New HW wallet announced: COLDCARD Q1

[DaveF]

New product coming 'soon' from coldcard

https://coldcard.com/docs/coldcard-q1
https://twitter.com/COLDCARDwallet/status/1623698350481760259




Looks to be interesting. Lets see how it really turns out.
Basically a MK4 cold card with a larger screen and real keyboard and a few other features but the underlying hardware is the same.
And where the price really winds up in the end. It's $200 pre-order. Who knows if it will actually stay that way.

-Dave

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[dkbit98]

Looks to be interesting. Lets see how it really turns out.
Basically a MK4 cold card with a larger screen and real keyboard and a few other features but the underlying hardware is the same.
And where the price really winds up in the end. It's $200 pre-order. Who knows if it will actually stay that way.

I thought this was some kind of Blackberry joke first, but then I remembered it was not April 1st.
It's obvious to me they are concerned with their main competition Passport wallet, so they decided to go with this phone look direction instead of old calculator style, but having 3xAAA batteries is a big mistake in my opinion.
Similar thing with batteries was done by Keystone essentials and Passport wallet first edition, and it didn't work very well for both of them.
Good thing to see that this year is going to be very interesting for hardware wallets, now we have Coldcard Q1, and new Keystone and Trezor should also come out.

[witcher_sense]

As saying goes, "everything new is well-forgotten old." New Coldcard Q1 and good old Nokia E61 look almost identical, except that with the former you won't be able to make a call:


Source: https://www.trustedreviews.com/reviews/nokia-e61

QWERTY Keyboard: ideal for long BIP-39 passphrases

As if it justifies increasing the size of the device by four times.

[DaveF]

I thought this was some kind of Blackberry joke first, but then I remembered it was not April 1st.

Well they are both Canadian companies. You never know the engineers might have been sharing a Molson and some Timbits and decided to swap ideas.

IF and that is a big IF, the power circuit is done properly using 3 standard AAA batteries is not a big deal. Also, it still allows for USB power so even if that is bad you can still power up the device the old way too.

Lets see how the final product comes out and if they still keep the open public hardware schematics like they did with the other models.

-Dave

[m2017]

Looks like a large screen calculator or gameboy with lots of buttons.

I will add useful information for future buyers:

"Use promo code CKBTC to get 5% off your purchase when you pay in Bitcoin".

"Free shipping on orders of $499 or more!"

Source link: _{https://store.coinkite.com/store/cc-q1}

[DireWolfM14]

New product coming 'soon' from coldcard

I saw that article in Bitcoin Magazine this morning also, and was pleased to see Coinkite moving in the direction of QR scanners.  The price to reserve one isn't bad either, and I notice the price of the Mk4 has gone down a little bit as well.  I reckon once the Q1 is in production the price will likely go up a bit.

I'm not sure if I want to spring for yet another hardware wallet just yet, I'm developing quite a collection as it is.  Although I do think I'll keep an eye on the development of this product like and likely will buy the second generation.

[zherbert]

I am quite flattered by Coldcard's new direction; it certainly seems like a direct response to our 2021 Passport Founder's Edition.

One interesting thing we noticed is that it's about 4x6 inches, almost an inch thick (you can do the estimation yourself knowing the screen is 3.2 inches diagonal). I think many users will be surprised by the sheer size of the device. It's certainly not pocketable.

Additionally, I think I found the QR scanner part they are using. This means the QR scanner is essentially a standalone black box computer running proprietary code. It also means that there will be no viewfinder on the Q1 screen: https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/Embedded-1D-2D-Image-Barcode-Scanner_62478427468.html?spm=a2700.galleryofferlist.normal_offer.d_title.2e971000ZaPAEz&s=p

[AverageGlabella]

Looks like a calculator I had many years ago. I like that coldcard has normal batteries that you can find anywhere and replace them. I do not like sealed units that have special batteries which you would need to either break the sealed unit or send it back to the company to replace batteries. These batteries they are using will always be available and I know I can leave my hardware wallet in storage for 20 years and I will find some of these batteries if the batteries have died. NFC communication is my biggest worry I am not a fan of NFC I think it makes devices less secure and if someone gets into your house or where you are storing your hardware wallet they might not even need to physically touch it and could wave a another NFC communication device to interact with the wallet. I wish this was optional I do not even have NFC on my phone because I do not like the tech. I like that we have dual sd cards but what would be the use of having 2 sd cards in the device at the same time?

[dkbit98]

I am quite flattered by Coldcard's new direction; it certainly seems like a direct response to our 2021 Passport Founder's Edition.

They are even repeating the exact same mistake you did with triple A batteries, and that back design for Q1 is really ugly in my opinnion.
I am almost certain we are going to see ColdCard Q2 after this, that will have similar batteries like you are using in current Passport device

One interesting thing we noticed is that it's about 4x6 inches, almost an inch thick (you can do the estimation yourself knowing the screen is 3.2 inches diagonal). I think many users will be surprised by the sheer size of the device. It's certainly not pocketable.

