Bitcoin is "dying".

[macson]

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I created a thread asking people what they think bitcoin will stabilize enough to become a currency for people to use and literally everyone said to me that it's an asset and it will never stabilize. And, don't get me wrong, sounds logical and I agree with that.
But if we treat Bitcoin like this, why are we waiting for the "mass adoption" and want businesses to accept Bitcoin that is not stable in any means to use it as a currency?

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So considering all this, it looks like crypto right now is moving to centralization and control over our funds. Bitcoin is just an asset to people and I don't see how everyone can use it as a currency.
That's why I think that bitcoin Ideas are dying.

i'm sure you've heard of the smallest unit of bitcoin, that's sats, where businesses that accept payments with bitcoin use that smallest unit, transactions with bitcoin feel easy and comfortable before disruptions like today, yeah the annoyance i mean is brc-20, they use sats then insert files there and if it's not stopped then the mempool will be heavy.

You can read in the bitcoin whitepaper that the things that many people are worried about have been predicted in such a way by satoshi, so it is very important to maintain the purity of bitcoin.

[o48o]

But you can't blame people for having different idea and using bitcoin as they want. Especially when it absolutely thrives on idea of permissionless transactions that guarantees people the freedom to use it as they like.

Most bitcoin users might not have same ideology as you or view the bitcoin as satoshi originally planned bitcoin to be, but you can't control the people and bitcoin was made for people.

And since i've been in here, there has always been a huge group of people who have only interested of profits. There are probably hundreds cliché memes about bitcoin mooning, so can you blame people coming in having different values?

As long as the code doesn't change radically i don't judge what people think bitcoin is or should be or how what values they try to brand it with. It exists without our visions about it.

[Bushdark]

We need to understand that everyone has different opinion about Bitcoin and that does not mean that Bitcoin is dying. Nobody can kill Bitcoin and if it was possible, that would have happened long time ago before now. Bitcoin is just on a down trend and it had been ranging for a for time now and we are still hoping that the market is going to continue that previous momentum that it was going before it crashed and get back to the current level.

The cryptocurrency market is always going up and down and we should not expect the market to just start going bullish without going down to relax and continue again. We need to wait for sometimes and so what the market so capable of doing with out writing like we never understood the market pattern.

[crunck]

Hello everyone. I don't want to sound pessimistic, but it looks like bitcoins ideas are dying.

I spend a week on this forum talking with people about Bitcoin and asking their opinions in threads. And I came to the conclusion that the whole idea of Bitcoin is being killed in front of our eyes.

The problem is that most of the people in crypto see Bitcoin as an asset like a stock to invest in and then sell later. No one even thinking about the future of Bitcoin as means of currency. Bitcoin was created NOT as an asset, we use it as one, it was created to solve a banking problem and create money of freedom that can't be faked and printed. And somehow people are literally forgotten about this whole point of Bitcoin.

I created a thread asking people what they think bitcoin will stabilize enough to become a currency for people to use and literally everyone said to me that it's an asset and it will never stabilize. And, don't get me wrong, sounds logical and I agree with that.
But if we treat Bitcoin like this, why are we waiting for the "mass adoption" and want businesses to accept Bitcoin that is not stable in any means to use it as a currency?

Another big problem is that everything in crypto spaces becomes centralized. Recently I tried to sell my crypto without KYC and I didn't find any good platforms to do it! Just think about it...nowadays you need to pass KYC to sell crypto without high fees. That's crazy.

Almost all platforms and even some wallets require your ID which is the opposite of anonymity. And because of that there are fewer and fewer platforms that offer you services without KYC and therefore because there are not many of them here they hike up their fees to the sky.

 Add to that the fact that even wallets are not safe. Ledger literally offered people to save their seed phrase in the cloud. The mere fact that they CAN take your seed phrase and upload it somewhere is a reason to never use ledger anymore.

So considering all this, it looks like crypto right now is moving to centralization and control over our funds. Bitcoin is just an asset to people and I don't see how everyone can use it as a currency.
That's why I think that bitcoin Ideas are dying.

Bitcoin is not being used for the right purpose that Satoshi created, but that does not mean it is dying. You just need to think simply, as long as it is creating value, and benefiting us, then bitcoin is on the right track and does its job well. Just like you study accounting and after you graduate you go to another job, as long as you earn a lot of money, you have a desirable life, there is nothing wrong here. I don't see bitcoin dying because it is creating real value for this world.

