Foundation Passport Official Thread

[satscraper]

Foundation has just released[1] quite a considerable upgrade regarding their firmware version (they went directly to v1.3.0 (they were on v1.1.0)
[1]https://foundationdevices.com/2023/07/envoy-version-1-3-0-is-now-live/
[2]https://azte.co/
[3]https://bitcoiner.guide/azteco/

You meant they released update regarding Envoy rather that firmware that runs on their devices. I have just checked their official download page for firmware - it remains the same -  

Envoy is mobile app that accompanies Passport device.

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[foundationdvcs]

Just wanted to drop a quick note to let you all know that Passport is officially back in stock today after the crazy sellout in May!

Great time to get one for family or friends, and we've included some minor revisions to improve the keypad and microSD tray in this production run as well thanks to excellent feedback from many of you in our fantastic community.

foundationdevices.com/passport

We will also be announcing a unique new beta program for Passport firmware with some awesome incentives later today, so keep an eye out for that!

[Pmalek]

We will also be announcing a unique new beta program for Passport firmware with some awesome incentives later today, so keep an eye out for that!

I am guessing you need beta testers who will be inspecting and working with upcoming firmware versions and reporting their findings and bugs. Even though Passport is an airgapped hardware wallet, everyone interested in beta testing should probably wipe their devices clean before installing the beta software to avoid any potential problems happening to their coins. Generating a new seed and new wallets with little bit of BTC inside would be my way of conducting any tests required.

[foundationdvcs]

Join our Envoy and Passport Early Access Rewards Program & Earn Bitcoin!

👉 Be the first to report any reproducible issue for Passport or Envoy beta releases and get a 10k Satoshi bounty in Bitcoin!

🔍 How to Participate

1. Test the beta releases for Passport firmware or Envoy app.
2. Report issues on Github.
3. All issues (the first time they are reported) are eligible for the 10k Satoshi reward.
4. Foundation team members will validate the issues for eligibility.
5. Rewards sent directly to your provided Bitcoin address or Lightning invoice.

Join the community, help us improve, and get rewarded in Bitcoin for your valuable contributions! 🎉

Learn more in our full blog post:

https://foundationdevices.com/2023/08/announcing-our-early-access-rewards-program/

P.S. -- We'll also be offering the top contributors to the program early access to future hardware products we create, with more details on that aspect of the program to come. 👀

[RickDeckard]

Join our Envoy and Passport Early Access Rewards Program & Earn Bitcoin!

👉 Be the first to report any reproducible issue for Passport or Envoy beta releases and get a 10k Satoshi bounty in Bitcoin!
(...)
P.S. -- We'll also be offering the top contributors to the program early access to future hardware products we create, with more details on that aspect of the program to come. 👀

I think that having this kind of program is always beneficial to any company - It allows scrutiny and incentivizes the community to really dig into your releases to search for any potential flaw, earning some sats in the meantime. Congratulations on launching such program (unfortunately I lack the knowledge to help you on this regard)!

As an additional note from my side, three particular names come to my mind that may be interested in such program (looking at you guys - @n0nce, @satscraper and @BlackHatCoiner).

EDIT: I do like this particular paragraph on your announcement[1]:

We have multiple new products in the works, and we can’t wait to watch each of you help us to build and improve as we bring freedom tech to more and more people around the globe. As one of the top contributors to our Early Access Rewards program, you’ll get the chance to test our new products for free as a thank you for your contributions in exchange for feedback and bug reports.

Is this enough to justify saying: HYPE? 
[1]https://foundationdevices.com/2023/08/announcing-our-early-access-rewards-program/

[Volgastallion]

Sorry if im being so noob on this but, im not a professional in cyber-security.

I read your thread, and when i see you are using Sd memories, i have to say its one of the most corrupted things on tecnology. And im not talking about corupted by hacking or something, im talking about, i remember when the cellphones still use the Sd your archives can become corrupeted by no reason,i lost a lots of old photos saved on the Sd, so why if the data to unlock the wallet get corrupted?

