[Updated] FTX

[Rikafip]

As expected, FTX is considering to to claw back all those donations (~73 million USD) SBF made to political parties.

Bankrupt cryptocurrency exchange FTX says it is considering using legal avenues to recover all payments and contributions handed out by its associated entities and former executives, which could include the millions in political donations made by former CEO Sam Bankman-Fried.

In a Dec. 19 press statement, FTX said it had already “been approached by a number of recipients of contributions or other payments” that were made by, or at the direction of Sam Bankman-Fried or other officers, adding those entities have sought “directions for the return of such funds.”

Since many of those who the FTX money already donated the funds to charity as a move to try distance themselves from it, what i would like to know is how they plan to get the money if charities already spent it? I mean what's the procedure in this case, will they go after the persons who received the money, or those charities?

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[JayJuanGee]

As expected, FTX is considering to to claw back all those donations (~73 million USD) SBF made to political parties.

Bankrupt cryptocurrency exchange FTX says it is considering using legal avenues to recover all payments and contributions handed out by its associated entities and former executives, which could include the millions in political donations made by former CEO Sam Bankman-Fried.

In a Dec. 19 press statement, FTX said it had already “been approached by a number of recipients of contributions or other payments” that were made by, or at the direction of Sam Bankman-Fried or other officers, adding those entities have sought “directions for the return of such funds.”

Since many of those who the FTX money already donated the funds to charity as a move to try distance themselves from it, what i would like to know is how they plan to get the money if charities already spent it? I mean what's the procedure in this case, will they go after the persons who received the money, or those charities?

The recipients of those donations are a bunch of fucking retards and possibly scammers themselves to spend the money or to donate to a further cause, even after hearing about the bankruptcy filings.  The organizations will still be responsible to pay back, even if they spent the money on poor starving babies or whatever the fuck they had claimed to have had been the "good cause."

[dkbit98]

As expected, FTX is considering to to claw back all those donations (~73 million USD) SBF made to political parties.

Good luck trying to get back money donated to politician parasites
Maybe some explosion or big fire will happen soon with all documentations that prove all politicians that received this money including president Biden.
Interestingly enough White House refused to answer any questions about Scam Bankman-Fried donations....
I think that google could soon be manipulating and deleting search results related with this topic, but I found one article from 2021
https://www.vox.com/recode/2021/3/20/22335209/sam-bankman-fried-joe-biden-ftx-cryptocurrency-effective-altruism

[Bitcoin_Arena]

I think that google could soon be manipulating and deleting search results related with this topic, but I found one article from 2021
https://www.vox.com/recode/2021/3/20/22335209/sam-bankman-fried-joe-biden-ftx-cryptocurrency-effective-altruism

Those bastards are capable of anything. If they paid twitter millions to censor information, then I don't think what's happening behind the scene in Google and other major social media platforms isn't any different.

As for the fight to get back the donation, FTX is wasting time. The money is gone.

[JayJuanGee]

I think that google could soon be manipulating and deleting search results related with this topic, but I found one article from 2021
https://www.vox.com/recode/2021/3/20/22335209/sam-bankman-fried-joe-biden-ftx-cryptocurrency-effective-altruism

Those bastards are capable of anything. If they paid twitter millions to censor information, then I don't think what's happening behind the scene in Google and other major social media platforms isn't any different.

As for the fight to get back the donation, FTX is wasting time. The money is gone.

I am not so pessimistic about the money being gone, and I am not considering these matters in terms of partisanship, but instead in terms of people/organization openly stating that they are going to skirt the law... and sure there was some real money, real properties and there was some fake shit too.. but the real stuff can still be traced.. maybe not 100% traced, but should not be given up, even if the hack might have been done in order to destroy records and even if there seems to be the Bahamian government involved in attempting to laundering funds.. even though they later admitted that it was them who was engaged in the money laundering attempts. .which is also weird and does not really add up..

yeah.. fuck law and government regulations and all that bullshit (I am not anti-government, but I am against overreaching and bancruptcy proceedings are not necessarily overreaching especially when clawing back funds that were fraudulently withdrawn and spent) - and there is special kind of bullshit when it comes to any side (or organizations) trying to act as if they are exempt from the law.. and making public statements in that direction.. . or believing that they can skirt legal requirements and anyone should realize that if there is a bankruptcy proceeding, you cannot be spending those received funds (kind of a common-sense angle to that, too)..and then making public statements about such skirting of the requirements of bankruptcy proceedings... and I am not going to go along with such feelings of futility that decent amounts of that money cannot be clawed back, even if it was spent on poor starving kids.. nor am I going to conceded exasperation to concede that those funds cannot be clawed back.. especially to potentially make examples of folks doing it in public ways (doesn't matter which side of the politics they might be on.. or if their cause might be good or whatever, it is not their money to be spending, especially once they know bankruptcy has been filed).