[hatshepsut93]

Bitcoin was created NOT as an asset, we use it as one, it was created to solve a banking problem and create money of freedom that can't be faked and printed. And somehow people are literally forgotten about this whole point of Bitcoin.

Nothing was created as an asset, there no such thing as pure asset, an asset is just something with a highly liquid value.

I created a thread asking people what they think bitcoin will stabilize enough to become a currency for people to use and literally everyone said to me that it's an asset and it will never stabilize. And, don't get me wrong, sounds logical and I agree with that.
But if we treat Bitcoin like this, why are we waiting for the "mass adoption" and want businesses to accept Bitcoin that is not stable in any means to use it as a currency?

Bitcoin will never be as stable as fiat currency, because fiat is being intentionally stabilized by central banks. They participate on foreign exchange markets and dump their own currency if it goes up too fast, or buy it if it falls too fast. This helps them to generally reduce volatility to fractions of percent per day. Obviously it's impossible with Bitcoin and at best we will see volatility levels similar to gold.

So considering all this, it looks like crypto right now is moving to centralization and control over our funds. Bitcoin is just an asset to people and I don't see how everyone can use it as a currency.
That's why I think that bitcoin Ideas are dying.

Bitcoin protocol still follows the core values and there's no sign that it will change. It's the community that became diluted with "investors" instead of "cypherpunks".

[crypticj]

You can read in the bitcoin whitepaper that the things that many people are worried about have been predicted in such a way by satoshi, so it is very important to maintain the purity of bitcoin.

And I think we are losing the purity of Bitcoin right now. It looks like the government wants to destroy everything that makes Bitcoin a Bitcoin. They want to tax it, they want everyone KYCd, they ban mixers and they create trouble for companies or people who use bitcoin.

[Antonas1]

And I think we are losing the purity of Bitcoin right now.

So what if it's not pure anymore? Do you want to tell people to stop using it?

They want to tax it, they want everyone KYCd, they ban mixers and they create trouble for companies or people who use bitcoin.

There is always an alternative to doing that. Look at the people's answers on page 1.

[Yatsan]

And I think we are losing the purity of Bitcoin right now.

So what if it's not pure anymore? Do you want to tell people to stop using it?

They want to tax it, they want everyone KYCd, they ban mixers and they create trouble for companies or people who use bitcoin.

There is always an alternative to doing that. Look at the people's answers on page 1.

Purity he referred I guess is the extend to how Bitcoin is being used which is more of an investment or asset and not as an alternative mode of payment as its sole purpose in the first place. But we cannot help it I guess, there are still issues existing concerning Bitcoin and this industry in general's adoption or usage. It is not wrong as qell to make use of something out of its charactersistic and in this case is market price volatility.

KYC and other means are because of centralized exchanges. It is more of an option than requirement. They simply require such procedure not only for taxation but to follow what's in line with their license and to promote more sexured transaction. Again, this is just an option, there are DEX in which an investor could make use of if he's not into such procedures.

[serjent05]

KYC and other means are because of centralized exchanges. It is more of an option than requirement. They simply require such procedure not only for taxation but to follow what's in line with their license and to promote more sexured transaction. Again, this is just an option, there are DEX in which an investor could make use of if he's not into such procedures.

That is the compromised Bitcoin users have to give if they wanted the government to adopt Bitcoin.  That is showing people that they (the government) still has the authority when it comes to finance system.  As long as people wanted to connect Bitcoin to fiat currency,  the government will always have a say in this since the government is the one governing fiat currency.

If we really want a non-government intervention then any transaction we made should be isolated within the Bitcoin network.  One good example of this is paying goods with Bitcoin and not with Bitcoin converted into cash.

[o48o]

You can read in the bitcoin whitepaper that the things that many people are worried about have been predicted in such a way by satoshi, so it is very important to maintain the purity of bitcoin.

And I think we are losing the purity of Bitcoin right now. It looks like the government wants to destroy everything that makes Bitcoin a Bitcoin. They want to tax it, they want everyone KYCd, they ban mixers and they create trouble for companies or people who use bitcoin.

Yeah, that has nothing to do with bitcoin, they aren't targeting bitcoin but all kind of money laundering, bitcoin and other cryptos are naturally affected by it. Bitcoin hasn't changed, the world around us has. It doesn't matter what we think about it or how we are viewing bitcoin.

