NFTs in the Bitcoin blockchain - Ordinal Theory

[zeuner]

Considering the ongoing dispute about the usefulness of NFTs, it might be more reasonable to establish a robust layer 2 smart contract platform and let people decide themselves whether they want to use it for NFTs or something else.

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[larry_vw_1955]

Considering the ongoing dispute about the usefulness of NFTs, it might be more reasonable to establish a robust layer 2 smart contract platform and let people decide themselves whether they want to use it for NFTs or something else.

and where would the pictures of the monkeys be stored on this new layer 2 platform? you know, it's going to be really hard to educate people that have already been uploading monkeys using ordinals and loving it to settle for anything less than what they've been getting which is their monkey's stored on chain. ordinals hit the ground running and i just dont think anything could replace it especially if the monkeys are not being stored on chain...

[pooya87]

And I agree, it is naive to let time fix your problems, except that I do not think Ordinals are a problem, which is why I count on time to prove if they are worthy to stay on the blockchain, if you think they cause problems  then thats on you to fix them.

Considering how tokens and silly things like the Ordinals attack have never contributed to anything in the real world and have never provided any real utilities, it is obvious that nobody wants them except the gamblers who are making bets on anything they can. They might as well do it on highly volatile tokens that can see huge pumps and dumps.
If an alternative is provided to these gamblers, they won't hesitate to abandon the "Token Casino" in a blinking of an eye.

[philipma1957]

And I agree, it is naive to let time fix your problems, except that I do not think Ordinals are a problem, which is why I count on time to prove if they are worthy to stay on the blockchain, if you think they cause problems  then thats on you to fix them.

Considering how tokens and silly things like the Ordinals attack have never contributed to anything in the real world and have never provided any real utilities, it is obvious that nobody wants them except the gamblers who are making bets on anything they can. They might as well do it on highly volatile tokens that can see huge pumps and dumps.
If an alternative is provided to these gamblers, they won't hesitate to abandon the "Token Casino" in a blinking of an eye.

A lot of art sucks and has no utility in the real world.

What utility does the Mona Lisa have?
What utility does Andy Warhol's Campbell Soup lithographs have?

Tell you what if I gave you a painting from Picasso it has no utility.

[cryptosize]

And I agree, it is naive to let time fix your problems, except that I do not think Ordinals are a problem, which is why I count on time to prove if they are worthy to stay on the blockchain, if you think they cause problems  then thats on you to fix them.

Considering how tokens and silly things like the Ordinals attack have never contributed to anything in the real world and have never provided any real utilities, it is obvious that nobody wants them except the gamblers who are making bets on anything they can. They might as well do it on highly volatile tokens that can see huge pumps and dumps.
If an alternative is provided to these gamblers, they won't hesitate to abandon the "Token Casino" in a blinking of an eye.

A lot of art sucks and has no utility in the real world.

What utility does the Mona Lisa have?
What utility does Andy Warhol's Campbell Soup lithographs have?

Tell you what if I gave you a painting from Picasso it has no utility.

True.

Art is subjective.

[serveria.com]

And I agree, it is naive to let time fix your problems, except that I do not think Ordinals are a problem, which is why I count on time to prove if they are worthy to stay on the blockchain, if you think they cause problems  then thats on you to fix them.

Considering how tokens and silly things like the Ordinals attack have never contributed to anything in the real world and have never provided any real utilities, it is obvious that nobody wants them except the gamblers who are making bets on anything they can. They might as well do it on highly volatile tokens that can see huge pumps and dumps.
If an alternative is provided to these gamblers, they won't hesitate to abandon the "Token Casino" in a blinking of an eye.

A lot of art sucks and has no utility in the real world.

What utility does the Mona Lisa have?
What utility does Andy Warhol's Campbell Soup lithographs have?

Tell you what if I gave you a painting from Picasso it has no utility.

Yes, art has value and no utility. Mona Lisa has value in the meat world, but why would somebody want to create a digital copy and sell it? Try painting Mona Lisa and selling it as the real thing? Will be very hard to explain it to the cops... but why does everybody and his dog is selling digital copies of artworks? Ok not all NFTs are forgery but why they're trying to stick it into the blockchain? Art belongs in the museum, not on the blockchain... 

And all those kitty/monkey pics and Bitcoin chart screenshots? You call that art? They have no value whatsoever.

[larry_vw_1955]

And all those kitty/monkey pics and Bitcoin chart screenshots? You call that art? They have no value whatsoever.

i noticed that there seems to be a demand for inscriptions with low numbers like in the sub 5000. people doesn't even care what the picture is of. as long as the inscriptiion # is low enough they'll pay big money for it. like 0.2 bitcoin. i guess you can't really argue with that type of valuation since it is not subjective you can compare numbers and see which one is bigger and which one is smaller and if it's small enough that makes it valuable.

