Whoops out of smerit. Should there be a way to buy some from theymos?

[DaveF]

Just went to merit a bunch of posts and ran out before I finished. Eliminating the become a merit source option, how about something like a copper membership so you can post images, a way to buy some merits from the source.

Would have to be handled on a case by case basis, since you don't want to be selling merit to someone who might abuse it. But, a couple of bucks for 50 or so merit might not be the worst deal.

Or I just start making notes and when I get some I send some. Never thought about it until now.

EDIT: This is not a beg for merit since something like that would only work once (now) but a more in general thing. I get some now but run out again in 7 months and wind up in the same situation. But throw a couple of dollars into the bitcointalk treasury and get some would be a workable thing.

-Dave

[1715457225]

1715457225

[1715457225]

1715457225

[1715457225]

1715457225

[Charles-Tim]

Merit should be free in everyway it can be given to people that deserves it.

I can see that you are a good poster, applying for a merit source would be good (but theymos is not even making anyone a merit source for now).

It would be better if theymos can automatically make people that has over 5000 or more merits to be a merit source, even if only little would be given. I see people having such kind of merits to be worthy of becoming a merit source and you are almost there.

If you are out of smerit, I thought you knew about this: [self-moderated] Report unmerited good posts to Merit Source

[DaveF]

I can see that you are a good poster, applying for a merit source would be good (but theymos is not even making anyone a merit source for now).

To me being a merit source would probably make me feel like I have to go out and send merits. More like an obligation. If I paid for them then it's more like they are mine I can be as free or as stingy with them as I like. Just my view.

...If you are out of smerit, I thought you knew about this: [self-moderated] Report unmerited good posts to Merit Source

Knew yes, remembered no....   :-)

-Dave

[Erumo]

I think it is better to ask to increase monthly merit amount if you are merit source. Buying merit automatically means having trade relations > trading means buying and selling > selling merit isnt allowed. Simple

[The Sceptical Chymist]

To me being a merit source would probably make me feel like I have to go out and send merits. More like an obligation.

Yep, it does feel like an obligation--but truthfully I can only speak for myself.  Other merit sources have become inactive and maybe don't feel like it's a "job".  The only reason it seems that way for me is because I'm an ardent supporter of the merit system and I want to keep the merits circulating. 

I'm sure you remember what the situation was prior to Jan. 2018, with account farmers and all the shitposts that resulted from people trying to rank up a million accounts in order to sell them or enroll them in campaigns or bounties.  Theymos's solution was both brilliant and unexpected--I remember having the flu really bad and waking up, checking the forum and seeing Meta explode with dozens of threads about this new thing called the merit system.  I thought I was hallucinating because of my fever!

Your idea might be a good one for trusted members, but there would certainly be attempts to buy sMerits to send to alt accounts, friends, and who knows what.  However, Theymos sent me a PM recently (after he changed my username) in which he said he had no plans to increase any merit source's monthly sMerit allocation--so I'm guessing he thinks there are already enough merits circulating and won't go for it.  Just a hunch.

[RapTarX]

Wouldn't that create a mess? Some account farmers would buy a few lots and then distribute them among their accounts to build up their accounts faster. These days there are a lot of signature campaigns around & I guess this would be a fantastic business idea for them LOL. Spammers would be everywhere; it would be hard to identify them sometimes as they would have so many earned merits.

Or I just start making notes and when I get some I send some. Never thought about it until now.

You can make notes for deserving post & report them here- [self-moderated] Report unmerited good posts to Merit Source

[_BlackStar]

-snip-
EDIT: This is not a beg for merit since something like that would only work once (now) but a more in general thing. I get some now but run out again in 7 months and wind up in the same situation. But throw a couple of dollars into the bitcointalk treasury and get some would be a workable thing.

I think I know what you mean, but anyway I don't agree that one should spend a few dollar for sMerit from forum. Your quality posts should be able to help you get a lot of merit where you can return half of it to the community in this forum, especially in posts that you consider quality.

Admin have confirmed that forum has sufficient funds to keep the forum running normally, they are no longer expecting donations and recently they are also not auctioning factoid slots. So I don't know what compelled the forum or the admin to agree to sell sMerit to its members. You should be able to easily earn lots of sMerit for free without having to pay anything, we know that.

[DaveF]

To me being a merit source would probably make me feel like I have to go out and send merits. More like an obligation.

Yep, it does feel like an obligation--but truthfully I can only speak for myself.  Other merit sources have become inactive and maybe don't feel like it's a "job".  The only reason it seems that way for me is because I'm an ardent supporter of the merit system and I want to keep the merits circulating.  

