Mempool full? Long transaction times + fees x10!

[franky1]

oh and yes i do agree there is like 12 ass-kissing wannabe fangirls of core on this forum that idolise these exploits and defend devs.. but are not successfully getting recruited into being their official PR team because they are still penny pinching for income via sig spamming or merit cycling each other

that sounds like a strange situation indeed. i'm assuming all 12 of them are pro-ordinals for sure. but maybe not? what's the benefit of being on the "PR team" do they get chocolate chip cookies or something?

blockstream and sister companies chaincode labs and brinks do not seed-fundraise hundreds of millions for nothing. most of the wannabe fangirls are not getting a share of promoting blockstream products because they are still penny pinching sig-spam crap for less than minimum wage of western countries
(if they were successfully paid in salary terms they would not need to be scraping the bottom of the income barrel for small income)

those in the merit cycle game get paid to rent their avatar out, again for less than minimum wage..

both of which shows they are not getting a satisfactory salary to not need to be penny pinching/advertising risky systems, scams and things that get people in trouble

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[Artemis3]

oh and yes i do agree there is like 12 ass-kissing wannabe fangirls of core on this forum that idolise these exploits and defend devs.. but are not successfully getting recruited into being their official PR team because they are still penny pinching for income via sig spamming or merit cycling each other

that sounds like a strange situation indeed. i'm assuming all 12 of them are pro-ordinals for sure. but maybe not? what's the benefit of being on the "PR team" do they get chocolate chip cookies or something?

I don't think all 12 are pro-spam. Its pointless to mention ordinals since that's only one of the spam sources. This is not just against ordinals, but the whole spam "ecosystem". Spam abuse was demonstrated publicly by them first in a large scale, that's their merit, devs doing nothing about it, is another matter...

And yes the people should know.

Lets just say my lightning experience was less than satisfactory, compared to a normal transaction, the layers of complexity for end users is a magnitude higher. I basically ended spending 5k sats to get a 10k sats tip in the end, and there were like 3 normal transactions involved, opening a channel, swapping because not enough funds, whatever. And guess what, those were affected by the current spam traffic situation. People can't just tip you a random amount like you can with a normal transaction, it mustn't exceed certain amount the person giving the tip is unaware of. One way was creating the invoice with the amount so it can warn you if its not enough with the channel you opened. Yeah, this is not Bitcoin...

[franky1]

yes there are many types of spam

the main types are:
spending every block where funds just go back to self.
some call it address hopping/tumblers where someone wants to create enough taint jumps to appear that their funds are not associated with the same wallet, even though its just movements done with the same wallet with over XX+ different addresses of that same wallet

many out many in
this is where someone spends like 10,000sat+ to make 100 outputs+ of 100sat+. and then spend said 100+utxo of 100sat+ to combine it back to 10,000sat+... and repeat
where its obviously not being done to pay 100+ random people. but done instead just to coinsplit-coinjoin

sending dust amounts
these are the transactions that send dust/useless amounts to famous addresses

bloat transactions
making large transactions that have no reason for being so large EG ordinal memes or op_returns that have nothing to do with ownership transfer and just about publishing dead weight data of no use for bitcoin

right now the most spammy situation we are dealing with is the ordinal meme spam

its not just having the bloat on the blockchain. its that at the PRE-BLOCK zero confirm relay. these bloated tx are filling mempools amd causing other transactions of low fee to get dropped by peoples mempools thus causing everyone else to pay more just to even get left in mempool and relayed around the network to eventually land in a block

[pooya87]

right now the most spammy situation we are dealing with is the ordinal meme spam

Referring to the Ordinals Attack as a "meme spam" is diminishing the attack and is very misleading. The Ordinals is not an attack because they are injecting "memes" into the blockchain, it is a spam because bitcoin blockchain is not a cloud storage service.

In other words even if they were publishing something like the cure for cancer on bitcoin blockchain using Ordinals Attack method, it still would have been a malicious attack.

