Restrict newbies from posting in the lending board?

[DireWolfM14]

I don't know how keen theymos would be to implement this suggestion, but it would be nice if newbies weren't allowed to post in the lending board.  Recently there's been a rash of trolling and spam in the lending board all because (at least one) newbies are refusing to accept reasonable advice or take "no" for an answer.  I'm of the opinion that it's all due to one troll with multiple alts, but that's irrelevant.

If someone registers an account just to request a no-collateral loan then he's not contributing to the forum, he's detracting from it.  If he has collateral, then he can afford to buy a copper membership and post a request for a collateralized loan, or send a specific lender a PM requesting a collateralized loan.  Or, god forbid, he can create an account to actually read, ask questions, learn, and contribute, which may cause him to earn a merit or two.  Then ask for a loan if needed.  

Not to mention all the ponzi scammers posing as "businesses" asking for stupid sums, promising stupider returns.

No lenders are giving out loans to these accounts, and I'm guessing most wouldn't miss them from spamming their threads.

Benefits:

• Less trolling and spam in the lending board
• Fewer repetitive posts
• No impact on legitimate lending operations
• Possible reduction in scams
• Instant reduction in feeble scam attempts

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[hugeblack]

+ 1, I support this proposal.
If all newbie members who apply for a loan end up with a negative trust, it is better to restrict posting to jrmember accounts, will greatly reduce spam.

If this is not possible, a warning message like what happens in the Investor-based games board will suffice.

[Cantsay]

I, too, am in support of this.

Tagging newbie accounts that are looking for a non-collateral loan is pointless because they can easily create another one and continue being a nuisance; restricting them would save DT and lenders a lot of stress.

Just only on the first page you'll see so many newbie with less than 30 posts already looking for loans, take this user for example, he/she has made up to 257 posts in the lending board ^{according to ninjastic.space} and the posting still continues even after been tagged he still insist on asking for his £500 loan.

[ChuckBuck]

I don't know how keen theymos would be to implement this suggestion, but it would be nice if newbies weren't allowed to post in the lending board.  Recently there's been a rash of trolling and spam in the lending board all because (at least one) newbies are refusing to accept reasonable advice or take "no" for an answer.  I'm of the opinion that it's all due to one troll with multiple alts, but that's irrelevant.

+1 for this point, I was thinking of a small case, if the newbie is someone who is willing to lend to make a profit, even though its rate is very low. But if he already has money to lend to others, he can totally afford to put down a small amount of money to become a co-member. So, it is very reasonable to limit newbies in participating in the loan table 

But technically I'm not sure the admin is willing to do it, this forum wasn't originally designed to restrict users to any boards, this requires him to change the code a bit and maybe it's more complicated than we thought 

[dzungmobile]

If someone registers an account just to request a no-collateral loan then he's not contributing to the forum, he's detracting from it.  If he has collateral, then he can afford to buy a copper membership and post a request for a collateralized loan, or send a specific lender a PM requesting a collateralized loan.  Or, god forbid, he can create an account to actually read, ask questions, learn, and contribute, which may cause him to earn a merit or two.  Then ask for a loan if needed.  

• Borrowers
  
  • Should be restricted with some 'not too hard' conditions to be posted in Lending board, I agree with you.
  • Like those Rules for Serious Discussion and Ivory Tower]

  • - You must be at least a Jr Member to post in Serious Discussion, and a Full Member to post in Ivory Tower.
    

• Lenders
  
  • Should not be restricted, even they are newbies

[Despairo]

I understand if the moderators don't want to delete the lending post in order to become an evidence if the user ever ask for a loan, but it doesn't make sense how the moderators didn't taking any action when someone ask a loan for 3 times with a different time frame, another solution is lock the topic and the thread will start to down.

Hello i need 0.03 btc loan
Need 0.04 btc
Hello as possible loan 0.03 btc

Asking member to buy a copper membership will make them to spend more money, it's not really good for the borrower.

I can't vote yes or no regarding this matter because I have never lend any single dollar to newbie account. I think we need to wait few veteran lenders if they have experienced to lend a money to newbie account and the newbie pay back the money based on the previous agreement.

[Charles-Tim]

Anyone can come to this forum to lend (I do not mean borrow). Very possible that no lenders are newbies, but there is possibility that a newbie can lend to people in need. If this request is granted, this kind of people will be affected.

The second thing is that scam is not moderated. This can make admin and moderators to neglect this request.

[acroman08]

If someone registers an account just to request a no-collateral loan then he's not contributing to the forum, he's detracting from it.  If he has collateral, then he can afford to buy a copper membership and post a request for a collateralized loan, or send a specific lender a PM requesting a collateralized loan.  Or, god forbid, he can create an account to actually read, ask questions, learn, and contribute, which may cause him to earn a merit or two.  Then ask for a loan if needed.  

• Borrowers
  
  • Should be restricted with some 'not too hard' conditions to be posted in Lending board, I agree with you.
  • Like those Rules for Serious Discussion and Ivory Tower]

  • - You must be at least a Jr Member to post in Serious Discussion, and a Full Member to post in Ivory Tower.
    

