[Updated] FTX

[suzanne5223]

This is possible because if they (Caroline Ellison and Gary Wang) deny this as well as the SBF then this possibility will also be a bigger shock, especially if their punishment will obviously be a little heavier so it's a good choice actually if they cooperate in this matter, especially there's plenty of evidence too now that they can't deny.

Footing what you guys pointed out. I have a reason to believe everything is all planned out before the fraud charge with the inclusion of Caroline Ellison and Gary Wang's arrest. Besides, SBF since has known this will happen that why he hired a powerful defense Attorney like Mark Cohen.

They are now not colleagues and of course saving yourself is still possible because indeed in this case the difference of opinion between the two of them makes this drama even bigger, of course.
On the other hand, as for SBF, who is now bringing in bigger lawyers, of course to make himself really strong because if he loses, it is clear that several more people will be dragged away, of course in this case his family also does not rule out being dragged along and for To minimize this, there must be a strong defense to defend his argument to the end.

Honestly, Caroline and Wang need to work hard on saving their ass because the way this FTX case is going I don't see SBF going to jail although he may be penalized in the end but the penalty won't worth the damage is done to the FTX customer let's not forget that his father is also a good lawyer, he also hired a powerful lawyer and backed by some powerful people.
In the meantime, let's wait and see what will happen when his case continues since $5Billion have being recover.

I don't see how any fancy lawyers are going to save the asses of SBF, Caroline or Gary, plus a few more heads are likely to roll.

So even if funds are recovered, the magnitude of the shenanigans and the quite apparent nature of the ways that various systems were set up to obfuscate - which likely goes towards specific intentionalities to defraud, it seems quite likely each of them are going to see some jail time.. and perhaps it is a matter of how much. 

They might try to either play the innocently delusional angle or that they were all on drugs.. but that does not seem like it is going to fly sufficiently to keep any of them out of jail.. and again it is a matter of how much jail.. and sure, maybe some of the jail will be relatively cushy.. and yeah, maybe it will be way lighter than it should be, but I would not be so willing to expect that none of them are going to see jail time of decent amounts of time, even if they have fancy lawyers making a variety of wheeler dealer arguments.. . and yeah of course, there is a lot of corruption and a lot of insiders who should have known better in terms of their supporting those dweebs as if they were legitimate.. and a lot of folks were fooled.. so I am not even saying that anyone should have necessarily known because the whole system and construction of their business was set up to create appearances of legitimacy.. which took some sophistication to carry out such levels of defrauding with so much money.. even if they end up being able to recover a lot of it.. the behavior is way beyond repulsive.. for all of them, even if they try to act like innocent children with effective altruistic vegan social justice warrior intentions, their actual actions should really establish that they were frauds and liars the whole time with very specific intentionality behind the various kinds of ways that they were both taking funds and spending the funds.

You have a valid point and I also don't expect a fancy lawyer to save SBF wholly but I believe his penalty will be reduced since he's known for focusing much of his work on charitable operations and he would have been one of the most respected cryptocurrency exchange CEO if he didn't blow it through the abuse of position when he created a back door which also him to make use of users fund.

Don't get me wrong.. I don't want to come off as some kind of pie in the sky fantasy believer that justice prevails in all circumstances because I understand and appreciate that there are a lot of injustices in the world that perpetuate, so even if I am not correct in terms of how these matters play out, I am not going to concede to some projection that injustices have to happen merely because the whole world is corrupt blah blah blah..    There are a lot of pretty influential folks who got fucked pretty bad by the various kinds of deceptions that were going on, and those very influential people are likely NOT going to get bought off too easily.. or at least I would like to think that people are not so willing to get hood-winked when there were $10s of billions of dollars flying around, even if some of that show of value ended up being fake.  A lot of us.. including the public were snowed by their bullshit, including their trying to influence American politics while locating their business off shore and using their high connections to engage in manipulation behaviors, and likely the parents of each of those fucktwats have quite a bit of involvement that may well need to be punished too.. even if the parents of those twats might not get any jailtime.. which those kinds of manipulating designer (and advising) folks likely deserve some of the punishment too.. because those snot-nosed drug-induced privileged vegan dweebs were not even close to smart enough to be able to set up all of the various systems in the way that they had been set up.. even though they did engage in a lot of deception too in terms of various set ups that they had involving lack of armed-length relations between Alameda and FTX and various kinds of deceptive computer coding, naming of clients and lack of accounting practices.. which were also likely designed to obfuscate rather than merely because they were a bunch of incompetents... which shows more intentionality.. from the way it looks from the information that we have so far... NO need to give the twats any kind of pass.. ... even if there were a lot of twats engaging in behaviors that either directly contributed to the deception or some of them might have been more passively just looking the other way.. which is surely not necessarily free from culpability, either.