Yeah, maybe some of the recipients were trying to exaggerate and distract and create more political theatre in regards to saying that they were going to donate those FTX funds or to spend them "in light of the vision of their 'benevolent' " organization and all that bullshit.  

Surely we cannot generalize and paint all of the situations with a broad brush because there will be some organizations (recipients) that either just held onto the funds to consult with counsel or others that may have given the funds back on their own.. even though I doubt that they are required to give them back until they receive some kind of a legal notice from the bankruptcy administrator.. .. and some of that might be in fairly early and disarrayed stages. but it can be really irritating for me to hear these matters as if they were partisan.. when even if the donations were meant to go towards one side more than another, it does not matter which side they went to, we have been finding out that clients' funds were being used for a large number of personal purposes.. and as much as possible the clawing back of such funds should be pursued..   and it seems silly to express futility in that regard, even though there may be some difficulties in regards to some of the clawing back of some of the funds.

And don't get me wrong, I am not referring to funds that the clients themselves had withdrawn.. because those kinds of funds fit into a different category.. .. even though we have conflict with that too especially in the days in which some customers (Bahamian residents, Tron customers and perhaps some others who were being given preferential treatment. .including out whether there really was a hack or if that was just some made up bullshit for insiders to skirt requirements of bankruptcy proceedings) were being  given preferential treatment.. and there may be some needs to figure out if some of those funds might need to be clawed back because of the preferential ways that they were being done.. and especially seeming to be attempts to skirt requirements of bankruptcy proceedings.

[OmegaStarScream]

Some updates[1][2]:

- SBF is in FBI's custody and will appear in court as soon as possible.
- Both SBF's girlfriend (Alamada's research CEO) Caroline Ellison, and FTX's cofounder Gary wang plead guilty to fraud charges.

[1] https://twitter.com/SDNYnews/status/1605745361842327552
[2] https://www.cnbc.com/2022/12/22/ftxs-gary-wang-alamedas-caroline-ellison-plead-guilty-to-federal-charges-cooperating-with-prosecutors.html

[Rikafip]

- Both SBF's girlfriend (Alamada's research CEO) Caroline Ellison, and FTX's cofounder Gary wang plead guilty to fraud charges.

Nice girlfriend to have.  

Anyway, at the beginning of this drama I thought that SBF will somehow weasel his way out or eventually get a couple of years in a minimum security prison but the way things are developing he may end locked up for a little bit longer. I hope those two somehow involved Kevin O'Leary as well. Fingers crossed.

[NotATether]

Anyway, at the beginning of this drama I thought that SBF will somehow weasel his way out or eventually get a couple of years in a minimum security prison but the way things are developing he may end locked up for a little bit longer. I hope those two somehow involved Kevin O'Leary as well. Fingers crossed.

Why Kevin O'Leary?

IIRC, he was merely an investor in FTX and got screwed over along with the rest when FTX exploded. Or am I missing some hidden detail here?

[Rikafip]

IIRC, he was merely an investor in FTX and got screwed over along with the rest when FTX exploded. Or am I missing some hidden detail here?

He was also their spokesman, for which he was paid $15 million that he eventually lost. Well, at least he lost majority as based on the interview in this tweet (https://twitter.com/i/status/1600848102583320583) he should have $4 million left.
Anyway, its just my wishful thinking more than anything else as during his senate testimony blamed Binance and not his buddy SBF&Co for FTX downfall and that  makes me think he may known more than we think. 

[OmegaStarScream]

So... this just came out:

FTX founder Sam Bankman-Fried will be released on $250 million bond and restricted to confinement in his parents Palo Alto, Calif., home, a federal magistrate judge said Thursday, in the former executive’s first appearance in a New York federal court after he was extradited from the Bahamas.

Your thoughts?