• Lenders
  
  • Should not be restricted, even they are newbies

but then how would the forum would know who to restrict at the get-go? do newbies need to be restricted as a default and would only be exempted once someone, a mod or a staff verified that the newbie was in that board to actually post a lending thread?

[Jawhead999]

but then how would the forum would know who to restrict at the get-go? do newbies need to be restricted as a default and would only be exempted once someone, a mod or a staff verified that the newbie was in that board to actually post a lending thread?

If we refer to restrictions on serious discussion and ivory tower boards, the restrictions apply to all newbie accounts and there's no exception even the newbie had 10 positive feedback, become D1 member etc. But this restriction is lighter since they only need to buy a copper membership to post an offer on lending board.

Although someone who bought a copper membership rank aren't always legit, but this might reduce troll because someone can create a new account without pay anything and immediately post a crazy request.

[Rikafip]

+1. Even though chances are slim as we know theymos doesn't like restricting newbies.

Very possible that no lenders are newbies, but there is possibility that a newbie can lend to people in need. If this request is granted, this kind of people will be affected.

Was there ever a case when newbie created lending topic and actually started lending the money to people in need?

The second thing is that scam is not moderated. This can make admin and moderators to neglect this request.

This request has nothing to do with that.

[Charles-Tim]

Very possible that no lenders are newbies, but there is possibility that a newbie can lend to people in need. If this request is granted, this kind of people will be affected.

Was there ever a case when newbie created lending topic and actually started lending the money to people in need?

I mean the possibility of newbies to lend

The second thing is that scam is not moderated. This can make admin and moderators to neglect this request.

This request has nothing to do with that.

Newbies that are not worth borrowing money, nothing to lose. I finalize it as scam attempt. We all know that the possibility of scam is high from the newbies because they have nothing to lose. The reputed members see the posts as unworthy.

[yahoo62278]

I doubt the rule you want will be implemented. It's obvious that these users asking for no collateral loans have 0 intention to repay the loan they are asking for and it's just as easy for you to skip the thread. Not all newbies are broke either, some may just have the collateral needed for a loan.

[LoyceV]

As much as I'd like to see more restrictions for Newbies, I think theymos has a point:

The things on the forum which encourage spam are allowed mainly because it's part of the forum's mission to be as free as possible.
~snip~

Limiting newbie participation is very harmful for a community. ~ When barriers to participation are too high, then the best people often just won't go to the trouble of joining, and the people who are willing to jump through the hoops are often people who aren't good for the community: people with nothing better to do, scammers, get-rick-quickers, etc. Having a permanent newbie jail policy would improve things a lot in the short-term, but would end up being a fatal poison to the community.

I'd say it's much better if people stop off-topic posts in response. There's no need to tell them they should try their bank because they don't have collateral, and there's no need to tell them they won't get a loan. Just ignore the topic.
The same goes for the Currency exchange board, and I'm guilty of it too. When a Newbie scammer asks to buy 500,000 Bitcoins in cash, once in a while I can't stop myself from responding. As long as scams aren't moderated, I'm with eddie13 on this:

Should never have put the temporary illusion of safety above personal liberty..
ie tagging and chasing away “likely scammers” and crushing the unique economic dynamic of account sales..

This forum started acting like protecting idiots is more important than letting users express their free wills..

How many countless good and intelligent users have been chased away because they “might” scam..

Look at it from a Newbie's perspective: he joins a forum, and sees all those people loaded with Bitcoin handing out money! "I want in on that!" is a natural reaction.
I think we should stop protecting people from taking risks: if they're dumb enough to send their money to a Newbie with no forum history, they're on their own.

[mk4]

This is such a no-brainer that I'm surprised you might be the first one who created this proposal. Agree with hugeblack that posting on the Lending board should be Member rank by default. Jr member rank is still too easy to attain.

+1 full support.

[Asuspawer09]

+1 That would make sense because you're gonna need some trust to apply for a loan, it would prevent spamming and tagging which I think is the best thing to do. I mean no one would actually approve a loan of a newbie here for sure.

Just only on the first page you'll see so many newbie with less than 30 posts already looking for loans, take this user for example, he/she has made up to 257 posts in the lending board ^{according to ninjastic.space} and the posting still continues even after been tagged he still insist on asking for his £500 loan.

I guess having a certain number of posts would be great, like 300 post minimum so that they have some leverage to be able to post on the lending section.

[Dr.Bitcoin_Strange]

Benefits:

• Less trolling and spam in the lending board
• Fewer repetitive posts
• No impact on legitimate lending operations
• Possible reduction in scams
• Instant reduction in feeble scam attempts

I support the suggestion. In the month of March, a newbie started a thread in the Beginners and Help board, I guess. He was complaining about how he could not get a loan from the bank after he offered to give them his university certificate as collateral, and he was thinking he could get a non coletaral loan here. Some members were suggesting he go through the lending board, but some members also specifically told him he could not get a loan here either, because he was just a newbie. So what I am trying to say is that some members here just think that any newbie could get a loan on the lending board, and when they make suggestions, they don't specify that a newbie cannot get a non-coletaral loan from the lending board, and it's those kinds of suggestions without warning that bring most of these newbies to the lending board.
 Some newbies are not smart enough to quickly discover the lending board on the first day they join the forum, they are able to do so with the help of some suggestions. it would be good if this your idea is being implemented.

