToS.

Ill give you an example aswell.

Your an advantage player on blackjack and play at a casino.

They can ask you to stop playing and back you off, but they cant confiscate your funds/winnings. You dont even have to show them your ID. Do you know why? Because its not written in their rules.

Thanks for pointing this thread out, because i think that actually shows that they dont have answers to a lot of the questions here.

Notice how detailed they go into his case, linking blockchain history, account names etc.

Here they failed to even respond in 2 weeks? I can tell you why, because the accounts they can link to my other account, they have never been warned like they claimed. Nor have they ever received a message saying "we will confiscate your funds next time and you are not welcome to play here anymore."


And i have serious evidence of that, im just waiting for them to come forward to proof that, so i can show that they are lying. Thats why im holding back the Information of how many accounts i had so far.

Terms and conditions of any site are there to protect them and not me or you. Since they make the rules, whenever it looks like it's a 50/50 situation, they will use those rules in their favor. Whether or not it's right or fair is not something corporations and businesses care about.

You are probably right about there not being a specific rule that says you aren't allowed to use multiple accounts to circumvent betting limitations. It's been almost a month since this thread got started, so I don't remember exactly what their rules state. But if I am not wrong, one of the points is they can remove your right to use any site features whenever they think it's necessary. If you combine that with the nefarious purposes thing, you get a couple of rules that are vague, inconclusive, and unclear. But like I said previously, the rules are there to protect them, not you. And they can always say that your abuse of betting limitations resulted in everything else that happened to you.

Extreme, unfair, unorthodox, morally wrong... call it whatever you want. TOSs are sadly there to catch you in the act of doing something you aren't supposed to do and protect the other side. That's why you shouldn't give them reasons to use any of their terms against you. Just because I am saying that, doesn't mean I like it. It's the reality. 

Have you presented your case in front of AskGamblers or a similar service to see what they have to say? Are you considering getting a lawyer involved?


A question for you to extend on what Larry was also saying. When you or your friend spoke with their support, why wasn't this the question that was asked?
I have x Rollbit accounts created in the past that have in the meantime been limited. I used to bet $500 (for example) on sports, but with the limits you placed on my accounts, I can now only bet $10 max. Since Rollbit allows the creation of multiple accounts, am I allowed to create a new one so I can start betting $500 per match again?

Its the reality, but as i said before theres no existing terms here to use against me. No court will ever ever rule in their favour. They are acting like that because im sure that most people will not seek help from a lawyer or something. But yea to answer your other question; Im gonna evaluate my options and see what my next steps are. AskGamblers is a good idea aswell, thank you. But of course i will also not shy away from getting a lawyer involved, because this is a pretty serious amount of money.



I dont have a satisfying answer for you here. As ive said in my inital post, a lot of bettors probably raised some eyebrows when they saw that rollbit releases a sportsbook with those ToS.

In that moment i was happy that this option exists and just wanted to double down without waking a sleeping dog. So since my friend asked it in this way already, i didnt feel the need of going into more detail.

The problem here is, that i would have always respected them if they would have actually warned me as they claimed.


Another thing im wondering is, why no one asks them questions besides LoyceV.
Why do they claim they handed out warnings if this didnt happen?
Why are they not showing proof of those warnings?
Why are they showing all those things (blockchain history, account names etc.)  in the other guys thread but ignore mine since weeks?

You dont think thats shady behavior?

If the OP somehow abused the multi-account facility, then prove all his allegations false with all the evidence. Because here nothing can be believed without evidence. You say you've already lost a lot of money because of this kind of abuse, which doesn't mean that the OP is involved in everything.

OP can be proven wrong here just by publishing your evidence, otherwise keeping this thread open will affect your reputation. So we all want to see a proper solution to this accusation.

thanks. thanks for reiterating all my points. even if the OP doesn't see it that way.


if they don't ask him how much money he made off of all his accounts on rollbit in total then anything else is kind of meaningless. and i guarantee a lawyer would ask for that information right off the bat.

have you ever wanted to do something so bad that you didn't want someone telling you no? that's probably why.  :P

we'll see what the OP has to say next.


well there you go! you knew it was not the wisest thing to do but you couldn't help yourself. you took a shot at them and you got shot down.  :o that's what I thought all along. glad you just confirmed it. it was too good to be true and you didn't want to be told otherwise. we've all been there and done that. at some point or another with SOMETHING. problem is, sleeping dogs can wake up and bite you in the ***. and that's what happened.


I'm more interested in how many accounts you had in total and how much money you made off of them in total. Sum up your total deposits into all your accounts with them. Sum up all your withdrawals from all your accounts with them. Subtract the deposits from the withdrawals. Tell me that number. We want to know.

