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Author Topic: [banned mixer] - Bitcoin mixer | 50+ BTC in reserves are confirmed!  (Read 2152 times)
ABCbits
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November 16, 2023, 09:36:58 AM
 #41

· requests from external fonts, such as: Fonts.googleapis.com and Fonts.gstatic.com were eliminated, both in the clearnet version of the site and in the onion version. [banned mixer] service no longer uploads any third-party, external files.

We kindly ask the following users to correct their early comments/notes in view of the current state of the service: --snip other user-- @ETFbitcoin

I can confirm now clearnet version also doesn't make request data to external website. I've edited my posts.

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LoyceV
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November 16, 2023, 09:37:46 AM
 #42

We kindly ask the following users to correct their early comments/notes in view of the current state of the service: @LoyceV
My feedback was accurate, and my neutral feedback on your profile stays. There's nothing to "correct". You're in the trust business. You lied, I'll never trust you.

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PureMixerio (OP)
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November 17, 2023, 10:41:26 AM
 #43

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This is really great news. I don’t think there is a more effective tool for resolving any disputes than a letter of guarantee.  Smiley
Hello, Icopress! We fully share your opinion on this. Smiley

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Despite the fact that my opinion may be subjective, it still seems to me that I speak for the majority. I remember that initially you made some statements regarding your reserves, statements to which trusted forum users were quite skeptical.

Therefore, I suggest that you consider selecting one or two users and showing them a signed message confirming the availability of your reserves. I am also sure that there is no need to confirm the full amount of your Bitcoin reserves, since I understand perfectly well that technically this can be problematic.

But at the same time, I am inclined to think that confirming at least 30% of your reserves will add significance to previously spoken words and at the same time demonstrate the seriousness of your intentions to thoroughly gain a foothold in this niche of privacy-oriented projects.

I would recommend that you choose LoyceV, since I don't know anyone who values their or others' privacy more. This user is also one of the most trusted users of the forum, so I believe that this is the most suitable candidate. Of course, you can also choose me to check a signed ... I could tell a lot of good things about myself, but I'm afraid that it would not be ethical (so you will have to rely only on the feedback history about me).
Yes, we stated that the maximum amount that a client can mix in our mixer is 56 BTC. We have not made statements regarding the reserve directly. But yes, the fact that the maximum amount we have declared for mixing = 56 BTC suggests that at least this amount should be in our reserve. Some trusted users do not believe in the presence of 56 BTC in our reserve - we agree. We ourselves have given them reason to think so in the past. Well... we are ready to go for it and sign part of our bitcoin reserves (if it is really that important to you guys). It will not be easy to sign "technically" the entire amount, yes, but it is possible. But another thing is that a certain amount scattered over many wallets, as a result of mixing, leads to users, and it will be impossible to sign it for other reasons, namely: for reasons of confidentiality and our "No Log" principle, since a certain number of bitcoins have been mixed and sent to users during our existence. Therefore, in fact, we will get into their "pocket" and undermine their anonymity, which is unacceptable to us and which we will never resort to under any circumstances. We hope you understand and appreciate it. Smiley

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Now I was looking at your calculator and I'm surprised that the only offered calculation option is in dollars. Isn't Bitcoin being mixed here, not Dollars and are the mixed coins I receive converted according to the BTC/USD ratio?
Our main motivation to implement the calculator in USD, rather than in BTC, was that all our competitors (who have a calculator) - the calculation goes in BTC. And we decided to stand out so that users have a choice: use the calculator in USD or in BTC.

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You forgot to add the fixed fee per address "It varies from 0.5% to 2.5% + 0.0005 BTC per each target address."
0.0005 BTC - for a reason. For this fee, the client can receive his funds from several transactions, even if he filled out an order form with one address to receive (this does not matter). + Our service always sends a transaction to the user with a sufficient Sat/b commission (including to avoid network congestion, which we are currently observing). This is so, for general understanding. Thank you.

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Your service had some real issues that needed fixing.  But hey, at least you're admitting now that you messed up and accepting well-intentioned criticism. Better late than never, right? It's good that you want to improve things moving forward.  I respect that.
Right. Wink

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I don't think now's a good time to evaluate your mixing service considering the issues with Bitcoin network congestion lately.  But maybe you could organize some kind of contest or campaign to get people on this forum to test out and review your service? Get a handful of members to try it out and give feedback and  that might help generate some buzz.
We can hold some kind of competition or distribution of deposits to test the service. There are no problems with this. But this "action" should be carried out after the weakening of the Bitcoin network commissions. I think you will agree with us.

