Russia and others, move to use Yuan instead of dollar.

[DrBeer]

People can criticize Russia and China without praising USA, you guys are aware of that right? All I have seen here is people saying either good things about USA and bashing Russia/China duo, or people who deny "allegations" and do the reverse. I am sorry but it is obvious from the start that we are talking about three nations that face trouble. USA with their debt situation and house not being able to pass a simple law, they are doing f-k all right now and they are in shambles and they are terrible, I'll give them this, they have democracy at least, Russia and China definitely doesn't have that, impossible for them to have another ruler for now. So all in all I am guessing that we are looking at bunch of nations whose currencies all will get worse, every single one of them, all have their trouble, all have different reasons, but I wouldn't hold dollars, yuans or rubles as my investment, they will all go down, short them if I would against bitcoin for sure.

The only problem is that some people are trying to manipulate information. And they are trying to pass off as "worldwide de-dollarization" - China's attempt to get itself "yuan slaves" to export inflation and the problems of the Chinese economy to these very "fighters against dollars". And the United States... The United States, as always, will go through this "standard procedure" about its national debt, and no one will suffer. As some would really like, those who do not understand how the world economy works and works

It is POSSIBLE to get away from the dollar, but a simple question: why, and how to change it - baffles everyone. No, there are certainly fervent dreamers who call the yuan, the rupee, almost the ruble! But we understand that this is just a cynical joke

[1714682553]

1714682553

[1714682553]

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[be.open]

The only problem is that some people are trying to manipulate information. And they are trying to pass off as "worldwide de-dollarization" - China's attempt to get itself "yuan slaves" to export inflation and the problems of the Chinese economy to these very "fighters against dollars". And the United States... The United States, as always, will go through this "standard procedure" about its national debt, and no one will suffer. As some would really like, those who do not understand how the world economy works and works

Well, that is, when the United States exports inflation and the problems of its economy around the world, this is normal, but when China tries to do the same, it is wrong. Quod licet Jovi, non licet bovi, do I understand your train of thought correctly?

It is POSSIBLE to get away from the dollar, but a simple question: why, and how to change it - baffles everyone. No, there are certainly fervent dreamers who call the yuan, the rupee, almost the ruble! But we understand that this is just a cynical joke

I think it’s worth waiting for the BRICS summer summit, where some kind of solution to this issue should be announced in the form of a synthetic token with a proportional weight of all emerging economies in the alliance, or with a link to a unit of energy, or something like that. The other day, the head of the Central Bank of the Russian Federation, Nabiullina, visited a colleague in Iran, where they also negotiated the future architecture of financial interactions.

[DrBeer]

The only problem is that some people are trying to manipulate information. And they are trying to pass off as "worldwide de-dollarization" - China's attempt to get itself "yuan slaves" to export inflation and the problems of the Chinese economy to these very "fighters against dollars". And the United States... The United States, as always, will go through this "standard procedure" about its national debt, and no one will suffer. As some would really like, those who do not understand how the world economy works and works

Well, that is, when the United States exports inflation and the problems of its economy around the world, this is normal, but when China tries to do the same, it is wrong. Quod licet Jovi, non licet bovi, do I understand your train of thought correctly?

It is POSSIBLE to get away from the dollar, but a simple question: why, and how to change it - baffles everyone. No, there are certainly fervent dreamers who call the yuan, the rupee, almost the ruble! But we understand that this is just a cynical joke

I think it’s worth waiting for the BRICS summer summit, where some kind of solution to this issue should be announced in the form of a synthetic token with a proportional weight of all emerging economies in the alliance, or with a link to a unit of energy, or something like that. The other day, the head of the Central Bank of the Russian Federation, Nabiullina, visited a colleague in Iran, where they also negotiated the future architecture of financial interactions.

You are confusing, as the people say, "warm with soft"

In a sense, the US is of course exporting its inflation to the world. But this suits everyone and does not create problems for anyone. Moreover - due to the "smearing" of the problem - the dollar is the international reserve currency. And most importantly, giving the dollar the status of an international reserve currency had a completely different meaning! I'm sure you don't know, but you think that this is a conspiracy of "insidious imperialists"
And the story is this - at a time when the whole world was destabilized by the Second World War, it was necessary to become attached to something stable and liquid. At that time, Europe was in ruins, the leading economies were badly hit, and the only stable and secured currency was the dollar. Whether you like it or not. But that's the reality

And China has a primitive goal - to urgently save its economy by hanging its problems on its "partners", and build a monopolized channel for access to the dollar for these unfortunate people
Hope you feel the difference.

