PeachBitcoin.com | P2P Bitcoin Exchange 🍑 #kycfree

[Peach Bitcoin]

Hey Bitcointalk!

I would like to introduce you to Peach, a mobile application that directly connects buyers and sellers of BTC. Bitcoin is winning, we believe we are part of the good people who wanna win with Bitcoin, and we want Peach, whose aim is make stacking sats p2p the standard, to be known.

Building a great product is cool, but it’s cooler if people actually use it.  

We want peach to learn from the user insights! We intend to strengthen our position in the p2p niche and want to start with Bitcointalk, moreover, we have already started some preparations, so we will announce ourselves in full force very soon! Please feel free to ask!

- https://twitter.com/peachbitcoin
- https://peachbitcoin.com/how-it-works/

[Peach Bitcoin]

I'll reserve this post in case I need extra space for an announcement. 

[icopress]

Steph, Welcome!

I am glad that you heeded my advice and turned your eyes towards mere mortals. 

I am sure that Peach will definitely become an excellent addition to those projects that are already presented on the forum.

Once again, welcome to Bitcointalk!

[Darker45]

Welcome to the forum!

It is good that you decided to officially introduce your product here. But even before you doing this, there has already been a discussion of your platform here. Although there are some who appreciate the way PeachBitcoin works, there are also those who are skeptical. For one, it is an issue to some that your app is closed-source.

You must understand that trust is not easily earned especially if there are security concerns raised. Perhaps you might want to spare some time and drop by the thread discussing your platform and respond to the legitimate issues raised.

[blue Snow]

Welcome to the forum,

Nice to see you here with the mobile platform where today almost people used it.

Is it possible to add our currency (IDR) to Supported payment methods? We have GoPay and OVO also, which I think those National Options payment is very popular in my country, and that possibly will bring Indonesia Customer comes to use your application.

And I hope the developer builds up to another platform like Windows, and immediately listed to another application like the Apple store. (it is still testfligth).

[Japinat]

Welcome to the forum!

We need more peer-to-peer (p2p) exchanges so that we can enjoy trading without KYC. I'm not quite familiar with the service, but I'll do some research and give it a try. The p2p exchange that I'm using now is Binance p2p, but I had to undergo a KYC for my account, so this one would be good to retain our privacy.

[icopress]

Just leaving this here.... (congratulations).

I guess after the Paxful incident, PeachBitcoin will become a gulliver very soon. 

[LeGaulois]

I shared more or less the same point in the french forum. After localbitcoins, paxful, and others, there is a big audience to grab.
With a correct business plan and a smart communication strategy, I won't be surprised if PeachBitcoin becomes bigger than Bisq and hodlhodl together. And I'm serious, the company has the potential and if everything is planned correctly, it can only work.
People working for the company must be motivated. I mean, it's always exciting to work for a company and take the challenge when you know it can work

I installed the application to use it. Very rarely I install something because I hate mobile phone, but PeachBitcoin is interesting

What surprised me is this tweet:
...
8000 app downloads, 5600 trades completed
...
 
Quite high for a begining, but at least it shows there is a demand

[Zwei]

Sheeeesh look that bitcoin 🍑

I tried to install the app using the "DOWNLOAD ON ANDROID" button, but it seems that either the URL is incorrect or the app has been removed from google play store?

[IIrik11]

i searched the app on google play store and it says:



btw, i searched for 'peach bitcoin' and 'peachbitcoin' as well.

both searches had similar results.

[Pmalek]

Forget about the Play Store. You can just download the app from the official website if you want to use it.
https://peachbitcoin.com/apk/

@Peach Bitcoin
I assume you are no longer in a beta stage? The first time I heard about the service, it was still being tested and not yet ready for massive adoption.
Can you give us some more stats about how things are going so far?

LeGaulois already mentioned 8.000 downloads and over 5.500 completed trades.
What about countries, currencies? Are there any geographical restrictions, and how many fiat currencies are supported? 

[Little Mouse]

What about countries, currencies? Are there any geographical restrictions, and how many fiat currencies are supported? 

They only support these currencies as they mentioned on their website- https://peachbitcoin.com/how-it-works/#:~:text=Supported%20Currencies
EUR
GBP
CHF
SEK
DKK
NOK
PLN

They have something called meetup for cash transactions though I haven't checked them by registering. I think they should consider adding more supported currencies so people around the world can easily trade. Only that will help them reaching more audience, otherwise, in such a competitive market, it will be very hard for them to continue the business.

[Pmalek]

They only support these currencies as they mentioned on their website- https://peachbitcoin.com/how-it-works/#:~:text=Supported%20Currencies
EUR
GBP
CHF
SEK
DKK
NOK
PLN

Interesting. Those are all European fiat currencies. The pound, Swiss franc, Swedish/Danish/Norwegian Krona, and the Polish zloty. 
Still, we are missing the Czech koruna, the Bulgarian lev, and the Russian ruble. Not to mention the USD and other non-EU currencies. I wonder if the service is even available in the US, Canada, China, Australia, etc.?

[Peach Bitcoin]

Sheeeesh look that bitcoin 🍑

I tried to install the app using the "DOWNLOAD ON ANDROID" button, but it seems that either the URL is incorrect or the app has been removed from google play store?

So on iOS peach is in TestFlight. On google, peach is in the European countries store (anyone with android can download the apk).

Still, we are missing the Czech koruna, the Bulgarian lev, and the Russian ruble. Not to mention the USD and other non-EU currencies.

- usd will never be added and Us IP are banned (regulations).
- russian ruble due to sanctions and regulation.
- the chinese yuan is of no interest to us, since we are focused on europe.

Can you give us some more stats about how things are going so far?

We will soon share weekly peach market stats from our newsletter. 🍑

Nevertheless, we have ~800 open offers to buy open all the time (the average transaction amount is 250 CHF).
There is currently a demand for CHF 200,000 per day, although we only meet about CHF 10,000 per day!

[Lucius]

Forget about the Play Store. You can just download the app from the official website if you want to use it.
https://peachbitcoin.com/apk/

As for Google Play, I found the app, so I don't know why some users have problems finding it. Of course, the option is to install directly via APK, but such an installation requires the user to allow installations from unknown sources - it is much simpler (mostly and safer) to install the app directly from Google Play Store.


@Peach Bitcoin, my suggestion when it comes to payment options -> Aircash.

[Pmalek]

- usd will never be added and Us IP are banned (regulations).
- russian ruble due to sanctions and regulation.
- the chinese yuan is of no interest to us, since we are focused on europe.

Too bad that there are so many restrictions and that you are solely focused on the EU and nothing else. I also find it regretful that a huge nation like Russia is blacklisted. Bitcoin is a currency of everyone or no one, but that's your decision.

As for Google Play, I found the app, so I don't know why some users have problems finding it.

I tried searching for it manually and couldn't find it on my PC. I didn't try over the phone. "PeachBitcoin", "Peach Bitcoin", or simply "Peach" doesn't show me any good results. Can you post the link to the app so I can check?

[blue Snow]

I can't open applications via download on android also in my phone. But, I can install it via download APK on Android.
I believe this is the play store problem.

I tried searching for it manually and couldn't find it on my PC. I didn't try over the phone. "PeachBitcoin", "Peach Bitcoin", or simply "Peach" doesn't show me any good results. Can you post the link to the app so I can check?

try it here: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.peachbitcoin.peach.mainnet

[Lucius]

Too bad that there are so many restrictions and that you are solely focused on the EU and nothing else. I also find it regretful that a huge nation like Russia is blacklisted. Bitcoin is a currency of everyone or no one, but that's your decision.

It would be best if the service were available globally, but the EU is still a huge market with just under 500 million people and one of the richest areas in the world. In the future, there is always the possibility that the service will expand outside the EU. As for Russia, it is not only a matter of a personal decisions, but also the fact that most of their banks are on the blacklist, and anyone who would try to avoid these sanctions by offering this kind of service would only create additional problems for himself.

I tried searching for it manually and couldn't find it on my PC. I didn't try over the phone. "PeachBitcoin", "Peach Bitcoin", or simply "Peach" doesn't show me any good results. Can you post the link to the app so I can check?

@blue Snow gave the correct link, and via a smartphone, the result for the keyword "peach" puts the app somewhere between 4 and 6 places on the list of results, and although it was not the case yesterday, today when I search for "peach bitcoin" I get a direct link to the app.

[dkbit98]

I would like to introduce you to Peach, a mobile application that directly connects buyers and sellers of BTC. Bitcoin is winning, we believe we are part of the good people who wanna win with Bitcoin, and we want Peach, whose aim is make stacking sats p2p the standard, to be known.

Hi Peach, nice to see you here, I am glad you joined Bitcointalk forum
Please tell me are you official representative or team member of Peach Bitcoin app?

I noticed your app before and last month I created my own discussion topic for Peach, so you can see can take a look there for any additional feedback:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5444162.0

So on iOS peach is in TestFlight. On google, peach is in the European countries store (anyone with android can download the apk).

What's up with the rumors you are going to release Peach app as open source software?
That would be great, if it happens.

[o_e_l_e_o]

I spotted you a few months ago on https://kycnot.me/. Always a good thing to see more non-KYC and real peer to peer trading platforms popping up (not centralized exchanges advertising themselves as P2P). Hope you do well!