Which may or may not be part of the problem. If sources go inactive and are not replaced the flow may slow. Same with not treating it and lets not use the word job how about responsibility. If I were a source I would think part of that is the responsibility to send out merits.

Your idea might be a good one for trusted members, but there would certainly be attempts to buy sMerits to send to alt accounts, friends, and who knows what.  However, Theymos sent me a PM recently (after he changed my username) in which he said he had no plans to increase any merit source's monthly sMerit allocation--so I'm guessing he thinks there are already enough merits circulating and won't go for it.  Just a hunch.

and

Wouldn't that create a mess? Some account farmers would buy a few lots and then distribute them among their accounts to build up their accounts faster. These days there are a lot of signature campaigns around & I guess this would be a fantastic business idea for them LOL. Spammers would be everywhere; it would be hard to identify them sometimes as they would have so many earned merits.

That is why I said:

Would have to be handled on a case by case basis, since you don't want to be selling merit to someone who might abuse it.

You could get away with it once but you would wind up burning a good account that Theymos thought was worthy of being able to buy merit and also it would be easy to see which accounts were sent to and those could be tagged too.

Admin have confirmed that forum has sufficient funds to keep the forum running normally, they are no longer expecting donations and recently they are also not auctioning factoid slots. So I don't know what compelled the forum or the admin to agree to sell sMerit to its members. You should be able to easily earn lots of sMerit for free without having to pay anything, we know that.

Because I tend to give out a lot and although I do get a lot remember you need 2 received for 1 to send so my supply does dry up now and then. If it was a 1 to 1 or 1.5 to 1 it might be a different story. Or I might have given more to some posts so would have wound up in the same situation anyway.



Since a few people did send some merits (thank you) I will keep them flowing. And now that the report posts that need merit post is back in my brain I will add to it as needed.

-Dave

[LoyceV]

To me being a merit source would probably make me feel like I have to go out and send merits. More like an obligation.

It does feel like that, especially since they keep respawning. But the solution is easy too: just send more at once. So there you go: apply to be a Merit source

Buying sMerits from theymos sounds like a bad idea. You shouldn't (have to) spend money to Merit users.

[OgNasty]

I don’t think theymos selling merit would be a good idea because it would somewhat establish a market for buying/selling merit that would likely be abused. It also seems a little backwards, as handing out merit is a bit of a job, not some great privilege. If anything, those handing out merit honorably should be getting some sort of support from the forum, not the other way around.

[Hispo]

I believe the idea has some appeal and it could have some benefits, one of the main problems I see it would be the indirect encouragement for the creation of a market for merits, since we would be fixing an "official" price in satoshis for those bought merits. So I remain mostly leaned not to implement this.

On the other hand, if the administration decided to give this idea a try I would personally recommend to set some restrictions on those bought merits, to avoid abuse by some users: restrict this offer to reputable members of the community, daily/weekly limit to send those merits, etc.

I believe things work good enough as they are and it would be bad to over-complicate things.

Would not be more interesting for us to have the chance to revert 3 of our received merits into 1 smerit? So if someone actually wants to send (and does not have any smerit), there would be a path to, with an intrinsic "tax" to discourage abuse

My two sats.

[Upgrade00]

I run out of smerits quite a lot these days, or get close to being totally out, as like to keep <10 smerits in my satchel for emergency situations, where I see a really exceptional post. With a pending merit source application, the best I can do is wait and try to earn more merits.

Reporting here is an option, but doesn't cross the mind often.I briefly thought about a thread where reputable members (who ardently give out merits),, can report their accounts to be merited by sources, with the sole purpose of getting more smerits.
Some could see it as a way for users to abuse the system and blur the lines that define "reputable", but for me, it doesn't matter if a few users get more merits (they should be above 1000 to qualify), as long as it's circulating around more.

[Mpamaegbu]

~snipped~

Other merit sources have become inactive and maybe don't feel like it's a "job".

Shouldn't now be the right time to effect the Matthew principle of taking from those who don't have and pilling it on those who have and implement it as a practical reality here then? I don't see any reason certain MS will go to sleep after their honourary selection for a task. It will do the community a lot of good if their merit "sourceship" is revoked and handed over to those whose applications for merit are still pending. I think it will be better that way.