[TryNinja]

So... this just came out:

FTX founder Sam Bankman-Fried will be released on $250 million bond and restricted to confinement in his parents Palo Alto, Calif., home, a federal magistrate judge said Thursday, in the former executive’s first appearance in a New York federal court after he was extradited from the Bahamas.

Your thoughts?

Not sure how this works in the US, but I don't think he's REALLY going to transfer them $250 million cash. I've seen people saying that he only needs to pay 10% ($25m) secured by his home in Palo Alto and/or other assets?

[JayJuanGee]

So... this just came out:

FTX founder Sam Bankman-Fried will be released on $250 million bond and restricted to confinement in his parents Palo Alto, Calif., home, a federal magistrate judge said Thursday, in the former executive’s first appearance in a New York federal court after he was extradited from the Bahamas.

Your thoughts?

On the surface, it is a bit of a WOW...

and, one of the main questions with any bail is flight risk... .. ..   

Another question would concern if $250 million would be enough to ensure no flight, as well, to ensure that he might not have more than $250 million in some other location..  Sure, SBF is quite the recognizable figure... and if he did flee.. would his parents potentially be on the hook for any of that?  I doubt it.

The whole thing is quite strange, yet Federal judges are authorized to make those kinds of assessments.. even though it seems that the public would be quite fucked if SBF were to actually flee.

There may also be some security concerns in regards to SBF staying with his family.... What kind of security do they have?  There may well be quite a few folks who really want to get at him and they are incentivized to spend a lot of money to accomplish getting at him.. .. so that's another risk that likely needed to be accounted for prior to SBF being able to secure his release.. Wow. 

Likely a Perception of injustice too.. ... fuck that guy...

[franky1]

soooo

the question is

did caroline and wang plead guilty to lesser charges and willing to give evidence against SBF to lessen the penalty of those guilty plea's

or has SBF already setup caroline and wang where they were lead to take a guilty plea. which is due to SBF working with authorities to lesson SBF involvement in whatever narrative he was posing about caroline/wang

as for the bail
a bail bondsman can upfront the $250m and ask SBF for only 10% deposit. IF SBF can show liquidity/access to $250m of property that the bail bondsman can take.

the US family home is not worth $250m so that would not have achieved a bail bondsman 10% deal
he would have had to put up other assets (bahama homes) into a deal with bondsman

i doubt he would reveal a bitcoin wallet of~15k coins. as that could end up working against hi of holding customer assets(one of his charges)

[dkbit98]

Anyway, at the beginning of this drama I thought that SBF will somehow weasel his way out or eventually get a couple of years in a minimum security prison but the way things are developing he may end locked up for a little bit longer. I hope those two somehow involved Kevin O'Leary as well. Fingers crossed.

If you want to hear my prognosis for SBF, and I can be totally wrong, I expect to see him being suicided like Epstein, and recording camera won't record anything by some weird accident.
He knows to much, he has a lot of connections with politicians and they won't throw him under the bus just like that, but his girlfriend and other partners may end up in jail.
We could also see him giving away information about all other shady shitcoin projects and their creators.

Not sure how this works in the US, but I don't think he's REALLY going to transfer them $250 million cash. I've seen people saying that he only needs to pay 10% ($25m) secured by his home in Palo Alto and/or other assets?

They need to guarantee to pay all this money (one way or another) if he escapes custody or leaves country with fake documents.

[coupable]

So... this just came out:

FTX founder Sam Bankman-Fried will be released on $250 million bond and restricted to confinement in his parents Palo Alto, Calif., home, a federal magistrate judge said Thursday, in the former executive’s first appearance in a New York federal court after he was extradited from the Bahamas.

Your thoughts?

With a home guarantee, he can only pay 10 percent of the amount for conditional release. But the amount is very huge and I cannot imagine that one house is able to cover it alone.
I find it funny how he was able to obtain this settlement despite the heinousness of his crimes and the involvement of his assistants. This means that this is like forming a criminal consortium, and it is not supposed to be subject to the rules of parole or house arrest.
It seems that this man's relations go beyond politicians and may also be in the judiciary.

[franky1]

im guessing part of the extradition process was not only transfer of SBF to the US, but also of who holds his assets seized by the bahama authorities, being passed to US authorities..

which could have been used as collateral for bail

[JayJuanGee]

soooo   the question is

did caroline and wang plead guilty to lesser charges and willing to give evidence against SBF to lessen the penalty of those guilty plea's

That seems to be the  more likely scenario.

or has SBF already setup caroline and wang where they were lead to take a guilty plea. which is due to SBF working with authorities to lesson SBF involvement in whatever narrative he was posing about caroline/wang

Does not seem to be a likely scenario.. in fact seems like an unlikely scenario.

