Provably fair games are not fair

[Bitinity]

Here is your problem.. You don't understand how provably fair games work. You think that if you place small bets, you win, but if you place large bets, you lose. That is true for casinos that have fake provably fair games and casinos that rig your bets. Play in a legit casino and you will be fine. Also just because you lost 20x in a row doesn't mean you will win in the next bet. I bet you don't complain after you win 100x in just two bets, do you? You are suffering from gamblers fallacy.

He doesn't even need to change his casino if he doesn't trust its provably fair games anymore. He just need to play at live table games. There are usually presented to players in a way that don't allow any cheat from the house. Anything is shown on the screen to players, dealers are even showing their hands each time they touch something. But if he really thing this provably fair game from this casino is rigged, he should check results and open a scam accusation thread in the right section or in the Investigations section if he needs some assistance.

If he does not even trust provably fair system how can he trust a live table games while there is no way to prove the fairness of live games. Yes it looks live in a real time and looks no way for the house to cheat/rig the game in live game but we never know. I do not mean to offend live games, I say it in general based on OP's situation where he thinks that provably fair is not fair because he get more loses.

[michellee]

In fact, if we play on the most trusted and most popular casino sites, all the games are the same, there's no such thing as fair or unfair.
If Tita says it's fair, it's because we won and the dealer lost, was that fair for the dealer, and conversely, we can say it's unfair, if we lose and the dealer wins, is that fair for those of us who only bet and play.
So my personal response to the question you made is that all games are the same.
Fair or unfair depends on our own mindset not about the problem of the game or even the casino site.
Except if we play at a casino which is indeed a scam and fraud often occurs in it, then it can be said that it is unfair. However, the fault is not entirely with the casino or the players, but we are also wrong for choosing to play at a casino that cannot be relied on and trusted.

This is the truth which seems hidden to some that when it comes to casino gambling no bias actions or activities were being conducted in favour of one and against the other, we don't have fair and unfair games or casinos but what we have is the fair gamblers who thought about this could actually exist, this makes it more interesting to gamble because we know that what we give in is what we get in return, if you're gambling and it's not working then learn more and get improved.

We can only assume that the casino we usually use as a place to gamble is fair so we won't really know what happened. And we shouldn't need to go into details about it either because if we play at a trusted casino, the casino won't cheat its players. After all, once a casino cheats and gets caught by some players, they will immediately lose their reputation and can't continue their business. I also never thought whether the casino where I played gambling was fair or unfair because I thought they must be fair regardless of whether it was right or wrong.

[klidex]

In fact, if we play on the most trusted and most popular casino sites, all the games are the same, there's no such thing as fair or unfair.
If Tita says it's fair, it's because we won and the dealer lost, was that fair for the dealer, and conversely, we can say it's unfair, if we lose and the dealer wins, is that fair for those of us who only bet and play.
So my personal response to the question you made is that all games are the same.
Fair or unfair depends on our own mindset not about the problem of the game or even the casino site.
Except if we play at a casino which is indeed a scam and fraud often occurs in it, then it can be said that it is unfair. However, the fault is not entirely with the casino or the players, but we are also wrong for choosing to play at a casino that cannot be relied on and trusted.

This is the truth which seems hidden to some that when it comes to casino gambling no bias actions or activities were being conducted in favour of one and against the other, we don't have fair and unfair games or casinos but what we have is the fair gamblers who thought about this could actually exist, this makes it more interesting to gamble because we know that what we give in is what we get in return, if you're gambling and it's not working then learn more and get improved.

Fair gambler?
Where is the evidence and statement that a gambler is fair.
Nothing is fair in gambling, even if someone says that he is always fair in every game he plays, then I say all of that is bulshit and there is no point.
Every gambler plays or bets with the aim of getting a win and their profits will do anything and in any way to be able to win.
If gamblers only put forward fairness and surrender in gambling without doing anything, they will only lose and lose.