Nothing will happen about "waiting for the BRICS a bit"; China will forcibly pull the yuan for everyone, or some more cunning scheme, but so that these unfortunate fools give up the dollar and the opportunity to independently interact with the whole world is normal, because. In fact, no one needs the yuan, and the dollar is critically important to China! And China will attribute this binding "role" to itself

[coupable]

After reading many comments, I clearly noticed that there are actually people who think that the world is able to abandon the use of the dollar, and I mean here the countries that are waging an undeclared economic war against the United States.  
The strength of the dollar is not only in its adoption mainly in commercial exchanges, but also because it derives its strength from the centralization of the dollar in the world.  And as evidence is that those countries that want to get rid of the power of the dollar in their exchanges cannot get rid of their reserves in hard currency, of which the dollar represents the bulk.

that is true, let's be realistic with the world situation. there may be good alternatives, but it will be long before the USD will be replaced by another fiat currency. what you can think of when it comes to crypto is like this - can bitcoin be replaced by another alt anytime soon? i don't think so. how much more of the USD where it has been decades and decades that it is used as the primary reserve for the global economy. i don't know what other people are thinking but should see the bigger picture here.

Just as it was not easy for America to establish the power of the dollar, which requires terrorizing the world with two nuclear bombs, it will never be easy to remove that power from the dollar unless we remove America's dominant power over the world.

[Sithara007]

Just as it was not easy for America to establish the power of the dollar, which requires terrorizing the world with two nuclear bombs, it will never be easy to remove that power from the dollar unless we remove America's dominant power over the world.
In a statement to one of the economists, he stated that the United States does not pay attention to all attempts to get rid of the dollar because it knows that it is almost impossible (at least now) for them to do so, since international exchanges require both parties to be satisfied with the currency used, which cannot happen with Most countries in the world that do not want to replace the dollar.

I can agree. Exchange rates for most of the other fiat currencies, and even for cryptocurrencies such as Bitcoin is measured with respect to the United States Dollar. Even after so many years trying to replace USD as the global trade currency, China and it's allies have not managed to even take the share of CNY to double digit points. The argument is why USD should be replaced with CNY, when the latter is an even more manipulated fiat currency? All the negatives being said about the US Dollar are applicable to the Chinese Yuan as well.

[be.open]

The only problem is that some people are trying to manipulate information. And they are trying to pass off as "worldwide de-dollarization" - China's attempt to get itself "yuan slaves" to export inflation and the problems of the Chinese economy to these very "fighters against dollars". And the United States... The United States, as always, will go through this "standard procedure" about its national debt, and no one will suffer. As some would really like, those who do not understand how the world economy works and works

Well, that is, when the United States exports inflation and the problems of its economy around the world, this is normal, but when China tries to do the same, it is wrong. Quod licet Jovi, non licet bovi, do I understand your train of thought correctly?

It is POSSIBLE to get away from the dollar, but a simple question: why, and how to change it - baffles everyone. No, there are certainly fervent dreamers who call the yuan, the rupee, almost the ruble! But we understand that this is just a cynical joke

I think it’s worth waiting for the BRICS summer summit, where some kind of solution to this issue should be announced in the form of a synthetic token with a proportional weight of all emerging economies in the alliance, or with a link to a unit of energy, or something like that. The other day, the head of the Central Bank of the Russian Federation, Nabiullina, visited a colleague in Iran, where they also negotiated the future architecture of financial interactions.

You are confusing, as the people say, "warm with soft"

In a sense, the US is of course exporting its inflation to the world. But this suits everyone and does not create problems for anyone. Moreover - due to the "smearing" of the problem - the dollar is the international reserve currency. And most importantly, giving the dollar the status of an international reserve currency had a completely different meaning! I'm sure you don't know, but you think that this is a conspiracy of "insidious imperialists"

In a sense? In direct. And no, this does not suit everyone, and it creates problems for many people in the world.