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My feedback was accurate, and my neutral feedback on your profile stays. There's nothing to "correct". You're in the trust business. You lied, I'll never trust you.
- Yes, your feedback at that time was accurate. We don't argue. But now everything has changed, and we just asked to edit the message in view of the current state of the service. If you don't want to do it, don't. This is not so fundamental.
- In fact, we didn't lie to you and all the users of the forum. First of all, we lied to ourselves in view of our incorrect vision on this score. Note that after your constructive explanation to us about the letter of guarantee and the essence of its importance, we did not continue to discuss and "bend our line of truth" as we took this into account, realized and developed it and eventually corrected it and admitted the mistake. This is about the letter of guarantee.

You also publicly expressed the following:
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Or, and that's my bet, you don't own 56 BTC, which makes this an exit scam waiting to happen.
And we are ready to eradicate this doubt. Many refer to you so that we sign bitcoins for you. And as we answered above, we are ready for it.

We are ready to sign a message about the availability of reserves not only to LoyceV. We also give you the right to choose one more trusted forum member whom you prefer for this purpose. Will wait.
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November 17, 2023, 11:19:56 AM
 #44

Yes, your feedback at that time was accurate. We don't argue. But now everything has changed, and we just asked to edit the message in view of the current state of the service.
My feedback has a time stamp. If I ever need to update it, I'll add another one.

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we didn't lie to you and all the users of the forum. First of all, we lied to ourselves
You're not making this any better....

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Or, and that's my bet, you don't own 56 BTC, which makes this an exit scam waiting to happen.
And we are ready to eradicate this doubt. Many refer to you so that we sign bitcoins for you. And as we answered above, we are ready for it.
Great! Sign a message proving you owned 56 Bitcoin on April 15, 2023. And, assuming the funds have moved, even better if you sign another message proving you still own those funds. If you do, I'll confirm ownership in this topic without posting any addresses.
Feel free to PM me (but know that Cloudflare can read this), or send an end-to-end encrypted email to my Protonmail.

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We are ready to sign a message about the availability of reserves not only to LoyceV. We also give you the right to choose one more trusted forum member whom you prefer for this purpose.
This makes no sense. Anyone who trusts me, would trust my word for it. Anyone who doesn't trust me, also wouldn't trust whoever I pick. So I'm not picking anyone.

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icopress
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November 17, 2023, 11:42:33 AM
 #45

Great! Sign a message proving you owned 56 Bitcoin on April 15, 2023. [...]
I’m not sure that this is necessary if a message is signed confirming the availability of reserves at the moment.


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November 17, 2023, 12:18:17 PM
Last edit: November 17, 2023, 01:58:12 PM by LoyceV
 #46

I’m not sure that this is necessary if a message is signed confirming the availability of reserves at the moment.
OP wanted to remove all doubt I had about this on April 15. It is indeed not necessary to prove current ownership.

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examplens
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November 17, 2023, 12:44:03 PM
 #47

Our main motivation to implement the calculator in USD, rather than in BTC, was that all our competitors (who have a calculator) - the calculation goes in BTC. And we decided to stand out so that users have a choice: use the calculator in USD or in BTC.

You can have USD as an option in the calculator, but I don't see the possibility of choosing BTC. The service is mixing BTC, not FIAT, it is clear from the story why all competitors use it that way. This is a suggestion, not an attack, and it is up to you how you will do it.

How absurd it is, here is an example. I got the result that on the mixed 1000 USD, I get back 995 USD, but I have to calculate -0.0005 BTC on that. In doing so, which Bitcoin exchange rate did you take into account? A simple thing, but so complicated that I'm losing interest in using your service



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We are ready to sign a message about the availability of reserves not only to LoyceV. We also give you the right to choose one more trusted forum member whom you prefer for this purpose.
This makes no sense. Anyone who trusts me, would trust my word for it. Anyone who doesn't trust me, also wouldn't trust whoever I pick. So I'm not picking anyone.

@ETFbitcoin was recently active in this thread. As they have a proven knowledge of Bitcoin, I suggest them as another member for this verification. If he wants, of course.

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PureMixerio (OP)
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November 17, 2023, 08:17:36 PM
 #48

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@ETFbitcoin was recently active in this thread. As they have a proven knowledge of Bitcoin, I suggest them as another member for this verification. If he wants, of course.
@ETFbitcoin, are you in business?  Smiley
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November 18, 2023, 12:46:31 AM
Merited by FatFork (1)
 #49

So I'll be as brief as possible.