Or im missunderstanding everything?

Thanks for your answers.

[dkbit98]

Join our Envoy and Passport Early Access Rewards Program & Earn Bitcoin!

Can people test and report bugs only for Envoy app even if they don't own a Passport device?

I read your thread, and when i see you are using Sd memories, i have to say its one of the most corrupted things on tecnology. And im not talking about corupted by hacking or something, im talking about, i remember when the cellphones still use the Sd your archives can become corrupeted by no reason,i lost a lots of old photos saved on the Sd, so why if the data to unlock the wallet get corrupted?

I think they are using industrial grade micro sd card that are like night & day compared to regular consumer garbage sd cards.
Anyway, you shouldn't really only on sd cards, you should always have backup phrase in multiple places, written on paper or even better on stainless steel plates or washers.

[foundationdvcs]

Join our Envoy and Passport Early Access Rewards Program & Earn Bitcoin!

👉 Be the first to report any reproducible issue for Passport or Envoy beta releases and get a 10k Satoshi bounty in Bitcoin!
(...)
P.S. -- We'll also be offering the top contributors to the program early access to future hardware products we create, with more details on that aspect of the program to come. 👀

I think that having this kind of program is always beneficial to any company - It allows scrutiny and incentivizes the community to really dig into your releases to search for any potential flaw, earning some sats in the meantime. Congratulations on launching such program (unfortunately I lack the knowledge to help you on this regard)!

As an additional note from my side, three particular names come to my mind that may be interested in such program (looking at you guys - @n0nce, @satscraper and @BlackHatCoiner).

EDIT: I do like this particular paragraph on your announcement[1]:

We have multiple new products in the works, and we can’t wait to watch each of you help us to build and improve as we bring freedom tech to more and more people around the globe. As one of the top contributors to our Early Access Rewards program, you’ll get the chance to test our new products for free as a thank you for your contributions in exchange for feedback and bug reports.

Is this enough to justify saying: HYPE? 
[1]https://foundationdevices.com/2023/08/announcing-our-early-access-rewards-program/

Hype is pretty accurate IMO  Our team's 3D printers have been brrr'ing non-stop for the past few months with prototypes...

As for the beta program, we're very hopeful this will help balance out the incentives behind community members testing our releases alongside of us, as well as simply make the process of open-source development more exciting for the non-devs out there. Lots to test in each release, and likely quite a bit of Bitcoin up for grabs with each one as well!

Join our Envoy and Passport Early Access Rewards Program & Earn Bitcoin!

Can people test and report bugs only for Envoy app even if they don't own a Passport device?

Oh, absolutely! Ideally we will have far more Envoy users than Passport users due to it's functionality as an easy-to-use Bitcoin mobile wallet, and would love testers with or without Passport. If you have a Passport there is obviously more functionality to test out, but the majority of the growth in the app planned is on the mobile side that anyone with a smartphone can test out.

...so why if the data to unlock the wallet get corrupted?

Or im missunderstanding everything?

Thanks for your answers.

@dkbit98 hit the nail on the head here, the microSD cards in use here are MILES apart from the old, cheap, low-quality cards we're all used to from early cell phones. These are high-quality, industrial-grade cards that have much better read-write longevity as well as "on the shelf" longevity.

But even if your microSD card fails, Passport would continue to be fully functional.

As for backups, while encrypted backups are written to microSD, you can always copy those files practically anywhere you want (just don't put them with your backup PIN code!) as they're an encrypted blob. It's also almost always best to have a separate backup of the seed words themselves, often on steel or similar as @dkbit98 also mentioned!

If you have any other more specific questions I'm always happy to answer them

[Volgastallion]

I read your thread, and when i see you are using Sd memories, i have to say its one of the most corrupted things on tecnology. And im not talking about corupted by hacking or something, im talking about, i remember when the cellphones still use the Sd your archives can become corrupeted by no reason,i lost a lots of old photos saved on the Sd, so why if the data to unlock the wallet get corrupted?

