Is there a chance we get a takedown notice?

[LoyceV]

How would you feel if your governement makes a no mixer law and backdates it so that you have to explain your involvement as an advertisement service for them? and user of their service as you just admitted to.

If your government punishes you for something that wasn't illegal at the time, you have much bigger things to worry about. It would be a Human Rights violation:

Article 7 No punishment without law

1 No one shall be held guilty of any criminal offence on account of any act or omission which did not constitute a criminal offence under national or international law at the time when it was committed. Nor shall a heavier penalty be imposed than the one that was applicable at the time the criminal offence was committed.

2 This Article shall not prejudice the trial and punishment of any person for any act or omission which, at the time when it was committed, was criminal according to the general principles of law recognised by civilised nations.

This means that:

The right to no punishment without law is absolute. This means that it cannot be restricted in any way.

So to answer your question: if my government would do what you suggested, it would be time to bring out the pitchforks.

[1714957408]

1714957408

[1714957408]

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[1714957408]

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[philipma1957]

How would you feel if your governement makes a no mixer law and backdates it so that you have to explain your involvement as an advertisement service for them? and user of their service as you just admitted to.

If your government punishes you for something that wasn't illegal at the time, you have much bigger things to worry about. It would be a Human Rights violation:

Article 7 No punishment without law

1 No one shall be held guilty of any criminal offence on account of any act or omission which did not constitute a criminal offence under national or international law at the time when it was committed. Nor shall a heavier penalty be imposed than the one that was applicable at the time the criminal offence was committed.

2 This Article shall not prejudice the trial and punishment of any person for any act or omission which, at the time when it was committed, was criminal according to the general principles of law recognised by civilised nations.

This means that:

The right to no punishment without law is absolute. This means that it cannot be restricted in any way.

So to answer your question: if my government would do what you suggested, it would be time to bring out the pitchforks.

Unfortunately U.K. law does not apply to USA. It is a nice law though.

Unfortunately here in the USA we shit all over that idea.
1)Read on how USA altered time served rules after the fact.
2)Read how USA alter pedophile rules after the fact.

To give you an example of how fucked the USA is we could charge Boris (ex PM) for US tax evasion anytime we want.

3)Hard to believe but true. look it up

Not fud for 1),2),3)

 just facts

[Don Pedro Dinero]

Unfortunately U.K. law does not apply to USA. It is a nice law though.

Unfortunately here in the USA we shit all over that idea.
Read on how USA altered time served rules after the fact.
Read how USA alter pedophile rules after the fact.

He just quoted the universal declaration of human rights, it's not a UK law, it's a general principle of universal law.

If what you say is true, I knew the USA was rubbish at some things, but this would take the biscuit. I imagine you have an exaggerated interpretation of the issue, because to be able to apply that without limit is not conceivable in a modern democracy.

Better if you provide links btw, I've just searched and I just see an amalgam of scattered information.

[LoyceV]

just facts

It would be nice if you include a link.

[philipma1957]

just facts

It would be nice if you include a link.

Busy but will do

[ibminer]

^ Sounds like Phillip may be referring to the reduction of sentences for illegal crimes committed, which is a much different thing then going back and making something that was legal suddenly illegal at a previous point in time and issuing a sentence, and/or imposing stricter sentences at a later point in the future, these I don't believe have ever been done in the US.

[philipma1957]

^ Sounds like Phillip may be referring to the reduction of sentences for illegal crimes committed, which is a much different thing then going back and making something that was legal suddenly illegal at a previous point in time and issuing a sentence, and/or imposing stricter sentences at a later point in the future, these I don't believe have ever been done in the US.

Megan's law was able to punish all prior pedophiles if they were still in prison.


https://www.thoughtco.com/history-of-megans-law-973197

"In 1996, the U.S. Congress passed Megan's Law as an amendment to the Jacob Wetterling Crimes Against Children's Act. It required every state to have a sex offender registry and a notification system for the public when a sex offender is released into their community. It also required that repeat sex offenders receive a sentence of life in prison."

those lists in effect were added punishment to people serving time.

[ibminer]

It also required that repeat sex offenders receive a sentence of life in prison.

