Congratulation, Bitcoin has reached 500 GB size hard disk data

[LoyceV]

All of my Hard Disks have failed after about two to three years.  As in, they became extremely slow up to a point where they were practically unusable.

Normal hard disks don't get slower, they either work or they break (or start showing bad sectors).
It sounds like you too fell victim to SMR disks. It's a nasty trick hdd manufacturers pulled (without informing the buyer), and creates to a disk that gets very, very slow after you've used it for a while.
TL;DR: don't buy SMR disks.

[1715161680]

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[franky1]

All of my Hard Disks have failed after about two to three years.  As in, they became extremely slow up to a point where they were practically unusable.

Normal hard disks don't get slower, they either work or they break (or start showing bad sectors).

old (platter) hard drives do degrade and slow down. you can normally tell because you can hear the bearings in the spindle of the platters or the actuator arms of the 'head' (reader/writer) get more clunky/noisy

when hard drives get full you hear it the most. because they have to search data across many different  sectors(locations on the platters)

Pros and Cons of Bitcoin Node types (Full node and Prune node)

On another hand, a newbie or a beginner does not have to start with a full node or Bitcoin Core.

you are correct there is no physics NEED to be full node just to make a transaction and use bitcoin.
however it needs to made clear the different features that can be opted in or out of being used . and knowing the differences.. rather than some that just pretend pruning =full where they want everyone to prune to cause centralisation.

there is nothing wrong with choice.. but having informed choice is what should be done

trying to get core to have prune mode set by default. is not really a good thing. yes give the option to use prune. but not try to push to make it the default, where then majority of nodes would then  be pruning thus not having a distributed blockchain

i laugh when i see the same dozen people recite the same outdated, debunked scripts that try to push for:
high tx fee's as being ok/normal/to be expected "just pay more"
less utility on bitcoin via pushing users to use altnets.
trying to say bitcoin is unfit due to 1990-2007 tech.

and all doing so just to promote their altnet as the bitcoin 2.0

[countryfree]

10 years from now, we will laugh about how small the blockchain was in 2022...

[BlackHatCoiner]

(either full node or prune node)

Just to avoid confusion: a pruned node is a full node.

however it needs to made clear the different features that can be opted in or out of being used . and knowing the differences.. rather than some that just pretend pruning =full where they want everyone to prune to cause centralisation.

Pruning is full with the exception that you dump blocks later on. Full doesn't stand for full blockchain, but for full features; so no centralization. There will always be nodes willing to store the entire chain (mainly merchants), so we won't ever be left without it.

[LoyceV]

(either full node or prune node)

Just to avoid confusion: a pruned node is a full node.

Now I'm confused: my definition of a full node was Bitcoin Core including a fully downloaded, stored and verified blockchain. I checked the first 4 definitions on Google, and it's a 50-50 tie between whether or not pruned nodes are included.

[BlackHatCoiner]

Now I'm confused: my definition of a full node was Bitcoin Core including a fully downloaded, stored and verified blockchain. I checked the first 4 definitions on Google, and it's a 50-50 tie between whether or not pruned nodes are included.

From a quick search:

A full node is a program that fully validates transactions and blocks. Almost all full nodes also help the network by accepting transactions and blocks from other full nodes, validating those transactions and blocks, and then relaying them to further full nodes.

Any computer that connects to the Bitcoin network is called a node. Nodes that fully verify all of the rules of Bitcoin are called full nodes.

A Bitcoin full node is software that allows businesses and advanced users to validate transactions and blocks on the blockchain of their choice. Running a full node is a read-only access to the blockchain. It does not give you power over the network, simply the ability to monitor it. For the majority of end-users, full nodes aren't required to run. Setting up a full node is something that power-users and businesses might want to consider running to verify their own transactions. The following software can be used to interact with the version of Bitcoin of your choice.

Which site says that full node requires store of the entire chain?

[franky1]

(either full node or prune node)

Just to avoid confusion: a pruned node is a full node.