[Wind_FURY]

Change? I don't want any change. Please bring my empty mempool back! 

Stompix is correct, YOU want the change, not him, Ordinals are real, they are already in the blockchain, and no change is required to keep them there, on the other hand, a change is needed to ban them, so it's not like we are trying to convince you to let Ordinals in, they are already sitting on the couch, it's the folks who want them out of the house who are desperate for a change in the protocol, so his statement is perfectly stated.

Oh, and as for your little poll thread, please don't take that too seriously, the percentage of Bitcoin users who are going to see it rounded to a whole number will be zero, the only way to find out is to wait a few years and see, if Ordinals stay alive it means enough people wanted them - if they die, it means the opposite, simple free-market capitalism.

I believe it will be like altcoins/shitcoins/NFTs, which developers built the tools for users, the investors/traders were incentivized by the development of a market to buy/sell, and the gathering of people behind each project that become "communities".

There's a high possibility that if the market for NFTs in the Bitcoin blockchain can incentivize developers and traders to stay and profit as much as they can profit from NFTs in the Ethereum blockchain, then they will come back especially if it's cheaper/more reliable to use the Bitcoin blockchain.

[larry_vw_1955]

blockchain.com is dealing with the illegal images issue by putting a "report" button next to the pictures of the nft. i guess that solves the problem. if someone reports it and they agree it is a bad image, they can just take it down. off their website anyway. maybe that's good enough.

[pooya87]

And I agree, it is naive to let time fix your problems, except that I do not think Ordinals are a problem, which is why I count on time to prove if they are worthy to stay on the blockchain, if you think they cause problems  then thats on you to fix them.

Considering how tokens and silly things like the Ordinals attack have never contributed to anything in the real world and have never provided any real utilities, it is obvious that nobody wants them except the gamblers who are making bets on anything they can. They might as well do it on highly volatile tokens that can see huge pumps and dumps.
If an alternative is provided to these gamblers, they won't hesitate to abandon the "Token Casino" in a blinking of an eye.

A lot of art sucks and has no utility in the real world.

What utility does the Mona Lisa have?
What utility does Andy Warhol's Campbell Soup lithographs have?

Tell you what if I gave you a painting from Picasso it has no utility.

Your arguments make no sense!

For starters the tokens created on token platforms are not the art itself. It is basically a link to a centralized platform (eg. a website) that stores that so called art. So your last argument (the last line) is like saying "I give you the word Picasso which I wrote on a piece of paper and that has utility"!
I too can write the word "Picasso" on paper and sell it to a million people but that doesn't mean millions of people are now owners of Picasso paintings. lol

Secondly when we are talking about bitcoin we are talking about abuse of a payment system so it has nothing to do with art or its utility or value.

[Wind_FURY]

blockchain.com is dealing with the illegal images issue by putting a "report" button next to the pictures of the nft. i guess that solves the problem. if someone reports it and they agree it is a bad image, they can just take it down. off their website anyway. maybe that's good enough.

That's a "solution", although a laughable solution.

A silver-lining for the incentivized demand in dick picks and fart sounds in the Bitcoin blockchain, it will solve the problem of "what would happen to the miners if all the coins are mined out", and the long term security of the network. There probably won't be users in the future who would be happy to pay high fees for a coffee-transaction, but there would be users who would be happy paying for high fees to trade their dick pics and fart sounds.

That's just a mere observation/shower thought. I'm not starting a debate.

[stompix]

blockchain.com is dealing with the illegal images issue by putting a "report" button next to the pictures of the nft. i guess that solves the problem. if someone reports it and they agree it is a bad image, they can just take it down. off their website anyway. maybe that's good enough.

But this way they actually encourage ordinals, by displaying the image in the first place when other blockchain explorers don't.
If the trend continues and others do the same it will just fuel the rush more and more, we saw previously spam from addresses when blockchain.info (at that time) allowed labeling, sending hundreds of transactions worth a few satoshis to most known addresses, to the biggest holders just to advertise their name.

Anyhow, money keeps flowing, they kept getting minted and services like the blockchain above keep encouraging it.

~

I did start a poll thread, please drop by and leave your vote! 

Not really the votes you imagined, isn't it? 6/6 and 2? Seems like the "we" is on its way to a minority.
Btw, I didn't vote in that poll since you simply asked the wrong questions!
I'm against banning ordinals, but this doesn't change the fact that I do believe they are some stupid monkey jpeg farts.

[serveria.com]

Not really the votes you imagined, isn't it? 6/6 and 2? Seems like the "we" is on its way to a minority.
Btw, I didn't vote in that poll since you simply asked the wrong questions!
I'm against banning ordinals, but this doesn't change the fact that I do believe they are some stupid monkey jpeg farts.