And the story is this - at a time when the whole world was destabilized by the Second World War, it was necessary to become attached to something stable and liquid. At that time, Europe was in ruins, the leading economies were badly hit, and the only stable and secured currency was the dollar. Whether you like it or not. But that's the reality

That was the reality 70 years ago, a lot has changed since then. And the US has no one to blame but itself, look at the growth chart of US debt - recently it reflects the inadequacy and immoderation of the US in matters of consumption and fiscal discipline. The United States lives beyond its means, in fact they are engaged in robbery of the whole world. Here is the current reality.

And China has a primitive goal - to urgently save its economy by hanging its problems on its "partners", and build a monopolized channel for access to the dollar for these unfortunate people
Hope you feel the difference.

Nothing will happen about "waiting for the BRICS a bit"; China will forcibly pull the yuan for everyone, or some more cunning scheme, but so that these unfortunate fools give up the dollar and the opportunity to independently interact with the whole world is normal, because. In fact, no one needs the yuan, and the dollar is critically important to China! And China will attribute this binding "role" to itself

We'll see. A simple replacement of the dollar with the yuan is not a solution to the problem, in the case of Russia it is a forced and temporary solution due to economic sanctions.

[pooya87]

The argument is why USD should be replaced with CNY, when the latter is an even more manipulated fiat currency? All the negatives being said about the US Dollar are applicable to the Chinese Yuan as well.

This is exactly why the world is not replacing dollar with yuan, they are replacing dollar with bilateral agreements between countries to use other means of payment. For example among the ASEAN countries they have come up with agreements and infrastructure to use their own respective currencies (not USD and not CNY). Similarly if a country from ASEAN wants to trade with China they use similar bilateral agreements and use CNY and when they want to trade with US they use USD.
Either case, dollar is being abandoned at large.

[DrBeer]

...
1.In a sense? In direct. And no, this does not suit everyone, and it creates problems for many people in the world.
2.That was the reality 70 years ago, a lot has changed since then. And the US has no one to blame but itself, look at the growth chart of US debt - recently it reflects the inadequacy and immoderation of the US in matters of consumption and fiscal discipline. The United States lives beyond its means, in fact they are engaged in robbery of the whole world. Here is the current reality.
3.We'll see. A simple replacement of the dollar with the yuan is not a solution to the problem, in the case of Russia it is a forced and temporary solution due to economic sanctions.

Thanks for the answer !

1.In a sense? Direct. And no, this does not suit everyone, and it creates problems for many people in the world.

Always, in response to such an answer, I ask one thing - give examples from real life, where, how and to whom did this create problems? Especially "for many people"?

2.That was the reality 70 years ago, a lot has changed since then. And the US has no one to blame but itself, look at the growth chart of US debt - recently it reflects the inadequacy and immoderation of the US in matters of consumption and fiscal discipline. The United States lives beyond its means, in fact they are engaged in robbery of the whole world. Here is the current reality.

About "look at their public debt" - this mantra has been around for many decades. Tell me - when was this "problem" unresolved? Or led to real problems? The answer is simple - NO. Here is the current reality.

3.We'll see. A simple replacement of the dollar with the yuan is not a solution to the problem, in the case of Russia it is a forced and temporary solution due to sanctions economic.

So what did Russia get in the end? Huge deposits of yuan that cannot be turned into a dollar? The fact is that the Russian economy does not need the yuan. The Russian economy needs the dollar and the euro. What is happening now is simply "the use of Russia's resources" by China, for its own good.

It's like it was with the rupee - oil was sold, gold was sold - but there were no dollars. Plus, billions more from deals "to circumvent sanctions" just disappeared somewhere (easily googled) ...

[Crypt0Gore]

Why do I still feel like this whole hate on USD won't work? I have nothing much to say about this plan but I don't see USD getting taking over by Yuan, if fee countries decide to turn their back on the US dollars what about the rest of the world? This is going to fail woefully on the long run.

[Ayers]

Why do I still feel like this whole hate on USD won't work? I have nothing much to say about this plan but I don't see USD getting taking over by Yuan, if fee countries decide to turn their back on the US dollars what about the rest of the world? This is going to fail woefully on the long run.