A few questions if you don't mind:

1 - Your privacy policy states that you collect the details of fiat payment methods, as well as receiving bitcoin addresses. How long do you store this data for?

2 - Your privacy policy states you share email addresses with MailerLite for the purposes of marketing. Why can't users opt out of this?

3 - Your FAQ says the following:

When making a sell offer, the seller sends the bitcoin to an address that is controlled by him and Peach: the bitcoin can only be moved from here, if he and Peach both sign off on it.
...
If the trade doesn't resolve normally, this address automatically comes into full control of Peach after roughly 30 days (to be precise: when 4320 bitcoin blocks have been mined).

I assume this is a 2-of-2 multi-sig. Is this correct? Can you share your additional script on top of the standard multi-sig script which allows you to spend these coins with a single private key after 4,320 blocks?

[JeromeTash]

Suggestion!

Make backing up of seed phrase mandatory when one is just creating an account by asking the user to confirm the seed phrase they have just written down.

try it here: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.peachbitcoin.peach.mainnet

Link doesn't work

I tried installing the app on my PC via Windows subsystem for Android, but the option to install is greyed out as shown in the picture. Any suggestions?

Windows subsystem for Android has always worked for me when installing other APKs I want to use on PC. it's an emulator of sorts.

[RickDeckard]

I wasn't aware of this service, congratulations on launching it @Peach Bitcoin! Besides the fact that it is P2P, I also like the UI that you provide in your application, great design you've got there!

(...)
2 - Your privacy policy states you share email addresses with MailerLite for the purposes of marketing. Why can't users opt out of this?
(...)

I might have understood this wrong, but if you take a closer look at their privacy policy[1], on chapter 4.1 (Lawful basis for processing your information) there's this entry:

You will receive marketing messages from us if you have given us your consent to do so by signing up on the website.

To unsubscribe from marketing emails at any time, you can click the unsubscribe link that can be found at the bottom of any marketing email. You may also contact us to inform us if you do not wish to receive any marketing materials from us.

This message seems similar to the one that you're given regarding Google Firebase & Google Analytics:

You can toggle sharing usage data on/off in Settings > About Peach > Diagnostics

However, Google Firebase & Google Analytics is clearly shown as (opt-in) - on the service providers section - but the entry related to MailerLite isn't. Perhaps this process happens automatically as soon as you register on the platform? Still, according to the previous quote, your data will only be shared if you choose to opt-in during the registration phase?
[1]https://peachbitcoin.com/privacy-policy/

[Potato Chips]

try it here: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.peachbitcoin.peach.mainnet

Link doesn't work

App is region locked on playstore. I'm guessing you were coming from an IP address outside Europe? I tested it with a few Europe IPs and it worked fine.

I tried installing the app on my PC via Windows subsystem for Android, but the option to install is greyed out as shown in the picture. Any suggestions?

Windows subsystem for Android has always worked for me when installing other APKs I want to use on PC. it's an emulator of sorts.

Were you using WSA pacman? if so, there's a redditor with a similar problem, perhaps you might find a fix, see: https://www.reddit.com/r/Windows11/comments/uqbpn0/install_option_is_greyed_out_in_wsa_pacman_any/

[o_e_l_e_o]

I might have understood this wrong, but if you take a closer look at their privacy policy[1], on chapter 4.1 (Lawful basis for processing your information) there's this entry:

It says you can opt out of receiving emails, but not that you can opt out of your details being shared with their marketing agency.

Either way, I see no reason they should be sharing my details with marketing agencies at all.

[dansus021]

Congratulation for the launching 

anyway do you need Indonesia translation if you do feel free to DM Me

[RickDeckard]

Either way, I see no reason they should be sharing my details with marketing agencies at all.

By default (and within the registration stage) they should list all the services that they work with and allow their users to choose which ones they are comfortable sharing data with (I really believe that a large number of people don't mind their data being shared - especially the ones that instantly click on "Accept all cookies"). In an effort to understand this stance with marketing e-mails, I believe that the main purpose of sharing early access users with MailerLite is to more easily distribute weekly newsletters to share what's being developed at the moment and keep in touch with the "early adopters" as a way to also help them promote their service. Still, I believe this action could also be presented as an option for the user since this is the only option that is left out (Zammad interaction will only be needed if we need to get in touch with their customer support it seems).

[o_e_l_e_o]

(I really believe that a large number of people don't mind their data being shared - especially the ones that instantly click on "Accept all cookies").

Of course, but if we are talking about apps and services specifically designed to allow non-KYC trading and preserving privacy, we shouldn't be happy with accepting that bare minimum.

In an effort to understand this stance with marketing e-mails, I believe that the main purpose of sharing early access users with MailerLite is to more easily distribute weekly newsletters to share what's being developed at the moment and keep in touch with the "early adopters" as a way to also help them promote their service.

Weekly updates and so forth could be on a landing screen on the app, which results in no need to share details with third parties.

Still, I suppose it is easily countered by just using a new email address.

[Hispo]

I just took a look a your web and I must say it is a delight to the eyes, I love the artistic approach you went for.
If you would like a suggestion from me: you should consider to add support to markets or BTC/FIAT pairs from countries where Bitcoin has a wide volume and increasing adoption. For example, Nigeria, Venezuela and Argentina.  🍑🍑🍑

Those are countries where the demand for P2P will continue to grow through time.  
If you ever need someone to translate English to Spanish, send me a PM. We may do business.  

[RickDeckard]

What's up with the rumors you are going to release Peach app as open source software?
That would be great, if it happens.

I'm happy to tell you that it isn't a rumor - Peach Bitcoin twitter account actually tweeted[1][2] that same promise:

WoW thank you 🙏☺️ we will make peach app open source very soon! We are currently getting ready for it

I just took a look a your web and I must say it is a delight to the eyes, I love the artistic approach you went for.
If you would like a suggestion from me: you should consider to add support to markets or BTC/FIAT pairs from countries where Bitcoin has a wide volume and increasing adoption. For example, Nigeria, Venezuela and Argentina.  🍑🍑🍑

I may be wrong on this assumption, but I would say that Peach Bitcoin is, for now, focusing only on the EU markets. They recently stated that they don't operate in Africa for now[3] and all of their offers regarding currency reflect their Europe focus. Take, for example, their US stance regarding expansion[4]:

Peach is not available in the US market and don’t plan to be for now

While they are losing a great deal of customers of US (for example), I think that a steady and organic grow is always recommended when we are speaking of small entities starting out. EU has a great deal of users that they can target and once their product is more matured perhaps they'll revalue again their stance. Entering in the US means being (perhaps) even more regulated since they have different legislation applicable, but only time will tell I guess.
@Peach Bitcoin - Could you eventually share, if possible, a roadmap of things/features to come? Every time I check your Twitter page you've got raving reviews and it seems that the developers behind the product are great, so kudos for that!
[1]https://nitter.net/peachbitcoin/status/1646840615781400577
[2]https://nitter.net/peachbitcoin/status/1638643362260557824
[3]https://nitter.net/peachbitcoin/status/1648306037571698689
[4]https://nitter.net/peachbitcoin/status/1634609225669439490

[Peach Bitcoin]

It would be best if the service were available globally, but the EU is still a huge market with just under 500 million people and one of the richest areas in the world. In the future, there is always the possibility that the service will expand outside the EU. As for Russia, it is not only a matter of a personal decisions, but also the fact that most of their banks are on the blacklist, and anyone who would try to avoid these sanctions by offering this kind of service would only create additional problems for himself.

Not everything is so clear. For now, we are a small company and will scale up and solve problems as they come.
Therefore, at the moment we are focusing on those things that can give impetus to our development, I hope you understand.

1. Your privacy policy states that you collect the details of fiat payment methods, as well as receiving bitcoin addresses. How long do you store this data for?
2. Your privacy policy states you share email addresses with MailerLite for the purposes of marketing. Why can't users opt out of this?

3. I assume this is a 2-of-2 multi-sig. Is this correct? Can you share your additional script on top of the standard multi-sig script which allows you to spend these coins with a single private key after 4,320 blocks?

1. If you allow me, I will refer to this post.

2. This is an opt in into the newsletter. We now use sendinblue instead of mailer lite (t&c and privacy policy are super old tbh).

3. Our first test on mainnet (Under details you can find this part).

Code:

https://mempool.space/tx/372c43afa792337b669ae38349c64b4fe7f20dcacf09bf401a10655c9222feb5

Could you eventually share, if possible, a roadmap of things/features to come?

We are working on 2 weeks sprint basis. Perhaps we can make that available on GitHub as well!

What’s coming in the next release (Monday):

Code:

- account recovery on same device 
- fixing the dispute outcomes 

Then in 2 more weeks (sprint 11):

Code:

- fixing design to adapt to small screen 
- change in account architecture: separating wallet and account 

Following sprints:

Code:

- import p2p reputations from other platforms 
- review of trading limit mechanism 
- review of sorting matches with filters 
- let seller edit premium/payment method after the offer is published 
- create multiple sell offers by finding one escrow 
- implement market stats for both buyer and seller 
- implement full wallet functionally (this is when we plan to make the app open source too)

[RickDeckard]

We are working on 2 weeks sprint basis. Perhaps we can make that available on GitHub as well!

If possible please do indeed. I think that transparency is always great to see in any kind of company, especially the ones that are being developed within the cryptocurrency world. As for the sprints ahead, I'm really looking forward for those features, especially the one where you mention you'll make the app open source as well - I suppose it will eventually happen this year, perhaps sometime during the Summer. Fingers crossed!