I think they are using industrial grade micro sd card that are like night & day compared to regular consumer garbage sd cards.
Anyway, you shouldn't really only on sd cards, you should always have backup phrase in multiple places, written on paper or even better on stainless steel plates or washers.

Well that its ok, but i still think it can be risky thinking on long term. A lot of years ago, i buy some high quality SD cards, and ended up not being so much diferent than cheap ones, only in speed terms they were far better. I know like you said industrial ones can be much better and diferent but i have my doubts after losing some very important memories thanks to corrupted Sdcards files.

...so why if the data to unlock the wallet get corrupted?

Or im missunderstanding everything?

Thanks for your answers.

@dkbit98 hit the nail on the head here, the microSD cards in use here are MILES apart from the old, cheap, low-quality cards we're all used to from early cell phones. These are high-quality, industrial-grade cards that have much better read-write longevity as well as "on the shelf" longevity.

But even if your microSD card fails, Passport would continue to be fully functional.

As for backups, while encrypted backups are written to microSD, you can always copy those files practically anywhere you want (just don't put them with your backup PIN code!) as they're an encrypted blob. It's also almost always best to have a separate backup of the seed words themselves, often on steel or similar as @dkbit98 also mentioned!

If you have any other more specific questions I'm always happy to answer them

Well, thanks for your answer, well yes you can copy but im somehow paranoic when i start to make copies of all the things, but well its a problem of myself.

[Pmalek]

Our team's 3D printers have been brrr'ing non-stop for the past few months with prototypes...

Can you reveal a bit more information about what you are working on? Are we talking about brand new Foundation Passport hardware wallets software and hardware-wise, or more simpler modifications to the existing version like a lite variant that will be made of lower quality materials and be cheaper? Or perhaps the company is releasing something different entirely... 

[RickDeckard]

Well that its ok, but i still think it can be risky thinking on long term. A lot of years ago, i buy some high quality SD cards, and ended up not being so much diferent than cheap ones, only in speed terms they were far better. I know like you said industrial ones can be much better and diferent but i have my doubts after losing some very important memories thanks to corrupted Sdcards files.

If you are interested in learning more about the SD card that is bundled with Passport, you can check out the datasheet here[1]. The NAND Flash Technology that the card uses is MLC (Multi-level cell) which is the second best option (the first one would be Single-level cell (SLC)):

MLC NAND
Pro: Cheaper than SLC - Con: Slower and less endurance than SLC

Multi-level cell (MLC) NAND stores multiple bits per cell, although the term MLC typically equates to 2 bits per cell. MLC has a higher data density than SLC so can therefore be produced in larger capacities. MLC has a good combination of price, performance, and endurance. However, MLC is more sensitive to data errors with 10,000 P/E cycles and therefore has a lower endurance compared to SLC. MLC is usually found in consumer products where endurance is less important.

[1]https://www.mouser.com/datasheet/2/669/SanDisk_02052018_SDSDAF3_SDSDQAF3-1285144.pdf
[2]https://www.kingston.com/unitedkingdom/en/blog/pc-performance/difference-between-slc-mlc-tlc-3d-nand

[satscraper]

I think they are using industrial grade micro sd card that are like night & day compared to regular consumer garbage sd cards.

Yeah, my Passport 2 is equipped with SanDisk Industrial XI 8 GB micro card which  is marked as Industrial but if you look at its  NAND Flash Tech and Endurance (main specs that differ cards) it is closer to Commercial grade (or one may call it Industrial MLC) rather than Industrial one, which is sigh-induced situation in this case.

https://documents.westerndigital.com/content/dam/doc-library/en_us/assets/public/western-digital/product/embedded-flash/industrial-sd-microsd-series/WDC_SanDisk_Industrial_SD_microSD_ProdBrief_020918.pdf

[Volgastallion]

Well that its ok, but i still think it can be risky thinking on long term. A lot of years ago, i buy some high quality SD cards, and ended up not being so much diferent than cheap ones, only in speed terms they were far better. I know like you said industrial ones can be much better and diferent but i have my doubts after losing some very important memories thanks to corrupted Sdcards files.

