Will Ukraine win the war with NATO's covert assistance?

[Sexylizzy2813]

Ukraine applied to join the NATO, and in a bid to extend it's arm of support, member countries have pledged millions of dollars worth of air defence systems to guard Ukraine against Russia.

Countries that have pitched in to support Ukraine are Germany, the US, U.K, Canada, France, Netherland and Poland.
Germany has sent units of its Iris-T air infrared-guided air defence system, and the first four of them have already arrived in Ukraine.
Weapons from Germany include self-propelled anti-aircraft guns and portable surface-to-air missiles.

The US has pledged to send the NASAMS system, which can also shoot down aircraft, cruise missiles and drones.The US has also given Ukraine weaponry worth more than $15bn (£13.5bn), including the long-range Himars system, Javelin anti-tank missiles, howitzers and Switchblade "kamikaze" drones.

UK, Canada, France and Netherlands are also sending air defence systems.

Poland is providing almost a quarter of Ukraine's weapons from abroad, including T-72 tanks and missiles for its fighter jets. Some of the Soviet-era equipment it has provided has been upgraded to perform better.

Equipment sent by the UK includes NLAW anti-tank weapons and MLRS long-range missile systems.

Since the invasion of Russia in Ukraine,this has turn out to be a massive amount of arms NATO countries have been sending to Ukraine since February. In addition to these, NATO also included extensive training to Ukrainian troops.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-18023383

 I'm curious, with all this supplies will they be able to win or is
zelensky just prolonging the inevitable??

[o48o]

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 I'm curious, with all this supplies will they be able to win or is
zelensky just prolonging the inevitable??

I guess this depends of your opinion of "winning", as this is a real life event, not a game where there are winners and losers. I would settle for peace. Russia will never admit that they lost. And when you think about this senseless destruction of cities and lives, do you really think things would heal very quickly?

And even after that peace there will probably be ton of pissed off Ukrainians trying to get their justice one way or another. They will most likely try to revenge all the torturing, raping and pillaging by something Russia will call terrorism. Only thing speeding up the healing would be to overthrow Putin and withdrawing immediately. Ukraine will most likely want their their old borders back so that's going to be an issue as well.

Sadly replacing putin could mean there's going to be even more war-hungry megalomaniac in charge. Putin is going to be hard to beat on that but there are many crazy officials ready to step in.

[electronicash]

the leaders are laughing. but zelensky is the guy. brave soul. Biden and Xi gives thumbs up to him.
the latest was that when missile hit Poland, NATO was quick to tell the world Ukraine and Russia uses the same made in Russia missiles.

all of the leaders are in g20 meeting in Indonesia including Putin and Xi. they could just be talking there and decide to stop after all they have seen the effects and result of this war. this meeting is just the same as a regular meet up with acquaintances. i can only imagine Putin brags about his weapons. here's a dialogue.

Putin: hey did you see my Kinzhal shoot? finally tested it! awesome!
Xi: (pats Putin's back)
Steinmeier: you hypersonic better explode because if one gets into our hands, we can reverse engineer it.
Biden: sure sure sure so ahh are we ready for the great reset?
Putin: no no no. i want kherson too.
Biden: (face palm) people we talked about this...

[Majestic-milf]

I'm curious, with all this supplies will they be able to win or is
zelensky just prolonging the inevitable??

 Putin's ready to wait every one out: the NATO, Ukraine and any other allies, plus it looks as if the hands of NATO are tied since Ukraine is not fully registered as a member and I also think Biden is a bit skeptic to go all in and support Russia as he's avoiding a possible fallout as well. The painful thing's that for every delay and counter attack, it's innocent lives that are being lost and properties being destroyed.

 

[Sexylizzy2813]

I'm curious, with all this supplies will they be able to win or is
zelensky just prolonging the inevitable??

 Putin's ready to wait every one out: the NATO, Ukraine and any other allies, plus it looks as if the hands of NATO are tied since Ukraine is not fully registered as a member and I also think Biden is a bit skeptic to go all in and support Russia as he's avoiding a possible fallout as well. The painful thing's that for every delay and counter attack, it's innocent lives that are being lost and properties being destroyed.

 

Putin is going to do all it takes to let everyone know that he's not afraid of the NATO.
I still don't get it, why help or should I say support a country that's not yet a member of the NATO,  IMO I think these countries especially the US knows what they'll get in return by helping out. Only time will tell.