- I received 8 signed messages, each of which included my name and the current date.
- The balances of 8 Bitcoin addresses were replenished at approximately the same time and contained a total of more than 50 Bitcoins.
- All signatures are authentic and verified using Electrum so I confirm that PureMixer has significant Bitcoin reserves.

I hope Loyce will join us and will also let you know if he received a similar letter from PureMixer.

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November 18, 2023, 01:07:11 AM
 #50

So I'll be as brief as possible.

- I received 8 signed messages, each of which included my name and the current date.
- The balances of 8 Bitcoin addresses were replenished at approximately the same time and contained a total of more than 50 Bitcoins.
- All signatures are authentic and verified using Electrum so I confirm that PureMixer has significant Bitcoin reserves.

I hope Loyce will join us and will also let you know if he received a similar letter from PureMixer.
We thank icopress for his cooperation. Wink

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I hope Loyce will join us and will also let you know if he received a similar letter from PureMixer.
Yes, we sent an identical letter confirming the reserves to the user LoyceV. We also expect ETFbitcoin if he shows interest in this.

we also want to note that icopress and LoyceV were informed in order to permanently delete the signed message after checking and making sure of its legitimacy.

Best regards, PureMixer team
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November 18, 2023, 08:22:46 AM
Merited by examplens (1), ABCbits (1), FatFork (1)
 #51

- I received 8 signed messages, each of which included my name and the current date.
Confirmed.

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- The balances of 8 Bitcoin addresses were replenished at approximately the same time and contained a total of more than 50 Bitcoins.
Confirmed. I want to add that the addresses were funded recently. This proves access to funds at this moment.

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- All signatures are authentic and verified using Electrum
Confirmed.

we also want to note that icopress and LoyceV were informed in order to permanently delete the signed message after checking and making sure of its legitimacy.
That seems futile after sending it through Cloudflare, but I've deleted the PM. Note that the PM stays on the forum's server until you delete it from your outbox.

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November 18, 2023, 08:24:11 AM
 #52

I'll add here my two cents, if I may. I remember I read about this company back in April, yet it seems things are changed now.

I was not involved in this discussion since its beginning, but I kept an eye on it.

What I want to add here is that icopress is, for sure, a very trustworthy forum user and he received many appreciations for his professionalism during years. If he says he received the signed messages I believe him.

At same time, LV is another very trustworthy forum user and, in case he will also confirm the messages from PureMixer all doubts are solved.

Both of them are persons which I'd trust to cash out my salary each month and I'd be more than sure they would give me my money back.

Later edit: Loyce posted just when I was writing this and it seems we have his confirmation as well.

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November 18, 2023, 09:25:45 AM
 #53

Quote
I hope Loyce will join us and will also let you know if he received a similar letter from PureMixer.
Yes, we sent an identical letter confirming the reserves to the user LoyceV. We also expect ETFbitcoin if he shows interest in this.

we also want to note that icopress and LoyceV were informed in order to permanently delete the signed message after checking and making sure of its legitimacy.

Best regards, PureMixer team

Sorry, i'm not interested to verify it. More member trust @LoyceV than me and in terms of technical knowledge, there are also some member who outperform me.

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November 18, 2023, 09:59:00 AM
 #54

Over my time on this forum, I've witnessed enough to confidently vouch for the trustworthiness of both icopress and LoyceV in this matter. I trust their judgment and their assurance that they've verified the signed messages validating the [banned mixer] reserve funds.

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BC.GAME
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November 18, 2023, 01:49:51 PM
Last edit: November 18, 2023, 02:49:09 PM by xtests
Merited by LoyceV (4)
 #55

we also want to note that icopress and LoyceV were informed in order to permanently delete the signed message after checking and making sure of its legitimacy.
That seems futile after sending it through Cloudflare, but I've deleted the PM. Note that the PM stays on the forum's server until you delete it from your outbox.

Very interesting that OP was loudly opposing to provide the signed proof of reserves highlighting risks of undermining security of mixing operations and their users, but then simply sends the sensitive data over a state-controlled unencrypted communication channel, instead of relying on a more secure alternative offered (email that supports end-to-end encryption). It's either hypocrisy or incompetence.
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November 18, 2023, 02:19:31 PM
 #56

/.../
It's either hypocrisy or incompetence.