No one is saying that the yuan will dominate or beat the dollar. It's all about the replace and finding a way out of the USD dependency. I don't know how far the new alliance led by Russia and China will go in rebalancing the world's balance of power. But I believe nothing in this world can last and be at the top forever. There will come a time when the US and the USD will be replaced by something stronger, like how the US beat the UK to become the world hegemon. It's just a law of nature, and it's bound to happen.

[stompix]

Why do I still feel like this whole hate on USD won't work?

Because it has never happened at any point in history where just hate and no actual economic reason have been able to trigger the downfall of a currency that besides a few haters is still used and seen as trustable by the majority of the world and not just majority in population but majority when in comes to economical means?

And you can see the irony right now right here, just check the signature of those that each day take a swing at the $, all are getting paid according to the $ value, there is no campaign on this forum paying a fixed sum in yuans or rubles or rial or any other kind of toilet paper money.
But as it is with every propaganda it all stops when it's personal, shouting against the $ might be trendy might be cool or gather you a fanbase but in the the end, when it comes to the banknotes you want in your wallet it's good old $ and nothing more.

[asyakashi]

yeah this is very profitable for china. they will most likely be international money on a yuan basis. I think this has something to do with Russia's conflict with Europe so that the dollar does not want to be used by Russia for transactions. the most important thing is, if one day the yuan really above the dollar we will likely see China will hold the first position in world economic power.

[darkangel11]

yeah this is very profitable for china. they will most likely be international money on a yuan basis. I think this has something to do with Russia's conflict with Europe so that the dollar does not want to be used by Russia for transactions. the most important thing is, if one day the yuan really above the dollar we will likely see China will hold the first position in world economic power.

To be exact, Russia isn't in a conflict with Europe. It's in a conflict with most of the world. Check which countries are imposing sanctions on Russia. It's the whole G7, so also the US and Canada, and many other countries like Japan and South Korea. Russia has put itself in a large disadvantage by attacking Ukraine. So far it hasn't achieved any of its military goals and destroyed its deals with many powerful countries, like the gas deal with Europe.
It will continue to trade with China, but don't be fooled by their friendship. China doesn't want strong Russia, which is why it isn't helping with the war against Ukraine. The best possible outcome for China would be a prolonged conflict that bleeds out both Russia and the US.

[Japinat]

People can criticize Russia and China without praising USA, you guys are aware of that right? All I have seen here is people saying either good things about USA and bashing Russia/China duo, or people who deny "allegations" and do the reverse. I am sorry but it is obvious from the start that we are talking about three nations that face trouble. USA with their debt situation and house not being able to pass a simple law, they are doing f-k all right now and they are in shambles and they are terrible, I'll give them this, they have democracy at least, Russia and China definitely doesn't have that, impossible for them to have another ruler for now. So all in all I am guessing that we are looking at bunch of nations whose currencies all will get worse, every single one of them, all have their trouble, all have different reasons, but I wouldn't hold dollars, yuans or rubles as my investment, they will all go down, short them if I would against bitcoin for sure.

That is normal mate, it's not a really a big deal because everyone are just expressing their thoughts and opinions about the matter, and we cannot really blame them if they are blinded by the term "middle class" as they have their own reasons why they loved that term in the first place. But know this, they will get an eye opener sooner or later because I believe these things will slowly happen in the middle of quarter three and quarter four this year as transition is taking place.

They may have no idea at all as of now but soon they will know the situation they are facing, just let them be if they don't want to know about the truth. They chose to be in that situation and we cannot force them to prepare for what's coming. As of now, the use of Chinese Yuan in the international market is just a beginning and when the second phase will begin, USA will probably suffer more when the BRICS will successfully launch a new reserve currency.

[redwine49]

interesting to read this debate. This is about money right, everything is only made on paper.

long time ago there are paper money backed by gold. which one is it? the USD.
then everycurrency around the world used to follow USD.
after the United States terminated convertibility of the US dollar to gold in 1971
our money became free floating (inflation)

[molsewid]

yeah this is very profitable for china. they will most likely be international money on a yuan basis. I think this has something to do with Russia's conflict with Europe so that the dollar does not want to be used by Russia for transactions. the most important thing is, if one day the yuan really above the dollar we will likely see China will hold the first position in world economic power.