Megan's law:
https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/megan%27s_law
https://www.law.cornell.edu/rio/citation/Pub._L._104-145

I don't see it saying anything about the requirement of a life sentence?

If you are saying a public sex offender registry is a "punishment" equivalent to incarceration (you said "time served" was altered - FUD! lol), or even something like community service, then we may have to agree to disagree.. as I wouldn't see a public registry like this in the same way I'd see a sentence adjustment that effects the freedom of an individual or their criminal status.

Megan's law was able to punish all prior pedophiles if they were still in prison.

You call it a punishment, but maybe it's just a sincere effort to protect the public and discourage repeat sex offenders. *shrug*

So I guess the best we could ever expect is some sort of public registry of bitcoiners using mixers if governments could decipher who all of them were?.. of course, we'd have to assume the public will care about this as much as they do the sexual assault of minors for it to ever happen. 

[ChipMixer]

I still say if you lost funds on FTX, you should thank Chipmixer advertisers for supporting the theft and attempted laundering of funds owed to you.

Owner and CTO - not guilty.
Alameda who borrowed and gambled with funds - not guilty.
All projects funded with user funds never to return - not guilty.
Hacker from story invented weeks after FTX bankrupted - not guilty.
Altcoins and Defi that moved funds - not guilty.
Exchanges that exchanged altcoins to bitcoin - not guilty.
ChipMixer (also called part of top govs) - guilty.

Out of all people on this list only ChipMixer did not get % of those funds.

[n0nce]

Did you lose money on FTX? Thank a Chipmixer advertiser today for supporting the laundering of your funds for the hacker.

Or take responsibility and stop using centralized exchanges.
Bitcoin exists for over a decade. A decade of 'not your keys, not your coins'. A decade of encouraging P2P, a decade of exchange hacks, exit scams, ponzi schemes.

But sure; privacy solutions are the issue.

Bitcoin's very essence is giving you the ability of taking responsibility of your own funds and securing them however you want. If you're too lazy for self-custody and P2P exchanging, after all the precedents of exchange hacks, you can't seriously point your finger at mixers or other privacy tools.

Look at this beauty.

Some people hold their crypto assets on exchanges, it is very dangerous, previously many exchanges have been hacked.
I advise You should keep your crypto assets in your personal wallet because the exchange is not safe.


Hacked Exchanges

Name	Date	Loss
_______________________________________________________________________________	______________	________________________
Kucoin Exchange	Sep 2020	$150 million worth of Bitcoin, and some other tokens
Eterbase Exchange	Sep 2020	$5.4 million worth of Eth, Xtz, BTC, ALGO, Xrp, Trx
Altsbit Exchange	Feb 2020	6,929 BTC, 23,210 ETH, 3,924,082 ARRR, 414,154 VRSC & 1,066 KMD
Upbit Exchange	Nov 2019	342,000 ETH
VinDAX Exchange	Nov 2019	$500,000 Worth of Cryptocurrency
Bitpoint Exchange	Jul 2019	1,225 BTC, 11,169 ETH, 1,985 BCH, 5,108 LTC & over 28 million XRP
Bitrue Exchange	Jun 2019	9.3 Million XRP & 2.5 Million ADA
GateHub Exchange	Jun 2019	23,200,000 XRP
Binance Exchange	May 2019	7,000 BTC
Bithumb Exchange	Mar 2019	3 Million EOS & 20 Million XRP
DragonEx Exchange	Mar 2019	$7,000,000
CoinBene Exchange	Mar 2019	Unknown
Coinbin Exchange	Feb 2019	Unknown
Coinmama Exchange	Feb 2019	No
Cryptopia Exchange	Jan 2019	1,675 ETH
QuadrigaCX Exchange	Dec 2019	26,350 BTC
MapleChange Exchange	Oct 2019	913 BTC
Zaif Exchange	Sep 2018	5,966 BTC
Bithumb Exchange	Jun 2018	$31 Million Worth of XRP
Taylor Exchange	May 2018	2,578 ETH
Bancor Exchange	Jul 2018	$12M in ETH
CoinSecure Exchange	April 2018	438 BTC
Bitgrail Exchange	Feb 2018	17,000,000 NANO
Coincheck Exchange	Jan 2018	523,000,000 NEM
Youbit Exchange	Dec 2017	Unknown
OKEX Exchange	Aug 2017	$3,000,000
EtherDelta Exchange	Apr 2017	$266,000
Bithumb Exchange	Jul 2017	$7 Million Worth of BTC & ETH
Yapizon (Youbit) Exchange	Apr 2017	3,800 BTC
Bitfinex Exchange	Aug 2016	120,000 BTC
GateCoin Exchange	May 2016	250 BTC & 185,000 ETH
ShapeShift Exchange	Apr 2016	$230,000 Worth of Crypto
BTER Exchange	Feb 2015	7,170 BTC
Bitstamp Exchange	Jan 2015	19,000 BTC
LocalBitcoins Exchange	Jan 2015	17 BTC
796 Exchange	Jan 2015	1,000 BTC
MintPal Exchange	Oct 2014	3,700 BTC
Cryptsy Exchange	Jul 2014	13,000 BTC & 300,000 LTC
MintPal Exchange	Jul 2014	8 Million VRC
Mt.Gox Exchange	Mar 2014	850,000 BTC
Poloniex Exchange	Mar 2014	97 BTC
BitCash Exchange	Nov 2013	484 BTC
PicoStocks Exchange	Nov 2013	$6,000,000
Vicurex Exchange	May 2013	1,454 BTC
BitFloor Exchange	Sep 2012	24,000 BTC
Bitcoinica Exchange	May 2012	18,457 BTC
Mt.Gox Exchange	Jun 2011	2,643 BTC
Bitcoin7 Exchange	Oct 2011	11,000 BTC