I've also noticed that whenever a user wants to export their funds to other wallets, he/she isn't able to do a custom amount - they are only able to either send the whole funds or don't send at all. Do you also plan to implement a feature to tackle this experience?

[JeromeTash]

App is region locked on playstore. I'm guessing you were coming from an IP address outside Europe? I tested it with a few Europe IPs and it worked fine.

Yeah, unfortunately I am currently outside Europe, and it seems their focus is only on some European countries as seen by the fiat currencies supported by the App.
I guess this is where I swallow the bitter pill, knowing that I will never be able to use their service.

[o_e_l_e_o]

1. If you allow me, I will refer to this post.

10 years seems very long. Which jurisdiction are you based in which requires this length of data retention?

2. This is an opt in into the newsletter. We now use sendinblue instead of mailer lite (t&c and privacy policy are super old tbh).

I would suggest that having an up to date privacy policy is pretty important. I certainly wouldn't be happy to find my data had been shared with third parties I hadn't agreed to.

[dkbit98]

10 years seems very long. Which jurisdiction are you based in which requires this length of data retention?

They are probably under Swiss jurisdiction, according to their privacy policy and terms & conditions page.
I remember they said limitation for cash trading was also according to Swiss law, and company registered address is:

Rue des Beaux-Arts 8
c/o LEAX Avocats Sàrl
2000 Neuchâtel
SWITZERLAND

https://peachbitcoin.com/terms-and-conditions/
https://peachbitcoin.com/privacy-policy/

[AB de Royse777]

Hey Bitcointalk!

I would like to introduce you to Peach, a mobile application that directly connects buyers and sellers of BTC. Bitcoin is winning, we believe we are part of the good people who wanna win with Bitcoin, and we want Peach, whose aim is make stacking sats p2p the standard, to be known.

How could I miss it. The best is "for-meetups" section. I really hope the project attracts a lot of people and people register regularly for meeting up to do there trades.

Welcome to the forum.

[joker_josue]

Congratulations for announcing your service here on the forum!

I already knew the app, since the beta version and still closed to the general public. At the time I already thought it was a very good app. But, with this version open to all things got much better.

I recommend using it, as it is simple and practical to use. Totally satisfied and I hope they continue to grow. By the way, I believe that with the approval of MiCA by the UE, this service will become even better.

I'll keep an eye out for news, and if I have any suggestions, I'll come here and share. 

[joker_josue]

@Peach Bitcoin I have a question:
 
When we buy bitcoin, the money stays in the app's wallet until we transfer it to another wallet. Whenever we make a purchase does the bitcoin go to a different address or is it always at the same address?

[RickDeckard]

@Peach Bitcoin I have a question:
 
When we buy bitcoin, the money stays in the app's wallet until we transfer it to another wallet. Whenever we make a purchase does the bitcoin go to a different address or is it always at the same address?

As far as I'm aware, Peach Wallet generates a new/different address for each individual buy offer that you take. You can also change the payout address in Settings -> Payout address if you want to specify a different one.

[joker_josue]

As far as I'm aware, Peach Wallet generates a new/different address for each individual buy offer that you take. You can also change the payout address in Settings -> Payout address if you want to specify a different one.

Thanks! This can be really useful, to achieve increased privacy. As this way, we can manage each purchase individually and not combine two purchases and thus guarantee greater privacy.

We just hope they continue to grow and have enough sellers/buyers to go around.

[RickDeckard]

We just hope they continue to grow and have enough sellers/buyers to go around.

Now that you talk about "growing", Peach Wallet is currently trying to get a "nomination" to pitch their product in Prague in the next BTC Prague event[1]. In order for them to make it, they are competing with more startups in a voting event - where you vote by donate sats - here[2] where the top 8 most voted will advance to the final round of pitching their product within BTC Prague event. All sats received will be donated to "Haima Ostrava, Clinic of Children's Medicine Department of Pediatric Hematology and Hemato-oncology"[2].

I guess that if you ever used Peach Wallet and ended up liking the product/concept, it never hurts to donate some sats to see it it is able to reach the pitching phase  . The more P2P solutions out there, the better!
[1]https://www.btcprague.com/
[2]https://app.mash.com/voting/3d5c163b-2409-4c32-99fe-1ff115afa1aa

[joker_josue]

I guess that if you ever used Peach Wallet and ended up liking the product/concept, it never hurts to donate some sats to see it it is able to reach the pitching phase  . The more P2P solutions out there, the better!

I really can try to help. Thanks for the tip. 
Now they have a very low percentage, it shouldn't be easy to get. We'll see.


Do you know what happens to the money that is donated if the project fails to get the pitch?

[RickDeckard]

Do you know what happens to the money that is donated if the project fails to get the pitch?

So far they have 36 projects[1] competing for being within the top 8, and all of the sats gathered during this stage will be donated (independently if only 8 projects reach the final stage). No sats will be lost  .
[1]https://nitter.it/BtcPrague/status/1650798485011066880

[RickDeckard]

Just letting anyone interest knowing - Peach Wallet has been updated to v0.2.5 (as of 27/04/2023). Changelog:

New
-Improved recovery model, you can recover from any device now and new accounts on the -same device can restore reputation
-Allow 2 decimal point on custom premium selection
-Sell offer not funded disappear after 7 days
-New trade details layout
-Remove timer on cash trades
-New meetups
-Performance improvements
-Speed metric - don't count time for confirming SEPA payments on the weekend
Bug
-App crashing when clicking on "next" on the sell view
-Rare bug 'you don't have permission to view this content' popup when publishing offer
-Do not refund when funded sell offer falls out of range (BTC price pumps)
-Update available banner is not showing
Misc
-Add form field validation to PM reference to block on "bitcoin" or "peach" reference

This update implements the previous changes that were first announced here[1]:

(...)
What’s coming in the next release (Monday):

Code:

- account recovery on same device 
- fixing the dispute outcomes 

(...)

[1]https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5448414.msg62121530#msg62121530

[dkbit98]

Just letting anyone interest knowing - Peach Wallet has been updated to v0.2.5 (as of 27/04/2023).

Most important thing is they added more meetups and payment options to choose from.
If someone is interested to create new meetup location in their country/city contact them on website meetup page.
I saw they added Keks Pay for  payment option for Croatia, and few other options in online wallet options.

Suggestion for Peach Bitcoin devs... create dark theme option for app please.

[LeGaulois]

...

I'm still confused with the meetups.

When you go to the event, all the folks are supposed to be a Peach Bitcoin user? Or random bitcoiners groups are listed at peachbitcoin.com/for-meetups? I mean the group that goes to the restaurant to talk BTC.
And I may perhaps find a PeachBitcoin user?...

[joker_josue]

When you go to the event, all the folks are supposed to be a Peach Bitcoin user? Or random bitcoiners groups are listed at peachbitcoin.com/for-meetups? I mean the group that goes to the restaurant to talk BTC.
And I may perhaps find a PeachBitcoin user?...

From the list I've seen, I think that random groups can also be listed in the app.
The idea is for the user to choose to make the payment when meeting the person. The app being the escrow service.

[RickDeckard]

...

I'm still confused with the meetups.

When you go to the event, all the folks are supposed to be a Peach Bitcoin user? Or random bitcoiners groups are listed at peachbitcoin.com/for-meetups? I mean the group that goes to the restaurant to talk BTC.
And I may perhaps find a PeachBitcoin user?...

You can find more information regarding meetups here[1] @LeGaulois. As far as I'm aware the concept is to be seen as a partnership - if an organization is having a Bitcoin meetup for numerous reasons (to talk about certain aspects of the technology for example) they can get in touch with Peach and also provide the option for whoever is attending the meeting to exchange cash for bitcoin using Peach wallet as a safe "heaven" that promotes the exchange. You can already select the option of "Cash" whenever you use the app, but whenever you are near a Bitcoin meetup that has partnered with Peach, you will also get alerted that you can do a cash exchange physically (and, more importantly, in a safe environment that meetups provides).

The company also provides some cool merchandise to help promote the service and it also shares 1% of the trading volume with the organization body of the meetup[1]:

What’s in it for the meetup organizers?

Meetup organizers play an important role in the Peach cash trade: they are the ones who will need to explain how Peach works, and will be the point of contact for anyone using the feature during the meetup.

To thank & compensate the organizers for this, we give back three things:

• 1% of the volume traded. Important note: we will give back 1% only to the meetup organizers that can be subject to receive donations. Some meetups, due to their status or organization, will not be able receive it.
• Peach merch
• Visibility for the meetup on the Peach app.

To directly answer your question: Not all Bitcoin meetups will have a partnership with Peach Bitcoin (especially in the current early stages of the service, but this will surely improve long term). Whenever you're in doubt just look up into the application and see if there's a nearby meetup hosting this service and, when you're there, just look out for these[2][3][4] signs and you'll know you're in the right place.
[1]https://peachbitcoin.com/blog/peach-for-meetups/
[2]https://nitter.it/peachbitcoin/status/1649172239432949762
[3]https://nitter.it/einundzwanzigBS/status/1648725294709080066
[4]https://nitter.it/itsTomekK/status/1646848369078198274

[RickDeckard]

Found another two pieces of information in Peach Telegram channel that I believe are relevant for archiving purposes (and to better understand how Peach is going):

Regarding how the app manages the encrypted bank details that are used in the app when a SEPA Payment is made:


Secondly, as per Steph announcement (who I assume runs the OP account) today, Peach has surpassed the millionth CHF volume traded (which equals to roughly 45 BTC as of now). For a project that started in September of 2022[1][2], I find this amount awesome and it makes be believe that P2P adoption has a good future ahead.
[1]https://nitter.it/proofofsteph/status/1565355174599737344
[2]https://nitter.it/peachbitcoin/status/1565626429504733184

[dkbit98]

I'm still confused with the meetups.