Yes, there's a lot of injustice in the world starting from the political space, institution, medical, and education there's a lot of corruption. I suspect the involvement of SBF parent in the FTX fraud activities and I believe they preparing something through SBF house arrest.

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[Rikafip]

According to Coindesk, 196/535 members of congress accepted donations from FTX related people. We all knew that SBF was giving money to politicians left and right, but I don't think that anyone thought it would to this extent. Maybe that explains why they behaved like they were invincible.

More than one in three of the 535 senators and representatives in the U.S. Congress showed up to the new session with FTX baggage, having received campaign support from one of the senior executives of the fraud-ridden crypto giant.

CoinDesk has identified 196 members of the new Congress – many of whom were just sworn in last week – who took cash from Sam Bankman-Fried or other senior executives at FTX, a crypto exchange that filed for bankruptcy in Delaware in November after CoinDesk revealed unusually close ties between FTX and Alameda Research, an affiliated hedge fund. The names in Congress range from the heights of both chambers, including new Speaker of the House Kevin McCarthy (R-Calif.) and Senate Majority Leader Chuck Schumer (D-N.Y.), down to a list of recipients new to high-level politics.

[dkbit98]

According to Coindesk, 196/535 members of congress accepted donations from FTX related people. We all knew that SBF was giving money to politicians left and right, but I don't think that anyone thought it would to this extent. Maybe that explains why they behaved like they were invincible.

I wouldn't be surprised if all of this corrupted politician parasites now become one of the biggest advocates to add new strict restrictions for Bitcoin  
This is the way how Scam Bankman and people like him do normal ''business'', and politicians are probably even worse.
You can mask every transaction you make in fiat currency by sticking it ''donation'' and ''charitable'' label, and you will get bonus of reduced taxes for that.

[NotATether]

The new CEO of the FTX exchange told the WSJ about a possible restart of the FTX exchange: New FTX Chief Says Crypto Exchange Could Restart.

Amid these news, FTT rose by 40%:

...to $2.27 !!!  

Will they really revive this exchange, especially with such a reputation?

No.

Even if they do restart, everyone's funds in the international corp have already been lost to users, and they will never get them back because FTX will just zero out their balances.

Don't think they're going to extend an olive branch after they screwed people over. It's like expecting a scammer to give you your money back.

I don't know about you, but I just want FTX to keep burning. And stay in their crash (and all execs involved in this crap jailed).

[Ryu_Ar1]

Will they really revive this exchange, especially with such a reputation?

I think in the end this coin will only last a while. Regardless of anything there are still many people who still get losses here so that when they come back it will only be a pump and dump scheme like what happened to Luna by always doing hype and returning to basic prices. In the end a coin that has lost trust and reputation will obviously not be able to be cured I think because it will only be like manipulation in the end.

[Bitcoin_Arena]

The new CEO of the FTX exchange told the WSJ about a possible restart of the FTX exchange: New FTX Chief Says Crypto Exchange Could Restart.

Amid these news, FTT rose by 40%:

looks like a pump and dump where the whales and other manipulators keep hunting for noobs and small fish that have no idea what's going on with FTT expect just buying due to FOMO but long term,  I don't think it will make a come back.

Will they really revive this exchange, especially with such a reputation?

I really doubt and I hope they never succeed

[Rikafip]

I wish SBF was not where it is now, flying in business class, holding meetings, giving interviews and spending millions of dollars on its comfort, but sitting in a prison cell and getting a real prison term.

Afaik, part of his his bail agreement is that he is on the house arrest meaning he can't fly around and hold meetings. Sure, everyone would like him to sit in prison cell while waiting for trial  but that's how it goes for rich people even for bigger scammers than him, like Bernie Madoff for example.

I really doubt and I hope they never succeed

If they manage to to make at least users of FTX US whole I can see them trying again. They are very well aware of the fact that an average crypto user has the memory of a goldfish so in a few years barely anyone will remember this fiasco.

[JayJuanGee]

Afaik, part of his his bail agreement is that he is on the house arrest meaning he can't fly around and hold meetings. Sure, everyone would like him to sit in prison cell while waiting for trial  but that's how it goes for rich people even for bigger scammers than him, like Bernie Madoff for example.

