Whoops out of smerit. Should there be a way to buy some from theymos?

[The Sceptical Chymist]

Shouldn't now be the right time to effect the Matthew principle of taking from those who don't have and pilling it on those who have and implement it as a practical reality here then? I don't see any reason certain MS will go to sleep after their honourary selection for a task.

That's the thing: I don't think some merit sources see the postition as an honor--particularly those who didn't apply but who were made sources back in 2019 (I'm one of them).  I'd imagine the people who went through the trouble of creating an application thread and got accepted do see it that way, but not everyone had the same path to becoming a merit source.

And yes, any merit source who isn't circulating merits at an acceptable rate (but who knows what that is?) should be replaced.  The problem is that nobody knows what Theymos is thinking or if he's keeping an eye on the data.

One good thing is that there hasn't been an outcry from the community that it's become way too difficult to rank up.  I'd think that if there were far too few merits going around, members would be creating threads in Meta stating as much (or they'd be starting up obvious merit-begging ones).  So the system might be running pretty smoothly.

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[NotATether]

Just went to merit a bunch of posts and ran out before I finished. Eliminating the become a merit source option, how about something like a copper membership so you can post images, a way to buy some merits from the source.

Just relay them to me and I'll have them merited until you get a replenishment.

[philipma1957]

Just went to merit a bunch of posts and ran out before I finished. Eliminating the become a merit source option, how about something like a copper membership so you can post images, a way to buy some merits from the source.

Would have to be handled on a case by case basis, since you don't want to be selling merit to someone who might abuse it. But, a couple of bucks for 50 or so merit might not be the worst deal.

Or I just start making notes and when I get some I send some. Never thought about it until now.

EDIT: This is not a beg for merit since something like that would only work once (now) but a more in general thing. I get some now but run out again in 7 months and wind up in the same situation. But throw a couple of dollars into the bitcointalk treasury and get some would be a workable thing.

-Dave

I hit my limit of 50 a month for 1 member by giving you the 48.

As for the topic :

Maybe it is a legendary perk only?

[2double0]

If I understand correctly, are you proposing to buy just sMerits (sendable merits) only or will it also add up doubled to you total earned merits too?
I'm too skeptical on this but I think merit sources already get enough sMerits to distribute between the community for their contribution, the only exception are the ones who are not doing it because of their respective reasons. Theymos may consider to take away those unused sMerits and recycle them by circulating them among active MS instead of allowing to buy sMerits.

I hit my limit of 50 a month for 1 member by giving you the 48.

As for the topic :

Maybe it is a legendary perk only?

Sorry for the interruption but is that an sMerits bribe or a way to say that my part is done, now you may continue?
Just kidding 

[philipma1957]

If I understand correctly, are you proposing to buy just sMerits (sendable merits) only or will it also add up doubled to you total earned merits too?
I'm too skeptical on this but I think merit sources already get enough sMerits to distribute between the community for their contribution, the only exception are the ones who are not doing it because of their respective reasons. Theymos may consider to take away those unused sMerits and recycle them by circulating them among active MS instead of allowing to buy sMerits.

I hit my limit of 50 a month for 1 member by giving you the 48.

As for the topic :

Maybe it is a legendary perk only?

Sorry for the interruption but is that an sMerits bribe or a way to say that my part is done, now you may continue?
Just kidding  

I have 1000 merits to give as I type. I am a merit source. It is tiring to give merits out and I know Dave since 2014 maybe 2013. He lives in the Next state and does a lot of business in my state. He is level headed and if he wants merits he got what I could give him.

I have given more than 10000 merits as a source it is work. I run my signature as a public service almost all the time. (I did a 4 week paid  campaign this year) 1st one in over 4

years.

I do think that a legendary person looking to buy merits in December is not a bad idea.

all year long it is a lousy idea.

available to every member it is a lousy idea.

[BitcoinGirl.Club]

Since you feel so sometimes or lately as you said, then why not consider being one. I thought merit source is given to people that merit good posts often even though it’s a voluntary work. If you run out of Smerit and still feel like given more good posts that are worthy of it, then consider being a merit source too, it’ll be helpful to forum and you’ve contributed well here too.