I know larry, your always just interested in my wrong doing not in Rollbits :). I already explained why im not disclosing this atm.

Anyways, i flagged them now. Will proceed with further steps.

When you don't fully disclose all the details, you're putting people here at a disadvantage to be able to fully form an opinion i.e. wasting their time.
you have wasted alot of peoples time up to this point. i'll have to go search back through this thread to try and find out why you don't want to discuss how much money you made off them.

what do you mean by "flagged"? hopefully those further steps will not include you trying to impeach rollbit in this forum without having told the full story on how much money you made off of them. and how many accounts you opened, etc, etc.

Just as an example, lets say you made $20,000 off of them but then you deposited $10,000 of it back. Are you guilty then? maybe.

lets say you made $5000 off of them but then you deposited $10,000. Are you guilty then? well yeah you're still guilty but they owe you $5000.

Mate whatever is wrong with you i dont know, but im done talking to you atleast. Make whatever you want out of it. You have such a biased opinion, im not gonna bother answering to your bs anymore. Throwing accusations at me left and right while not even closely understanding whats happening here. No one cares about your personal opinion, or moral view point.

This guys have ignored their own TOS and used this as an explanation to confiscate a 6 figure sum. I have never breached anything in their TOS.
Thats a fact. And they have failed to answer anything in weeks now, even tho they are full aware whats happening.

I explained like 2 or 3 posts before why im not disclosing this. You are wasting your own time here, if you join discussions but cant sort yourself out.

Stop replying to things if you keep forgetting what has been said before, thx. I also dont think you understand how much impact your way of talking here can have on the entire case.

While you maybe think that Rollbit dosnt have to answer anything here anymore, because in your opinion they said enough, other people have a lot of questions towards them aswell.
But you are constantly shooting towards me, throwing those accusations around and putting me in a spot where it looks like im the one who hast to explain himself.
Thats the best thing you can do for them, if they dont wanna answer here anymore. So yea instead of spamming this thread with your responses because you are too lazy to scroll up 3 posts,
maybe stop wasting your time aswell. And maybe just maybe think about the impact your behavior here can have without having 100% proof of whats happening.



I have told the full story. Any further details (how many accounts and whats the PnL) i will disclose after they come forward, since its the only evidence i have to proof that they are lying. (Did you understand that now)


But yea that was my last response to you. I actually hope at this point your affiliated with Rollbit because otherwise you are seriously just a pretty weird dude.

One thing in your favor is you have replied to almost everyone that asked for one here in the thread. That's to your credit. I can respect someone that knows how to gamble and make money at it. so if that's you then my hat's off to you not alot of people can do that. you're a better man than me in that case. ;D

Maybe it would have been better you to moderate our thread, deleting posts you don't like to keep things under control. it's not what I'm saying that makes you look bad. it's what you yourself have admitted to here in this long thread. You would have been better off not even opening up this thread. To be quite honest. That's what I think. Every time you offered up additional information, it made you look WORSE. Is that why you don't want us to know how much money you made off them and how many accounts you had?

I tend to think if you had made only a couple accounts like 2 or 3 and maybe made $2000 or $3000 in profit, you would be foaming at the mouth to let everyone know that since you would be in quite a big hole if they had then confiscated $10,000 from ya. On the other hand, lets say you had cleaned them out for over $10,000 before they stepped in and confiscated $10,000 of it. Well, theoretically you then made money off them NET. So you wouldn't really think people would be as sympathetic to you maybe. Especially if the amount you made was even larger like say $20,000. And guess what, you might be right.  :o

Yeah he didn't do that. he doesn't have a reasonable answer as to why not. anyone with any common sense would have. but he dumped in $10,000 without doing that simple reasonable due diligence. what he did was careless. and yet he wants us to take his side and sympathize with him just because the TOS says he is not prohibited from doing something he thought he could do it. Nice try but try again.

The OP has a way of being very non-apologetic about what he did. Like he was in the absolute right. A more reasonable approach would have been to start out his thread by saying "Look guys, I know what I did was in a grey area and it might have cost me ten thousand bucks...." he would have gained alot more sympathy from me that way.  :o

Just a friendly reminder for everyone that those blokes still failed to respond to a single question that were asked here by multiple people + still didnt bother to post any proof of their allegations. (While being super detailed on other cases here in the forum, kinda weird..)

Please stay away from this site!

your warning is not likely to be heeded or even noticed. just take a look at their trustpilot to see what I mean. plenty of low reviews but people still keep gambling there. APPARENTLY.

people with common sense would have read the reviews on trustpilot before depositing a single satoshi. if you're ok with everything you read there then by all means do whatever you want to.  ;D

---

Trust pilot is kind of a dumpster fire when it comes to using it to judge online casinos.

