What would be an ideal KYC solution?

[348Judah]

In my opinion, I do believe KYC has been rather efficient in delivering on its service to these sites that patronize them. Other than KYC, unless one is thinking full biometrics capturing, I don't see more than a few adjustments to what KYC stands to offer right now,

When we talk about KYC it has to be identified on which approach we are addressing this, why should an organization or a gambling website needs the KYC informations if not to track the users, i believe that every information about a gambler will always be used against him in the future and also KYC is not the solution to avoiding abuses like scams and hacking from fraudulent people over a casino, kyc should be a thing of choice that a gambler can choose to go by or avoid the process entirely.

[Ghostnipple]

Text to image generation software using deep machine learning,
can already generate KYC images and ID documentation that can pass KYC acceptance levels.

The issue for KYC is being able to determine if there is a real person at the other side of the process.

[Silberman]

Text to image generation software using deep machine learning,
can already generate KYC images and ID documentation that can pass KYC acceptance levels.

The issue for KYC is being able to determine if there is a real person at the other side of the process.

This is not really a solution, to begin with this is most likely illegal, then you are also taking a massive risk as the casino could ask for more documentation and you will have no way to produce it as all of it was false, and finally if at some point this became popular among some gamblers then casinos will begin to ask for videos of the gamblers holding their documents or even ask to make a video call with you, defeating the whole purpose of doing this.

[Jemzx00]

Text to image generation software using deep machine learning,
can already generate KYC images and ID documentation that can pass KYC acceptance levels.

The issue for KYC is being able to determine if there is a real person at the other side of the process.

This is not really a solution, to begin with this is most likely illegal, then you are also taking a massive risk as the casino could ask for more documentation and you will have no way to produce it as all of it was false, and finally if at some point this became popular among some gamblers then casinos will begin to ask for videos of the gamblers holding their documents or even ask to make a video call with you, defeating the whole purpose of doing this.

That's actually a crime especially if there is someone to the generated ID made. It's identity theft and once caught, you might get some jail time. Also, other than being in jail, you will have no way of obtaining your funds as those will be confiscated and be locked out from you.
And, yes, if this becomes a thing, more and more platforms would lean more on having a better and stricter KYC process which would involve more documentation and possibly your appearance during KYC process.

[Ghostnipple]

Text to image generation software using deep machine learning,
can already generate KYC images and ID documentation that can pass KYC acceptance levels.

The issue for KYC is being able to determine if there is a real person at the other side of the process.

This is not really a solution, to begin with this is most likely illegal, then you are also taking a massive risk as the casino could ask for more documentation and you will have no way to produce it as all of it was false, and finally if at some point this became popular among some gamblers then casinos will begin to ask for videos of the gamblers holding their documents or even ask to make a video call with you, defeating the whole purpose of doing this.

Where there is no law then there is no law broken and therefore no crime.

[Wind_FURY]

Ser, relax. Hahaha.

I wasn't educating you about DirectBet, I was only showing you what it was on-chain when you posted that "you couldn't read somewhere in their site that they're an on-chain casino". What site did you visit? The real DirectBet has been offline, and their topic in the forum has been locked.

I was also merely suggesting that having the "ideal KYC solution" could also be "fixed" through technical implementation, like DirectBet's on-chain solution.

no worries, I am relax and I am just pointing the fact about the discussion. No need to tell me to relax as I am relax and I am only sharing my thoughts and opinion to you. One more thing, you don't have to call me or address me as ser or sir. After all, we have the freedom of speech in this forum unlike the other platform where it is moderated and some words are not allowed. To be precise, I didn't visit directbet website or their ann thread as I am not interested in directbet at all.

I thought you said that, "you couldn't read somewhere in their site that they're an on-chain casino", https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5425027.msg61401864#msg61401864

I probably misunderstood?

As learners of Bitcoin as a protocol and as users of cryptocurrencies, plebs like you and me who have posted our own opinions in the topic should research and learn more about DirectBet, and how it's a good model for an ideal KYC solution. It could also be one of the best illustrations in how to utilize the Bitcoin blockchain, and how to build services that have an actual on-chain usage that's censorship-resistant and non-custodial.

[maydna]

Where there is no law then there is no law broken and therefore no crime.

That's not quite right because if there are no laws, humans can act arbitrarily, and there is a disorder in all fields. With laws, the government can regulate people, but unfortunately, some people still try to break them or some people work in government who abuse those rules.

Ideal or not, KYC will depend on how we feel because it's not ideal for us if we don't want to do it. The terms of KYC seem to be similar from one casino to another. And we choose where we will do the KYC.

[SirJohnVonSlotty]

Text to image generation software using deep machine learning,
can already generate KYC images and ID documentation that can pass KYC acceptance levels.