You can find all the details on their website and contact them for more information/explanation.
Every communication before meeting is done over the app, and locations are popping up everywhere in Europe, but there is still lot of room for growth and improvement.

Found another two pieces of information in Peach Telegram channel that I believe are relevant for archiving purposes (and to better understand how Peach is going):

Is that PeachBTC telegram group available for everyone or only for beta testers because title sounds confusing?
Encrypting bank details is cool but we don't know what type of encryption they used and I will have my doubts until they release open source code and someone verifies encryption is good.
I prefer meetings because you don't need to share many personal details over app.

[Peach Bitcoin]

First of all, I want to say that I really like your answers guys, but I have run out of opportunity to like you!

I would like to add that we are also concerned about the current situation around the Ordinals, as this has caused us a lot of inconvenience. We are realists and we perfectly understand that in the absence of a softfor, this can happen again (thank God, now the mempool has unloaded a little).

- We are thinking of integrating LBTC (with an integrated swapping service).

I would be grateful if you would share your opinion on this in a more detailed form. 

[dkbit98]

I would like to add that we are also concerned about the current situation around the Ordinals, as this has caused us a lot of inconvenience. We are realists and we perfectly understand that in the absence of a softfor, this can happen again (thank God, now the mempool has unloaded a little).

I am expecting developers to disable ordinals junk spam in next bitcoin updates, and if some degens want to fork off (again) let them do it.

- We are thinking of integrating LBTC (with an integrated swapping service).

This is a good idea, but only if BTC to L-BTC swap is done without any kyc procedure or extra complicated steps.
You can also consider adding Lightning Network as alternative for lower amounts or when transaction fees are high again.

[o_e_l_e_o]

- We are thinking of integrating LBTC (with an integrated swapping service).

Why would you implement support for a permissioned federation when you have options like Lightning and Monero available to you?

I am expecting developers to disable ordinals junk spam in next bitcoin updates

I doubt it very much. There is nothing even close to consensus about this on the mailing list, and even if there was, it would likely take months of discussion on GitHub before a viable pull request was ready to be merged.

[F2b]

- We are thinking of integrating LBTC (with an integrated swapping service).

I'm not really familiar with Liquid so my opinion isn't worth much, but I guess it all depends on the demand there is for it. Have you got requests from users to integrate it?
I mean, looking at liquid.network I can barely see any transaction, and besides Blockstream's wallet I don't any major wallet integrating it (I may just be ignorant, tho). Of course it's always nice to see support for different technologies and someone has to go first, but as a startup with limited resources, you may want to think twice before doing it.

From what I understand swapping between BTC and L-BTC is also holding adoption back. As someone not familiar with Liquid, my point of view is that it should be as transparent / seamless as submarine swaps on Lightning, with very small fees and of course no KYC. But I don't know if that's realistic.

I'm sure you have already thought about integrating Lightning, but I'd like to mention it once again, as it's probably the most used scaling solution today. Also, that's more of a personal thing, but for some reason I tend to use desktop wallets for on-chain transactions and mobile wallet for Lightning ones, and since Peach is a mobile app...
In more concrete terms, I think Peach is great for onboarding newcommers. And I think we tend to onboard people with Lightning wallets, as they usually start with small amounts and most bitcoiners are familiar with this technology.
That being said, Liquid would also work for that use-case... if it was actually used.

Edit: one drawback with Lightning tho, is that you would likely need to implement a custodial solution.

Why would you implement support for a permissioned federation when you have options like Lightning and Monero available to you?

Indeed, that's another concern. (Although scaling Bitcoin is most a matter of compromises.)
Lightning is quite concentrated around a few companies, but at least the protocol is open and anyone can run their node and choose the people who they want to open channels with.

[dkbit98]

I mean, looking at liquid.network I can barely see any transaction, and besides Blockstream's wallet I don't any major wallet integrating it (I may just be ignorant, tho). Of course it's always nice to see support for different technologies and someone has to go first, but as a startup with limited resources, you may want to think twice before doing it.

You can literally see transactions happening all the time on mempool explorer, it's not like BTC mainnet for sure, but I am not expecting it to ever be like that.
As for wallets I know ledger hardware wallet is supporting Liquid chain, they have app and it works connected with Green wallet, and we also have Jade hardware wallet with full support.
I don't know any other wallets supporting Liquid chain yet, but many centralized exchanges are supporting it.
One good thing about Liquid (and I don't like federated blabla blockstream) is the fact we can use confidential transactions, and enter/exit stable coins much easier.

[n0nce]

Interesting, I just re-discovered this due to your post.. I do appreciate more P2P trading options, and the website design is definitely pretty and appealing.

But do you know what's missing on your webpage? A big, bold GitHub (or other VCS) icon. Or am I just blind?

While I do understand that with a mobile app, you can appeal to a mass audience, I believe many Bitcoiners will prefer to run such software on desktop and / or in browser. Especially if you don't compile the mobile app yourself, there's no way to really know what kinds of data it collects about you / your device and where it sends such data.

Just from a UX standpoint, I'm interested to know whether the application will need to stay online for the trade offer to remain online (like on bisq). Else how do you deal with smartphone apps' limited background-running capabilities?

[joker_josue]

Just from a UX standpoint, I'm interested to know whether the application will need to stay online for the trade offer to remain online (like on bisq). Else how do you deal with smartphone apps' limited background-running capabilities?

I don't know how to answer that, but I can comment on the analysis I did.

The only permission the app requests on Android is notifications and camera access (which I'm denied). Notifications are only for the person to be notified when an offer match occurs (at least they were the only ones I received).

Therefore, it concludes that the offer is online, without the need for the app to run in the background.

[n0nce]

Just from a UX standpoint, I'm interested to know whether the application will need to stay online for the trade offer to remain online (like on bisq). Else how do you deal with smartphone apps' limited background-running capabilities?

I don't know how to answer that, but I can comment on the analysis I did.

The only permission the app requests on Android is notifications and camera access (which I'm denied). Notifications are only for the person to be notified when an offer match occurs (at least they were the only ones I received).

Therefore, it concludes that the offer is online, without the need for the app to run in the background.

So there is already one issue here: notifications on Android are delivered through Firebase FCM, which is a centralized Google service. On iOS, they are delivered through APNS - which is the same thing by Apple. In the worst case, iOS users' notifications are actually managed through Firebase and delivered by APNS; so both companies get to know the contents of their notifications.

If the application does not need to run in the background and you can still find a trade partner, I assume there is a centralized server somewhere that keeps offers online. This could be both a central point of failure as well as a privacy concern, especially if the application doesn't connect to it through Tor. Is anything known about this? Otherwise, the server could easily gather and store IP addresses and transaction details, such as payment methods and names.


Depending on the details, this could be almost as bad as a centralized exchange when it comes to privacy.

If we had open-source client code, I could easily check if users' name and payment details are properly encrypted and only visible to their trading partner, for instance. Or whether the Tor connection exists / is set up properly. Best-case would be a serverless, decentralized architecture like what's used in bisq.

Right now, I believe Robosats may honestly be a more private option, since you use it through Tor and it receives no 'device information' like a mobile app, doesn't deliver notifications through centralized Google / Apple servers and so on.

[joker_josue]

If we had open-source client code, I could easily check if users' name and payment details are properly encrypted and only visible to their trading partner, for instance.

There is no username, just an ID assigned by the app. Yes it's a username, but it's not the person's name. And the payment methods are all processed outside the platform, the platform being just a means of communication between the parties.

I am speaking from my experience. Either way I understand the concerns.

[n0nce]

If we had open-source client code, I could easily check if users' name and payment details are properly encrypted and only visible to their trading partner, for instance.

There is no username, just an ID assigned by the app. Yes it's a username, but it's not the person's name. And the payment methods are all processed outside the platform, the platform being just a means of communication between the parties.

I am speaking from my experience. Either way I understand the concerns.

How exactly do they 'process the payment methods outside the platform'? In the next sentence you say that it's a means of communication.

So I assume that as a seller, you send the other party your fiat payment information (which often includes your real name) through the application's communication system, right?

Just trying to understand.

[joker_josue]

How exactly do they 'process the payment methods outside the platform'? In the next sentence you say that it's a means of communication.

So I assume that you send the other party your payment information (which often includes your real name) if you are selling BTC through the application's communication system, right?

Just trying to understand..

Then it will depend on the method used as a means of payment.

For example, when I tested it, I used a payment method that simply indicates the mobile number to send the money. In that sense, the seller sent me a mobile number, to which I sent the money. I gave the indication in the app that I sent the money, and a few minutes later the seller indicated that he received it, and the BTC was transferred.

The question now arises is how the app stores this type of communication. Whether it's point to point or not. But that, I can no longer answer. On the other hand, as there is no kyc, it is difficult to obtain a court order to present the data. Whose data, if they don't identify anyone?