And maybe they realize that goods and materials are good in China so using Yuan will decrease the amount they needed to convert in order for them to buy those things. And I also believe it has to do with their issues with Europe or US. And yes, supporting Yuan from one of the biggest continent and powerful country will make China dominate among all other countries.

[nesty]

Russia and others move to use Yuan is maybe because of the trade war between the US and China which i think affected the stability of the dollar. China's growing economic influence to internationalize the Yuan had made it attractive as an alternative for countries seeking to diversify their currency reserves. I think it is also because of the continuous economic growth of China more countries are now doing business with them and most likely they are using Yuan for transactions.

[Renampun]

This is what could be referred to in international politics as power tussle in terms of international levels of analysis. Haven such two conflicting countries like China and Russia coming together based on mutual economic interest against a common rival the USA is one that could be very frustrating for the US dollar with the unambiguous leverage and advantage the likes of Russia, China, Iran and Saudi Arabia have come together to give to the Chinese Yuan. With Russia in the forefront bent on the use of the Chinese Yuan instead of the US dollar in their country and in all of it's transactions and trades settlements with Latin America, Africa and Asia countries.
https://www.wsj.com/articles/russia-turns-to-chinas-yuan-in-effort-to-ditch-the-dollar-a8111457

What does this new development make for the US economy and the US dollar in the coming days and years to come.
Give your personal opinion on this development!

they (USA) think that they are a superpower country and can dictate all countries in the world with their sanctions and threats. they think that other countries are not brave enough to be able to tackle them in a way that is brave enough. switching currency from usd to yuan in their trading is just their first step, surely BRICS alliance and many other countries that are fed up with American and USD domination will lean to Russia and China and their grand alliance and will come with new attacks on America and the west.

the west and america will definitely be upset about this and let's just wait for america and the west to play the victim and accuse china and russia and their allies of trying to play unfairly and pose a threat to global stability.

[Sithara007]

Russia and others move to use Yuan is maybe because of the trade war between the US and China which i think affected the stability of the dollar. China's growing economic influence to internationalize the Yuan had made it attractive as an alternative for countries seeking to diversify their currency reserves. I think it is also because of the continuous economic growth of China more countries are now doing business with them and most likely they are using Yuan for transactions.

I have doubts about this "growing economic influence" of China. As per data from 2022, Chinese Yuan is the 8th most traded currency in the world with a share of 2.16% (now compare that with 44.15% for the USD and 16.14% for the Euro). Even the Swiss France is ranked above Chinese Yuan. For those who want to replace the US Dollar, CNY is a good option. But then in terms of basics, CNY is weaker than the USD. It is being heavily manipulated by the Chinese government and other countries should be cautious while using it.

[lixer]

yeah this is very profitable for china. they will most likely be international money on a yuan basis. I think this has something to do with Russia's conflict with Europe so that the dollar does not want to be used by Russia for transactions. the most important thing is, if one day the yuan really above the dollar we will likely see China will hold the first position in world economic power.

To be exact, Russia isn't in a conflict with Europe. It's in a conflict with most of the world. Check which countries are imposing sanctions on Russia. It's the whole G7, so also the US and Canada, and many other countries like Japan and South Korea. Russia has put itself in a large disadvantage by attacking Ukraine. So far it hasn't achieved any of its military goals and destroyed its deals with many powerful countries, like the gas deal with Europe.
It will continue to trade with China, but don't be fooled by their friendship. China doesn't want strong Russia, which is why it isn't helping with the war against Ukraine. The best possible outcome for China would be a prolonged conflict that bleeds out both Russia and the US.

Well, I do agree with you, China would probably not want Russia to be more powerful than it and all these trades and everything are obviously not aimed at that, China might be helping Russia or making trades with them so that they keep it against the US and Europe and if China becomes successful in that, he will probably abandon the friendship too when required.

No country will have love for any other country apart from their own benefits that they can get from each other and that is why they make friendships, otherwise, if one could survive without the other, no one would even ask each other at all.