[len01]

I experimented many times ,
Changing client seed will reset everything ,

and

Let , I am playing keno , you can experiment this,
ok , so game is provably fair ,  
I selected 10 keno number and I faced a long losing streak of 20 then It will always hit when by bet is initial amount or less than initial when i started playing keno
After long losing streak of 20 When i incresed the bet by only a few percent I will continue losing streak
I don't know this assumptiom is right or not
But i experimented 6 months
If you don't believe you can experiment i guarantee you will also face this type of fairness

Here is your problem.. You don't understand how provably fair games work. You think that if you place small bets, you win, but if you place large bets, you lose. That is true for casinos that have fake provably fair games and casinos that rig your bets. Play in a legit casino and you will be fine. Also just because you lost 20x in a row doesn't mean you will win in the next bet. I bet you don't complain after you win 100x in just two bets, do you? You are suffering from gamblers fallacy.

I agree with your statement.
gambling is just for fun and if you expect continuous wins or to get a lot of profit, it's better to stay away from gambling. because gambling is like betting luck and is not good for people who think online gambling will be fair and provide continuous wins.
things like that will happen often because the bookies will always win and if you get a big profit it's just a bonus and I think if you gamble on a gambling platform that has a good reputation it's fairer.

[serjent05]

I experimented many times ,
Changing client seed will reset everything ,

and

Let , I am playing keno , you can experiment this,
ok , so game is provably fair ,  
I selected 10 keno number and I faced a long losing streak of 20 then It will always hit when by bet is initial amount or less than initial when i started playing keno
After long losing streak of 20 When i incresed the bet by only a few percent I will continue losing streak
I don't know this assumptiom is right or not
But i experimented 6 months
If you don't believe you can experiment i guarantee you will also face this type of fairness

Here is your problem.. You don't understand how provably fair games work. You think that if you place small bets, you win, but if you place large bets, you lose. That is true for casinos that have fake provably fair games and casinos that rig your bets. Play in a legit casino and you will be fine. Also just because you lost 20x in a row doesn't mean you will win in the next bet. I bet you don't complain after you win 100x in just two bets, do you? You are suffering from gamblers fallacy.

The idea of only small bets win can be refuted by visiting the casino statistics.  Just by looking at the players bet result, we can see large bets winnings and small bets losing. 

I selected 10 keno number and I faced a long losing streak of 20 then It will always hit when by bet is initial amount or less than initial when i started playing keno
After long losing streak of 20 When i incresed the bet by only a few percent I will continue losing streak
I don't know this assumptiom is right or not
But i experimented 6 months
If you don't believe you can experiment i guarantee you will also face this type of fairness

How about a different approach?  Placing a larger bet first then after several wager, decrease your best size, check if the result is different.


I believe in a provably fair game, the result is random, it is not because your bet is huge why you lost or it is that your bet is small why you win.  It is because the result in a provably fair game is always random.  You win and you lose no matter how much your wagering size is.

[bitgov]

I played provably fair games 1 year and i mostly losed so i am moving to live casino

My english is bad and it's hard for me to make you understand ,

it took me some time to understand What OP is trying to say.
I have read some of the posts to understand the context too, I am not sue - what is the essence of the post.

[Viscore]

I think you don't fully understand what provably fair means, and especially what it doesn't mean. Provably fair doesn't mean you won't lose money in the long run, it doesn't mean the house edge equals 0% or the RTP is 100%. In other words it doesn't mean the expected value is not negative. It just mean you can check the outcome and see if the casino has cheated you or not. So you shouldn't expect to not lose money by playing to these games, you will lose the same amount of money in the long run as a similar live game or a similar non provably fair game not rigged. 

Of course, there will always be inevitable losses even in provable fair games. Because once you gamble, expect that you will gain more losses than wins, that’s the reality. However, when it comes to provable fair games, that means that the casino whether offline or online, is not allowed to cheat on its players because those games show transparency and reliability. If you think they are suspicious, you can actually question them and verify the outcome of the game.

[seleme]

This is complex content so I will explain my opinion in short and best possible way. If you keep using same client seed and do same bets on same games casinos can take advantage of stable variables to rig provably fairness. Shuffle puff is used to give player worst possible combinations and it will lead to more losses than green bets.  You are safe if you use various random client seeds and try different original games, IMHO.