[Sexylizzy2813]

Poland is providing almost a quarter of Ukraine's weapons from abroad, including T-72 tanks and missiles for its fighter jets. Some of the Soviet-era equipment it has provided has been upgraded to perform better.

Nato agrees with Poland's early assessment of Wednesday's missile strike - in that it most likely came from Ukrainian air defence.

Speaking to the BBC, secretary general Jens Stoltenberg said "accidents happen" in war but still put the onus on Russia. He said Russia bears the "ultimate responsibility" saying "it would not have happened if Russia hadn't waged a brutal war of aggression against Ukraine".

He emphasised the need for these type of mistakes not to "spiral out of control", adding that there are lines of communication between the US and Russia, and between Nato and Russia.

https://www.bbc.com/news/av/world-63656352

Mistakes happens but with all these weapons been sent to Ukraine by Poland, and with this Poland strike, is it really coming from Ukraine by accident?
Who's to blame for all these, Russia or Ukraine?
Things are really getting complicated...

[LTU_btc]

NATO countries spending huge part of their defense budget to supply weapons to Ukraine. But it's not enough. For counter offensive operation they need long range missiles, but NATO isn't giving as they don't want "escalate conflict". Ukraine is liberating occupied territories, but it's not going as fast they want want and it costs too many lifes of their soldiers. Also, they need much more air defense systems. Currently they managed to shhot down something like 70%-80% of Russian missiles and drones. It looks like good numbers, but remaining 20-30% is making huge damage to their infrastructure.
Also, big part of arms that they get is soviet tanks, jets or very old howitzers and armored vehicles. Offcourse, it's better than nothing.

Mistakes happens but with all these weapons been sent to Ukraine by Poland, and with this Poland strike, is it really coming from Ukraine by accident?
Who's to blame for all these, Russia or Ukraine?
Things are really getting complicated...

Do you want to say that they did it intentionally? What would be point of it? Involve NATO into this war directly? I don't believe in such version.
Ukraine still believes that it was Russian missile and they want to participate in investigation of accident.
Even if was Ukrainian missile, most blame still goes to Russia. As Scholz said, "it's clear that this would not have happened without the Russian war against Ukraine, without the rockets which are constantly, in large numbers fired at Ukrainian infrastructure":
https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/germanys-scholz-hopeful-g20-resolution-condemning-russian-invasion-2022-11-15/

[Sexylizzy2813]

This situation is getting more complicated every second of the time...
If this attack on Poland isn't investigated properly I just see the whole blame going to Russia and not Ukraine, because currently we don't know who shot the missiles on Poland leaving two villagers dead, and if it happens to be that is Russia, I see the NATO members protecting there own and joining the war directly instead of supplying weapons to Ukraine.
Things are really getting out of hand...


Russia is being accused of a missile strike that killed two people in Poland.

Here's what we know about the developing situation that has caused alarm across the world.

What has happened?

There was an explosion at 3.40pm local time (1.40pm UK time) after a missile hit a grain silo in the eastern village of Przewodow, near the Ukraine border.

Two Polish citizens were killed.

Poland's foreign ministry initially said the missile was made in Russia but, later, Poland's president Andrzej Duda was more cautious, saying it was not yet clear who fired the missile or where it was made.

Mr Duda said it was "most probably" Russian-made but this was still being verified.

Polish Prime Minister Mateusz Morawiecki called an urgent meeting to discuss national security.

Poland raised the readiness of its military units and the Mr Duda spoke with US President Joe Biden and Ukraine's President Volodymyr Zelenskyy.

What has Russia said?

Russia's defence ministry has described reports of Moscow's involvement as a "deliberate provocation aimed at escalating the situation".

It added in a statement: "No strikes on targets near the Ukrainian-Polish state border were made by Russian means of destruction."

However, a large number of Russian missiles had been launched at Ukraine on Tuesday, with several hitting the city of Lviv, just 50 miles from the Polish border.

What has NATO said?

NATO Secretary-General Jens Stoltenberg spoke to Mr Duda about the explosion late on Tuesday.

"I offered my condolences for the loss of life," he said in a statement.

"NATO is monitoring the situation and allies are closely consulting. Important that all facts are established."

Poland has not been directly involved in the war, but has welcomed millions of Ukrainian refugees and widely condemned Russia's aggression.

What has Ukraine said?

President Zelenskyy said he had long warned that Russia's actions were not limited to Ukraine.

He added that any strike on a NATO country was a "significant escalation" and called for "action".

What happens next?

The first step is to investigate what happened.