Players lose their money and leave bad reviews because they are mad they lost or didn't get some hand out they wanted.
Casinos give incentives to leave good reviews.

I'd be surprised if more than 5 or 10% of reviews do not fall into one of these two categories.

I mean you seem to know what you're talking about. nice to see.

Rollbit still no answer so far. Not caring at all.

Please stay away from this site!

so you made more than $10,000 or less than $10,000 in profit off of them before they withheld your deposit? more or less? easy to answer.

it's really not an irrelevant question...

Why it does matter? It's his money or what, it's a breach of ToS only when you win?

It matters because if he was abusing the sportsbook and made more money off them than $10,000 then he probably is not entitled to any of it back. That's just my opinion. You can feel free and disagree.

I am disagreeing, look, if you would've lost money at their sportsbook they wouldve return the loss? Neah, they care only when you are in profit.

but the point is they never even allowed him to place a single wager using his $10,000 deposit. if they had wanted to, they could have only frozen his funds when he won. and gave him the chance to place some losing bets where they would have said nothing. that didn't happen though...

The sheet amount of apologists and users protecting Rollbit is proof that this community advertises casinos with completely fluid ToCs that change to our get interpreted to deadlock and user it disagrees 

How this isn't completely illegal you only have to look at the actions, not intent, which would never hold up in any country with property laws, which explains why these casinos get licensed by a scam company and lost their addresses as shacks in the third world.

Fact one:  Customer read ToC and inquired with casino staff that his activity board no terms or conditions. This is regardless regarding prior  actions, as the request was explicitly addressed to casino staff and Rollbits own FAQ specifically allows multi account use as long as bonus fraud or referral fraud aren't involved, which they weren't.

Fact two: customer deposits $10000 into new account, and ONLY DEPOSITS, as the account ban and funds seizure occur immediately after the deposit. Rollbit did no such inquiry or request for documents, customer placed absolutely no wager, casino, trading, or sports betting. Rollbit is in abaolutely no contract right to do anything until customer violated ToC, which he couldn't do because action was impossible at this point.

Instead, Rollbit arbitrarily decided not only to ban him to prevent showing past b ownership of property, doesn't tally past bets and accounts an actual sum of illicit wages, and decides to simply take his funds with no due process, evidence, or cited violations? Like any legal company would HAVE to do to CYA from fraud or racketeering allegations.

OP, I'm sorry this board that used to be respected and valued decided didn't you for accusing one of their own, and Razor is a known scammer, evidenced clear as day with a simple Google search.

To be honest, customers can no longer rely on communities such as these because they become blinded and incensed by their own perform motives and lack of any moral or legal standing. Once the signature campaigns took off for casinos, this whole piece has corrupted into a trap for unknowing customers looking for something that is not available legally usually in their own countries because of the unenforceability of crypto transactions.  No one here would've ever given you a fair chance at your base because they're all in on it.

well, did the OP do anything? he never updated the thread which makes me think he never got his money back. the way he sounded though he was going to follow through and get it back somehow even if it involved legal actions. but i guess talk is cheap.

Put your money where your mouth is but i don't know too many lawyers who would be interested in helping someone get their $10,000 back. it's almost not even worth it for them. that's just the reality in alot of places.

Can we get an update as I'm going thru a similar experience

You are more than welcome to create your own thread. It'll be better and more ideal solution for you as the discussion will be more focused into your specific situation. Please provide supporting evidence and make it in the format as suggested by the forum (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=260073.0), it'll help readers to get a quick summary of your situation and navigate through it.

Here is your update:

Summary - Lak93xy   Picture/Text
Name:   Lak93xy
Posts:   75
Activity:   56
Merit:   21
Position:   Copper Member
Date Registered:   November 06, 2022, 08:10:19 PM
Last Active:   June 09, 2023, 07:33:52 PM

my guess is he didn't get any money back. but i don't think he'll be back here to provide any further updates.

I am not familiar with this case as I did not oversee it the entire time it happened, but I took a quick stroll on the 6 pages it has and it is worth to point out this part of Razer's explanation,


I believe that OP did not get his money back too, any of it, but to make things more clear and for added context, that's not because Rollbit "stole" from OP, it's "confiscated" to cover some loss that the casino experienced from OP's multiple abuses with previous account.

And jelvis, as I previously stated, if you have a legit situation with Rollbit it'll be better if you create your own thread. You'll get a higher chance of resolution by doing so [and supplementing that thread with adequate proof] instead of bumping old thread.

of course. I didn't mean to suggest that the casino stole anything from the player. quite the contrary. i think they didn't do anything wrong at all. and were the victim. just my opinion based on what i've read.