It is yet to be determined whether Sam is a bigger scammer than Bernie.   Bernie is dead so his history is locked in, and perhaps quite a bit is already known about the level of Bernie's scams and looking at Bernie retrospectively.

[Rikafip]

It is yet to be determined whether Sam is a bigger scammer than Bernie.   Bernie is dead so his history is locked in, and perhaps quite a bit is already known about the level of Bernie's scams and looking at Bernie retrospectively.

Well, Bernie ran his ponzi scheme for decades while SBF business went down in a couple of years which says a lot already. On top of that (unless something surprising happens)total amount of money lost will probably be on Bernie side as well.  Anyway, at least I hope the in the end SBF doesn't turn out to be a bigger scammer, for the sake of all the people that had money in FTX.

[JayJuanGee]

It is yet to be determined whether Sam is a bigger scammer than Bernie.   Bernie is dead so his history is locked in, and perhaps quite a bit is already known about the level of Bernie's scams and looking at Bernie retrospectively.

Well, Bernie ran his ponzi scheme for decades while SBF business went down in a couple of years which says a lot already. On top of that (unless something surprising happens)total amount of money lost will probably be on Bernie side as well.  Anyway, at least I hope the in the end SBF doesn't turn out to be a bigger scammer, for the sake of all the people that had money in FTX.

It is not easy to be making those kinds of comparisons because the situations are different, and from the facts that we so far see, it appears that there was a lot of political connections involved in FTX in ways quite different than the various ways that the Bernie Madoff system was set up.... even a kind of attack on bitcoin people consider in this particular case.  My point still stands that it seems to be way too early to be calling which one was BIGGER - except maybe if you are trying to limit the ways in which you discuss it, such as how long it was going on or how much money was sucked out and from what kinds of clients..   

The number of organizations involved in FTX in such a short time, and the various likely deceptive organizations that FTX created in order to obfuscate what they were doing seems to involved way more people in the scamming, even though so far there seems to be some focus on the three that had been indicted (Sam, Caroline and Wang).. there may well be other indictments and complications, and I would not even presume that everything is necessarily going to be uncovered - even though we have a lot of internet sleuths (including peeps on this forum like you and me) who are also looking at and double checking the FTX case as it is investigated.. and sure some of that may have been happening in the Madoff case too.. but I would be careful in terms of making too many narrow comparisons when this FTX case still seems to be in its pretty early stages of figuring out various financial balances (debts/liabilities), who was involved in what capacities, other entities falling around it (prior to its fall and afterwards), possible prior attempts to affinity scam and influence regulators that may have been prompted by some of the regulators themselves, etc etc.

[Bitcoin_Arena]

The old story comes to mind that the SBF claimed he had 100,000 bucks left and nothing else.

I don't know if there is anyone else who still believes anything that thug says 

Everything he says just seems to be a lie. F**K the justice system. The A-Hole should already be in a Super-max prison, locked away in solitary confinement with a key thrown away in the middle of the Pacific Ocean!!!

[Smack That Ace]

Has anyone read this news? After publishing a 116-page list of creditors, it can be seen that FTX is really the biggest crypto crash ever when it involves a series of famous large companies like: APPLE, Netflix, Wall Street Journal, Fortune, Fox Broadcasting and CoinDesk, Coinbase and Binance, American, Spirit and Southwest Airlines...Although the document did not specify the specific amount of debt, many sources revealed that FTX owes the 50 largest creditors up to $ 3.1 billion. It's a lot bigger than the demise of Mt.gox, IMO.
https://cryptoadventure.com/netflix-apple-and-wsj-were-creditors-to-ftx-filings-show/

[Rikafip]

My point still stands that it seems to be way too early to be calling which one was BIGGER - except maybe if you are trying to limit the ways in which you discuss it, such as how long it was going on or how much money was sucked out and from what kinds of clients..

It was not my intention to dig deep into who will end up being remembered as a bigger scammer, I merely mentioned Bernie Madoff because people were surprised that SBF was out on bail and not rotting in prison while waiting for trial, to show that's just business as usual and it was unrealistic to expect that given the circumstances and usual practice.

[bbc.reporter]

News update. More on this comedy show.

It appears it is now presently Silvergate that is being under an investigation. The backers of these honorable senators from the American banking system might have ordered this because the partnership of Silvergate with an exchange from the cryptospace threatens their monopoly on moneylaudering and other services they have available for the crime lords hehe.