[crzy]

I think you don't fully understand what provably fair means, and especially what it doesn't mean. Provably fair doesn't mean you won't lose money in the long run, it doesn't mean the house edge equals 0% or the RTP is 100%. In other words it doesn't mean the expected value is not negative. It just mean you can check the outcome and see if the casino has cheated you or not. So you shouldn't expect to not lose money by playing to these games, you will lose the same amount of money in the long run as a similar live game or a similar non provably fair game not rigged.  

Of course, there will always be inevitable losses even in provable fair games. Because once you gamble, expect that you will gain more losses than wins, that’s the reality. However, when it comes to provable fair games, that means that the casino whether offline or online, is not allowed to cheat on its players because those games show transparency and reliability. If you think they are suspicious, you can actually question them and verify the outcome of the game.

Probably fair games doesn’t mean you’ll always win, luck should still be on your side and expect losses as well. If there’s something wrong with the site, fairness can be computed but I doubt a simple gambler will do this thing. Live casinos are the same, you can’t expect more winnings on that though the chance of making profit is quiet high especially if you fully understand the game. This is gambling, it is still better to play on a fair site and have fun.

[Cryptomultiplier]

As the name implies, 'provably fair game', is a gambling game that checks and verifies an online casino’s fairness towards its players. It relinquishes the fear of most players that online gambling sites will rip them off. A player is supposed to have access to the games he/she has played by using hashtags.
I don't see how a provably fair game is meant to be fair, seeing that it is just a feature independent of a third party, mostly it is for those games that is played with cryptocurrency.
It is supposed to be a proof of work checking system by its own rules of course, in this case it shows results of a gambling game that can only be accessed by the user and non else, not even a third party.
https://www.softgamings.com/casino-glossary/provably-fair/

[jrrsparkles]

Do you have any proof to claim your statement of a person will win if they are going with fixed amount for 100 bets or so on?

I can be coincidence if you are come up with one or two examples but every time if same thing happens then you can accuse the game or the casino for not becoming completely fair with the results but as of now its complete non sense.

[rhomelmabini]

What's not random in provably fair game OP? If you know the technicality of it then you should investigate there not just because you think it's not fair on your behalf. What do you mean by random in streaks? Not trying to counter your opinion or observation but being random. Maybe moving on is just the best solution.

[seoincorporation]

Clientseed: this is provided by the browser you’re playing on;

The client seed is provided by the browser by default, but that can be manipulated by the user, that way the users can make the outcome of the bets fair and random.

you will always lose when you play provably fair games too long

I agree, the long run will make us lose, but that is not because the site is rigged, that's because the site has a house edge, and that small percentage on the side of the casino makes the casino win in the long run.

For example, if you bet $10 to 50% chance to win you will not get $20 back, you will get x1.98 if the house edge is 1%. So for each $10 you bet you get back $19.8, and that's why the casinos win in the long run.

[Lanatsa]

Do you have any proof to claim your statement of a person will win if they are going with fixed amount for 100 bets or so on?

I can be coincidence if you are come up with one or two examples but every time if same thing happens then you can accuse the game or the casino for not becoming completely fair with the results but as of now its complete non sense.

It doesnt really make any sense because people would really be thinking up that way on which in every 100 bets and betting even on 1% winning chance where they do really expect that they would be hitting that

1 winning bet or roll which is really that a very wrong perception or in speaking about chances which those people who do know wouldnt really be having this kind of approach towards on how provably fair means.

We can make out calculations but results or outcomes arent that determined due to random manner and there's no way that we could really make out assurance no matter how
we do make up things.

[TimeTeller]

This is complex content so I will explain my opinion in short and best possible way. If you keep using same client seed and do same bets on same games casinos can take advantage of stable variables to rig provably fairness. Shuffle puff is used to give player worst possible combinations and it will lead to more losses than green bets.  You are safe if you use various random client seeds and try different original games, IMHO.