NATO leaders will meet in Brussels later today and are likely to seek to invoke Article 4 of the North Atlantic Treaty.

According to Article 4 of the alliance's founding treaty, members can raise any issue of concern, especially issues related to security.

A more extreme measure would be to invoke Article 5, which provides that if a NATO member is the victim of an armed attack, every other member of the alliance will consider this as an attack against all members and will take the actions it deems necessary to assist.

How has the world reacted?

Leaders of the world's largest economies are in Bali for the G20 summit, so US President Joe Biden called a meeting between G7 leaders and the NATO members present in the early hours of Wednesday UK time.

After the meeting, he seemed to contradict reports that the missile had come from Russia, saying: "It is unlikely in the lines of the trajectory that it was fired from Russia, but we'll see."

Shortly after the explosion, Slovak Defence Minister Jaroslav Nad said he was "very concerned by Russian missiles dropping in Poland", adding: "Russia must explain what happened. Senseless attacks on infrastructure must stop immediately.

"Russia's recklessness is getting out of hand."

US Pentagon spokesman Brigadier General Patrick Ryder said America would "defend every inch of NATO territory", but added that he had "no information to corroborate press reports" of the alleged Russian attack.UK Foreign Secretary James Cleverly tweeted: "We are urgently looking into reports of missiles landing in Poland, and are in contact with our Polish friends and NATO allies."

Germany's foreign minister, Annalena Baerbock, said she was monitoring the situation closely and in contact with Poland and NATO allies.

Belgian Prime Minister Alexander De Croo tweeted: "We are all part of the NATO family."

The Estonian foreign ministry said the news from Poland was "most alarming" and it was ready to defend "every inch of NATO territory".

https://news.sky.com/story/poland-what-we-know-about-russian-missile-strike-in-nato-territory-12748459


If the missiles is truly from Russia and not Ukraine, Will NATO join the war and protect it's own or rub this whole thing off and go for peace talk to end this war?

[Zlantann]

This situation is getting more complicated every second of the time...
If this attack on Poland isn't investigated properly I just see the whole blame going to Russia and not Ukraine, because currently we don't know who shot the missiles on Poland leaving two villagers dead, and if it happens to be that is Russia, I see the NATO members protecting there own and joining the war directly instead of supplying weapons to Ukraine.
Things are really getting out of hand...

Although an investigation into the attack on Poland is still ongoing, but from all indications that missile didn't come from Russia. President of the US Joe Biden stated that it was unlikely that the attack was carried out by Russia. The Russian military has also denied that it carried out such an attack. Rather they are suspecting that it was one of the air defense missiles fired by Ukraine in a bid to defend itself against Russian attack. But Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky is claiming that this attack was orchestrated by Russia and that the world should act accordingly.

Poland is a member of NATO and it has the right to invoke Article 4 of NATO’s treaty which starts the discussion about the attack if it is discovered that they are in danger, Article 5 of NATO’s treaty can be invoked which could lead to NATO members joining the war. But for now, that missile likely came from Ukraine and I pray it was from there. This is because the world might not survive a full-scale war between Russia and NATO.    

[Maestro75]

This is a war and not a video game. Nobody wins when a war is involved. All the parties involved gets hurt one way or the other. Whether Ukraine joins NATO officially or not, the world knows that NATO countries have been aiding Ukraine in the war with Russia since it started. What I guess will happen now is that Russia is more likely to transfer its aggression to other countries and attack them with biological weapons. We are in for the worse now.

[mindrust]

NATO won't go to war for Ukraine and Ukraine can't win shit unless somebody else win their war for them. No matter how many weapons Ukraine gets from NATO, it won't make a difference because Russia is just too strong for them to handle. In the end Russia will get whatever they want, NATO won't lift a finger (it is because Ukraine isn't a NATO country) and life will go on as usual. Hell I am not even sure if NATO would help Poland or Turkey if Russia was invading these countries. NATO should just disband imo.

[cryptomaxsun]

NATO won't go to war for Ukraine and Ukraine can't win shit unless somebody else their war for them. No matter how many weapons Ukraine gets from NATO, it won't make a difference because Russia is just too strong for them to handle. In the end Russia will get whatever they want, NATO won't lift a finger (it is because Ukraine isn't a NATO country) and life will go on as usual. Hell I am not even sure if NATO would help Poland or Turkey if Russia was invading these countries. NATO should just disband imo.

Why do you have so much love for russia and hatred for Ukraine?
What did the Ukrainians do wrong to you?