The issue for KYC is being able to determine if there is a real person at the other side of the process.

I didn't know about this, do you have any examples which I could take a look at?

I'm aware that AI content is entering it's renaissance period, I'm dodging those AI writers as crazy this year, but to generate KYC imagery is a new thing that I didn't know exists  

[bakasabo]

A preferable way of KYC for me would be a picture of me, holding a piece of paper with current date, site address and a visible account information, showing that this is me who has logged in into my platforms account. I am not fond of sharing any of my documents. In fact, with all modern technologies, black market, VPNs, it is not hard to create fake ID or imitate location to bypass existence to unsupported country. That is why all that "send frond and back of ID, passport, drivers license, and a picture of you holding it" does not solve KYC problem.

[Ghostnipple]

Text to image generation software using deep machine learning,
can already generate KYC images and ID documentation that can pass KYC acceptance levels.

The issue for KYC is being able to determine if there is a real person at the other side of the process.

I didn't know about this, do you have any examples which I could take a look at?

I'm aware that AI content is entering it's renaissance period, I'm dodging those AI writers as crazy this year, but to generate KYC imagery is a new thing that I didn't know exists  

There are no off the shelf services made for this specific purpose, at least none that I'm aware of, also I suspect that any currently available off the shelf text to AI service would have anti-counterfeit features in-built.

However given a combination of:
1: sufficient motivation
2: an imagination and an IQ slightly above the average intellect of  recent respondents to this thread
3: access to the correct training data such as the imagery stored in any kyc data base of any existing casino
4: the ethical values of the average casino owner

then it is my opinion that the quality of the image reproduction possible at current levels is sufficiently high enough to produce persuasive results. The quality of that imagery is improving at an exponential rate. I believe also that the Equivalent levels of high quality real-time video is not far off if not already within the realms of possibility.

I have already stated that KYC data is of high commercial value to a casino like stake.com. They are exerting high pressure on players to hand over that data at minimum cost before any legislation prevents them from doing this. Selling access to a KYC database for the purpose of building a text to image training model for deep fake ID image generation, is just one example of how players can be exploited beyond the traditional levels of exploitation you'd expect from the average online casino.

[SirJohnVonSlotty]

2: an imagination and an IQ slightly above the average intellect of  recent respondents to this thread
4: the ethical values of the average casino owner

I was laughing on this a bit too much

I loved the overview, and you're completely right, it would be doable.

[minime0105]

A preferable way of KYC for me would be a picture of me, holding a piece of paper with current date, site address and a visible account information, showing that this is me who has logged in into my platforms account. I am not fond of sharing any of my documents. In fact, with all modern technologies, black market, VPNs, it is not hard to create fake ID or imitate location to bypass existence to unsupported country. That is why all that "send frond and back of ID, passport, drivers license, and a picture of you holding it" does not solve KYC problem.

KYC will be determined directly from the platform demands, because i think that each of the platform have their on way of making or having theirs method of verification, i know that in KYC verification what's necessary there is the image of the follow, so with such way i understand that KYC is something i believe that during the verification it demands one and two ways, so i believe that some people think that the demand of one particular platform concerning KYC verification is same thing.

[Cookdata]

KYC is a never-ending debate, but we all know what we want in this space, no KYC is a freedom you can't buy from anyone, it is an indispensable element for users regardless of the casino's benefits. Money laundering in casinos can be reduced by limiting the number of withdrawals unless the casino does so and uses the players as the victims.

Just a few hours ago, Cointracker users emails were leaked due to some carelessness on the team's part, and the users are angry and want to sue the company for allowing their data to be exposed, the same scenario can happen to Casino if it has not already happened, nobody can properly save your documents the way you do, and the moment they are uploaded to the internet, that is the end of your privacy.

[Jemzx00]

Text to image generation software using deep machine learning,
can already generate KYC images and ID documentation that can pass KYC acceptance levels.

The issue for KYC is being able to determine if there is a real person at the other side of the process.

This is not really a solution, to begin with this is most likely illegal, then you are also taking a massive risk as the casino could ask for more documentation and you will have no way to produce it as all of it was false, and finally if at some point this became popular among some gamblers then casinos will begin to ask for videos of the gamblers holding their documents or even ask to make a video call with you, defeating the whole purpose of doing this.

Where there is no law then there is no law broken and therefore no crime.

No law? Falsification of documents and Identity theft are both serious crimes and people who do this are liable for some jail time once caught. Other than doing illegal activities, you may make the KYC thing worst, especially when a gambling platform requested additional information regarding your documents as it is just made up. You may also, not receive or recover your funds if you won't be able to provide the same information if the casino asked for further verification.