Now I'm confused: my definition of a full node was Bitcoin Core including a fully downloaded, stored and verified blockchain. I checked the first 4 definitions on Google, and it's a 50-50 tie between whether or not pruned nodes are included.

the term full node describes full verification and archive of full blockchain
why: because pruning did not exist in the days of the term being used. the only option was full verification and archival

pruning came later which involve changing the network service flags of what options the node is using. the network service flags showing
[NODE_NETWORK_LIMITED] but not[NODE_NETWORK] means its pruning

same as nodes pre segwit running now(pre 0.12.2).
they dont have [NODE_WITNESS]
 they do not relay segwit tx nor verify segwit transact witness. they have a stripped down version of the blockchain missing data so they do not even act as IBD seeds for the network. they have by core buzzwordatory been called "downstream" nodes in the same grouping as what lite wallets sit at the outer circle/edge of the network

they are not full node. even though many pretend that "backward compatibility means older nodes are still full nodes because they blind default "is valid" "(facepalm) but they accept blocks with out checking the witness is signing for the tx data thus they are not fully verifying or storing or relaying such segwit blocks/tx

[LoyceV]

Which site says that full node requires store of the entire chain?

Numbers 1 and 4 (for me) on Google:

A blockchain node that stores the blockchain data, passes along the data to other nodes, and ensures that newly added blocks are valid and authentic.

Full nodes are internet-connected computers that store a complete copy of the blockchain within a network. Full nodes also verify that the blockchain is valid and consensus rules are enforced.

[Sarah Azhari]

So, after i read all posts and a bit understood, I'm prepared to buy NVME M.2 SATA (can be 1-10 GB/s write and read) and prepared that SSD as an external hard disk to run the bitcoin core outside my laptop, because I have an old laptop that hasn't slot for that SSD. Is it's oke for that?, (thinkpad. core i5 and I want to upgrade ram also to 16 GB).  I want buy Msata SSD before, but after research it's not best for (write and read - 500MB/s)

So it's oke 1 terabyte SSD for the next 10 years?. my budget still not enough to buy more byte.

[franky1]

So, after i read all posts and a bit understood, I'm prepared to buy NVME M.2 SATA (can be 1-10 GB/s write and read) and prepared that SSD as an external hard disk to run the bitcoin core outside my laptop, because I have an old laptop that hasn't slot for that SSD. Is it's oke for that?, (thinkpad. core i5 and I want to upgrade ram also to 16 GB).  I want buy Msata SSD before, but after research it's not best for (write and read - 500MB/s)

So it's oke 1 terabyte SSD for the next 10 years?. my budget still not enough to buy more byte.

current blocks are about 1.4mb and there are 52,500 blocks a year average. so ~74gb a year =740gb a decade
meaning yea a 1tb could do that job based on current stats..

however should devs finally remove the cludgy bad math miscount code
it could easily become 4mb blocks of proper legacy utility meaning ~210gb a year which is if you want a PC to last 4+years, fine. but 10 years presuming they will finally shift the goal post by removing the cludgy math code legacy limit within the next decade, its to be a 2.5TB+ hard drive

there is not much difference between a 1tb vs 4tb in price its not like the price is 4x. so better off on the long run to have a 4TB hard drive

[Sarah Azhari]

however should devs finally remove the cludgy bad math miscount code
it could easily become 4mb blocks of proper legacy utility meaning ~210gb a year which is if you want a PC to last 4+years, fine. but 10 years presuming they will finally shift the goal post by removing the cludgy math code legacy limit within the next decade, its to be a 2.5TB+ hard drive

there is not much difference between a 1tb vs 4tb in price its not like the price is 4x. so better off on the long run to have a 4TB hard drive

Maybe for the next 2 or 3 years the price of 4tb NVME M.2 SATA could be low from current price, and I have to move to new 4 TB .
So, is okay If I just copy from the old to the new SSD?, is that affect when rewrite a new blockchain?, Because Ive experienced copied from old to new disk, I have much time to wait just sycn header wallet and chain.

And, I still doubt if 1 TB could be enough for the next 2 years because if there is an increase in the new miner and new bitcoin transactions, could be not as our expected in only 1 year we got an additional 500 GB from now.