[nutildah]

I can send 1.024 BTC to ChipMixer, have the chips spent after a few hours, and have them sent to Coinbase right after a while. Does this qualify as proper usage to you?

I wouldn't deem any usage of it as "proper." As a matter of fact I strongly recommend staying away from ChipMixer altogether.

All I'm saying is that we don't read about ChipMixer often, and when we do it's usually due to hackers' fault. Here's a case of $40 million stolen from Binance, which as far as I'm concerned remain still unresolved: https://cryptocurrencynews.com/chipmixer-binance-hack-btc-laundering/. I'm not implying that it can't be a honeypot, I'm just saying that your argument works in the opposite direction.

You've posited a series of conditions in which you are always going to be right regardless of what happens. This doesn't change the fact that it is possible to trace coins moved through ChipMixer, and that thieves & hackers are ChipMixer's biggest clients.

https://slowmist.medium.com/investigation-of-aml-instances-around-blockchain-technology-for-the-first-half-of-2022-faff3e4bd6e

[BlackHatCoiner]

I wouldn't deem any usage of it as "proper." As a matter of fact I strongly recommend staying away from ChipMixer altogether.

Do you strongly recommend staying away from privacy protection measures as well? You know. To not get involved into criminal activity?

You've posited a series of conditions in which you are always going to be right regardless of what happens.

I only said that some hackers do more proper usage than others, and don't get caught. If ChipMixer was a honeypot, then greater hackers (like the Binance ones) would have been put behind the bars. That's all I said.

Hell, do I need to remind you that two weirdos kept billions worth of stolen bitcoin in a cloud this year? Lol. Not all know to use bitcoin properly.

[philipma1957]

It also required that repeat sex offenders receive a sentence of life in prison.

Megan's law:
https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/megan%27s_law
https://www.law.cornell.edu/rio/citation/Pub._L._104-145

I don't see it saying anything about the requirement of a life sentence?

If you are saying a public sex offender registry is a "punishment" equivalent to incarceration (you said "time served" was altered - FUD! lol), or even something like community service, then we may have to agree to disagree.. as I wouldn't see a public registry like this in the same way I'd see a sentence adjustment that effects the freedom of an individual or their criminal status.

Megan's law was able to punish all prior pedophiles if they were still in prison.