Looking at my example. Even if the seller has problems with the law, the only information they have is the transfer of money via mobile phone. A system widely used among friends and family to pay for group meals, so little to no indication that it has anything to do with BTC.

[n0nce]

The question now arises is how the app stores this type of communication. Whether it's point to point or not. But that, I can no longer answer. On the other hand, as there is no kyc, it is difficult to obtain a court order to present the data. Whose data, if they don't identify anyone?

Looking at my example. Even if the seller has problems with the law, the only information they have is the transfer of money via mobile phone. A system widely used among friends and family to pay for group meals, so little to no indication that it has anything to do with BTC.

Well, mobile phone numbers are nowadays often tied to real identities using KYC. So if this communication is not encrypted end-to-end without backdoors or implementation flaws, a three-letter agency could knock at Peach's door, fetch a copy of their data, map phone numbers to identities and end up with a nice list of 'suspicious P2P Bitcoin investors'.

A non-insignificant number of governments nowadays push the narrative that striving for privacy, trying to avoid KYC and using P2P exchanges instead, for instance, is suspicious / criminal behavior or criminally motivated.

[joker_josue]

Well, mobile phone numbers are nowadays often tied to real identities using KYC. So if this communication is not encrypted end-to-end without backdoors or implementation flaws, a three-letter agency could knock at Peach's door, fetch a copy of their data, map phone numbers to identities and end up with a nice list of 'suspicious P2P Bitcoin investors'.

A non-insignificant number of governments nowadays push the narrative that striving for privacy, trying to avoid KYC and using P2P exchanges instead, for instance, is suspicious / criminal behavior or criminally motivated.

I'm not saying no, I'm just giving an example of a use case. It is also complicated now to explain how the app works. You can still use VPN to access the app, and not use VPN when paying. But, they would have to be investigating someone specifically, to be able to draw those conclusions. And it should be noted that there are payment methods that are only available in each country, being the users of that country to know how to use it in the best possible way. But, I'm not saying it's impossible.

Almost any P2P method has elements that can be unidentifiable. Unless both people meet and hand money to each other.

Now, Peach has to create (if she hasn't already created) a way for the data not to be stored, at least for a long time.

[dkbit98]

Right now, I believe Robosats may honestly be a more private option, since you use it through Tor and it receives no 'device information' like a mobile app, doesn't deliver notifications through centralized Google / Apple servers and so on.

Yeah but I don't think you can use Robosats for meetups and trading face to face for cash, plus I think there are much more options in Peach compared to Robosats.
I think adding support for Tor would be a good idea for Peach, and maybe Robosats and Peach Bitcoin can work together in future.
In theory Peach could alter create web app with limited functionality, like The Bitcoin Company did with their no-kyc cards.

Well, mobile phone numbers are nowadays often tied to real identities using KYC. So if this communication is not encrypted end-to-end without backdoors or implementation flaws, a three-letter agency could knock at Peach's door, fetch a copy of their data, map phone numbers to identities and end up with a nice list of 'suspicious P2P Bitcoin investors'.

Communication is done within Peach app and I think it's encrypted, so I don't think there is anything connected with phone numbers.
My biggest complain to Peach is that source code needs to be released as open source, for code encryption to be inspected for bugs and exploits.

[n0nce]

Right now, I believe Robosats may honestly be a more private option, since you use it through Tor and it receives no 'device information' like a mobile app, doesn't deliver notifications through centralized Google / Apple servers and so on.

Yeah but I don't think you can use Robosats for meetups and trading face to face for cash, plus I think there are much more options in Peach compared to Robosats.
I think adding support for Tor would be a good idea for Peach, and maybe Robosats and Peach Bitcoin can work together in future.

Tor and open-source code are an absolute must for me. Robosats does have a 'F2F' option, by the way. You can even enter a custom payment option yourself.
Even if Peach may have more features, privacy should always be number 1 priority. But I guess it could be a good alternative to CEX for mobile users who don't own a computer that runs Tor Browser.

In theory Peach could alter create web app with limited functionality, like The Bitcoin Company did with their no-kyc cards.

Why limited? I'm really interested to understand why this needs to be an app. Maybe I will just install it in an emulator and have a look myself.

Communication is done within Peach app and I think it's encrypted, so I don't think there is anything connected with phone numbers.

Their Google Play page says they collect the in-app messages, crash logs, diagnostics, and device identifiers. Such an identifier would let them connect your trades, whereas reloading Robosats will give you a completely fresh, unlinked identity.



Be aware that 'encrypted in transit' merely refers to the usage of HTTPS (TLS). When the data reaches the server, it is in the clear again. If you're unlucky, they might use Cloudflare, so those folks will have a copy of the data as well. As long as there is no end-to-end encryption in place.
Usually people use E2E as a selling point and plaster it all over the place, which I haven't seen on the pretty Peach Bitcoin website yet.



One good thing I did notice is that they use a Let's Encrypt TLS certificate for their website at least, instead of Cloudflare.

[dkbit98]

Tor and open-source code are an absolute must for me. Robosats does have a 'F2F' option, by the way. You can even enter a custom payment option yourself.
Even if Peach may have more features, privacy should always be number 1 priority. But I guess it could be a good alternative to CEX for mobile users who don't own a computer that runs Tor Browser.

Yes that is exactly the reason why I like what Peach is doing.
There are much more mobile users than computer users today, especially in third world countries, so growth potential is much bigger.
If I had the option to choose I would always use desktop solution with Tor, something like Bisq or Robosats is good for that.

Why limited? I'm really interested to understand why this needs to be an app. Maybe I will just install it in an emulator and have a look myself.

It's limited for The Bitcoin Company (and their cards), and I don't know why, maybe because it's still in early beta phase.
I have no idea how thsi would work for Peach Bitcoin.

Their Google Play page says they collect the in-app messages, crash logs, diagnostics, and device identifiers. Such an identifier would let them connect your trades, whereas reloading Robosats will give you a completely fresh, unlinked identity.

Well yeah, that is what you get when you install most of the google and iOS apps, but I am not sure if the same happens with direct APK file.
It's certainly a good to read Terms & Conditions and Privacy Policy page before using Peach:
https://peachbitcoin.com/privacy-policy/
https://peachbitcoin.com/terms-and-conditions/

[joker_josue]

The question now arises is how the app stores this type of communication. Whether it's point to point or not. But that, I can no longer answer. On the other hand, as there is no kyc, it is difficult to obtain a court order to present the data. Whose data, if they don't identify anyone?

Looking at my example. Even if the seller has problems with the law, the only information they have is the transfer of money via mobile phone. A system widely used among friends and family to pay for group meals, so little to no indication that it has anything to do with BTC.

Well, mobile phone numbers are nowadays often tied to real identities using KYC. So if this communication is not encrypted end-to-end without backdoors or implementation flaws, a three-letter agency could knock at Peach's door, fetch a copy of their data, map phone numbers to identities and end up with a nice list of 'suspicious P2P Bitcoin investors'.

Just one more note on this point: you don't need to do everything on the same mobile phone.

You can install/use the app on one device. And then make the payment via another device. Payments are made outside the app, so you can easily do things without linking one thing to another.

[n0nce]

Why limited? I'm really interested to understand why this needs to be an app. Maybe I will just install it in an emulator and have a look myself.

It's limited for The Bitcoin Company (and their cards), and I don't know why, maybe because it's still in early beta phase.
I have no idea how thsi would work for Peach Bitcoin.

I was looking for a technical reason; if it's due to being in early beta, they could just as well have focused on getting it to work (at all; as well as with non-limited functionality) in an anonymous browser before doing the app, for instance.

It's certainly a good to read Terms & Conditions and Privacy Policy page before using Peach:
https://peachbitcoin.com/privacy-policy/
https://peachbitcoin.com/terms-and-conditions/

Sure, but I prefer reading code instead. Only code gives you the full picture and confidence about what data is really collected and uploaded to their servers.

[RickDeckard]

It's certainly a good to read Terms & Conditions and Privacy Policy page before using Peach:
https://peachbitcoin.com/privacy-policy/
https://peachbitcoin.com/terms-and-conditions/

Sure, but I prefer reading code instead. Only code gives you the full picture and confidence about what data is really collected and uploaded to their servers.

Just letting you know that this has been discussed in the beginning of the thread[1] - the plan of this application is to go open source in the near future (I would say that it still could happen this year, but one never knows). Peach also gave an the interview recently[2] with the Foundation team and the open source subject is discussed here[3]. On that subject, I could sum up their reply in the following bullet points:

• They want verifiable source code first to legally protect them against possible application copies based on their work;
• It also took them a lot of time to get their API ready (which seems to be almost ready) in order to make sure that 1 person only has 1 account and doesn't exploit the system (in this case the daily trade limit) and thus comply with regulations. Naturally their API will also be open source;
• The planned license to implement in the MITCC. MITCC basically allows any user to use the code to create another application but aren't able to create a company based on the code used (by Peach Wallet). This was also explained better on this segment of the podcast[4].

[1]https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5448414.msg62121530#msg62121530
[2]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w_dh6nusghk
[3]https://youtu.be/w_dh6nusghk?t=2196
[4]https://youtu.be/w_dh6nusghk?t=2386

[Agbe]

Hey Bitcointalk!

