How to deal with shitcoiners without being harsh about reality.

[sha420hashcollision]

[context: I started out WAY too open minded about crypto shitcoins and now I feel like I am trapped in shitcoin hell and everyone around me is also]

I am in a difficult position. I feel more or less mentally scammed by tons of shitcoin producers in the space, there are some that are just putrid garbage like ICP which I was stupid enough to buy at one point.
There are things that seem to look like ponzi-schemes made BY ponzi-schemers FOR ponzi-schemers aka Hex token.
There are "DAOs" who instead of being decentralized are ran by like 5 dudes, one of which is Omar Danani who rugpulled peoples life savings off QuadrigaCX and was imprisoned for it aka Wonderland.
The spectrum goes on though and you get to the "Top 10" stuff like polkadot, cardano, ethereum, etc...
Now you can say "sir you are a moron for even thinking about touching that garbage" and you would be technically correct, however I have become aware that the situation being revealed to me is much deeper than how it affected me in the past, and actually is a systemic risk for how it will affect other people in the future.
I for the most part have realized this risk in my own portfolio recently following FTX, I am committed now more than I ever have been to Bitcoin.
However many of my friends are pretty firmly caught in the idea that their shitcoin is going to somehow outperform bitcoin. There is of course nuance to this but for this matter we will leave it at that. Most of them are exposed to bitcoin in some way but (rather delusionally) proclaim that the specific project THEY are following will beat Bitcoin in some shape or form. Not to mention some of these are not even the "Top 10" for which I will specifically get into later. I don't know exactly how to NICELY tell my friends they are being delusional. How can I do this?
More recently I discovered that an online friend/co-worker, whom I don't know and just do some dev work for, is not only delusional about their favorite shitcoin but they think that Bitcoin has NO value...
You read that right, someone who likes ETHEREUM thinks bitcoin has no value, I mean is that just the pinnacle of delusion or what? The bloated software that desperately copied things from Bitcoin would make Bitcoin have no value...
Seriously that is what he claims to believe. It should come at no surprise that this guy literally cannot develop hello world in python if I gave him an hour to do so. He is not a developer yet he wants to make outrageous claims about the value of Bitcoin, it makes me sad honestly to see this level of delusion.
Because of this I feel compelled to IMMEDIATELY disconnect myself from any thing to do with this guy, he is not my friend so I don't really care about what he thinks about my opinion. But I do wonder, is it important for me to make a calm collected statement to him (and potentially a bunch of other shitcoiners) about the value of bitcoin and why it is important? Or will my efforts just go wasted, I am honestly tired of fighting for it and having people ignore what I say so I really would value peoples input on that.
These "Top 10" proof of stake bullshit coins are probably the worst of the worst, they not only take every opportunity to (without evidence) make claims that they are better in x way than bitcoin. Meanwhile they enforce ofac censorship: https://www.mevwatch.info/ (60 - 90% of the network already enforcing it). Spend tons of pre-mined money on social media campaigns to lie about their level of decentralization: IOHK making posts claiming to be 100% decentralized (context: the founder of cardano claiming that Cardano is decentralized, like satoshi nakomoto sticking around for 20 years putting his name on everything bitcoin selling tons of bitcoin and claiming it is decentralized) [ https://heraldsheets.com/cardano-ada-is-now-100-decentralized/ ] They also kiss up to the SEC[ https://www.forbes.com/sites/stevenehrlich/2022/11/08/crypto-project-polkadots-three-year-engagement-with-the-sec-leaves-it-in-regulatory-limbo/?sh=5671b45cccf1 ] and PROBABLY (be honest with yourself) bribe those guys.
So let me know how I should deal with the several shitcoin-addicts in my life.
-recoveringShitcoinAddict / Bitcoin-most-imalist  

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[mk4]

You don't even need to try so hard. Just politely tell them why you think what they're doing is a bad idea, and if they don't listen, then let them be. It's their money not yours. You don't necessarily need to force your opinions down their throats.

If they ended up being wrong, then good because they learned a valuable lesson. The last thing you'd want is them actually picking the right altcoins (though unlikely) that would've performed really well but they missed out just because you forced them to go with BTC.

[sha420hashcollision]

Alt-coins historically get MEGA outperformed by Bitcoin, I have dealt with TONS of alt-coins and so far it caused me to miss out on roughly 2k worth of value I would have achieved if I would have just held bitcoin. There is no worth to fragmenting people into these pieces of shit. You clearly just skipped all of the details I listed about WHY it's important.