You call it a punishment, but maybe it's just a sincere effort to protect the public and discourage repeat sex offenders. *shrug*

So I guess the best we could ever expect is some sort of public registry of bitcoiners using mixers if governments could decipher who all of them were?.. of course, we'd have to assume the public will care about this as much as they do the sexual assault of minors for it to ever happen.  

right you are in 1993 you are 18 the girl is 17 you are in New York been with the girl 2 years. cross the border to nj while driving over the George Washington Bridge she was giving you a BJ as soon as the car goes into NJ you become guilty of statutory rape and you violate the Mann act a federal law a racist NJ trooper pull you over and now you a black teenager are facing 5-10 for starry rape and 20 for Mann act violation total of 35-30.

You cut a deal and plead to forciple touching. and get 2 years in prison. While in Jail NJ passes Megans law.
YOU are put on a sex registry for 10 years.  The feds pass the federal law in 1996 and you go on a national list until 2004,

That was possible to do in 1993.

Many conditions were flat out bs due to crazy ass laws due to 50 states with 50 sets of laws plus federal laws.

In the US many people got added punishedment once convicted and Meagans law was passed after.

Those lists cost jobs and parole violations.

And many people had their expected sentences lengthen in NY when the time served vs sentenced given was altered.

Which is a joke when you are being charged with 10 possible years or 20 years but if you cop a plea you get 5. 40% served and off with good behavior.

Most will cop the plea thinking I will do 2 rather than a moron jury giving me 20.

Then a year in they change the rules and say you have to do 80% not 40% so your 2 years in prison is now 4 years.

Look I know the discussion is chipmixer not extended punishments after the fact. I can simply say if you are in the USA and you do chipmaker you paint a target on your back.

Now for Meagans law the crossover people won't happen anymore as the law is in effect everywhere. But if you got charged and convicted right before the law went into effect you got added punishment.
If you were in New York in 1990's got convicted and sentenced thinking 40% or the sentence and out it was turned into 80%

and many in New York were overcharged so that they would plea bargain lesser sentences. Then the expected time was doubled.
I know a person that shot some one the head surely attempted murder. The victim survived the shooter plead to assault with a deadly weapon he got 10 years on the plea bargain thinking he would do 4 of the 10. If he lost the attempted murder he would have got 20 years. While in Osining prison the 40% rule was altered to 80% he served 8 years. Fact not FUD

Yeah you will say he shot someone in the head he deserved it. I say yeah you are right. Even though I am his step brother and he was pretty decent guy. But many others were in prison on lesser crimes 5 years for weed sales plead guilty thinking 2 years in jail became 4 years. Look it up not fun real.

So a government that does this routinely can do it with chipmixer.

Look if you are a USA citizen and you leave the country you get a job US law says you have to file a tax return.

Your last prime minister Boris Johnson never filed and never denounced his US citizenship ant time he came to the USA the Feds could pick him up for tax evasion that's how fucked up USA law is. So if you are in the USA and a citizen of it. Using chipmixer they may never do a thing to you. They never bother Boris Johnson so yeah take a shot and hope they don't do a thing to you.

[ibminer]

right you are in 1993 you are 18 the girl is 17 you are in New York been with the girl 2 years. cross the border to nj while driving over the George Washington Bridge she was giving you a BJ as soon as the car goes into NJ you become guilty of statutory rape and you violate the Mann act a federal law a racist NJ trooper pull you over and now you a black teenager are facing 5-10 for starry rape and 20 for Mann act violation total of 35-30.

I hear what you're saying but that's a pretty unique story.. there are many more situations of sexual assault then the story you describe here, and I'm not really comfortable describing them. I'd guess a story like this is nowhere near the majority of effected criminals.

Look I know the discussion is chipmixer not extended punishments after the fact. I can simply say if you are in the USA and you do chipmaker you paint a target on your back.

Well with this line of thinking, we've had a target on our back ever since we registered an account here.. even simply using Tor would paint a target on you because it is also used by plenty of criminals, and there are plenty of Tor nodes run by governments. This forum also has criminals and you're here supporting it... but you don't feel comfortable using a mixer?

All I'm saying is just because someone uses a service for a bad purpose, it doesn't mean the service itself is bad. There are plenty of legit services all over the world being manipulated by criminals, shutting them all down isn't the answer.

[krishnaverma]

There are more chances of hell freezing over in comparison to forum getting a takedown notice for advertising chip mixer platform.