I would like to introduce you to Peach, a mobile application that directly connects buyers and sellers of BTC. Bitcoin is winning, we believe we are part of the good people who wanna win with Bitcoin, and we want Peach, whose aim is make stacking sats p2p the standard, to be known.

Though I am commenting late but nothing is late in the forum. Exchange is one of the best platform in the cryptocurrency ecosystem world. But which of the exchange is the best customer friendly is the issue on ground. The one that is trying right now is Binance exchange platform. So if you are coming to the exchange platforms then you have compete with Binance if you can do that.

Building a great product is cool, but it’s cooler if people actually use it.  

People will use it when they discovered that the platform is good to use. It is the people will still advertise it to other people so the major thing here is your customer friendly attitude.

We want peach to learn from the user insights! We intend to strengthen our position in the p2p niche and want to start with Bitcointalk, moreover, we have already started some preparations, so we will announce ourselves in full force very soon! Please feel free to ask!

- https://twitter.com/peachbitcoin
- https://peachbitcoin.com/how-it-works/

Then you have to create two campaigns here in the forum for the massive awareness. Signature campaign and Review campaign. These two campaigns will give you enough customers to the site.

[RickDeckard]

Then you have to create two campaigns here in the forum for the massive awareness. Signature campaign and Review campaign. These two campaigns will give you enough customers to the site.

I don't think that Peach is ready for mass marketing (yet) and it seems that I am not the only one thinking about that[1]. If I were them, I would wait until their previously shared roadmap is done[2] before considering making a signature campaign (if they ever do one). The reason for that is simple - you have to have a mature product in order to receive/attract a larger audience than they currently have. So far the UI also seems to be a bit rough in some areas but also the options could be improved (for example you only have the option to empty your Peach Wallet to an address of yours, you can't make a custom transfer). Make no mistake, I totally support small companies in spreading a word regarding their product, but I also believe that in order for a campaign to be successful, the product itself has to have a certain maturity in order to avoid the usual problems that non-mature app have (crashing, confusing UI, servers overloading, amongst others).

In the future, if they do decide to run a campaign here, I'm sure icopress is up to the task .

PS: I think it is worthwhile to mention that, despise having invested 0 sats[3] in their app, their volume traded has surpassed a million CHF[4]. Congratulations on the achievement @Peach Bitcoin!
[1]https://nitter.it/peachbitcoin/status/1659993332196470785
[2]https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5448414.msg62121530#msg62121530
[3]https://nitter.it/peachbitcoin/status/1661434993606885389
[4]https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5448414.msg62190426#msg62190426

[dkbit98]

Sure, but I prefer reading code instead. Only code gives you the full picture and confidence about what data is really collected and uploaded to their servers.

I agree, even if I am not developer and can't read the code very well, but I know other security experts will do it.
Good news is that Peach devs announced they are moving everything to opensource, but without any eta.
It would be best if they could say more about that, since they are already registered in forum.

The planned license to implement in the MITCC. MITCC basically allows any user to use the code to create another application but aren't able to create a company based on the code used (by Peach Wallet).

Dies MITCC means MIT Common Clause license?
If that is the case, than this is not really open source license, similar stuff is used by Coldcard and this is verifiable code.
I will have to find some time to listen that podcast.

[RickDeckard]

Dies MITCC means MIT Common Clause license?
If that is the case, than this is not really open source license, similar stuff is used by Coldcard and this is verifiable code.
I will have to find some time to listen that podcast.

Reading your definition of it and after listening to the podcast section, I would say that yes, it is the same license. This is mostly because your information matches with my bullet points - they want to protect the code to be used by other people and prevent (exterior) financial benefit.

[n0nce]

Dies MITCC means MIT Common Clause license?
If that is the case, than this is not really open source license, similar stuff is used by Coldcard and this is verifiable code.
I will have to find some time to listen that podcast.

Reading your definition of it and after listening to the podcast section, I would say that yes, it is the same license. This is mostly because your information matches with my bullet points - they want to protect the code to be used by other people and prevent (exterior) financial benefit.

I'm not a fan of this either. They want the benefits of open-source: have other people look at their code, getting people to help them find bugs, the good reputation of FOSS etc. while not committing to real 'free open-source software'.
It would only be fair to let people use the code freely by e.g. launching a modified version of the code, for instance to make a Monero exchange or whatnot. Then, the original project can learn from the bug fixes and modifications of the 'fork team' and implement those changes, too. Win-win.
Also security-wise, I highly doubt you will get any 'free security reviews' and bug fixing pull requests if people are meant to do them purely out of the kindness of their heart.

[dkbit98]

Reading your definition of it and after listening to the podcast section, I would say that yes, it is the same license. This is mostly because your information matches with my bullet points - they want to protect the code to be used by other people and prevent (exterior) financial benefit.

This license is better than closed source but it's clearly not open source.
I don't want this to become industry standard, just because you don't want someone else to fork your code (and maybe improve it).
However,  this is still better than current license they are using now, but they shouldn't put open source label on it.

It would only be fair to let people use the code freely by e.g. launching a modified version of the code, for instance to make a Monero exchange or whatnot. Then, the original project can learn from the bug fixes and modifications of the 'fork team' and implement those changes, too. Win-win.

I guess we should all thank ''NVK coldcard'' for this invention... shame^(not) Satoshi was not so ''smart'' to do the same thing with Bitcoin license 

[icopress]

It looks like my unobtrusive congratulation turned into a lot of retweets for my pizza. 

[RickDeckard]

It looks like my unobtrusive congratulation turned into a lot of retweets for my pizza. 

That sure is some devotion to both pizza and Peach! I sure hope it was as tasty as it looks! Peach gets exposition and you get to taste some delicious pizza - Win win?

[RickDeckard]

Secondly, as per Steph announcement (who I assume runs the OP account) today, Peach has surpassed the millionth CHF volume traded (which equals to roughly 45 BTC as of now). For a project that started in September of 2022[1][2], I find this amount awesome and it makes be believe that P2P adoption has a good future ahead.

Sorry for the double post but thought that this could be interesting - As of 15th of June, Peach has surpassed 55 P2P BTC traded in their app/service. In about 1.5 months they were able to increase the volume by 10 BTC which is great considering that their marketing is still low and they are still ironing out their app. Congrats @Peach Bitcoin!

[icopress]

Looks like Peach is heading in the right direction. 

I also spoke with Steph not too long ago and she was kind enough to share what they want to focus on in the near future.

Code:

1. Open order book, peach can be built on nostr 
2. Built-in market discovery data (I think that’s the killer use case) 
3. LN integration

Guys... I can't tell you what a positive charge comes from this bitcoin maximalist.

[RickDeckard]

Taking advantage of that update, I recently also found out that QnA (Head of Customer Service of Foundation Devices[1]) wrote a really in depth guide[2] regarding how to use Peach Bitcoin that is really useful for users that may be interested in trying out the service.
Regarding going open source, @capoczino, the lead developer of the wallet, has recently talked about it:

To be clear, the app will be source code verifiable under MIT-CC

But we are going to make some parts available under MIT license such as the API wrapper

[1]https://foundationdevices.com/about/
[2]https://bitcoiner.guide/peach/
[3]https://nitter.nl/capoczino/status/1681546380836319232

[LeGaulois]

I didn't know Nostr until 2-3 days ago. (yes I know, what a shame). It's amazing what can be done with it and when I thought about it, the idea is very similar to Bitcoin's keys.
By jumping in the train, PeachBitcoin would really be an early adoptor in this area.

Another thing:
They said the dispute rate is about 2%. Very low to me, but the matter was they're not in shame to say it. I was a bit surprised.
I've never heard a platform having this transparency about it.

(generally speaking, honesty is rewarding soon or later)

[RickDeckard]

Another thing:
They said the dispute rate is about 2%. Very low to me, but the matter was they're not in shame to say it. I was a bit surprised.
I've never heard a platform having this transparency about it.

I think that being transparent on this subject is always good since disputes (and how they are proceeded, how much there are, etc) are always the first question that someone asks when they hear about P2P markets (at least whenever I engage in this discussion with someone else) and that is understandable since people want to feel that there is a system protecting both buyers/sellers. They are also very active on their Telegram channel as well regarding this - You just have to post your dispute and someone from their team will tell you their current status and what they can do to help you out. Overall a very direct and clear communication (which is great to see!), that allows for an easier adoption by trusting the system.

[icopress]

I think that being transparent on this subject is always good [...]

That's why I like Peach so much... I've spent dozens of hours texting Steph and I can say with confidence that she will defend Peach's ideals at all costs. They are having a pretty busy days right now as they prepare for the next seed round and if I had half a million dollars in Bitcoin I would definitely invest in them as Peach has a lot of potential. Lol... if anyone has half a million dollars in BTC let me know... i would like to borrow from you to invest in Peach.

Let's just think logically together (why the Peach is very promising).

• Ten31 became the leader of the round (Pre-seed).
• At the beginning of May, Peach surpassed one million trading volume in CHF (which at the time was approximately 45 BTC). ^{For a project that started in September 2022, I find this amount amazing, and it makes me believe that P2P adoption has a good future ahead of it.}
• There is practically no competition among peer-to-peer trading platforms (not centralized exchanges advertising themselves as P2P). ^{There are only a few names on the list - Bisq, Hodlhodl, AgoraDesk, Robosats.}
• Already, Peach has three times as many buy orders as the infamous Binance P2P.
• Peach fully operates on a Bitcoin Standard (Peach doesn’t have a bank account, has its reserve in BTC and will get its revenue in BTC.