Good question and it is not the first time I heard it 😉
For me being a merit source means you have a burden (unspoken as no one is forcing you) to perform a job that is given to you. You want it or not, you will feel a pressure to yourself if you regularly do not look at posts from others and evaluate them. But when I am not a merit source, I am free. I will send merit to when I like, whoever I like. No one can justify my job as I am not in a commitment. It's the commitment that I do not have to be a merit source yet. If I ever feel I am ready then I will give it a go for sure.

i think it somewhat discourages users from going through the stress of collecting ten undermerited posts in order to apply to be a MS.

If anyone is not willing to give the time to find only 10 posts that worth receiving merit then he does not deserve to be a merit source before anything else 😂

[2double0]

I have 1000 merits to give as I type. I am a merit source. It is tiring to give merits out and I know Dave since 2014 maybe 2013. He lives in the Next state and does a lot of business in my state. He is level headed and if he wants merits he got what I could give him.

That is great. I hope I didn't offend you because I already add the phrase 'just kidding' as it was not meant to insult or provoke you at all. TBH, they are your sMerits and so your choice to give them to whomsoever you want to.

I have given more than 10000 merits as a source it is work. I run my signature as a public service almost all the time. (I did a 4 week paid  campaign this year) 1st one in over 4 years.

That is highly commendable (applaudable) 👏

I do think that a legendary person looking to buy merits in December is not a bad idea.

all year long it is a lousy idea.

available to every member it is a lousy idea.

I get your point there, but I also asked a question and maybe you could help.

Should a legendary be allowed to buy just sMerits (sendable merits) only or will it also add up doubled number to their total earned merits too?

[philipma1957]

Just went to merit a bunch of posts and ran out before I finished. Eliminating the become a merit source option, how about something like a copper membership so you can post images, a way to buy some merits from the source.

Would have to be handled on a case by case basis, since you don't want to be selling merit to someone who might abuse it. But, a couple of bucks for 50 or so merit might not be the worst deal.

Or I just start making notes and when I get some I send some. Never thought about it until now.

EDIT: This is not a beg for merit since something like that would only work once (now) but a more in general thing. I get some now but run out again in 7 months and wind up in the same situation. But throw a couple of dollars into the bitcointalk treasury and get some would be a workable thing.

-Dave

Tacked on 12 more I wanted to see if a post can read over 50 merits as 50 is the monthly limit.

First post now reads 60 merits as I gave 48 in dec and 12 now total of 60 merits.

[John Abraham]

Dave, I would like to share my opinion.
Everyone will suggest you share the best post to merit sources if you are out of sMerits. There are a couple of threads where merit sources gave a chance to people to inform them about their excellent posts. But I understand you don't want to post there just for a few posts. Or, it's more accurate to say it's easy for you to merit the post you wish to instead of waiting for someone to do it. Everyone has a different point of view. In your opinion, a post may deserve a couple of merits, while others can argue.

I would say, Why not Apply to become a merit source since you are an Established forum member? Spending money on the forum just to merit posts won't be a good idea.

To me being a merit source would probably make me feel like I have to go out and send merits. More like an obligation.

I understand your concern. Don't take it as an obligation. You are an active member and you spend a decent time here. You will spend your sMerits without realizing that it's getting finished just like The Sceptical Chymist. It's volunteer work. You don't have to worry about that. At least, I feel this way.

[Faisal2202]

snip

I think your intention are to become a merit source well, that's a good thing its also mean there will be more smerits in circulation but i think option of buying copper membership is not fair as there will be no governance remains on platform. Like the one with good content quality but with no or less money will remain behind in the race of merit number and the second is who do not have good posts quality but have money then they can buy those smerits and can share among his/her favourable person because if that person has no sense of making or contributing to the btt then how can be the decision of them sending merit to each other will improve like i know you can give smerits to anyone you want but if you walk around only few board and section the the circulation will narrow down to only few seekers.

Sencodly, if you want to become a merit source then you can learn from these profiles.