Caroline and Wang were likely cooperating way earlier than Sam.. and Sam was in denial until he got arrested.

Sure facts could end up being different than that.. but we should go with the more likely explanation which is the first one of the two that you outlined.

as for the bail
a bail bondsman can upfront the $250m and ask SBF for only 10% deposit. IF SBF can show liquidity/access to $250m of property that the bail bondsman can take.

the US family home is not worth $250m so that would not have achieved a bail bondsman 10% deal he would have had to put up other assets (bahama homes) into a deal with bondsman

i doubt he would reveal a bitcoin wallet of~15k coins. as that could end up working against hi of holding customer assets(one of his charges)

When you frame the matter that way, it does seem surprising that Sam is able to come up with unencumbered assets that are liquidly worth at least $225 million.  I doubt that the bahama homes would be unambiguously free and clear... but hey, maybe they are able to figure something out.. I the guy really does not have any real assets and he is putting up assets that are not really his, then the bail would not stop him from fleeing.. so the bail should really be his... even though if he might be going to jail for life, freedom might not have a price.. if there is a way to get away.. which maybe he does not really have any easy way to  flee.. like Gerald Cotton may have had?

im guessing part of the extradition process was not only transfer of SBF to the US, but also of who holds his assets seized by the bahama authorities, being passed to US authorities..

which could have been used as collateral for bail

Wow.  I don't know how he could use proceeds of a bankruptcy (possible assets of clients) as collateral for bail.  It seems as if the assets for the bail collateral (like you said $225 million) would have to be unencumbered.

[franky1]

soooo   the question is

did caroline and wang plead guilty to lesser charges and willing to give evidence against SBF to lessen the penalty of those guilty plea's

AThat seems to be the  more likely scenario.A

or has SBF already setup caroline and wang where they were lead to take a guilty plea. which is due to SBF working with authorities to lesson SBF involvement in whatever narrative he was posing about caroline/wang

B
Does not seem to be a likely scenario.. in fact seems like an unlikely scenario.B

Caroline and Wang were likely cooperating way earlier than Sam.. and Sam was in denial until he got arrested.

Sure facts could end up being different than that.. but we should go with the more likely explanation which is the first one of the two that you outlined.

as for the bail
a bail bondsman can upfront the $250m and ask SBF for only 10% deposit. IF SBF can show liquidity/access to $250m of property that the bail bondsman can take.

the US family home is not worth $250m so that would not have achieved a bail bondsman 10% deal he would have had to put up other assets (bahama homes) into a deal with bondsman

i doubt he would reveal a bitcoin wallet of~15k coins. as that could end up working against hi of holding customer assets(one of his charges)

C
When you frame the matter that way, it does seem surprising that Sam is able to come up with unencumbered assets that are liquidly worth at least $225 million.  I doubt that the bahama homes would be unambiguously free and clear... but hey, maybe they are able to figure something out.. I the guy really does not have any real assets and he is putting up assets that are not really his, then the bail would not stop him from fleeing.. so the bail should really be his... even though if he might be going to jail for life, freedom might not have a price.. if there is a way to get away.. which maybe he does not really have any easy way to  flee.. like Gerald Cotton may have had?C

im guessing part of the extradition process was not only transfer of SBF to the US, but also of who holds his assets seized by the bahama authorities, being passed to US authorities..

which could have been used as collateral for bail

D
Wow.  I don't know how he could use proceeds of a bankruptcy (possible assets of clients) as collateral for bail.  It seems as if the assets for the bail collateral (like you said $225 million) would have to be unencumbered.D

A&B
i only question it. because for wang and ellison to be charged, put into a courtroom first and plead guilty that quick. some evidence would have needed to be found that quick to put charges on them and get them to the US before sam
now who would do such a thing.. (rhetorical)

so my theory. (whiskey driven this evening) is that SBFdone a deal to blame wang and caroline for fund movements.
(much like his press tour suggested they were to blame when sbf was free and being interviewed)
so that he could have a month before its his turn to feel the handcuffs.. so SBF could have outted them last month before he got cuffed
though obviously now caught and guilty wang and ellison are definitely doing deals to lesson the penalty