[nutildah]

that sounds like a strange situation indeed. i'm assuming all 12 of them are pro-ordinals for sure. but maybe not?

I very much doubt this. Their opinions on the subject are probably far more nuanced than anybody posting here. Unlike us, they are taking time to consider all the ramifications of potential coding adjustments to counter "blockchain spam," or if any adjustments are necessary at all.

They are carefully weighing the pros and the cons of any potential changes instead of just mindlessly repeating their first impression opinion for the 40th time.

[Wind_FURY]

oh and yes i do agree there is like 12 ass-kissing wannabe fangirls of core on this forum that idolise these exploits and defend devs.. but are not successfully getting recruited into being their official PR team because they are still penny pinching for income via sig spamming or merit cycling each other

that sounds like a strange situation indeed. i'm assuming all 12 of them are pro-ordinals for sure. but maybe not? what's the benefit of being on the "PR team" do they get chocolate chip cookies or something?

 

Is that the new social drama? There are 12 "ass-kissing wannabe fangirls of Core" who are probably "Pro-Ordinals" too? That's confusing, because from the information I collected, the leading Core developers like Adam Back and Luke DashJr are anti-Ordinals. But no one really believes what franky101 posts unless you're a franky-fan-girl. Read his trust-rating.

[franky1]

windfury. grow up.
YOU know that since 2018 it was YOU and doomad that went crying to gmax when your sales pitches got  destroyed, which you lot didnt like.. which got the negative trust rating against me because you didnt like what i had to say.. and for 5 years you have been recruiting idiots into your echo chamber to keep stiring the social drama distractions.

so you and your forum daddy are the idiots that are now using your own actions to pretend im wrong because of YOU group saying im wrong previously.
you can only quote "franky is wrong because" where you then link your fanclub of echos just saying "franky is wrong because", but has never shown actual valid data, code, logic, math,stats that actually prove any point on your side


yet what i say can be backed up by code/blockdata ..
i find it foolish how after so many years you do not even bother to try to read code or blockdata to form opinions and instead you prefer to quote humans as your source where those you source are snake oil salesmen trying to push people off the network and weaken the network and make the network expensive and annoying to use

all of your desires and beleifs are only backed up by whatever doomad and his group told you and you are the idiot that follows him like a daddy where you lack the research of actual code/blockdata.

try to listen less to an idiot that makes you look like an idiot and finally take some time to do some research away from being a blind sheep that cries when you hear something you dont like, that makes your group look stupid

.....
fangirls of core is different to the corporate employer of devs and a dev that is no longer a maintainer of core.. so not sure why you are mentioning luke jr and adam back. as they are not hands on nor important anymore

i know you are a fan of them. but they are not involved in the day-to-day. heck luke Jr is making patches away from core github because he knows the actual maintainers will reject his proposals to include the patch internally within core


the current maintainers of core. is the group that are doing nothing to stop this crap... and rejecting any outside fixes being added to core.. and moderating out any discussion that may lead to diverting from their roadmap plans
and its their fans like your forum-daddy that are excited by it, your forum-daddy loves ordinals and loves moderating out any discussion that goes against the roadmap of central group, because it helps his schemes of making people hate using bitcoin so he can promote that people should use other networks.. and you know this

[larry_vw_1955]

I very much doubt this. Their opinions on the subject are probably far more nuanced than anybody posting here. Unlike us, they are taking time to consider all the ramifications of potential coding adjustments to counter "blockchain spam," or if any adjustments are necessary at all.

They are carefully weighing the pros and the cons of any potential changes instead of just mindlessly repeating their first impression opinion for the 40th time.

if you say so but so far i haven't heard a peep out of them at least here on this forum so they must be doing this under heavy secrecy... i just thought they didn't care about the issue at all.

[nutildah]

I very much doubt this. Their opinions on the subject are probably far more nuanced than anybody posting here. Unlike us, they are taking time to consider all the ramifications of potential coding adjustments to counter "blockchain spam," or if any adjustments are necessary at all.