Did they release any dimensions for ColdCard Q1?
It's bet if they can release how it looks when someone holds it in hand, but in their defense I would have to say that most modern smartphones are far from being small and ''pocketable''.
I don't like this direction at all, but people like big screens (that crack easy).

Additionally, I think I found the QR scanner part they are using. This means the QR scanner is essentially a standalone black box computer running proprietary code. It also means that there will be no viewfinder on the Q1 screen: https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/Embedded-1D-2D-Image-Barcode-Scanner_62478427468.html?spm=a2700.galleryofferlist.normal_offer.d_title.2e971000ZaPAEz&s=p

Admit that you came back in bitcointalk forum, after being triggered by release of new ColdCard Q1... I found your conflict really amuzing, can't wait for NVK to join the party soon and talk more about QR code scanner and device dimensions.
Speaking about code, Coldcard doens't care at all about being open source, so it' doesn't matter f they use propriety code.
In their defense again, secure element you are using in Passport is also not open source and it has security issues, that is why it was outdated by manufacturer

[DaveF]

I don't like this direction at all, but people like big screens (that crack easy).

Makes you wonder if the cost and weight of a more durable screen on a device like this matters as much as on a phone.

If you have a lot of funds stored on the wallet secured by it, IMO your hardware wallet should be locked in your desk / safe / wherever and pulled out when you need to move them. And you have the seed backed up securely someplace else anyway.

If you have smaller amounts, then getting the screen broken is an annoyance since you do have it out and use it day to day, but the seed it still elsewhere.

Additionally, I think I found the QR scanner part they are using. This means the QR scanner is essentially a standalone black box computer running proprietary code. It also means that there will be no viewfinder on the Q1 screen: https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/Embedded-1D-2D-Image-Barcode-Scanner_62478427468.html?spm=a2700.galleryofferlist.normal_offer.d_title.2e971000ZaPAEz&s=p

Does anyone make their own camera modules? There was actually a discussion here a while ago about that and vulnerabilities with them.

In their defense again, secure element you are using in Passport is also not open source and it has security issues, that is why it was outdated by manufacturer

What a lot more wallets need, and other then the keystone I don't know of any, is a 'self destruct' when taken apart so you can't attack them by taking them apart and getting to the SE. BUT the other side of that is you can't take them apart to fix them either.

-Dave

[dkbit98]

Makes you wonder if the cost and weight of a more durable screen on a device like this matters as much as on a phone.

I was  actually talking about smartphones, I don't like what they are turning into
I could understand bigger screen if hardware wallet was designed like Keystone or like upcoming 1inch wallet that have gorilla glass protection.
Using very very large size hardware wallets I can't really understand, especially if they are thick like a brick.

If you have a lot of funds stored on the wallet secured by it, IMO your hardware wallet should be locked in your desk / safe / wherever and pulled out when you need to move them. And you have the seed backed up securely someplace else anyway.

Most of the people probably keep hardware wallets at home, but in some cases you need to travel and cross border with them.
My thinking is that credit card style hardware wallets is ideal for this situations, not big brick you carry in your big pocket.

What a lot more wallets need, and other then the keystone I don't know of any, is a 'self destruct' when taken apart so you can't attack them by taking them apart and getting to the SE. BUT the other side of that is you can't take them apart to fix them either.

Maybe, but than you would have to trust manufacturer they are telling the truth about self-destruction.
Mnay times it's just a security theater like in case with Safepal, and I remember people managed to easily bypass Cobo (now Keystone) self-destruction mechnism.

[SFR10]

with a larger screen

In addition to that, it comes with a higher resolution and a colored screen.

• but the underlying hardware is the same.
  

  Last night, they mentioned in a podcast that "there's still a possibility that they might add a different brand secure element to Q1 ^[8:10]".
  

It's certainly not pocketable.

Personally, I think this is one of its advantages.

NFC communication is my biggest worry

"Behind the batteries, there are two little cutouts to the PCB and by scraping the one that's for NFC ^{[the other one is for USB data]}, it permanently disables it ^[6:53]".

I like that we have dual sd cards but what would be the use of having 2 sd cards in the device at the same time?

• Dual slots means you can keep unsigned and signed transactions on different cards. Copying files and keeping dual backups is easier now.

[DaveF]

They even include flashlight beside the camera, it's small neat addition for rare-case where you have poor lightning on your room. But i find it's weird they choose to give big gap between each keyboard button.

100% guess but it's probably an off the shelf part with a little bit of tweaking.
I don't know the cost of having one designed and built but I am sure taking one that exists and doing a little custom lettering on a couple of the keys has to be cheaper.

Last night, they mentioned in a podcast that "there's still a possibility that they might add a different brand secure element to Q1 ^[8:10]".

That annoys the crap out of me. You are taking pre-orders and have not finalized the design.

At this point if you are selling me something with published specs I should get what you said.

I don't care if it *might* even be better. Perhaps I wanted that SE for some reason.

-Dave

[SFR10]

That annoys the crap out of me. You are taking pre-orders and have not finalized the design.

At this point if you are selling me something with published specs I should get what you said.

I don't care if it *might* even be better. Perhaps I wanted that SE for some reason.