• Applying to be a merit source by hilariousetc
• Application to be a Merit source for Bangladesh Thread by The Sceptical Chymist
• fillippone Merit Source Application by fillippone

well you if you are so determined to contribute btt by encouraging newbies or low rank member making beautiful content for btt than i must say until you become a merit source you should apply for getting merits from other merits sources here is the three merit source options that i think you should apply.

• [Merit] Share your best posts/threads with Fillippone to be merit assessed
• [Merit] Share your best topics with Merit Source
• [self-moderated] Report unmerited good posts to Merit Source

maybe there are more on the list but i just familiar with these three and they are active. Well overall, if you became a merit source then try to remain active and i really appreciate your enthusiasm towards community.

[LoyceV]

Tacked on 12 more I wanted to see if a post can read over 50 merits as 50 is the monthly limit.

First post now reads 60 merits as I gave 48 in dec and 12 now total of 60 merits.

The limit is 100 Merit per post.

[BenCodie]

It seems like the system just needs a tweak to fix this problem. I came up with two ideas.

Idea 1: Adjust sMerit per merit based on user rank from the time it is integrated forward. For example:

Legendary: Receives 2 sMerit per Merit received
Hero: Receives 1.5 sMerit per Merit received
Senior member: Receives 1.2 sMerit per Merit received
Full member and below: 1 sMerit per Merit received (No change)

Idea 2: Adjust sMerit per merit based on user rank and apply it to the Merit system being integrated forward. For example:

Legendary: Receives 1.5 sMerit per Merit received going forward + receives Current Merit +50% in sMerit 
Hero: Receives 1.2 sMerit per Merit received + receives Current Merit +20% in sMerit
Senior member: Receives 1.1 sMerit per Merit received + receives Current Merit +10% in sMerit
Full member and below: 1 sMerit per Merit received (No change)

The difference between idea 1 and idea 2 is that idea 1 adjusts the system going forward, while idea 2 applies the to all past merit. I believe that either of the ideas shouldn't saturate the Merit ecosystem too much. Presumably, idea 1 would not saturate it at all, it would just increase future distribution. While idea 2 would instantly increase circulating Merit.

[BITCOIN4X]

It seems like the system just needs a tweak to fix this problem. I came up with two ideas.

Idea 1: Adjust sMerit per merit based on user rank from the time it is integrated forward. For example:

Legendary: Receives 2 sMerit per Merit received
Hero: Receives 1.5 sMerit per Merit received
Senior member: Receives 1.2 sMerit per Merit received
Full member and below: 1 sMerit per Merit received (No change)

Your idea is not bad, it can definitely help in some cases. But I don't think of it as one of the conditions that this system should change and the forum should implement this idea. Obviously your idea is to help users earn lots of sMerit every time they earn merit, but I tend don't see many cases where admin have to upgrade the merit system as long as merit sources are everywhere.

Merit sources don't work like robots to detect all quality posts, but there are ways to get them to pay attention to those posts if they do. I think this thread is one of them:

1. [self-moderated] Report unmerited good posts to Merit Source

[arhipova]

It would be better if theymos can automatically make people that has over 5000 or more merits to be a merit source,

That can result in abuse in power by some. Filtering the application reduces its chances.

[BenCodie]

It seems like the system just needs a tweak to fix this problem. I came up with two ideas.

Idea 1: Adjust sMerit per merit based on user rank from the time it is integrated forward. For example:

Legendary: Receives 2 sMerit per Merit received
Hero: Receives 1.5 sMerit per Merit received
Senior member: Receives 1.2 sMerit per Merit received
Full member and below: 1 sMerit per Merit received (No change)

Your idea is not bad, it can definitely help in some cases. But I don't think of it as one of the conditions that this system should change and the forum should implement this idea. Obviously your idea is to help users earn lots of sMerit every time they earn merit, but I tend don't see many cases where admin have to upgrade the merit system as long as merit sources are everywhere.

Merit sources don't work like robots to detect all quality posts, but there are ways to get them to pay attention to those posts if they do. I think this thread is one of them:

1. [self-moderated] Report unmerited good posts to Merit Source

I would not say this would cause people to are earn "lots" more sMerit. The concentration of sMerit would go to those who would be better distributing it (higher ranked users) and would not effect the vast majority of the forum (Full members and below). Not to mention that the amounts could definitely be configurable (reduced or increased based on what is seen fit). The point in the idea is to address the problem that people who are distributing merit to good posters are running out, not considering the "merit source" idea that is currently in place.