[mk4]

Alt-coins historically get MEGA outperformed by Bitcoin, I have dealt with TONS of alt-coins and so far it caused me to miss out on roughly 2k worth of value I would have achieved if I would have just held bitcoin. There is no worth to fragmenting people into these pieces of shit. You clearly just skipped all of the details I listed about WHY it's important.

I never said that altcoins were the right play for everyone(or that your friend made the right decision for holding alts), because I also think that just holding BTC is the better option in a r/r basis for 95% of people. My point was just that it's not up to you what your friend wants to buy, even if you extremely disagree with his/her opinions.

[sha420hashcollision]

Right your point is still completely missing the point, which is that I did not ask and DO NOT CARE if you think I SHOULD or SHOULD NOT voice my opinion to my friends. I will do so. The question is HOW? If you cannot answer that then just shutup. The followup question for anyone who might care to actually provide a proper response, is if it is important to be nice to people who are not my friends about this issue. Is it important to set a reputation as a calm collected Bitcoiner or is it all just anarchy and should I instill the fear of Bitcoin into those who dare misjudge the power that they bestow in me?

[mk4]

Right your point is still completely missing the point, which is that I did not ask and DO NOT CARE if you think I SHOULD or SHOULD NOT voice my opinion to my friends. I will do so. The question is HOW? If you cannot answer that then just shutup.

Frankly, I already answered your question.

Just politely tell them why you think what they're doing is a bad idea, and if they don't listen, then let them be.

From what I've observed with your posts though, it's not necessarily that you want to voice your opinion — because there's definitely nothing wrong with that, and it looks like you've already tried talking your friend out of holding alts. It's just that you want to convince your friend to change his/her mind.

[sha420hashcollision]

YES I WANT TO CONVINCE MY FRIENDS NOT TO GET SCAMMED
WHAT ABOUT THAT IS WRONG?

[mk4]

YES I WANT TO CONVINCE MY FRIENDS NOT TO GET SCAMMED
WHAT ABOUT THAT IS WRONG?

Definitely nothing wrong with that. It's just that your friends are probably adults, and are responsible for their decisions. Props to you for making attempts for talking them out of a potentially bad trade/investment. But then again — their money, their decisions.

[rat03gopoh]

More recently I discovered that an online friend/co-worker, whom I don't know and just do some dev work for, is not only delusional about their favorite shitcoin but they think that Bitcoin has NO value...

I'd say "it's up to you and your altcoin", just show how much bitcoin market cap is right now how people value bitcoin so much over alts. Of the millions of bitcoin holders in the world, are 1000 of them not have a more smarter way of thinking than your online friend and how can they give bitcoin a value?

[jackg]

You could always find a top 10 list from a few years ago when things looked a lot different and see how comfortable they are with their investments then.

You could show them what happened in the months after eth went to 0.1 last time (a few years ago, perhaps before or around 2017).

I feel eth and a lot of the eth based alts are well overvalued and I don't know why devs had an obsession with making so many alt chains of one coin. There are altcoins, though, where this is the case that seem to have a large and thriving developer community so you might want to consider that too (shorter term holdings are a lot safer but still risky).

[Poker Player]

I simply don't deal with them. If they are so dumb as to play roulette instead of betting on a sure thing with Bitcoin, I don't bother to refute them. Time puts everything in its place.

Betting on shitcoins makes some sense if you know what you are doing with knowledge and diversification, but this is not the case for most retail investors.

Or if you are one of the creators or promoters of the coin.

I only hold Bitcoin and don't worry about the rest.

[sha420hashcollision]

You could always find a top 10 list from a few years ago when things looked a lot different and see how comfortable they are with their investments then.

You could show them what happened in the months after eth went to 0.1 last time (a few years ago, perhaps before or around 2017).

I feel eth and a lot of the eth based alts are well overvalued and I don't know why devs had an obsession with making so many alt chains of one coin. There are altcoins, though, where this is the case that seem to have a large and thriving developer community so you might want to consider that too (shorter term holdings are a lot safer but still risky).

Can you please detail for me what happened around 2017 with Eth?

[jackg]

Can you please detail for me what happened around 2017 with Eth?

Over the course of 7-8 months, eth went from reaching an ath with bitcoin of 0.156357 btc per eth in June 2017, by the end of December 2017, the price had reached a low of 0.023121. This is according to the data bitfinex gave tradingview at the time it happened. Afaik it got a lot worse on other exchanges too.