I think I chose the wrong set of words to portray the situation yesterday ^{[my bad]}... They might add "another" SE ^{[from a different brand]} on top of the existing ones that are present in Mk4, so it might end up having three SEs, but I also agree that they should've finalized the design first.
^{- They also mentioned the same thing (three SEs) "is also part of the process for Mk5".}

[DaveF]

That annoys the crap out of me. You are taking pre-orders and have not finalized the design.

At this point if you are selling me something with published specs I should get what you said.

I don't care if it *might* even be better. Perhaps I wanted that SE for some reason.

I think I chose the wrong set of words to portray the situation yesterday ^{[my bad]}... They might add "another" SE ^{[from a different brand]} on top of the existing ones that are present in Mk4, so it might end up having three SEs, but I also agree that they should've finalized the design first.
^{- They also mentioned the same thing (three SEs) "is also part of the process for Mk5".}

I watched it after I posted but never went back and edited my post, the point that we both agree on is they are selling somthing that never mind being build or tested is still being designed.

If you are a NEW company and need the funds to launch your 1st product or perhaps even your 2nd I can deal with an early pre order. For people who have been doing it this long sorry....no.

I can see taking a few dollars as a hold my space in line deposit to attempt to gauge how many they need to build in the 1st run, but beyond that it's just a money grab.

-Dave

[dkbit98]

It's $59 cheaper than passport HW wallet. But since Coinkite store mention "Batteries & USB cable not included", passport has better offer for those who consider cost of 3x AAA battery.

They started doing similar strategies like smartphones that don't ship chargers in package anymore, and I can't find information if microSD cards are included or not.
I don't know any other wallet that don't ship with USB cable and I hope this won't be the new trend, but I guess everyone has some old cable from smartphones.

For anyone who wants to sea size comparison of new Coldcard Q1 with older device and laptops, I found one interesting phone they posted.
This device is very large in size and I don't think this can fit any normal pockets... just look how tiny mk4 is below

That annoys the crap out of me. You are taking pre-orders and have not finalized the design.

Someone asked for them to turn on device so we can see how screen will look.... they said it's impossible to turn it on right now, so it's basically just a dummy device riggt now.
I think adding additional closed source secure element is nothing more than security theater, and there is no real benefit compared to using only one secure element and main chip.

I think I chose the wrong set of words to portray the situation yesterday ^{[my bad]}... They might add "another" SE ^{[from a different brand]} on top of the existing ones that are present in Mk4, so it might end up having three SEs, but I also agree that they should've finalized the design first.
^{- They also mentioned the same thing (three SEs) "is also part of the process for Mk5".}

So stupid... security circus that does (almost) nothing, except increasing production cost  

[sad-error]

They started doing similar strategies like smartphones that don't ship chargers in package anymore, and I can't find information if microSD cards are included or not.
I don't know any other wallet that don't ship with USB cable and I hope this won't be the new trend, but I guess everyone has some old cable from smartphones.

I could not disagree more. Most of people already have those, probably, and even if not I don't see why you could not buy these separately. Imho there's no need to endlessly litter the planet with these when (at least in my experience) they mostly just end up in the bin.

[dkbit98]

I could not disagree more. Most of people already have those, probably, and even if not I don't see why you could not buy these separately. Imho there's no need to endlessly litter the planet with these when (at least in my experience) they mostly just end up in the bin.

Oh I see... you are one of those guys who is going to ''save the planet'' by paying more money for chargers and cables, sorry but I won't fall for that scam
We are talking about brand new hardware wallet here, and I am certainly won't pay more money to Coldcard for their special cables, and I am sure they are going to sell them separately with batteries as accessories.

But few smartphone brand include poor quality USB cable and some people use/store their USB cable carelessly, So i feel a bit annoyed they expect customer have USB cable with acceptable quality when $199 no longer in cheap category for HW wallet.

And they forgot many people still have microUSB cables for their phones, but I guess that doesn't matter...

[sad-error]

Oh I see... you are one of those guys who is going to ''save the planet'' by paying more money for chargers and cables, sorry but I won't fall for that scam

no, I just don't like useless parts that end up in the trash. But you do you. 🤷‍♂️

We are talking about brand new hardware wallet here, and I am certainly won't pay more money to Coldcard for their special cables, and I am sure they are going to sell them separately with batteries as accessories.

it's usb-c, it's quite the standard these days.

[Welsh]

We need to progress past triple A's I think, and establish a slightly better, at least bigger capacity battery. I've used 18650s for a lot of things, and they function decently well for most things. Aren't as common as your double A's, and triple A's though. However, they aren't some specialised hardware, and can be picked up relatively cheaply, and easily from a variety of places.

it's usb-c, it's quite the standard these days.

It's really the only standard that should exist. I'm pretty sure that Europe recently passed a law that Apple has to convert to USB-C before a specific date, and that would also apply to any other manufacturers that want to sell their product in Europe. USB-A, and mini USB ships have definitely sailed, but as soon as hardware wallets start bringing in their own special cables, they'll lose customers.

Everyone has a USB-C lying around at this point, and they allow decent data transfer, and charging speeds. So, they should be the standard.