It would be better if theymos can automatically make people that has over 5000 or more merits to be a merit source,

That can result in abuse in power by some. Filtering the application reduces its chances.

Overall I think that a better system needs to be in place than a manual application system. To combine the two ideas, after reaching a certain amount of merit, one can create an automated support/oppose application that can be made once every X time (for example once a year) where at least 80% of (insert user condition here) must support for it for a user to become a merit source.

Many ideas can be discussed. Though if one thing should be taken into account from all of this, it's that things should be carefully made to be more automated than reliant on manual things like applications. Very old school, I'm surprised that's the current approach

[John Abraham]

It seems like the system just needs a tweak to fix this problem. I came up with two ideas.
Idea 2: Adjust sMerit per merit based on user rank and apply it to the Merit system being integrated forward. For example:

Legendary: Receives 1.5 sMerit per Merit received going forward + receives Current Merit +50% in sMerit  
Hero: Receives 1.2 sMerit per Merit received + receives Current Merit +20% in sMerit
Senior member: Receives 1.1 sMerit per Merit received + receives Current Merit +10% in sMerit
Full member and below: 1 sMerit per Merit received (No change)

Are you for real?
Forget about Idea 1. Even if Idea 2 take into consideration. There is no need for Merit sources anymore. Currently, we receive 0.5 sMerit for each merit we get. If Legendaries receive 1.5 sMerit per Merit, they receive. It's 3x already. Then you suggested the same thing for other ranks up to Full Members. Well, In no time, You will see more merits than posts made per day. No offense, but I wouldn't say I like the idea. People won't have posts to spend their merits. Suppose I received 500 Meits and I have 600 Merits to spend. When I spend 600 merits, someone else will have more merits to spend as well. The Merit circulation will explode.

According to the DdmrDdmr's Merit dashboard^[1], 21,926 Merit was transacted in March 2023. In Comparison, only Legendaries received 11,884 Merits (54.2%). Forget about Hero, Sr, and Full Members. In Comparison, 1948 Merits were obtained by Member, Jr, Newbie and Brand new (8.88%). Imagine what will happen there. Once again, No offense, But it's not a good idea.

[1] https://public.tableau.com/app/profile/ddmrddmr/viz/shared/4S8ZR5P6X

[BenCodie]

It seems like the system just needs a tweak to fix this problem. I came up with two ideas.
Idea 2: Adjust sMerit per merit based on user rank and apply it to the Merit system being integrated forward. For example:

Legendary: Receives 1.5 sMerit per Merit received going forward + receives Current Merit +50% in sMerit  
Hero: Receives 1.2 sMerit per Merit received + receives Current Merit +20% in sMerit
Senior member: Receives 1.1 sMerit per Merit received + receives Current Merit +10% in sMerit
Full member and below: 1 sMerit per Merit received (No change)

Are you for real?
Forget about Idea 1. Even if Idea 2 take into consideration. There is no need for Merit sources anymore. Currently, we receive 0.5 sMerit for each merit we get. If Legendaries receive 1.5 sMerit per Merit, they receive. It's 3x already. Then you suggested the same thing for other ranks up to Full Members. Well, In no time, You will see more merits than posts made per day. No offense, but I wouldn't say I like the idea. People won't have posts to spend their merits. Suppose I received 500 Meits and I have 600 Merits to spend. When I spend 600 merits, someone else will have more merits to spend as well. The Merit circulation will explode.

According to the DdmrDdmr's Merit dashboard^[1], 21,926 Merit was transacted in March 2023. In Comparison, only Legendaries received 11,884 Merits (54.2%). Forget about Hero, Sr, and Full Members. In Comparison, 1948 Merits were obtained by Member, Jr, Newbie and Brand new (8.88%). Imagine what will happen there. Once again, No offense, But it's not a good idea.