[franky1]

at the moment there is a hard limit of 4mb.
there is a cludgy limit that keeps data throttled down at about a 1.4mb average, keeping tx count allowance low

there are also rules for ~105,000 blocks in 2 years

so simple math 105k blocks times 1.4 =~150gb for 2 year (650gb total)
or upto 420gb a year using the uncludgy max 4mb rule (920gb total)

chances of devs suddenly raising the 4mb block limit above 4mb is pfft. seems like something not on their roadmap this year or next. so presume we are stuck with the restraints of the 4mb limit. where they "may" remove the cludge to atleast get to 4mb of data per block instead of throttled down at a average of 1.4mb.

and most would prefer the cludgy limit to be taken away to then actually allow more utility of the 4mb for actual tx count increase anyway
and progress from there in a few years after that

so for 2 years guess around the 650gb total for full archival at current rate-920gb for full archival if cludgy code removed to full utilise 4mb block limit

[larry_vw_1955]

If there will be some sort of revolution in this field and average people would own drives with hundreds of terrabytes,

there's a revolution going on right now actually. 22 TB hard drives. problem is, it is out of reach of "average people" unless they're willing to pay $600.
https://www.westerndigital.com/products/internal-drives/wd-gold-sata-hdd#WD221KRYZ

it will probably stay like that too. they'll stop making them at some point but they won't just start lowering the prices too much.

[LoyceV]

I'm prepared to buy NVME M.2 SATA (can be 1-10 GB/s write and read) and prepared that SSD as an external hard disk to run the bitcoin core outside my laptop

The NVMe is very fast, but won't be able to use that performance if it's connected through USB. NVMe is slightly more expensive than SSD, and you won't use that speed at all in the many years you're using it after the IBD (initial block download).
So here's what I would do: can you replace the storage inside your laptop for a bigger one? If your laptop uses an HDD now, it will become much more responsive if you replace it for a (sufficiently large) SSD. And fit your old HDD in a USB case for other uses. You'll need to clone or reinstall your OS if you do that.

because I have an old laptop that hasn't slot for that SSD.

So replace the HDD It's the best upgrade you can do for old computers (and adding RAM helps too of course). Any chance your laptop has a build-in DVD player? If so, you can fit more storage in it's place.

I want buy Msata SSD before, but after research it's not best for (write and read - 500MB/s)

You won't need more than that for downloading the blockchain. Chances are your current hard drive reads much less than that, but more importantly, the access time of a HDD is much, much worse than SSD.

So it's oke 1 terabyte SSD for the next 10 years?. my budget still not enough to buy more byte.

I wouldn't plan 10 years ahead for an old laptop In my experience, I tend to fill up all storage no matter how much space I have.

And, I still doubt if 1 TB could be enough for the next 2 years because if there is an increase in the new miner and new bitcoin transactions, could be not as our expected in only 1 year we got an additional 500 GB from now.

More miners lead to a higher difficulty, not more blocks. I see no reason for the blockchain to grow more than ~100GB per year in the coming years.

[Kakmakr]

The thing is...... technological advances in storage and bandwidth are growing faster than what the Blockchain are growing.... so it's not a big issue. If storage are a problem.... then run a pruned node, but hard drives are so cheap these days, you can simply buy a small 2tb external hard drive and be good for a couple of years to come. 

This is only an issue... for the people who wants to make this an issue. (like the Bitcoin haters and Bitcoin's competition) 

[hZti]

Is there actually a reason that you need or want the full blockchain on your computer? I mean if you think it is necessary then do it, but if you have to buy a new hard drive maybe it is not really worth it just to have the blockchain. You can just use a pruned wallet.

Far as I know, a pruned node is helpful if you really want to make disk space economy but does not help you much if you want to run your own Block Explorer or gather all sorts of information from the Bitcoin Blockchain.  While both are still verified and safe, a Full Node is like the complete version of the Blockchain.  You have it all right on your computer and you can make use of it if necessary.

I do not remember honestly but I think you can not use a pruned node to import a new wallet and sync it up.  I think you will need to go through the entire Blockchain again for that.

Moreover.  You are going to help the Bitcoin network by running a Full Node.  You will gather block information, but you will also provide others yours.  This is how the Decentralized Peer to Peer thingy works.

-
Regards,
PrivacyG

This is all true, I just wanted to clarify to the OP that he does not really need the additional disk space if he can't afford it. To me it seemed like he was a little bit skeptical if it is worth it to invest into a new hard drive, and if you hesitate to buy a 20 USD hard drive than you should probably use your money elsewhere than to support the bitcoin network with a node.

[DaveF]

there is not much difference between a 1tb vs 4tb in price its not like the price is 4x. so better off on the long run to have a 4TB hard drive

It depends if you are looking for new or used and where you are located.
If you know people in tech and such they are (including myself) giving away used 1TB drives a lot of the time. They have just about 0 residual value on the secondary market here in the US. 2 TB are not far behind if they have high hours, low hour drives are usually 'pizza' money.