Not sure what you mean. I didn't imagine any results as you're saying, I just wanted to find out what the situation is like. I don't want some fake, biased results I even invited ordinals fans to participate in order for the poll to be more correct. 

Unfortunately, too few people participated so it's unclear so far what the situation is like in real life.

As to the "wrong" questions, this is my poll and I'm asking questions and I'm not sure why you're judging me? Create your own with "right" questions, I'll be happy if we'll get a clearer image of what's going on from that.

[larry_vw_1955]

But this way they actually encourage ordinals, by displaying the image in the first place when other blockchain explorers don't.

Anyhow, money keeps flowing, they kept getting minted and services like the blockchain above keep encouraging it.

well i think the bigger issue is that by incorporating these nfts into their blockchain explorer website, it will make people think that these images are part of bitcoin's core protocol and thus supported by it on purpose which couldn't really be further from the truth...

have to dyor, caveat emptor before buying those nfts so you don't get duped...

[zeuner]

Considering the ongoing dispute about the usefulness of NFTs, it might be more reasonable to establish a robust layer 2 smart contract platform and let people decide themselves whether they want to use it for NFTs or something else.

and where would the pictures of the monkeys be stored on this new layer 2 platform? you know, it's going to be really hard to educate people that have already been uploading monkeys using ordinals and loving it to settle for anything less than what they've been getting which is their monkey's stored on chain. ordinals hit the ground running and i just dont think anything could replace it especially if the monkeys are not being stored on chain...

Well, I guess these things are kind of self-regulating. People spam the chain with monkeys until it becomes unusable. Price drops. People move on. Or more likely it won't go that far because before that, transaction fees bring people back to the ground.

Not saying ordinals as a concept are useless. They could prove useful to democratize Bitcoin, e.g. by letting people boycott sats from miners that employ policies they don't like. But using that concept to push for more content being put on-chain seems counterintuitive in presence of all the progress made to reduce the burden on the chain.

[larry_vw_1955]

Well, I guess these things are kind of self-regulating. People spam the chain with monkeys until it becomes unusable. Price drops. People move on. Or more likely it won't go that far because before that, transaction fees bring people back to the ground.

until gullible people stop being made, there will always be someone wanting to sell monkeys to them. on bitcoin or any other blockchain. so far it doesn't show any signs of slowing down. probably it will hit 1 million monkeys before the end of summer. probably alot sooner! you can actually count the number of monkeys on bitcoin. you can't really do that on any other blockchain so people love that.

[pooya87]

Well, I guess these things are kind of self-regulating. People spam the chain with monkeys until it becomes unusable. Price drops. People move on. Or more likely it won't go that far because before that, transaction fees bring people back to the ground.

History proves this to be fallacy. For example ICOs are widely known to be scams, yet they are not dead yet and people are still being scammed under the same name or alternative names (ICO, IDO, IBO, IEO, ITO, STO, DeFi, NFT).

They could prove useful to democratize Bitcoin, e.g. by letting people boycott sats from miners that employ policies they don't like.

That is called censorship, besides it has nothing to do with Ordinals Attack. You should try to first learn what this attack is and how it works.

But using that concept to push for more content being put on-chain seems counterintuitive in presence of all the progress made to reduce the burden on the chain.

Bottom line is no matter how a small group of people swing this, Ordinals is an exploit since it is using it in a way that is should not be used, ergo it is categorized as an attack on bitcoin.

[larry_vw_1955]

Bottom line is no matter how a small group of people swing this, Ordinals is an exploit since it is using it in a way that is should not be used, ergo it is categorized as an attack on bitcoin.

you and franky seem to be one of the few people that has a backbone about this issue and standing up against it so good on you pooya 

[Wind_FURY]

Bottom line is no matter how a small group of people swing this, Ordinals is an exploit since it is using it in a way that is should not be used, ergo it is categorized as an attack on bitcoin.

That's merely an opinion, and I respect it, but technically it's wrong because an "exploit" in computing is an actual attack that takes advantage of a vulnerability in a computing system. Ordinals is neither an attack, nor Taproot has a vulnerability. Newbies are reading our posts, let's not spread misinformation.

Do I like NFT onchain in the Bitcoin blockchain? No. Do I support Ordinals? No. Do I think Ordinals can be utilized to attack the network? Yes, but let's not gaslight the people.

[serveria.com]

Just a little observation: this ordinals madness is still going on and it's going strong, today I tried to transfer around $70-80 and had to pay for it around $1.30 in fees which is a lot I think. It's around x10 from I'm used to pay for such transactions before ordinals. The worst part is that I feel I'm paying not the miners, not the Bitcoin devs but some random teen creating billions of monkey pics hoping to get rich quickly (and I can do nothing about it). That's a pretty shitty feeling if you ask me.