If you are interested in learning more about the SD card that is bundled with Passport, you can check out the datasheet here[1]. The NAND Flash Technology that the card uses is MLC (Multi-level cell) which is the second best option (the first one would be Single-level cell (SLC)):

Thanks man for sharing this info, im really impresed by the diference in the last one (QLC), welll anyways thanks all for your answer and i hope the best to the passport team, and also thank them for being active here and answer the questions of the comunity.

[dkbit98]

Hype is pretty accurate IMO   Our team's 3D printers have been brrr'ing non-stop for the past few months with prototypes...

Prototypes of new devices?
That sounds interesting and I know people who would be interested in participating some kind of beta testing program.
Even sharing .stl files for 3d printing and option to assemble our own devices would be a good idea, something like DIY Passport

Oh, absolutely! Ideally we will have far more Envoy users than Passport users due to it's functionality as an easy-to-use Bitcoin mobile wallet, and would love testers with or without Passport. If you have a Passport there is obviously more functionality to test out, but the majority of the growth in the app planned is on the mobile side that anyone with a smartphone can test out.

Nice.
I see lot of people having a problem to find good open source mobile wallet for Bitcoin, so I will download and test how Envoy works.
In general I can count on fingers all Android Bitcoin wallets, and most of them are not good.
Good mobile wallet should be open source, with option to run full node and option to connect with multiple brand of hardware wallets, or to work standalone.

Yeah, my Passport 2 is equipped with SanDisk Industrial XI 8 GB micro card which  is marked as Industrial but if you look at its  NAND Flash Tech and Endurance (main specs that differ cards) it is closer to Commercial grade (or one may call it Industrial MLC) rather than Industrial one, which is sigh-induced situation in this case.

But you won't use that sd-card all the time, not even near like you would use it in camera, phones or other devices, so chances of getting it corrupted in next few years is minimal to none (unless you operate centralized exchange cold storage).

[RickDeckard]

Prototypes of new devices?
That sounds interesting and I know people who would be interested in participating some kind of beta testing program.
Even sharing .stl files for 3d printing and option to assemble our own devices would be a good idea, something like DIY Passport

Foundation Devices already does this - If you go here[1] you'll find all the files that are used to produce Passport Batch 2. These files are specially handy if you need to replace a specific part of your device (or if you prefer to create a more custom look for it).
[1]https://github.com/Foundation-Devices/passport2-hardware/tree/main/mechanical/STEP%20Files

[satscraper]

Prototypes of new devices?
That sounds interesting and I know people who would be interested in participating some kind of beta testing program.
Even sharing .stl files for 3d printing and option to assemble our own devices would be a good idea, something like DIY Passport

I have already entertained thoughts of  DIY Passport. After studying their docs I have understood that the most challenging for me part of  such DIY project would be  the making of multilayer printed circuit board rather than 3d printing. For me, it would be hard, even impossible, to make at home.

Sure I could  order its manufacture on the side but it would  cost.

[n0nce]

Join our Envoy and Passport Early Access Rewards Program & Earn Bitcoin!

 Be the first to report any reproducible issue for Passport or Envoy beta releases and get a 10k Satoshi bounty in Bitcoin!

That sounds great! I usually try beta releases anyways, so I'll make sure to create GitHub issues whenever I find some bug or issue, from now on.
How about more hardware based issues / bugs / vulnerabilities?

In general I can count on fingers all Android Bitcoin wallets, and most of them are not good.
Good mobile wallet should be open source, with option to run full node and option to connect with multiple brand of hardware wallets, or to work standalone.

I've tried Envoy and it connects to my electrs server running on my Bitcoin node over Tor without issues.
One thing I'd appreciate is some kind of (hidden) log view where you can see whether / if it is stuck somewhere, e.g. when connecting to Tor, connecting to the server or something else. Just to make troubleshooting easier.