If there will be some sort of revolution in this field and average people would own drives with hundreds of terrabytes,

there's a revolution going on right now actually. 22 TB hard drives. problem is, it is out of reach of "average people" unless they're willing to pay $600.
https://www.westerndigital.com/products/internal-drives/wd-gold-sata-hdd#WD221KRYZ

it will probably stay like that too. they'll stop making them at some point but they won't just start lowering the prices too much.

You really don't need a WD gold for this, as I posed above I have ironwolfs running 2 bitcoin nodes and a ETH node and they are not even noticing the load once the IBDs are done.

A Seagate Ironwolf 12TB 7200RPM, which although being sold as a NAS drive does work very well for blockchain storage, is under $249
Use anything you want for your boot / OS drive and stick the blockchain on there and you are good till just about the end of time.

All of my Hard Disks have failed after about two to three years.  As in, they became extremely slow up to a point where they were practically unusable.  HDD's are cheap but they also have a short life span.  Is this not a problem you encounter?  For me this is why I rather choose an SSD instead.  Although more expensive, that one I can truly say could last you possibly forever.  I at least never had an issue with any of mine.

SSDs have a finite lifespan, the bits can only flip a certain number of times before they stop working.
I have had both SSDs and spinning drives die. A lot also depends on the environment, a spinning drive in a sever in a data center with proper cooling and power with very few on - off cycles is probably going to last far longer then an SSD in your kids laptop.

Either way important data should be mirrored anyway.

-Dave

[larry_vw_1955]

I'm prepared to buy NVME M.2 SATA (can be 1-10 GB/s write and read) and prepared that SSD as an external hard disk to run the bitcoin core outside my laptop

I think that's a waste of money. The NVMe is very fast, but won't be able to use that performance if it's connected through USB.

theoretically, i read you can transfer up to 2GB/sec through usb via nvme. so it's not exactly slow. but yeah you have to have usb 3.2.

NVMe is more expensive than SSD,

that statement makes no sense. unless by SSD you mean "SATA SSD" but even then you're completely wrong. You can get 2TB NVMe SSDs for the same price you get ones in the SATA form factor. external SSDs if anything seem to be at a price premium to every other form factor so what you're doing is paying for the novelty and convenience of portability but nothing more.

SSDs have a finite lifespan, the bits can only flip a certain number of times before they stop working.

yeah but if you go by TBW rating, your computer will be obselete before any of that becomes an issue.

I have had both SSDs and spinning drives die. A lot also depends on the environment, a spinning drive in a sever in a data center with proper cooling and power with very few on - off cycles is probably going to last far longer then an SSD in your kids laptop.

far longer? any data to back that up?

[Sarah Azhari]

can you replace the storage inside your laptop for a bigger one? If your laptop uses an HDD now, it will become much more responsive if you replace it for a (sufficiently large) SSD. And fit your old HDD in a USB case for other uses. You'll need to clone or reinstall your OS if you do that.

Yes, I research and found can be replace with SSD SATA 3, 2.5". I just don't know how to clone it, can I clone it outside? (use that SSD as external first than clone it)?

So replace the HDD It's the best upgrade you can do for old computers (and adding RAM helps too of course). Any chance your laptop has a build-in DVD player? If so, you can fit more storage in it's place.

My laptop don't have DVD so I can't replace with Caddy HDD, about ram, how much memori bitcoin core need when running downloading blockchain?.

Maybe hard when have only 4gb ram, I have 2 tb HDD, then, I will upgrade RAM only when better than replace the HDD, because that many cost for that.

[yazher]

Ideally, put at least chainstate on SSD, and use 4096 MB dbcache. With those settings, any modern computer should be able to sync the blockchain within a day. Assuming your internet connection can handle it.
1TB is enough for many years to come.

This is the simplest answer because you can save money and it guarantees you to use it for a long time because in the future hard disks will become cheap and when you need more space, you can buy them later. This is expected since there will be more users in the upcoming days and transactions are mostly multiplied and Bitcoin Core's data will also expand. This is also a good thing because the more people will come, the more we are guaranteed to last longer because there will be more liquidation, and bitcoins as assets will be more recognized in the future.