You can vote for people that don't want to tax bitcoin or get anyone kyc:ed if you find those. But imho those people don't fully understand the need for these regulations. And no politician that does want to be side of money laundering. Because those regulations you want to be stripped wouldn't just affect bitcoin, it would affect everything else too.

[suzanne5223]

The problem is that most of the people in crypto see Bitcoin as an asset like a stock to invest in and then sell later. No one even thinking about the future of Bitcoin as means of currency. Bitcoin was created NOT as an asset, we use it as one, it was created to solve a banking problem and create money of freedom that can't be faked and printed. And somehow people are literally forgotten about this whole point of Bitcoin.

You have a point but people seeing Bitcoin as an asset is never a problem unless you either don't understand that for Bitcoin to achieve the purpose of it creation it has to be used as an asset and as currency. Besides, the currency network congestion won't makes most people use BTC as currency.

I created a thread asking people what they think bitcoin will stabilize enough to become a currency for people to use and literally everyone said to me that it's an asset and it will never stabilize. And, don't get me wrong, sounds logical and I agree with that.
But if we treat Bitcoin like this, why are we waiting for the "mass adoption" and want businesses to accept Bitcoin that is not stable in any means to use it as a currency?

I am starting to think you only see BTC as a currency and you never see its asset potential which is the reason why the recent businesses that invested in BTC invest in it and it is also the exact one that will trigger adoption, not the potential of it being used as payment.

Another big problem is that everything in crypto spaces becomes centralized. Recently I tried to sell my crypto without KYC and I didn't find any good platforms to do it! Just think about it...nowadays you need to pass KYC to sell crypto without high fees. That's crazy.

Not everything in crypto becomes centralized if you know the no KYC exchange like Crypton exchange which was created by anonymous focus project called UtopiaP2P.
You can also check the list on KYCnot.

[Ojima-ojo]

Your concern regarding Bitcoin is partially inaccurate. While it is true that Bitcoin is often treated as an investment asset and selling it without KYC can be challenging, it is important to recognize that the goal of Bitcoin is to facilitate peer-to-peer transactions without the need for intermediaries. Many individuals, including myself, have been utilizing Bitcoin as a payment method for various purposes. For instance, I have received payments for marketing-related jobs in Bitcoin, and numerous others have also been utilizing it in a similar manner. It appears that your perception of Bitcoin is skewed by viewing it solely as an investment asset. It is crucial to broaden your understanding and appreciate the broader potential of Bitcoin as a means of exchange.

A good example of Bitcoin being used as a peer2peer payments is the weekly campaign payments for marketing various projects and companies and I believe that os the best and primary utility pf Bitcoin to use here,  and since the saying goes that practices what you believe and payment for marketing activities and service os Bitcoin is the best form of that practices,  and whatever we choose to do with our bitcoin there after is secondary.

Is either ways,  one can decide to hold a percentage of such payments as saving which automatically turn into investment since bitcoin have the tendency to increase in value and can survive inflation for tax avoidance,  or decide to exchange it into other currency or asset of best preference to the holder.


This and many more are the usage of bitcoin.

[freedomgo]

Bitcoin will never be as stable as fiat currency, because fiat is being intentionally stabilized by central banks. They participate on foreign exchange markets and dump their own currency if it goes up too fast, or buy it if it falls too fast. This helps them to generally reduce volatility to fractions of percent per day. Obviously it's impossible with Bitcoin and at best we will see volatility levels similar to gold.

There may be a way to somehow minimize the volatility of bitcoin but we are still long way to go as it will not happen in the next few decades or up until bitcoin haven't reach its supply limit. Still we don't know what will happen as it is an unknown water for now but I guess we will not figure that out because it is estimated that bitcoin will reach its limit in the year 2140, which I doubt that we are still alive to witness that phenomenon.

[Velemir Sava]

Hello everyone. I don't want to sound pessimistic, but it looks like bitcoins ideas are dying.

Bitcoins are "fine" this is more appropriate to say. Bitcoin has inspired the development of countless other cryptocurrency and blockchain projects, contributing to the growth and evolution of the wider cryptocurrency ecosystem. Regarding what you convey above reality, but I'm not skeptical about responding to me it's just the development of this diverse crypto ecosystem and this indicates that the ideas and concepts initiated by Bitcoin are still alive and developing.

[Aikidoka]

I respect your opinion but I don't think that Bitcoin will die, It has a large number of supporters, except for those who only see it as an asset to invest in and later sell as you mentioned.