[TheUltraElite]

I see the benefits but I think a newbie with a valid collateral deserves a loan, provided the lender double checks the validity and the value of the collateral and considers the risks involved to outweigh the benefit of the business.

If the "Guild of Bitcointalk Lenders" make it strict that they will not lend to a newbie without a collateral then I dont think this restriction is necessary. They can weed out these threads or put the pesky newbies on "Ignore" mode.

Usually you can spammed on all social media DMs if you are lender and have those handles. It shows then and there that the person is desperate for money and most of them are without collateral.
With all due respect, I am pretty sure that all the lenders here would immediately jump in on a loan request from a newbie who provides a valid collateral, if that ever happens in real. I myself would, no shame in that, having a background of being a lender myself.

[Aanuoluwatofunmi]

I don't know how keen theymos would be to implement this suggestion, but it would be nice if newbies weren't allowed to post in the lending board.

I've recently come across some threads that were about asking on why some boards were being restricted on newbies, to say the fact it's not every board is a newbie expected to post on because they are just that newbie they were being called, in lending, you will discover many threads whereby a newly registered newbie is demanding for loan permit without even taking his time to read the loan requirements for application, will this type of newbie now finds it a thing to do in reading the forum's rules and regulations if they can even read the rules on the thread they are posting on? Restricting them will do more better in controlling spam and trollings.

[PowerGlove]

[...]

Like mk4 said, this is a total no-brainer; +1 all day long.

I get that this runs afoul of theymos' mission to make the forum as free as possible, and that is a principle I largely agree with, but there's no universe in which this particular proposal would cause more harm than good.

[DireWolfM14]

As much as I'd like to see more restrictions for Newbies, I think theymos has a point:

The things on the forum which encourage spam are allowed mainly because it's part of the forum's mission to be as free as possible.
~snip~

Limiting newbie participation is very harmful for a community. ~ When barriers to participation are too high, then the best people often just won't go to the trouble of joining, and the people who are willing to jump through the hoops are often people who aren't good for the community: people with nothing better to do, scammers, get-rick-quickers, etc. Having a permanent newbie jail policy would improve things a lot in the short-term, but would end up being a fatal poison to the community.

I don't see limiting newbies' ability to post in the lending board as having a big affect on the forum.  Certainly not in the way theymos' quoted comments suggests it might.  Real users who create new accounts aren't coming here for handouts, and their ability to ask pertinent questions and learn from the community aren't going to be hampered by the inability to post in the lending board.

As much as I agree with the intent and sentiment of theymos's comment (and I do tremendously,) I don't think this comment applicable to my suggestion.

I'd say it's much better if people stop off-topic posts in response. There's no need to tell them they should try their bank because they don't have collateral, and there's no need to tell them they won't get a loan. Just ignore the topic.
The same goes for the Currency exchange board, and I'm guilty of it too. When a Newbie scammer asks to buy 500,000 Bitcoins in cash, once in a while I can't stop myself from responding.

I'm guilty also, and honestly I feel dirty every time I snap at one of these newbies with the same drivel that I've posted numerous times.  I certainly don't want to give the appearance that I'm spamming my signature all over the lending board, but I'm not so sure others have the same reservation.

As long as scams aren't moderated, I'm with eddie13 on this:

Should never have put the temporary illusion of safety above personal liberty..
ie tagging and chasing away “likely scammers” and crushing the unique economic dynamic of account sales..

This forum started acting like protecting idiots is more important than letting users express their free wills..

How many countless good and intelligent users have been chased away because they “might” scam..

I absolutely 100% agree with eddie13 here, but again how applicable is this to the trends of newbies in the lending board?  Most who post a loan request within their first few posts get red-tagged, and don't come back anyway.  Any who come here only for the loan aren't likely to participate in other discussions regardless, so there's nothing lost.  If a newbie comes here only to request a loan and finds that he's incapable of posting a loan request, one of two things are likely to happen: He'll contribute to the forum until he is capable of posting his loan request, or he'll hit the road and never come back.  If it's the former, that would actually help the forum and in the process the newbie might realize there's more to this forum than a potential hand-out.  If it's the latter, then end result is the same as if newbie got red-tagged then took off.  

Look at it from a Newbie's perspective: he joins a forum, and sees all those people loaded with Bitcoin handing out money! "I want in on that!" is a natural reaction.
I think we should stop protecting people from taking risks: if they're dumb enough to send their money to a Newbie with no forum history, they're on their own.

My suggestion isn't about protecting lenders or preventing defaulted loans, the lenders are quite capable of taking care of themselves.  My suggestion is about reducing spam and trolling, and keeping the lending board a clean and practical place to conduct business.