The Department of Justice’s fraud unit is looking into California-based Silvergate Bank’s hosting of accounts tied to FTX and Alameda Research, Bloomberg reported, citing anonymous sources close to the probe.

After the collapse of FTX in November 2022, Silvergate reported that worried investors pulled $8.1 billion in crypto deposits in an epic bank run that some called worse than those seen during the great depression.

Regulators have also taken aim at Silvergate, with Senators Elizabeth Warren (D-Mass.), John Kennedy (R-La), and Roger Marshall (R-Kan) saying in a letter to Silvergate CEO Alan Lane that the bank has “further introduced crypto market risk into the traditional banking system” through its dealing with Bankman-Fried and FTX.

Source https://decrypt.co/120482/silvergate-bank-ftx-justice-department-senate

[Smack That Ace]

The story is getting more and more fun and funny.
According to Unusual_whales posted. FTX has sent a letter, claiming back the donations from politicians they have donated over the past 2 years in the amount of more than 90 million USD and the deadline for politicians to pay them is February 2023. It seems that donations to politicians over the past 2 years cannot help SBF avoid punishment, so he is trying to get back what he has donated. This is the first time I have witnessed someone asking for a refund after donating .


https://twitter.com/unusual_whales/status/1622339655013392384

[Rikafip]

According to Unusual_whales posted. FTX has sent a letter, claiming back the donations from politicians they have donated over the past 2 years in the amount of more than 90 million USD and the deadline for politicians to pay them is February 2023. It seems that donations to politicians over the past 2 years cannot help SBF avoid punishment, so he is trying to get back what he has donated. This is the first time I have witnessed someone asking for a refund after donating .

Its not the SBF that is asking for money back but FTX, and its been expected as it was pretty much announced a month ago that they will ask for money back from all those who received donations from FTX &SBF. From what I understand, so called claw back is pretty much standard practice in bankruptcy cases similar to this. and is not a precedent.

I expect majority to give back the money asap as they know it is a bad PR to be connected with anything related to FTX at the moment.

[Ryu_Ar1]

The story is getting more and more fun and funny.
According to Unusual_whales posted. FTX has sent a letter, claiming back the donations from politicians they have donated over the past 2 years in the amount of more than 90 million USD and the deadline for politicians to pay them is February 2023. It seems that donations to politicians over the past 2 years cannot help SBF avoid punishment, so he is trying to get back what he has donated. This is the first time I have witnessed someone asking for a refund after donating .

This was done by FTX and I don't think this has anything to do with SBF, although we really don't know what's behind it all, but judging from the current news,
 

TX advisors have been seeking to recover funds improperly provided by Bankman-Fried.

https://watcher.guru/news/ftx-sends-confidential-letters-asking-politicians-to-return-donations

With this, they really seem to want to return FTX to its original condition and this was preceded by taking back the funds that the SBF had previously given to several politicians who were deemed inappropriate.
On the other hand, apart from taking from politicians, it is also rumored to have taken back the funds he donated to Florida students as scholarships. Although indeed with this it makes several statements that consider that taking back funds from children who get scholarships is a mistake and is considered a moral problem.

[bittraffic]

The story is getting more and more fun and funny.
According to Unusual_whales posted. FTX has sent a letter, claiming back the donations from politicians they have donated over the past 2 years in the amount of more than 90 million USD and the deadline for politicians to pay them is February 2023. It seems that donations to politicians over the past 2 years cannot help SBF avoid punishment, so he is trying to get back what he has donated. This is the first time I have witnessed someone asking for a refund after donating .

This was done by FTX and I don't think this has anything to do with SBF, although we really don't know what's behind it all, but judging from the current news,
 

TX advisors have been seeking to recover funds improperly provided by Bankman-Fried.

https://watcher.guru/news/ftx-sends-confidential-letters-asking-politicians-to-return-donations

With this, they really seem to want to return FTX to its original condition and this was preceded by taking back the funds that the SBF had previously given to several politicians who were deemed inappropriate.
On the other hand, apart from taking from politicians, it is also rumored to have taken back the funds he donated to Florida students as scholarships. Although indeed with this it makes several statements that consider that taking back funds from children who get scholarships is a mistake and is considered a moral problem.

They have to return the money back with interest or they face bankruptcy court according to PRN 

This is insane and it's really a disaster if the politician already spent the money like that Florida student scholarship. That politician still has to get it back because it does not prevent the FTX debtors from seeking recovery from the recipient or any subsequent transferee./ https://www.theguardian.com/business/2023/feb/06/ftx-exchange-sam-bankman-fried-donations

I don't know what they are really up to but bringing back FTX is not possible. With the kind of people in crypto who are not very trusting, I don't think many will be using it.