Better yet, if you are in doubt with these games, then simply don't play.
If you think you are being taken advantage of and you are not enjoying the game, look for other games that you think will satisfy your desires.
So even after checking the provably fairness of the site and you are not satisfied, maybe, it is time to change your game or your site.
This kind of consideration is up to the gambler himself. The casino will put their provably fairness system in place and it is on you how to utilize it.

[Oasisman]

This is complex content so I will explain my opinion in short and best possible way. If you keep using same client seed and do same bets on same games casinos can take advantage of stable variables to rig provably fairness. Shuffle puff is used to give player worst possible combinations and it will lead to more losses than green bets.  You are safe if you use various random client seeds and try different original games, IMHO.

Indeed a complex algorithm, this is the the main reason why I am not a fan of some provably fair games in the casinos. Because, there are those rigged provably fair casinos and as for me, it may be difficult to spot which one is legit and which one is not (regardless of it's popularity and where their reputations stands). So, I'd always root for sports betting.

[Quidat]

This is complex content so I will explain my opinion in short and best possible way. If you keep using same client seed and do same bets on same games casinos can take advantage of stable variables to rig provably fairness. Shuffle puff is used to give player worst possible combinations and it will lead to more losses than green bets.  You are safe if you use various random client seeds and try different original games, IMHO.

Indeed a complex algorithm, this is the the main reason why I am not a fan of some provably fair games in the casinos. Because, there are those rigged provably fair casinos and as for me, it may be difficult to spot which one is legit and which one is not (regardless of it's popularity and where their reputations stands). So, I'd always root for sports betting.

When you are losing then it would be impossible for you not to say up into your mind "arent these things totally fair?" its a very common question in mind specially when you are in a situation where you had bust all of your balance in a snap.Just like you on which im not really a fan on seeing and checking those long hex of numbers and letters just to make myself that convinced that they are fair.
Most sites do really show off about verifying those bet rolls but im not really that paying up attention whether they are really that fair or honest or not.
So its up to someone and its better to stick with those known and reputable ones to save up your time.

[livingfree]

When you are losing then it would be impossible for you not to say up into your mind "arent these things totally fair?" its a very common question in mind specially when you are in a situation where you had bust all of your balance in a snap.Just like you on which im not really a fan on seeing and checking those long hex of numbers and letters just to make myself that convinced that they are fair.
Most sites do really show off about verifying those bet rolls but im not really that paying up attention whether they are really that fair or honest or not.

And that's why they can be verifiable to remove that doubt if they're legit or not. But, it's true that whenever we're losing, we think of anything negative for which we also accuse if the provably fair from the casino we've lost is fair or not.

So its up to someone and its better to stick with those known and reputable ones to save up your time.

That's one approach so that you won't doubt if the provably fair games are literally fair. Just go with the ones that have been known in the community to avoid any suspecting whenever you're not doing well.

[ethereumhunter]

When you are losing then it would be impossible for you not to say up into your mind "arent these things totally fair?" its a very common question in mind specially when you are in a situation where you had bust all of your balance in a snap.Just like you on which im not really a fan on seeing and checking those long hex of numbers and letters just to make myself that convinced that they are fair.
Most sites do really show off about verifying those bet rolls but im not really that paying up attention whether they are really that fair or honest or not.
So its up to someone and its better to stick with those known and reputable ones to save up your time.

When we experience defeat, sometimes we will think that the casino is cheating on us so we experience that defeat. But actually, we have made mistakes and are not trying to prevent them from happening. But they can still research whether it is really fair or if there is cheating but it takes time to find out the truth. And it's better for us to just play gambling as usual without thinking about whether the casino is really fair or unfair because we will be obsessed with researching it and won't get the pleasure of gambling.

[Crypt0Gore]

Fair on the winning side of gambling or fair on the losing side? There is no such thing as Fair when gambling, if you want fairness then you are talking about winning over and over again so what's in for gambling companies when players are only winning?

There is no way you won't lose when gambling and fact are you will lose more than you win, this is how gambling platforms are designed.