[mindrust]

NATO won't go to war for Ukraine and Ukraine can't win shit unless somebody else their war for them. No matter how many weapons Ukraine gets from NATO, it won't make a difference because Russia is just too strong for them to handle. In the end Russia will get whatever they want, NATO won't lift a finger (it is because Ukraine isn't a NATO country) and life will go on as usual. Hell I am not even sure if NATO would help Poland or Turkey if Russia was invading these countries. NATO should just disband imo.

Why do you have so much love for russia and hatred for Ukraine?
What did the Ukrainians do wrong to you?

I don't hate Ukrainians. I don't particularly love Russians neither. They are pretty much the same people for me. The difference is one of them sockpuppeting NATO even thought they are not a member and the other one has a legit claim which is not wanting any NATO members on their borders.

Russia said to Ukraine: "Don't join NATO or get ready for the consequences."

Ukraine said to Russia: "We are an independent country we do whatever we want."

Well, Russia is an independent country too and now they are doing "whatever" they want. They don't want any NATO presence in Ukraine just like how the US don't want any Russian missiles in Cuba.

All Ukraine had to do was getting along well with Putin but he had that crazy idea of winning a war against Russia. Zelensky the NATO plant is delusional and ruined Ukraine completely.

[Majestic-milf]

NATO won't go to war for Ukraine and Ukraine can't win shit unless somebody else their war for them. No matter how many weapons Ukraine gets from NATO, it won't make a difference because Russia is just too strong for them to handle. In the end Russia will get whatever they want, NATO won't lift a finger (it is because Ukraine isn't a NATO country) and life will go on as usual. Hell I am not even sure if NATO would help Poland or Turkey if Russia was invading these countries. NATO should just disband imo.

Why do you have so much love for russia and hatred for Ukraine?
What did the Ukrainians do wrong to you?

I don't hate Ukrainians. I don't particularly love Russians neither. They are pretty much the same people for me. The difference is one of them sockpuppeting NATO even thought they are not a member and the other one has a legit claim which is not wanting any NATO members on their borders.

Russia said to Ukraine: "Don't join NATO or get ready for the consequences."

Ukraine said to Russia: "We are an independent country we do whatever we want."

Well, Russia is an independent country too and now they are doing "whatever" they want. They don't want any NATO presence in Ukraine just like how the US don't want any Russian missiles in Cuba.

All Ukraine had to do was getting along well with Putin but he had that crazy idea of winning a war against Russia. Zelensky the NATO plant is delusional and ruined Ukraine completely.

The US right from time know how to puppeteer countries to get what they want and it's no doubt that Biden needs something from the Ukrainians.
 The war began as the US tried to use Ukraine as a means to contain the Russian government, using them as bait to further push their stronghold into the East and maintain a US led unipolar world order. This action by both the US and NATO goes against the agreement they signed that the West would stay away from the East.

 One would see the actions and donations of the NATO as magnanimous, I see it as all a grand plan to flush Russia out. Sadly Putin is aware of their plans.

[o48o]

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All Ukraine had to do was getting along well with Putin but he had that crazy idea of winning a war against Russia. Zelensky the NATO plant is delusional and ruined Ukraine completely.

Wow, by your logic everyone just has to do as Russia tells them or get ready to be invaded? Or get invaded even if you do?
Well now Putin played Finland And Sweden to NATO too which seemed impossible just before the invasion and most Finnish people were always against that. Before the war happened.

Issue with Russia would be that if they succeeded invading Ukraine, it wouldn't stop there. Putin has been pretty clear that what comes to borders, he want's to fix the mistakes of Lenin, and Finland is one of them.

[BADecker]

There is a lot of world that the US doesn't have as much influence over as it thinks it does. As the US, Europe and Australia impose even greater and more sanctions on Russia, Russian oil flows to Asia and India.


ENERGY REDIRECTED: Two-thirds of Russian seaborne oil exports are now going to Asia

Two-thirds of all Russian seaborne oil exports are now heading to Asian countries as the country continues to divest itself from relying on the European oil trade.

Before the European Union (EU), the United States and their allies imposed sanctions on Russia over the country’s special military operation in Ukraine, seaborne crude oil deliveries to Asia accounted for less than two-fifths of all Russian seaborne crude sales. Within a span of six months, where Russian oil goes has changed completely.

China and India are forming the backbone of the latest surge in Russian seaborne oil exports. Other countries like Turkey, Sri Lanka and the United Arab Emirates are also deepening their ties with Russia by purchasing more oil. (Related: US-EU price cap on Russian oil threatens India’s crude imports and economic growth.)