Playing devil's advocate here. Smiley Maybe OP just thinks there's a different level of sharing classified stuff here? Sharing info through messages that the government might see later is one thing.  But publishing it for all to easily find is something else. 

Anyone using the service can probably guess the original addresses and wallets from the transactions.  But that ain't the same as having the concrete prof, signed address out there for all to see clear as day.  thats a whole different thing putting it out there like that.

Just thinking out loud over here.

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November 18, 2023, 02:57:33 PM
Last edit: November 18, 2023, 03:08:13 PM by xtests
 #57

/.../
It's either hypocrisy or incompetence.

Maybe OP just thinks there's a different level of sharing classified stuff here?


Maybe. But I personally think OP clearly doesn't realize the threat model they will have to face and counter.

Given also how long time it took for OP to understand the importance and rationale of LoG, I'd say the OP is relatively new in this industry without significant experience in operational/informational security and probably doesn't understand their threat model's top element is state. I would think twice trusting this service any sensitive information such as UTXO flows since I doubt they can provide a security level required for operating a mixer.

A new mixer of course is always welcome, but the problem here is that if the operator isn't experienced enough, significant gaps in security and IT knowledge may cost their users serious problems later, since it usually takes one mistake to have the whole operation compromised when your enemy is state. Note that ability to code a mixer doesn't mean ability to secure operations properly.

I would expect something like this after a first subpoena or letter from FBI on their email:

Quote from: %MIXER_NAME%
Dear all, the current maintainers of %MIXER_NAME% have decided to no longer continue.

Please withdraw your money from the current custodian before %DATE%.

If you have issues, do not email, post them here.

Kind regards,

Or even worse - them being investigated low-profile then suddely having their servers seized with all the customer data compromised. Happened to some of the best in case you are familiar with historical events of services on this forum Smiley
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November 18, 2023, 03:23:25 PM
Merited by xtests (1)
 #58

A new mixer of course is always welcome, but the problem here is that if the operator isn't experienced enough, significant gaps in security and IT knowledge may cost their users serious problems later, since it usually takes one mistake to have the whole operation compromised when your enemy is state. Note that ability to code a mixer doesn't mean ability to secure operations properly.

After reading everything here, I gotta say I'm on the same page about this. One obvious example was using fonts and stuff from third-party sites. Like, who needs fancy fonts on a bitcoin mixer? Even newbie coders know that crap can be used to track people.  If they're making such basic screw-ups, I dunno how much I trust PureMixer to really know what they're doing running this kinda biz.  Im no security expert that's just my take, but it's enough to make me skeptical.   

They say it's untraceable but that seems kinda suspect if they cant even figure out simple opsec stuff and  maybe the tech is solid but they just suck at web dev, idk.  Still though, makes me nervous to use them.  You'd think they could hire someone who understands privacy basics. 

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November 19, 2023, 07:52:56 PM
 #59

- I received 8 signed messages, each of which included my name and the current date.
Confirmed.

Quote
- The balances of 8 Bitcoin addresses were replenished at approximately the same time and contained a total of more than 50 Bitcoins.
Confirmed. I want to add that the addresses were funded recently. This proves access to funds at this moment.

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- All signatures are authentic and verified using Electrum
Confirmed.

Thank you LoyceV for your cooperation Wink

We want to note once again that this was only part of the reserves, albeit a large one. The remaining amount of reserves of ~3.7 BTC is scattered across many wallets and leads to users, which we understandably did not resort to for signing. Thanks and best regards!

I'll add here my two cents, if I may. I remember I read about this company back in April, yet it seems things are changed now.

I was not involved in this discussion since its beginning, but I kept an eye on it.

What I want to add here is that icopress is, for sure, a very trustworthy forum user and he received many appreciations for his professionalism during years. If he says he received the signed messages I believe him.

At same time, LV is another very trustworthy forum user and, in case he will also confirm the messages from PureMixer all doubts are solved.

Both of them are persons which I'd trust to cash out my salary each month and I'd be more than sure they would give me my money back.

Later edit: Loyce posted just when I was writing this and it seems we have his confirmation as well.
This is just the beginning. Smiley Thanks!

Quote
Very interesting that OP was loudly opposing to provide the signed proof of reserves highlighting risks of undermining security of mixing operations and their users, but then simply sends the sensitive data over a state-controlled unencrypted communication channel, instead of relying on a more secure alternative offered (email that supports end-to-end encryption). It's either hypocrisy or incompetence.