I have already entertained thoughts of  DIY Passport. After studying their docs I have understood that the most challenging for me part of  such DIY project would be  the making of multilayer printed circuit board rather than 3d printing. For me, it would be hard, even impossible, to make at home.

You should be able to just upload the Gerber files to a PCB manufacturer like PCBWay and get them to assemble the board for you, as well. Then print the housing, add keypad, camera and screen and put it all together.

I do think it's worth it to just buy the completed product from Foundation though.

[dkbit98]

Foundation Devices already does this - If you go here[1] you'll find all the files that are used to produce Passport Batch 2. These files are specially handy if you need to replace a specific part of your device (or if you prefer to create a more custom look for it).

I know about this, but I think it would be cool to order all parts in DIY kit package and assemble them at home, except parts that can be 3d printed anywhere.
This should reduce price significantly and I bet people would experiment more with printing custom cases.

I have already entertained thoughts of  DIY Passport. After studying their docs I have understood that the most challenging for me part of  such DIY project would be  the making of multilayer printed circuit board rather than 3d printing. For me, it would be hard, even impossible, to make at home.

If you are talking about PCB, this part can be ordered directly from Passport website, but I never made multilayer printed circuit board and I don't know how complicated this is.

I've tried Envoy and it connects to my electrs server running on my Bitcoin node over Tor without issues.

Do you know what is oldest Android version needed to run Envoy.
I tried on one older phone and I couldn't install it, and I even tried directly with .apk file, forced install but I could not open the app.

[NotATether]

I have already entertained thoughts of  DIY Passport. After studying their docs I have understood that the most challenging for me part of  such DIY project would be  the making of multilayer printed circuit board rather than 3d printing. For me, it would be hard, even impossible, to make at home.

You should be able to just upload the Gerber files to a PCB manufacturer like PCBWay and get them to assemble the board for you, as well. Then print the housing, add keypad, camera and screen and put it all together.

I don't think 3D printing works with electronic components. Except for maybe the case as dkbit98 hinted.

It seems that Foundation already provides the PCB designs so you don't have to worry about reconstructing it on that front - but how many people actually know how to connect the electronics together given the board? You'd basically have to be either an electronics engineer or a hobbyist to figure it out correctly.

[n0nce]

I think it would be cool to order all parts in DIY kit package and assemble them at home, except parts that can be 3d printed anywhere.
This should reduce price significantly ^{[emphasis mine]} and I bet people would experiment more with printing custom cases.

Cool? Yes. Cheaper? That's actually not always the case. I am no expert on product development, margins and so on, but I've experienced this as a customer once: a product which was offered as a fully assembled and DIY version, was cheaper to buy fully assembled.
I'm not sure if this is always the case, of course, as that was just one experience.

I imagine that it could also be a significant logistical overhead / nightmare to keep track of who bought a fully assembled, tested and QC'd device, who built it themselves, how to handle warranty cases, etc. to the point that any savings in assembly cost would be eaten up in the process.

If you are talking about PCB, this part can be ordered directly from Passport website, but I never made multilayer printed circuit board and I don't know how complicated this is.

Where's that?

Do you know what is oldest Android version needed to run Envoy.
I tried on one older phone and I couldn't install it, and I even tried directly with .apk file, forced install but I could not open the app.

I'm not sure, but according to their docs, Flutter apps should run on Android versions that support the API version 21 to 34:

Code:

Platform version    Supported
Android SDK 	    21-34

That corresponds to Android versions 5.0 and up.

Code:

Name                Version number(s)    API level         
Android Lollipop    5.0 – 5.0.2          21

How many people actually know how to connect the electronics together given the board? You'd basically have to be either an electronics engineer or a hobbyist to figure it out correctly.

That's all in the source files; since Passport is an open-source, open-hardware device. Although building one from scratch does certainly require some amount of skill.