[1] https://public.tableau.com/app/profile/ddmrddmr/viz/shared/4S8ZR5P6X

Chill bud. The numbers are an example. They can easily be modified as to what is seen fit by those who make that kind of decision. The point of the ideas are to vary the amount of sMerit per user rank. Not to increase the circulation of Merit. You raised a great point here:

It seems like the system just needs a tweak to fix this problem. I came up with two ideas.
Idea 2: Adjust sMerit per merit based on user rank and apply it to the Merit system being integrated forward. For example:

Legendary: Receives 1.5 sMerit per Merit received going forward + receives Current Merit +50% in sMerit  
Hero: Receives 1.2 sMerit per Merit received + receives Current Merit +20% in sMerit
Senior member: Receives 1.1 sMerit per Merit received + receives Current Merit +10% in sMerit
Full member and below: 1 sMerit per Merit received (No change)

Then you suggested the same thing for other ranks up to Full Members. Well, In no time, You will see more merits than posts made per day. No offense, but I wouldn't say I like the idea. People won't have posts to spend their merits. Suppose I received 500 Meits and I have 600 Merits to spend. When I spend 600 merits, someone else will have more merits to spend as well. The Merit circulation will explode.

But again, that is the problem with the numbers. Not the idea itself (to vary sMerit based on user rank).

[LoyceV]

Idea 1: Adjust sMerit per merit based on user rank from the time it is integrated forward. For example:

Legendary: Receives 2 sMerit per Merit received

That would introduce exponential growth, and old Legendary account farmers would have unlimited sMerit to farm more accounts. Basically, the Merit system would become worthless.

Full member and below: 1 sMerit per Merit received (No change)

It's 1 sMerit per 2 Merit received.

[BenCodie]

Idea 1: Adjust sMerit per merit based on user rank from the time it is integrated forward. For example:

Legendary: Receives 2 sMerit per Merit received

That would introduce exponential growth, and old Legendary account farmers would have unlimited sMerit to farm more accounts. Basically, the Merit system would become worthless.

Let's say for arguments sake that it becomes 1 : 1 for legendary members only going forward from the change. Would it really mean unlimited sMerit for "account farmers"? Won't these members still need to actually acquire the merit in order to farm more accounts?

I understand that the numbers are incorrect, the idea itself to slightly tweak sMerit distribution however, I think can help to solve the issue DaveF is facing without massively effecting the value of Merit.

Full member and below: 1 sMerit per Merit received (No change)

It's 1 sMerit per 2 Merit received.

My mistake 

[Accardo]

Idea 1: Adjust sMerit per merit based on user rank from the time it is integrated forward. For example:

Legendary: Receives 2 sMerit per Merit received

That would introduce exponential growth, and old Legendary account farmers would have unlimited sMerit to farm more accounts. Basically, the Merit system would become worthless.

Let's say for arguments sake that it becomes 1 : 1 for legendary members only going forward from the change. Would it really mean unlimited sMerit for "account farmers"? Won't these members still need to actually acquire the merit in order to farm more accounts?

Having a 1:1 ratio would be 1 merit per a merit received, If you get loyce correctly, I think the account farmers already have some sMerits in possession due to their legitimate activities in the forum. Hence if they decide to disseminate 100 merits amongst the legendary accounts in the farm they'll never run out of merits, it'll definitely get useless for Legendary accounts. For instance, 10 legendary accounts managed by one member who has 100 smerits can easily share those merits amongst account 1 that'll receive 100 sMerits for receiving 100merits then it'll forward to account 2 that'll receive same number of sMerits for receiving 100 merits and so on. If the merits keeps circulating amongst their legendary accounts they can boost the number of merits to any amount they wish by meriting themselves for 100 sMerits. The only way the sMerits they own would depreciate is when the farmer tends to build a new account to full member by gradually sending the 100 merits to the new account that'll in turn get 50 sMerits then it reduces down till the new account now realizes about 195 merits; new account receives 50 smerits for 100 merits, then 25 smerits for 50 merits, 12.5 smerits for 25 merits and till it fades, as the legendary account receives the same amount of smerits per Merit sent to them by the new account.  That'll be an abuse, though such activities can be tracked, but they shouldn't be a room for that.