They are carefully weighing the pros and the cons of any potential changes instead of just mindlessly repeating their first impression opinion for the 40th time.

if you say so but so far i haven't heard a peep out of them at least here on this forum so they must be doing this under heavy secrecy... i just thought they didn't care about the issue at all.

We disagree a lot of the time and that's fine, but one thing I like about you larry is you are willing to at least be reasonable. TBH I really don't know what they think about inscriptions, just seen a couple impartial murmurings from them about it on the mail list so far. But I do know our shadowy group of supercoders has been relatively successful in the past at shepherding Bitcoin development down a well-constructed path.

It will be really interesting to see what changes they propose/enact (if any) to combat inscription "spam."

This may surprise everybody but if they decide to somehow place new limitations on it, it wouldn't upset me.

[serveria.com]

I very much doubt this. Their opinions on the subject are probably far more nuanced than anybody posting here. Unlike us, they are taking time to consider all the ramifications of potential coding adjustments to counter "blockchain spam," or if any adjustments are necessary at all.

They are carefully weighing the pros and the cons of any potential changes instead of just mindlessly repeating their first impression opinion for the 40th time.

if you say so but so far i haven't heard a peep out of them at least here on this forum so they must be doing this under heavy secrecy... i just thought they didn't care about the issue at all.

We disagree a lot of the time and that's fine, but one thing I like about you larry is you are willing to at least be reasonable. TBH I really don't know what they think about inscriptions, just seen a couple impartial murmurings from them about it on the mail list so far. But I do know our shadowy group of supercoders has been relatively successful in the past at shepherding Bitcoin development down a well-constructed path.

It will be really interesting to see what changes they propose/enact (if any) to combat inscription "spam."

This may surprise everybody but if they decide to somehow place new limitations on it, it wouldn't upset me.

In fact, placing new limitations now would be great for everyone: normies would enjoy fast low-fee transactions and NFT freaks would finally get rich as the price of already minted ordinals would skyrocket. It's a win-win situation. 

[nutildah]

In fact, placing new limitations now would be great for everyone: normies would enjoy fast low-fee transactions and NFT freaks would finally get rich as the price of already minted ordinals would skyrocket. It's a win-win situation. 

Well there's already 637,000+ of them 

But assuredly a cap would retain some value for some of them.

Most of the rest will trend toward zero, cap or not.

And again, despite what anybody wants to believe, I'm not invested in any of it. Never inscribed, never bought, never sold, don't care. Its just been highly entertaining to watch.

[larry_vw_1955]

We disagree a lot of the time and that's fine, but one thing I like about you larry is you are willing to at least be reasonable.

i'm always willing to listen to well reasoned posts like yours have been. i don't know everything (clearly) but i do appreciate when someone like you takes their time to input what they can on a topic. it always helps.  

TBH I really don't know what they think about inscriptions, just seen a couple impartial murmurings from them about it on the mail list so far. But I do know our shadowy group of supercoders has been relatively successful in the past at shepherding Bitcoin development down a well-constructed path.

It will be really interesting to see what changes they propose/enact (if any) to combat inscription "spam."

This may surprise everybody but if they decide to somehow place new limitations on it, it wouldn't upset me.

i can't say i disagree. we'll have to trust that they know what the right thing to do is.

[Artemis3]

It will be really interesting to see what changes they propose/enact (if any) to combat inscription "spam."

This may surprise everybody but if they decide to somehow place new limitations on it, it wouldn't upset me.

Yes, this is what i want to see.


There is a new spammer, something BRC-20 which seems to be a type of smart contracts. So as we warned in February, things are getting worse. Like they said: "Anything hex will be uploaded, Ordinals paved the way". That's a honest spammer, that never cared about Bitcoin.

Time is ticking, spam is increasing...