[RickDeckard]

• Ten31 became the leader of the round (Pre-seed).
• At the beginning of May, Peach surpassed one million trading volume in CHF (which at the time was approximately 45 BTC). ^{For a project that started in September 2022, I find this amount amazing, and it makes me believe that P2P adoption has a good future ahead of it.}
• There is practically no competition among peer-to-peer trading platforms (not centralized exchanges advertising themselves as P2P). ^{There are only a few names on the list - Bisq, Hodlhodl, AgoraDesk, Robosats.}
• Already, Peach has three times as many buy orders as the infamous Binance P2P.
• Peach fully operates on a Bitcoin Standard (Peach doesn’t have a bank account, has its reserve in BTC and will get its revenue in BTC.

Adding to this list is the fact that Peach has managed to reach these values with almost zero marketing and with a Beta product. Once they iron out some issues and polish their app overall, I'm sure they'll be able to reach higher levels. Their tactic so far - word of mouth - is good to generate awareness with almost no cost, but once they start focusing on marketing I'm sure they'll attract a lot more users. They just need to keep doing what they've been doing greatly so far.

[dkbit98]

Let's just think logically together (why the Peach is very promising).

I was one of the first guys who wrote about PeachBitcoin in forum, so I deserve some share of future profits, right?  Just kidding, but I am open for business
They have big growth potential because many people still didn't hear about Peach or they never used it, so there are no sell/buy offers available in many countries.
Biggest problem for me so far is the fact they still didn't switch to (more) open version of code, and they are not available anywhere outside Europe, as far as I know.
I would also like to see Peach web version, that can work as alternative for people who already signed up with smartphones.

[dkbit98]

For everyone who had concerns about PeachBitcoin source code, good news that developers released it on their github page, and it is verifiable with Commons Clause plus MIT license.
I know clear Open Source license would probably be better, but they wanted to have basic code protection against forking, and I can understand that more than when some hardware wallets are doing it.
Blog article is explaining more this decision to go with MIT-CC license:
https://peachbitcoin.com/blog/open-sourcing-our-peach-app/

Code:

(c) Copyright 2023 by Peach Sàrl.

Permission is hereby granted, free of charge, to any person obtaining a copy of this software and associated documentation files (the "Software"), to deal in the Software without restriction, including without limitation the rights to use, copy, modify, merge, publish, distribute, sublicense, and/or sell copies of the Software, and to permit persons to whom the Software is furnished to do so, subject to the following conditions:

The above copyright notice and this permission notice shall be included in all copies or substantial portions of the Software.

THE SOFTWARE IS PROVIDED "AS IS", WITHOUT WARRANTY OF ANY KIND, EXPRESS OR IMPLIED, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO THE WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY, FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE AND NONINFRINGEMENT. IN NO EVENT SHALL THE AUTHORS OR COPYRIGHT HOLDERS BE LIABLE FOR ANY CLAIM, DAMAGES OR OTHER LIABILITY, WHETHER IN AN ACTION OF CONTRACT, TORT OR OTHERWISE, ARISING FROM, OUT OF OR IN CONNECTION WITH THE SOFTWARE OR THE USE OR OTHER DEALINGS IN THE SOFTWARE.

"Commons Clause" License Condition v1.0

The Software is provided to you by the Licensor under the License, as defined below, subject to the following condition.

Without limiting other conditions in the License, the grant of rights under the License will not include, and the License does not grant to you, the right to Sell the Software.

For purposes of the foregoing, "Sell" means practicing any or all of the rights granted to you under the License to provide to third parties, for a fee or other consideration (including without limitation fees for hosting or consulting/ support services related to the Software), a product or service whose value derives, entirely or substantially, from the functionality of the Software. Any license notice or attribution required by the License must also include this Commons Clause License Condition notice.

Software: All peach app associated files. License: MIT Licensor: Peach Sàrl

Source: https://github.com/Peach2Peach/peach-app/blob/develop/LICENSE.md

This makes PeachBitcoin one of the best mobile options for exchanging Bitcoin for cash, with no-kyc at the moment ^{(with reasonable limits)}.

PS
Make sure to update to latest Peach version that was released few days ago.

[aoluain]

Just started using PeachBitcoin through the mobile app this week purely for its #kycfree feature.

I can only compare it to HodlHodl and I find PeachBitcoin unbelievably easy to use via the mobile app.

Its interesting that at this stage we are still classed as having "Early Access" after updating to
version 0.3.1.



Just want to say thanks for providing this #kycfree service.

[RickDeckard]

Guess it's time to bump this thread - Peach Bitcoin has been receiving a lot of updates in the past months, anyone interested in the service should definitely check it out. A great catch up of what Peach has been doing is covered on their Christmas blog[1]. They now accept a lot of currencies as well (not active in USA).

Regarding market activity, per the latest blog[1], the service has "more than 15'000 trades completed/117 BTC traded/57'000 buy offers/22'000 sell offers (...)". Keep up the good work!
[1]https://peachbitcoin.com/blog/peachy-christmas-bitcoiners/

[joker_josue]

I don't remember if it was already mentioned, but now it is possible to better manage the addresses used. Automatically, the same address is never used in each transaction, and when depositing money, you can also use new addresses. It is certainly an excellent way to increase transaction privacy.

I have used it for some transactions and I am super satisfied. Excellent app.

[RickDeckard]

I have used it for some transactions and I am super satisfied. Excellent app.

The UI also took a major refresh in order to simply the process and user experience. From a personal perspective I think it simplified the process while making improvement in better showing the available options that the service offers.

[dkbit98]

Guess it's time to bump this thread - Peach Bitcoin has been receiving a lot of updates in the past months, anyone interested in the service should definitely check it out. A great catch up of what Peach has been doing is covered on their Christmas blog[1]. They now accept a lot of currencies as well (not active in USA).

I thought that Peach app was only available in Europe, but I see they started adding a bunch of currencies from Africa and Latin America!
Great to see that Lightning and Liquid network are supported in Peach app, so there is no more excuse for not trading when fees are high, and you can use L-USDT as stablecoin.
They should really add dark mode switch, but otherwise I am impressed with progress they made so far.

[Nrcewker]

Guess it's time to bump this thread - Peach Bitcoin has been receiving a lot of updates in the past months, anyone interested in the service should definitely check it out. A great catch up of what Peach has been doing is covered on their Christmas blog[1]. They now accept a lot of currencies as well (not active in USA).

They are not active in the ASIA region also? Seeing this thread, I thought finally another good and potentially P2P platform has arrived, but was really disappointed after not seeing any Asian currencies or payment method listed here. It would be really great if they can add payment methods from ASIA, as many Asian people really trade a lot in the P2P market due to the high fees imposed by their respective governments. Hence many asian people are avoiding the exchanges regularised by the government.

[dkbit98]

If you think PeachBitcoin is cool than wait until you watch THIS interview with Peach founder Steph, your mind will be blown away.
She is a very cool and smart bitcoiner from Switzerland and with Peach they are keeping everything they earn in Bitcoin, that means no bank account for them.
Make sure to update latest version 0.4.5 (246) Peach app.

They are not active in the ASIA region also?

They recently added support for a bunch of new fiat currencies so maybe you can find yours there also.

[Pmalek]

It's a pity that the app has a daily no-KYC exchange limit of around €1,000 forced upon them because of their Swiss regulator. You can, of course, trade more than that in one day, but you have to undergo KYC. I don't think there is a way to "cheat the system" even if you created a second/third account and used new payment methods. Your name and device info would probably give you away, among other things.

[Pandorak]

Hello, came here from the icopress thread, have looked at the entire platform and finally realized this service is only available for Europe, Latin America and Africa zone. Is it possible in the future for us in Asia, especially Indonesia to use this service?

[Hispo]

Glad to know again from this service.
I decided to give a look at it again because I noticed you restarted your signature campaign and the fact you all decided to finally release your source code to the public and also offer your service to other markets like Latin America.  when previously it was only available for people in Europe.

I will definitely give this application a try if it turns out to be available in the Play Store for me. If I encounter a good volume and also a good interface, I would not even mind to go through Know Your Client process in order to use the application in a little more comfortable conditions.

Also, the design of your website is very good. My personal congratulations to your graphic designers and also your web programmers. Eager to know from this service in the future. 🍑🍑🍑

[dkbit98]

It's a pity that the app has a daily no-KYC exchange limit of around €1,000 forced upon them because of their Swiss regulator. You can, of course, trade more than that in one day, but you have to undergo KYC. I don't think there is a way to "cheat the system" even if you created a second/third account and used new payment methods. Your name and device info would probably give you away, among other things.

This amount is more than enough for most people, unless you are a bitcoin whale  or trader who wants to sell/buy millions all the time.

Hello, came here from the icopress thread, have looked at the entire platform and finally realized this service is only available for Europe, Latin America and Africa zone. Is it possible in the future for us in Asia, especially Indonesia to use this service?

Write them in support or email address.
Owner Steph is great and she is always open for spreading to other regions, if there is enough interest.

 

[JiiBs]

The peach way

Note: I was going to create this for a thread but on second thoughts, I feel it’s best fit to have it in the peach discussion thread since this could serve as some review.
Key:
(…) Dots displayed in this format indicates continuation of some form or removal of sensitive documents.
 