[n0nce]

You've posited a series of conditions in which you are always going to be right regardless of what happens. This doesn't change the fact that it is possible to trace coins moved through ChipMixer, and that thieves & hackers are ChipMixer's biggest clients.

That's like saying 'criminals drink coffee in the morning', though isn't it?
Another way to put it: if ChipMixer is suitable for cutting the trace of stolen funds, it means it works, right? That's all that counts for me, whether they did steal those funds or whatever, is none of my business.

I'd also reiterate that making money better traceable is not required to catch criminals. In the fiat world, authorities almost never trace cash serial numbers for criminal investigations, yet still they can get thieves behind bars. There are so many so much better ways to do it than tracing the money, which don't interfere with honest users' privacy.

[NotATether]

There are more chances of hell freezing over in comparison to forum getting a takedown notice for advertising chip mixer platform.

I find it mildly amusing that CSW's iron fist on this forum has shrunk so much by comparison, to the point where an arbitrary mixer is now considered more of a threat to the forum's operations than him. That is despite hosting the Bitcoin Whitepaper and committing every kind of defamation against him possible 

Ie. We're all good.

[dkbit98]

I wouldn't deem any usage of it as "proper." As a matter of fact I strongly recommend staying away from ChipMixer altogether.

And we should all join your shitcoin projects right?  
If I remember correctly you got accused of doing some illegal things before, that means we should all avoid you and anything related with you, right?
You and OGN should take each other hands and sing kumbaya song, because you seem to be plying for the same team.

I'd also reiterate that making money better traceable is not required to catch criminals. In the fiat world, authorities almost never trace cash serial numbers for criminal investigations, yet still they can get thieves behind bars. There are so many so much better ways to do it than tracing the money, which don't interfere with honest users' privacy.

Yeah, but that is why they are creating CBDC to track everything and I think some guys here will love this modern day digital slavery system.
Twisted minds of some people is thinking like this: Let's make privacy illegal and there will be no more criminal...

[OgNasty]

How would you feel if your governement makes a no mixer law and backdates it so that you have to explain your involvement as an advertisement service for them? and user of their service as you just admitted to.

If your government punishes you for something that wasn't illegal at the time, you have much bigger things to worry about. It would be a Human Rights violation:

Article 7 No punishment without law

1 No one shall be held guilty of any criminal offence on account of any act or omission which did not constitute a criminal offence under national or international law at the time when it was committed. Nor shall a heavier penalty be imposed than the one that was applicable at the time the criminal offence was committed.

2 This Article shall not prejudice the trial and punishment of any person for any act or omission which, at the time when it was committed, was criminal according to the general principles of law recognised by civilised nations.

This means that:

The right to no punishment without law is absolute. This means that it cannot be restricted in any way.

So to answer your question: if my government would do what you suggested, it would be time to bring out the pitchforks.

Unfortunately U.K. law does not apply to USA. It is a nice law though.

Unfortunately here in the USA we shit all over that idea.
1)Read on how USA altered time served rules after the fact.
2)Read how USA alter pedophile rules after the fact.

To give you an example of how fucked the USA is we could charge Boris (ex PM) for US tax evasion anytime we want.

3)Hard to believe but true. look it up

Not fud for 1),2),3)

 just facts

I agree with Phil. If the government wasn’t planning to backpunish people for breaking laws then why on earth is the NSA building massive datacenters and collecting unbelievable amounts of data on everyone to store forever? You really think at some point they won’t have AI going through that to try and bleed people dry in order to push their agenda?

The blockchain can be good or it can be used for evil. Chipmixer won’t save you from it being used for evil.
https://twitter.com/zachxbt/status/1597605409883566080

[n0nce]

I agree with Phil. If the government wasn’t planning to backpunish people for breaking laws then why on earth is the NSA building massive datacenters and collecting unbelievable amounts of data on everyone to store forever? You really think at some point they won’t have AI going through that to try and bleed people dry in order to push their agenda?

Laws are different everywhere; as far as I know, in most places you can (and should) be punished for something that was illegal when you did it, even if this fact is only discovered later.
'Back punishing' in the sense of punishing someone for something that at the time was permitted, is at least morally, really fucked up. Because how could you have 'been a law-abiding citizen' without a time machine, then?