[JayJuanGee]

The story is getting more and more fun and funny.
According to Unusual_whales posted. FTX has sent a letter, claiming back the donations from politicians they have donated over the past 2 years in the amount of more than 90 million USD and the deadline for politicians to pay them is February 2023. It seems that donations to politicians over the past 2 years cannot help SBF avoid punishment, so he is trying to get back what he has donated. This is the first time I have witnessed someone asking for a refund after donating .

This was done by FTX and I don't think this has anything to do with SBF, although we really don't know what's behind it all, but judging from the current news,

TX advisors have been seeking to recover funds improperly provided by Bankman-Fried.

https://watcher.guru/news/ftx-sends-confidential-letters-asking-politicians-to-return-donations

With this, they really seem to want to return FTX to its original condition and this was preceded by taking back the funds that the SBF had previously given to several politicians who were deemed inappropriate.
On the other hand, apart from taking from politicians, it is also rumored to have taken back the funds he donated to Florida students as scholarships. Although indeed with this it makes several statements that consider that taking back funds from children who get scholarships is a mistake and is considered a moral problem.

They have to return the money back with interest or they face bankruptcy court according to PRN  

This is insane and it's really a disaster if the politician already spent the money like that Florida student scholarship. That politician still has to get it back because it does not prevent the FTX debtors from seeking recovery from the recipient or any subsequent transferee./ https://www.theguardian.com/business/2023/feb/06/ftx-exchange-sam-bankman-fried-donations

I don't know what they are really up to but bringing back FTX is not possible. With the kind of people in crypto who are not very trusting, I don't think many will be using it.

It does not matter if the funds that FTX and/or SBF had donated to politicians were used for good causes or to save babies or whatever, those funds were fraudulently donated, so they should go back to the FTX estate for potential distribution to creditors.

It also does not matter if FTX is or is not going to try to open up again.. the fraudulently donated funds need to go back to the FTX estate for potential distribtution to creditors.

[Ryu_Ar1]

This was done by FTX and I don't think this has anything to do with SBF, although we really don't know what's behind it all, but judging from the current news,

TX advisors have been seeking to recover funds improperly provided by Bankman-Fried.

https://watcher.guru/news/ftx-sends-confidential-letters-asking-politicians-to-return-donations

With this, they really seem to want to return FTX to its original condition and this was preceded by taking back the funds that the SBF had previously given to several politicians who were deemed inappropriate.
On the other hand, apart from taking from politicians, it is also rumored to have taken back the funds he donated to Florida students as scholarships. Although indeed with this it makes several statements that consider that taking back funds from children who get scholarships is a mistake and is considered a moral problem.

They have to return the money back with interest or they face bankruptcy court according to PRN  

This is insane and it's really a disaster if the politician already spent the money like that Florida student scholarship. That politician still has to get it back because it does not prevent the FTX debtors from seeking recovery from the recipient or any subsequent transferee./ https://www.theguardian.com/business/2023/feb/06/ftx-exchange-sam-bankman-fried-donations

I don't know what they are really up to but bringing back FTX is not possible. With the kind of people in crypto who are not very trusting, I don't think many will be using it.

It does not matter if the funds that FTX and/or SBF had donated to politicians were used for good causes or to save babies or whatever, those funds were fraudulently donated, so they should go back to the FTX estate for potential distribution to creditors.

It also does not matter if FTX is or is not going to try to open up again.. the fraudulently donated funds need to go back to the FTX estate for potential distribtution to creditors.

This is the point. The problem is that in this condition even though those who receive donations there don't know anything about FTX, with the wrong decision before they get into trouble. FTX wanted the money back because indeed it was their money that was misused by SBF but on the other hand this was also a little complicated because SBF's mistake was that everything that was originally not related to their finances was carried away now.
But seeing from the article provided by @bittraffic, actually the amount of this donation is only a small part of the total money they manipulated.

The US attorney for the southern district of New York, Damian Williams, said Bankman-Fried and his colleagues siphoned off billions of dollars in customer funds from FTX to spend on luxury properties, other investments, political contributions and to prop up a hedge fund also set up by Bankman-Fried.

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2023/feb/06/ftx-exchange-sam-bankman-fried-donations

Now FTX is still eager to get things back on track despite recovering $5 billion last month.