[larry_vw_1955]

There is a new spammer, something BRC-20 which seems to be a type of smart contracts. So as we warned in February, things are getting worse.

can you give an example link to an inscription like this? just curious what is going on  

not gonna lie though apparently someone uploaded a video game as an ordinal some type of first person shooter. wonder how much space that took up. 

[Quidat]

Something is brewing in the Bitcoin world? For the last 2-3 days I can I witness slow transactions and huge fees. I got used to 1sat/byte transactions and they always get through so I sent a couple of sats to myself but you can't imagine how surprised I was when I saw my tx is ~75mb from tip! My wallet suggested a fee of 10sat/bytes! So, what's going on? Is this connected with that ordinals mumbo-jumbo? 

This isnt something new anymore and this could definitely happen on Bitcoin transaction where the entire network is really that clogged up.Transaction prioritized are to those who do set out higher fees
which miners would really be having no doubt on processing it first than into those who had set out 1sat/byte which is understandable. This is why if you dont really like on paying up huge fees
then it would really be just right that you should wait but if you are in a hurry on pushing up such transaction then you would be needing to pay up more fees.
Lets just accept this scalability issue of Bitcoin yet this had been the main issue ever since.

[pooya87]

This isnt something new anymore and this could definitely happen on Bitcoin transaction where the entire network is really that clogged up.
~
Lets just accept this scalability issue of Bitcoin yet this had been the main issue ever since.

This has nothing to do with scalability at all. In fact none of the major fee spikes in bitcoin history had anything to do with scalability. They have always happened because of spam attacks. For example the biggest and longest period in which fees went up and stayed up were in 2017 and it was mainly because of the largest spam attack against bitcoin network in its entire history.
Today we are seeing another form of spam attack hence the increased fees.

[Artemis3]

"Bitcoin stamps" joins the spam fest...

Quoting the Trust Machines spammer:

Every full Bitcoin node has no choice but to store Bitcoin Stamps as part of the network.

Because Bitcoin Stamps are made up of simple UTXOs, they are not prunable in the same way that OP_RETURN or Witness data is. They're basically impossible to filter out.

https://twitter.com/trustmachinesco/status/1643354099507683328


So there you have it. Not only they openly declare their intention to spam, they also challenge the developers...

I think it is about time we start a list of shame (spammers) so at least people know who is sabotaging Bitcoin.

[serveria.com]

"Bitcoin stamps" joins the spam fest...

Quoting the Trust Machines spammer:

Every full Bitcoin node has no choice but to store Bitcoin Stamps as part of the network.

Because Bitcoin Stamps are made up of simple UTXOs, they are not prunable in the same way that OP_RETURN or Witness data is. They're basically impossible to filter out.

https://twitter.com/trustmachinesco/status/1643354099507683328


So there you have it. Not only they openly declare their intention to spam, they also challenge the developers...

I think it is about time we start a list of shame (spammers) so at least people know who is sabotaging Bitcoin.

This is ridiculous! I can see incoming transactions with 15sat/byte, 21sat/byte even 25sat/byte fees! My last transaction between my wallets took 2-3 days and I had to bump fee 4 times! This new Bitcoin Stamps spam seems to have amplified the Ordinals spam. I wonder how soon core devs will start doing something to eliminate this spam. 

[Artemis3]

Metagood has also joined the spam attack against Bitcoin. "NFTs of jewelry eggs designed by Bugatti and Asprey worth 20k USD"...

[larry_vw_1955]

"Bitcoin stamps" joins the spam fest...

So there you have it. Not only they openly declare their intention to spam, they also challenge the developers...

i wouldn't worry about "stamps". no one is going to want to pay the huge fees to store any reasonable image on that crap. only thing you'll see there is pixellated junk. but yeah they want their monkeys being stored in the utxo set. how nice.  

i guess P2SH wasn't so great after all though...

funny how all this is supposed to be decentralized yet these bitcoin nft projects rely on .io websites or .com websites to showcase all the monkeys and if those websites went away, people would probably stop using them