This is largely my observation this far with peach.

In line with my DCA strategy and given what is largely promoted on the forum, I did a brief understudy following what is available to successfully purchase some fractions of Bitcoin using peach and the following unfolded.

PHASE ONE:
It appears in the early hours of today using forum time 7am there about, the peach app was undergoing some maintenance and as such, I had to give it few minutes before I was allowed access to it’s features. During this time of maintenance, there was a notification about restoration of wallet using backup file or seed phrase. It appears I had none of that and this stretched on the importance and need to have them both backed up.
Notably: This wasn’t very much emphasized on during the registration process and truly, it’s as easy as advertised during registration but, if there is a possibility of being logged out by the system, hence the need for a backup, this should be communicated with emphasis on necessary need to do backups.
Suggestion: Just as in wallet creation, emphasis should be made upon account creation, possibly as it is done during the creation of none custodian wallet for file and seed phrase backups.

My Action: I quickly went to the setting icon on the app to backup my recovery file and get my seed phrase to document successfully.

PHASE TWO:
I proceeded to buying of Bitcoin. Here I was met with a different kind of rigor. Perhaps it might largely be due to my not understanding how to work the app but, this is my own encounter.

First thing was choosing a preferred payment currency and proceed to click buy. It opened for me a meter to adjust my buying range.
The app proceeds to ask you what wallet you might want your Bitcoin deposited in, either an external wallet or the peach wallet.
Notably:Here, you have an icon to link an external wallet but, it’s often met with an error message that states:

Code:

peach has detected that the app has run into an unexpected issue, a crash report has been generated…

Manually customize and input external wallet address, the message pops up:
My address is displayed in a bar and the second bar bears this:

Code:

I confirm that only I, peach…, control the address: …

My address is then written out. On a third bar, your required to sign. Of course I tried this using my keys or even wallet password but was unsuccessful as both was said to be invalid. I then proceed to use the peach internal wallet before I was sampled with available vendors in the market with their various offers.

The problem: this was my attempt to use a none custodian wallet and it was a bit unsettling.

suggestion:
While the sales might be displayed in range, there should be a meter that inputs directly what amount you would be purchasing.

My Action: in line of ease of usage and not having a vivid understanding of the process I was going through, I had to abort the whole process.

FINAL PHASE
I logged off unsuccessfully with my buy attempt!

OBSERVATION:
The app doesn’t require you of a password to access, I don’t know what the procedures to sending out a coin is like but, I feel this should be put in place. Especially given the fact that, in the case of having your device accessed by anyone, they could proceed to your peach app and in the peach app, seed phrase and backup files could be accessed with ease and no security question is been asked.
Armed with this, wallet could be imported on another app and funds accessed.
There should be some security to the app upon access.

My brief experience/review of a new user upon first attempt.

[dkbit98]

The app doesn’t require you of a password to access, I don’t know what the procedures to sending out a coin is like but, I feel this should be put in place. Especially given the fact that, in the case of having your device accessed by anyone, they could proceed to your peach app and in the peach app, seed phrase and backup files could be accessed with ease and no security question is been asked.
Armed with this, wallet could be imported on another app and funds accessed.
There should be some security to the app upon access.

It would be a good idea to add password or fingerprint protection to Peach app, but this is not mean to be used as a wallet for long term storage.
You should use Peach for trading only and than move coins to hardware wallet or other type of cold storage.
There is also an option to use External Wallet when accepting offers, just set up a custom address and you are good to go:

[JiiBs]

but this is not mean to be used as a wallet for long term storage.
You should use Peach for trading only and than move coins to hardware wallet or other type of cold storage.

Of course that’s exactly what I was trying to avoid and you can imagine how pleased I was to have seen an external wallet feature on peach. It was an opportunity to leverage as you don’t go through having to pay for transaction fees since, the bought coins would be deposited directly to a none custodian wallet that could serve either of the above options. Armed with this piece of information I went ahead to try and explore the below,

There is also an option to use External Wallet when accepting offers, just set up a custom address and you are good to go:

Tried to use the provided link and the resulting error message is what I have put in the phase two of my earlier comment. Text in code one came up while I tried using the provided link and text in second code was the result of manually trying to customize my address after going some steps through the way.

It would have been a very pleasing feature in the event of a success on my path. Don’t know how other users if there are actually other users that have made success of this would have archived it but, I can say it’s still a nice idea by peach.


In the address label tab, one of the things I did was:
Used my wallet name there in as label and input my address in the second tab also,
I tried using the name I had customized my address with on my wallet for label and input my address in the second tab.

For each of my individual attempts, I was met with the same result and stocked at the same point, not being able to sign the address with my password or seed phrase. Don’t know how I did it wrong but, that was it.

[dkbit98]

For each of my individual attempts, I was met with the same result and stocked at the same point, not being able to sign the address with my password or seed phrase. Don’t know how I did it wrong but, that was it.

I don't understand why you would need to sign address and use password and seed phrase.
This is just external receive address, you don't have to do anything with it, just use one from your hardware wallet or cold storage.
Maybe something is lost in translation since I think you are mot a very fluent English language speaker, and maybe I didn't understand you correctly.

[JiiBs]

I don't understand why you would need to sign address and use password and seed phrase.
This is just external receive address, you don't have to do anything with it, just use one from your hardware wallet or cold storage.
Maybe something is lost in translation since I think you are mot a very fluent English language speaker, and maybe I didn't understand you correctly.

Perhaps that was it but then, here is a screenshot from where I was held. I just had to attempt the process again to access that and my screenshot is just the next phase after the screenshot you uploaded earlier.

At that phase, I was required to sign my address as the arrow indicates but all attempts to do that successfully proved abortive or perhaps I didn’t get them right in what way or what was required to sign my address but, I attempted my password and seed phrase yet, none was successful.

[dkbit98]

At that phase, I was required to sign my address as the arrow indicates but all attempts to do that successfully proved abortive or perhaps I didn’t get them right in what way or what was required to sign my address but, I attempted my password and seed phrase yet, none was successful.

Dude you should NEVER enter your seed phrase and password anywhere!!!
You don't understand how to sign and verify message with bitcoin wallets, but it's nothing complicated.
This is basic bitcoin stuff and I you need to learn it, this proves ownership of your keys and address, it has nothing to do with PeeachBitcoin app.

Here is simple tutorial how to do it with Trezor Suite and trezor hardware wallet, but it's similar with other wallets:
https://trezor.io/learn/a/sign-verify

Here is how to do it with Electrum wallet (older version):
https://medium.com/@bytether/how-to-sign-a-message-with-a-electrum-wallet-121f45f0bb40

[RickDeckard]

For each of my individual attempts, I was met with the same result and stocked at the same point, not being able to sign the address with my password or seed phrase. Don’t know how I did it wrong but, that was it.

I don't understand why you would need to sign address and use password and seed phrase.

If you decide to use the address that the app generates for you, then you are good to go (as in you can receive sats on it without the need to sign).
However, if you do decide to use other address than the one provided to you, and according to Swiss law, you must sign a message that you are in control of the address[1]. You are free to just do this process once (for just a particular trade) or just choose to always receive the funds in a new address[2].

Here is simple tutorial how to do it with Trezor Suite and trezor hardware wallet, but it's similar with other wallets:
https://trezor.io/learn/a/sign-verify

Here is how to do it with Electrum wallet (older version):
https://medium.com/@bytether/how-to-sign-a-message-with-a-electrum-wallet-121f45f0bb40

He can also watch this[3] video from Peach official Youtube account that shows, step by step, what is needed in order to buy bitcoin to an external wallet (using Blue Wallet to sign the message).
[1]https://peachbitcoin.com/faq/trading/#what-if-i-dont-want-to-use-the-peach-wallet-for-the-payout-refund
[2]https://peachbitcoin.com/faq/trading/#how-to-sign-an-external-address
[3]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d3STuVfFWfQ

[JiiBs]

Dude you should NEVER enter your seed phrase and password anywhere!!!

That’s one of the oldest tricks to an address and I feel terrible to have even attempted using my seed phrase to sign an address on a third party site. I guess I’ve just got to discard that now and go ahead to create a new wallet.

This is basic bitcoin stuff and I you need to learn it, this proves ownership of your keys and address, it has nothing to do with PeeachBitcoin app.

Here is simple tutorial how to do it with Trezor Suite and trezor hardware wallet, but it's similar with other wallets:
https://trezor.io/learn/a/sign-verify

Here is how to do it with Electrum wallet (older version):
https://medium.com/@bytether/how-to-sign-a-message-with-a-electrum-wallet-121f45f0bb40

[3]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d3STuVfFWfQ

Oh yeah, thanks guys I guess that’s where I got it wrong in the address signing phase. I felt it was what I would do right there from the peach app but I was wrong. It was for me to sign the address from my wallet and copy paste the signed message for verification, so yeah, I get it now.

By the way, the short tutorial and video was helpful. Wish the video came with a little music/tones to not make a boring watch. Am sure there are a lot of others that should learn from my attempt and misconceptions. Thanks guys!

[icopress]

Friends, Peach can offer favorable conditions to sellers from Switzerland. Let me know if anyone is interested  

In addition, if anyone is interested in making a profit as an investor, you can also contact me.