In the 28 days leading up to Friday, Nov. 11, the volume of Russian crude oil heading to China, India, Turkey and to several other countries has  soared to a record 2.39 million barrels of crude per day.

China and India still make up the vast majority of this Asia-bound crude. In the week ending on Nov. 11, China and India received 880,000 and 750,000 barrels of Russian crude per day by the sea, respectively. Turkey received 300,000 barrels of crude per day and around 410,000 went to unknown destinations.

Tankers hauling Russian crude are becoming more secretive about their destinations because of fears that the EU or the U.S. might retaliate if they find out certain countries are purchasing more Russian oil.
Brighteon.TV

Russia diverting even more oil to Asia to avoid new oil sanctions

The U.S., EU and their allies, including the United Kingdom and Australia, have imposed a new set of sanctions on Russia that will come into effect on Dec. 5.

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[mindrust]

-cut-
All Ukraine had to do was getting along well with Putin but he had that crazy idea of winning a war against Russia. Zelensky the NATO plant is delusional and ruined Ukraine completely.

Wow, by your logic everyone just has to do as Russia tells them or get ready to be invaded? Or get invaded even if you do?
Well now Putin played Finland And Sweden to NATO too which seemed impossible just before the invasion and most Finnish people were always against that. Before the war happened.

Issue with Russia would be that if they succeeded invading Ukraine, it wouldn't stop there. Putin has been pretty clear that what comes to borders, he want's to fix the mistakes of Lenin, and Finland is one of them.

Yes that’s how my logic works.

This exact thing happened when the US invaded Iraq and Syria.

This is how this game works. Big fish eats little fish. Wake up snowflake.

Hopefully Finland and Sweden ain’t dumb enough to join Nato.

[PredictionCLub]

Ukraine will definitely win, but it will lose the future of the country. Even as a country, in the international situation where there are many powerful powers, there is very little element that it can control, even its own destiny.

[Sexylizzy2813]

Ukraine will definitely win, but it will lose the future of the country. Even as a country, in the international situation where there are many powerful powers, there is very little element that it can control, even its own destiny.

Ukraine to win the the war? That's definitely not going to happen, frankly speaking, this war is going to be a thing of the past (hopefully) and I think is going to end up in a peace talk. But my fear is, after the peace talk (that's if it happens) can both Nations forget about the past? Like coming together, exchanging goods and services, can it happen that way?

[BADecker]

The war might be getting closer to an end now that the US doesn't have enough missiles to supply them with. But Ukraine still might buy some missiles from some other countries... with cash from the US. War pays the missile makers.


U.S. tells Ukraine it cannot provide strategic missiles because American forces simply don’t have enough


https://www.naturalnews.com/2023-02-17-us-tells-ukraine-it-cannot-provide-strategic-missiles.html
For once, the Biden regime appears to be telling the Ukrainian government to pound sand over its latest weapons request.

The United States has notified Ukraine that it does not possess sufficient numbers of Army Tactical Missile Systems (ATACMs), which have a range of 190 miles, to provide assistance to Kyiv, as the conflict between Ukraine and Russia continues to escalate with a new Russian offensive. The news comes as Ukraine seeks greater military support from the Biden government in its ongoing conflict.

According to Politico, the U.S. has informed Ukraine that it lacks the necessary number of long-range missiles to provide military aid. While Biden has provided other forms of military assistance to Ukraine, including weapons and training, the lack of long-range missiles could be a significant setback for Ukraine’s efforts to defend itself against Russia’s new offensives, Politico reported, adding that the U.S. military has to retain what inventory it has in case its own forces need them.

“With any package, we always consider our readiness and our own stocks while providing Ukraine what it needs on the battlefield,” said a senior DoD official. “There are other ways of providing Ukraine with the capabilities it needs to strike the targets.”

The situation in Ukraine has been tense for years, with Russia’s annexation of Crimea in 2014 and ongoing conflict in the Donbass region. The recent escalation of violence has only added to the already volatile situation, as Ukraine has sought support from the U.S. and NATO.

However, with the news that the US does not possess enough long-range missiles to provide assistance, Ukraine may attempt to purchase ATACMs from other countries that have them such as Poland, Romania, Greece, Turkey, South Korea, Qatar and Bahrain. The longer-range missiles can be used with the HIMARS rocket systems that Ukraine already possesses.
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