Yes, at that time we didn't want to sign the message. and the reason for this was not the method of sending subscription messages, but to whom we will sign it. We didn't like the fact of signing bitcoins to people unknown to us. But we ourselves brought the situation to such a "boiling point" that it really became necessary to sign bitcoins. And we signed bitcoins to those users whom the majority of the forum trust.
Regarding the method of sending: you are reasoning hypothetically (that, they say, law enforcement agencies could notice this message), and when the reasoning is hypothetical, no probabilities can be excluded. So yes, there is a chance of this, but let's be honest, it's close to 0, because it doesn't work quite like that (that companies keep records of everything and everything). In addition, the correspondence lasted only a few hours, since on both sides (both from ours and from the users to whom the messages were signed), the dialogue was irrevocably erased.

Quote
Given also how long time it took for OP to understand the importance and rationale of LoG, I'd say the OP is relatively new in this industry without significant experience in operational/informational security and probably doesn't understand their threat model's top element is state. I would think twice trusting this service any sensitive information such as UTXO flows since I doubt they can provide a security level required for operating a mixer.

We have built our tool with dignity and in accordance with the privacy parameters. We have acted carefully, taking into account any possible outcome of this case (including the worst if the FBI liquidates our servers), and in this regard we have taken counter measures, in view of which you as users will not need to worry about data leakage. One of such significant actions on our part is that we have deployed servers in a territory that is outside the jurisdiction of the US government and most EU countries. Our service flawlessly and fully copes with one and the main task: it makes a complete break of the blockchain between incoming addresses from you and outgoing addresses to you. By traditional mixing. Where in return you will receive completely alien and unrelated coins in the past.
We, as service operators, fully cope with one and the main task that already comes from us: we permanently erase user logs after a successfully rendered service.
As for the letter of guarantee, the issue has been resolved. The problem has been fixed. Not a single user has been harmed during the long months of our service. There's no need to stir up the past.

Quote
Or even worse - them being investigated low-profile then suddely having their servers seized with all the customer data compromised. Happened to some of the best in case you are familiar with historical events of services on this forum Smiley

All of us (Bitcoin mixers) are under such a blow. The question is different: how well the operators have prepared for this strike. We repeat: our servers are located outside the jurisdiction of the USA and most EU countries. Accordingly, they will not be able to get legitimate access to our servers by a court decision. Based on this: they can either simply liquidate our servers and only, or go further and maliciously seize and gain access to our servers. But if they do that (which is possible) then they will not be able to bring it to the media and will not be able to get a warrant in order to fully investigate the case, since they got access to our servers illegally. Based on all this, we can conclude that it would be better for us, as service operators, not to keep any logs regarding users.
And yes, everyone's favorite CM, which was liquidated in the spring of this year: stored records of personal data of customers weighing 7 TB Smiley. We assume that the operator of this mixer intentionally saved and accumulated information about orders, so that in case of proceedings with the authorities, he could rely on the "crutch" from the collected data of these orders, in order to offer this data in response to some kind of leniency. Arranged a kind of "airbag". And he can be understood, because he is a citizen of a neutral country for various jurisdictions, to whom they could easily send an extradition request.

Quote
After reading everything here, I gotta say I'm on the same page about this. One obvious example was using fonts and stuff from third-party sites. Like, who needs fancy fonts on a bitcoin mixer? Even newbie coders know that crap can be used to track people.  If they're making such basic screw-ups, I dunno how much I trust PureMixer to really know what they're doing running this kinda biz.  Im no security expert that's just my take, but it's enough to make me skeptical.

You wrote about fonts. Well... CryptoMixer after more than 7 years of work still sends requests for fonts (and for some reason no one talks about it Huh). ETFbitcoin user kindly pointed this point out to us and made us realize that it is better to eliminate it. Which we actually did.
We think that when experienced users find "holes" and shortcomings in a newly-minted service, this is completely normal. After all, forums of this kind like BitcoinTalk are also designed for this, so that the community with their knowledge in different fields and points of view - to bring the service to perfection.

Sincerely, PureMixer team BTC
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November 20, 2023, 09:34:02 AM
 #60

In addition, the correspondence lasted only a few hours
Note that Cloudflare can't read Bitcointalk's servers. It can only read messages when they pass through:
Cloudflare can read everything you send to or receive from the server, including your cleartext password and any PMs you send or look at. They can't access the database arbitrarily, though: they can only see data that passes over the Internet.

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