[BITCOIN4X]

KYC is a never-ending debate, but we all know what we want in this space, no KYC is a freedom you can't buy from anyone, it is an indispensable element for users regardless of the casino's benefits. Money laundering in casinos can be reduced by limiting the number of withdrawals unless the casino does so and uses the players as the victims.

Just a few hours ago, Cointracker users emails were leaked due to some carelessness on the team's part, and the users are angry and want to sue the company for allowing their data to be exposed, the same scenario can happen to Casino if it has not already happened, nobody can properly save your documents the way you do, and the moment they are uploaded to the internet, that is the end of your privacy.

I can't really gamble at casinos that exempt me from KYC. Some of the casinos don't ask for personal documents at first, but when you win something that looks like a big, they may demand that you complete the KYC. The lowest data is email, then cellphone number, and maybe they will ask for other data such as bills or whatever they think is necessary so that withdrawals can be made. Regulatory reasons may make sense, but it sure hurts the customer in the end when this data is leaked and misused.

KYC should not be required for any gambler, but since some people may use gambling sites for money laundering or other unlawful things, rules were definitely made. All problems start with the user himself, and therefore prevention is thought of regardless of being detrimental or beneficial to one side or both parties.

[kamvreto]

~snip~KYC should not be required for any gambler, but since some people may use gambling sites for money laundering or other unlawful things, rules were definitely made. All problems start with the user himself, and therefore prevention is thought of regardless of being detrimental or beneficial to one side or both parties.

what is feared is that cases of money laundering will indeed occur, because online casinos will be very vulnerable to being misused as a place to store crime proceeds and eliminate traces by laundering money in casino games.
KYC regulations are needed to find out who the customer is who is depositing and withdrawing a lot of money in several transactions. Maybe not all of them require KYC, only in case of large withdrawals for security reasons. But will this be a good solution? in some online casinos KYC is required, and we as users are also given the choice whether to do KYC or not, we also have to really have the best and most trusted online casino. do not let the data that we input be misused. KYC is good for preventing money laundering and other types of crime, but KYC will also backfire if not in the right place.

[freedomgo]

The side of the casino:

One more, they will always say that they must ensure that their users are not from certain restricted countries to make them safe. However, this may not be the main reason.

If comparing the pros and cons of doing KYC and not, it will never end, moreover if we are talking about the centralized casino. although they always say that they are high in privacy, when they are asking for KYC this means that they are not dealing with privacy. However, we don't know if they are really trusted enough or not in keeping safe our data. I really hate sending photos of my identity and my face to the KYC identification because this is too private. But sometimes, we don't have the choice to pick the best casino to have. Once more, they will not give us the solution that the term and condition may make the suers afraid to continue.

I don’t believe that centralized casinos have high privacy because if they do, they don’t have to disclose our private information into the government that regulated them. But it’s not the case since centralized casinos have to follow the terms and conditions given by the government, otherwise they will subject for investigation. So my point is, let’s just accept the reality that if you gamble in reputable centralized casinos, be ready to take the risk since KYC is soon to become compulsory. And with that, privacy is no longer given to us as these casinos have taken our own privacy.

[madnessteat]

A preferable way of KYC for me would be a picture of me, holding a piece of paper with current date, site address and a visible account information, showing that this is me who has logged in into my platforms account. I am not fond of sharing any of my documents. In fact, with all modern technologies, black market, VPNs, it is not hard to create fake ID or imitate location to bypass existence to unsupported country. That is why all that "send frond and back of ID, passport, drivers license, and a picture of you holding it" does not solve KYC problem.

I agree with you. I, too, am of the opinion that KYC cannot give any guarantee that the account really belongs to the person in whose name it is registered. I've heard more than once that abusers have hundreds of accounts on various sites.

There are more and more stories on the internet lately about someone being played with dip-fake technology. I think that even a video conference will not help to identify the person on the other end of the line, if it is very necessary.

[BitcoinAccepted]

Sites can use the KYC procedure as they wish. There are no standard rules for this. Unfortunately, it is also often used to delay payouts, as we have seen in the past. And then when documents are requested, sites are happy to take weeks to complete the verification. There are also scams that ask for new additional documents. The KYC has always been there in online gambling. It has become more and more a requirement, but many gamblers will have few problems with it. In a gambling shop you also have to show your passport if you are going to gamble there.

[Ghostnipple]

2: an imagination and an IQ slightly above the average intellect of  recent respondents to this thread
4: the ethical values of the average casino owner

I was laughing on this a bit too much

I loved the overview, and you're completely right, it would be doable.

haha thanks, I'm trying to figure out who is running AI text generators on their accounts.