C he paid $300m for the bahama homes and bought them outright and is owner of them. so he could have used them as collateral as good as his parents homes would (if parents homes were worth that much)

D depends
bahama should not have ordered funds taken out of a bankruptcy so the presumption is the actions of SBF and wang to move funds out hours after bankruptcy where it allowed 48 hours of bahama customers to withdraw from ftx.com..
where SBF could have said the funds it let bahama authorities seize were SBF's "personal" accounts. thus not part of the bankruptcy and not part of the fraud. thus normal asset seizure of a charged person in jail

[JayJuanGee]

[edited out]

A&B
i only question it. because for wang and ellison to be charged, put into a courtroom first and plead guilty that quick. some evidence would have needed to be found that quick to put charges on them and get them to the US before sam
now who would do such a thing.. (rhetorical)

so my theory. (whiskey driven this evening) is that SBFdone a deal to blame wang and caroline for fund movements.
(much like his press tour suggested they were to blame when same was free and being interviewed)
so that he could have a month before its his turn to feel the handcuffs.. so SBF could have outted them last month before he got cuffed
though obviously now caught and guilty wang and ellison are definitely doing deals to lesson the penalty

C he paid $300m for the bahama homes and bought them outright and is owner of them. so he could have used them as collateral as good as his parents homes would (if parents homes were worth that much)

D depends
bahama should not have ordered funds taken out of a bankruptcy so the presumption is the actions of SBF and wang to move funds out hours after bankruptcy where it allowed 48 hours of bahama customers to withdraw from ftx.com..
where SBF could have said the funds it let bahama authorities seize were SBF's "personal" accounts. thus not part of the bankruptcy and not part of the fraud. thus normal asset seizure of a charged person in jail

I think that you are overly-complicating this.

yeah, sure I agree that all kinds of shenanigans were likely going on, yet I am not going to presume that:

 1) SBF had some kind of a front lead on Caroline and Wang.  It just does not make sense based on currently known facts and logic.  In other words, Caroline and Wang were likely more scared by the level of the deep shit that they knew themselves to be in and the fact that they could not really hide.. which means that they listened to attornies and front run getting their asses in front of the SD of NY authorities to work out some kind of a deal.. of course, through their attorneys..  Sam was delusional was not listening to counsel, thought he was the smartest guy in the room . and ended up getting himself into a pickle with those delusional thoughts.

2) There are clawback provisions in bankruptcies that would likely ONLY allow going back around 90 days - however, in this case, there seems to have been so much damned commingling of funds, fraud and lack of proper bookkeeping that personal assets are not going to be likely to be able to be kept separate from the assets of various companies.  So, I do have some questions regarding how a bonds bailsman would be able to muster up that level of confidence regarding any assets that were connected to FTX, Alameda or any of the likely various shell companies that had been created in order to engage in fraud.  Sure.. maybe superficially, there might be some confidence that some of the assets are going to be "free and clear" yet I have some troubles just imagining that a lot of the supposedly "personal" assets of some of the players might not get put into jeopardy. and rightfully, they should probably go back into the company and for clients, but probably there are going to be quite a few ambiguities in regards to the various legal entities that were created and whether they should be honored... perhaps even Sam's parents might get sucked into this too.. whether they were personally helping him or maybe they just "knew people" who could help sam to create so many sham organizations that were being used to steal money and to commit fraud.

I am not going to claim to know very much.. and especially there is still a lot of investigation going on regarding to some of the monetary relationships that are still being discovered.  Maybe we will never know if there are a lot of settlement agreements? or if Sam ends up self-suiciding... which maybe he is less likely to do since he is out of jail.. He might go back out on a press tour, against his attorney's advice (and maybe part of the conditions of his release is that he is not supposed to go out on more speaking tours?).

[NotATether]

so my theory. (whiskey driven this evening) is that SBFdone a deal to blame wang and caroline for fund movements.
(much like his press tour suggested they were to blame when same was free and being interviewed)
so that he could have a month before its his turn to feel the handcuffs.. so SBF could have outted them last month before he got cuffed
though obviously now caught and guilty wang and ellison are definitely doing deals to lesson the penalty

I think he's just an idiot. And those other two guilty people were using their heads and realized that they were in a losing position - which I think Sam is not acknowledging and believes a hail mary moment can still save him.