As if that wasn't it, the price took off again against btc to go over 0.12 just 2 months later (by the end of February 2018) before plunging even further dowards to a range of 0.017-0.04 until May 2021.

The fact technology has come to replace eth and it's still going strong says a lot for its community (I wouldn't call it good, I'd call it a lack of critical thinking).

[iv4n]

...
Can you please detail for me what happened around 2017 with Eth?

I remember 2014-15 and how many people screamed about how Ethereum is another ICO scam. And look where it's now...

...
The last thing you'd want is them actually picking the right altcoins (though unlikely) that would've performed really well but they missed out just because you forced them to go with BTC.

Nicely said! Many crazy things happened in the crypto space... even Doge reached $0.7 at some point. And I am sure we will see many more surprises in the future, so it's better to let friends lose some money than to blame you for missing a big hit! That always turns into something very ugly.

[vv181]

Dealing with such people requires a thorough patience. If you are up to that challenge, sometimes it is helpful if you adjust your thought to how their mode of thinking, by doing that, one might address how could they end up with some conclusion. If by any chance their thoughts have many logical inconsistencies and wrong comprehension of something, you can correct or inform them.

But, of course, it is not as simple as that. What I usually do is, beforehand, we should ask about their preference of how to learn and comprehend a piece of information, for example, by asking a question like, what proof or evidence makes someone able to comprehend things. Sometimes it works, sometimes it's not. The point is, if it is worth to achieve, constantly readjusting how they behave might help.

[sha420hashcollision]

...
Can you please detail for me what happened around 2017 with Eth?

I remember 2014-15 and how many people screamed about how Ethereum is another ICO scam. And look where it's now...

...
The last thing you'd want is them actually picking the right altcoins (though unlikely) that would've performed really well but they missed out just because you forced them to go with BTC.

Nicely said! Many crazy things happened in the crypto space... even Doge reached $0.7 at some point. And I am sure we will see many more surprises in the future, so it's better to let friends lose some money than to blame you for missing a big hit! That always turns into something very ugly.

Ethereum clearly is a scam, they operate in extremely scammy ways that no Bitcoiner would ever support. By supporting Ethereum you are supporting a centralized insider controlled censorship enforcing funnel money to the 1% coin. The point is not the speculative price the point is NOT BEING AN UNETHICAL SCAMMER.

[DeathAngel]

You can lead a horse to water but you can’t make it drink, as the old saying goes. You can advise people, you might even make a big effort trying to explain & help people you care about but you can’t babysit people.

Sometimes you just have to let people live & die by their sword, make their own decisions on what they invest in. It’s hard enough controlling your own investments than to worry about what other people do with their money.

[sha420hashcollision]

You can lead a horse to water but you can’t make it drink, as the old saying goes. You can advise people, you might even make a big effort trying to explain & help people you care about but you can’t babysit people.

Sometimes you just have to let people live & die by their sword, make their own decisions on what they invest in. It’s hard enough controlling your own investments than to worry about what other people do with their money.

Can we have more confidence though? lets be constructive about this dillema. Shitcoiners succeed in pushing people to buy their shit, there is no reason we cannot do a better job with a legitimate currency.

[wxa7115]

Can we have more confidence though? lets be constructive about this dillema. Shitcoiners succeed in pushing people to buy their shit, there is no reason we cannot do a better job with a legitimate currency.

The problem you and all of us which at some point tried to discourage someone else from investing in a scam in any market is that those scammers can lie all they want while we only have the truth.

And the truth can be very bitter while lies can be very sweet, and we see examples of this all the time on even more important scenarios, like those which are diagnosed with a terminal disease and they are willing to believe that a scammer can cure them, those which join cults and so on, so it speaks nicely of you that you are trying to help your friends but you need to prepare yourself for the very real possibility they are not going to listen to you.

[sha420hashcollision]

Can we have more confidence though? lets be constructive about this dillema. Shitcoiners succeed in pushing people to buy their shit, there is no reason we cannot do a better job with a legitimate currency.

The problem you and all of us which at some point tried to discourage someone else from investing in a scam in any market is that those scammers can lie all they want while we only have the truth.

And the truth can be very bitter while lies can be very sweet, and we see examples of this all the time on even more important scenarios, like those which are diagnosed with a terminal disease and they are willing to believe that a scammer can cure them, those which join cults and so on, so it speaks nicely of you that you are trying to help your friends but you need to prepare yourself for the very real possibility they are not going to listen to you.

Am I being delusional for thinking I can change their mind in an actionable way?