I agree with some of the points you made regarding the fact that many people are primarily interested in using Bitcoin to make money without necessarily considering its future, I mean that's true that you can't control people and their actions when it comes to Bitcoin and this has been the case since its creation. However, I don't believe that this will have a major impact on Bitcoin's survival.

On the other hand, I believe that there are some people who are highly supportive of Bitcoin and think extensively about its future and the technology behind it, so nothing to worry about imo.

[Marvell1]

Bitcoin will never be as stable as fiat currency, because fiat is being intentionally stabilized by central banks. They participate on foreign exchange markets and dump their own currency if it goes up too fast, or buy it if it falls too fast. This helps them to generally reduce volatility to fractions of percent per day. Obviously it's impossible with Bitcoin and at best we will see volatility levels similar to gold.

There may be a way to somehow minimize the volatility of bitcoin but we are still long way to go as it will not happen in the next few decades or up until bitcoin haven't reach its supply limit. Still we don't know what will happen as it is an unknown water for now but I guess we will not figure that out because it is estimated that bitcoin will reach its limit in the year 2140, which I doubt that we are still alive to witness that phenomenon.

But what will we gain when bitcoin becomes stable? I mean, the people investing in bitcoin are very happy with what bitcoin is doing, so why would we want it to change? Bitcoin's volatility can be a barrier to its use as a currency, but on the other hand, it is benefiting many people using it for investment. Furthermore, we already have a lot of businesses and stores that accept bitcoin as a means of payment, and they don't have any problems. Why do so many people always complain about its volatility? Is it because it doesn't live up to their expectations, they are unsatisfied?

[serjent05]

But you can't blame people for having different idea and using bitcoin as they want. Especially when it absolutely thrives on idea of permissionless transactions that guarantees people the freedom to use it as they like.

I agree, people has the right to use Bitcoin in whatever way they see fit as long as its feature allowed it.

Most bitcoin users might not have same ideology as you or view the bitcoin as satoshi originally planned bitcoin to be, but you can't control the people and bitcoin was made for people.

True that most people who engage in Bitcoin is interested in getting profit.  And that is the motivating factor for investors and why they are participating in the Bitcoin industry, especially in Bitcoin economics.

And since i've been in here, there has always been a huge group of people who have only interested of profits. There are probably hundreds cliché memes about bitcoin mooning, so can you blame people coming in having different values?

Most people are profit driven.  Without profit they will just ignore things.  And since bitcoin gives an opportunity for profit then people who are profit driven are attracted to Bitcoin.

As long as the code doesn't change radically i don't judge what people think bitcoin is or should be or how what values they try to brand it with. It exists without our visions about it.

I agree, since Bitcoin feature is dependent on the code and so as how people use it.  So as long as the development of the code does not divert from the original purpose of its creation then I don't see any problem how people tends to use it.

[JayTrain]

I understand your concerns about the evolving perception and direction of Bitcoin and the cryptocurrency space. The shift towards viewing Bitcoin primarily as an investment asset rather than a decentralized currency is a valid concern. The increasing centralization and the requirement of KYC procedures in the crypto space also challenge the core principles of privacy and decentralization. However, ongoing efforts are being made to address these issues and preserve the fundamental principles of cryptocurrencies. The future of Bitcoin and cryptocurrencies depends on the collective actions and choices of the community. Staying informed and supporting projects aligned with privacy and decentralization is important.

[MoonOfLife]

You can read in the bitcoin whitepaper that the things that many people are worried about have been predicted in such a way by satoshi, so it is very important to maintain the purity of bitcoin.

And I think we are losing the purity of Bitcoin right now. It looks like the government wants to destroy everything that makes Bitcoin a Bitcoin. They want to tax it, they want everyone KYCd, they ban mixers and they create trouble for companies or people who use bitcoin.

That's what the government will definitely do because if it doesn't, their power will be weakened. They will care about their power, they have no reason to protect the purity of bitcoin. Bitcoin is not owned by them, they are not responsible for protecting it. But I won't worry about that, there will always be a way for us to bypass government regulations. The government cannot stop bitcoin.

[tread93]

I think mainly the conference was largely depleted because over half of the companies that were there last year got wiped out. I think overall everyone I came in touch with was very positive despite everything that has happened in the last year in crypto. I made some new friendships this year, with some incredible people from this forum and I couldn't be happier to be in that space this weekend.