[DdmrDdmr]

I don’t particularly like the idea of being able to purchase sMerits, even if those allowed to do so were cherry-picked by the Admins and/or Merit Sources. Essentially, the wrong message could be read on the forum, whereby some privileged people were purchasing Merits (the word-of-mouth would probably spread that Merits were being purchased, not sMerits).

An easier to sell concept would be something like this:

<…> A concept such as a delegate merit source may help. @Jet Cash used the term "dMerits" back in 2018, and the idea would build on top of that: Allow for Merit Sources to designate 1 Delegate Merit Source, and transfer a percentage of their own allowance (sMerits; not having to merit them first so they could sMerit others).
The idea behind being that you’d have more eyes on the board, derive new sources through delegation (delegating therefore the required conceptual trust on level down the chain). Of course it may not be ideal, since the Merit Source and delegate may roam the same boards and perhaps have similar meriting likes. <…>

The above idea would easily fit the narrative of more people acting as Merit Sources (albeit by delegation), having no buy/sell ties to the concept, but rather extending the idea of trust as a basis (the Merit Source trusts the dMerit Source enough to pass on a certain amount of sMerits to another person).

The board rules may need to be given a thought (i.e. only applies to Merits Sources above with a certain threshold of sMerit – not the smaller ones), but it doesn’t seem like something too complicated from a conceptual point of view.

[LoyceV]

The above idea would easily fit the narrative of more people acting as Merit Sources (albeit by delegation), having no buy/sell ties to the concept, but rather extending the idea of trust as a basis (the Merit Source trusts the dMerit Source enough to pass on a certain amount of sMerits to another person).

That would be much more work to implement than just making OP a Merit source. He Merits the right posts, so why shouldn't he be one? For now, I'll just send some sMerits his way the old fashioned way, by Meriting his good posts.

[drwhobox]

Wouldn't that create a mess? Some account farmers would buy a few lots and then distribute them among their accounts to build up their accounts faster. These days there are a lot of signature campaigns around & I guess this would be a fantastic business idea for them LOL. Spammers would be everywhere; it would be hard to identify them sometimes as they would have so many earned merits.

That is a good point but aren't we all able to understand while they are distributing merits among them? I mean, everyone here is quite smart to understand the difference between a spammy post and an original/valuable post.

But I admit these business-minded people will surely find a way to make it look real 

[BitcoinGirl.Club]

I wish I could help with large number but consider at least some better than nothing from me.

Lately are we running out of sMerits? Few days ago it was The Sceptical Chymist, now it's you. I am not a merit source, I don't want to be too, not in the near future but sometimes I feel I don't have available sendable merits too.

[Agbe]

It would be better if theymos can automatically make people that has over 5000 or more merits to be a merit source, even if only little would be given.

I don't think more Merit sources are needed in the forum because the ones we have now are crying of lacking or out of source Merits before one or two weeks. And these merit sources have been asking theymos for top up of merits but theymos has not been able to even allocate 50 extra to one source therefore if all the legendary members who has 5000 + merits become Merit source where will theymos have the merit to allocate to all when the present ones also need merits. My opinion in this merit issue is that, theymos should increase the allocation of the merits for the merits sources both the local boards sources. Or if there is enough merits in his merit generating bank then more Merit sources are needed but if it is not then he should increase the present sources allocation.

The merit sources are ready to work now and the merits are not enough for them so theymos should look into the matter. No community population is bigger than it resources...

[NdaMk]

Lately are we running out of sMerits? Few days ago it was The Sceptical Chymist, now it's you. I am not a merit source, I don't want to be too, not in the near future but sometimes I feel I don't have available sendable merits too.

Since you feel so sometimes or lately as you said, then why not consider being one. I thought merit source is given to people that merit good posts often even though it’s a voluntary work. If you run out of Smerit and still feel like given more good posts that are worthy of it, then consider being a merit source too, it’ll be helpful to forum and you’ve contributed well here too.

[Coyster]

Since you feel so sometimes or lately as you said, then why not consider being one. I thought merit source is given to people that merit good posts often even though it’s a voluntary work. If you run out of Smerit and still feel like given more good posts that are worthy of it, then consider being a merit source too, it’ll be helpful to forum and you’ve contributed well here too.

You don't just consider yourself to be a MS and then you get it, there's a procedure through applying for the position and being a reputable user, though there are some MS's that were personally approached by theymos himself for the position. Thus even if you merit good posts often, it doesn't mean you automatically get the voluntary work, you still have to apply, and since there are quite a lot of MS applicants waiting to be selected, i think it somewhat discourages users from going through the stress of collecting ten undermerited posts in order to apply to be a MS.