Forum Menbership- 3.5m registered only 56k members survived?..... Why?

[Igebotz]

I'm curious about the forum's membership reduction and what can be to blame. A community with 3.5 million registered users has 2.7 million banned/nuked accounts, 700k accounts are dormant, and just 56k individuals have been active for the past three months. I did some analysis and there is a somewhat high chance that the forum will disappear before 2030 if the information on https://bpip.org/ is accurate. Since the forum is losing traffic each month, which is awful from a financial standpoint, I'm wondering what might be the issue.



unfriendly environment for Newbies/users ?

DT members oppression ? ( so much red than green these days)

The merit system (high demands for quality) ?

The moderation/rules ( using the ban button more often) ?

Low Bitcoin adoption ?

Lets Talk...

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[NeuroticFish]

What if it's not actually a "membership reduction"?

There are many use cases - from short time FUD or spam to one-time business, scams (including rinse and repeat strategies), multi-ing, ... name it - people would create just another account on the forum because, you know, it's for free.

So imho the big and ever increasing number of dead accounts means absolutely nothing (and should be just ignored).
Imho a proper way to quantify the things would be to see the evolution over time of the number of active accounts.

[UchihaSarada]

This forum is legend and if you want to find legendary Bitcoin users, find them here and learn from them.

If you want to find something funny but is not helpful for your knowledge, find them from Tiktok, Facebook, Twitter. Forum does not suspend or delete your account if you are inactive a few months like Twitter.

This forum will not die just like Bitcoin will not die or disappear. It's my belief because search engines will give searchers Bitcointalk.org is a biggest forum, on top of their search results.

[Igebotz]

What if it's not actually a "membership reduction"?

There are many use cases - from short time FUD or spam to one-time business, scams (including rinse and repeat strategies), multi-ing, ... name it - people would create just another account on the forum because, you know, it's for free.

If someone controls 100 active accounts does it harm or contribute positively to the forum?

So imho the big and ever increasing number of dead accounts means absolutely nothing (and should be just ignored).
Imho a proper way to quantify the things would be to see the evolution over time of the number of active accounts.

Over 700,000 accounts are dead or inactive, but it isn't the focus of my debate because those are older parts of the forum. Instead, I'm more interested in the 2.7 million banned accounts since that number is far too big to ignore.

Could someone give us the stats of active users over the last five years so we can evaluate? Loycebot, DdmrDdmr ?

This forum will not die just like Bitcoin will not die or disappear. It's my belief because search engines will give searchers Bitcointalk.org is a biggest forum, on top of their search results.

Is it a good or bad business if you had 3.5 million but lost 2.7 million? (From a business standpoint) and won't you be attempting to figure out why and what needs to be done? no one is saying the forum is going to die but it mathematically possible IF the membership decrease continues over time....

[Helena Yu]

unfriendly environment for Newbies/users ?

DT members oppression ? ( so much red than green these days)

The merit system (high demands for quality) ?

The moderation/rules ( using the ban button more often) ?

Low Bitcoin adoption ?

1. It's subjective, but as long as the newbie doesn't talk about shitcoin in strict moderated board e.g. Development & Technical Discussion, Bitcoin Technical Support and Meta, they wouldn't get criticism.

2. Red more than green was happen since long time ago, it was harsh than nowadays. If you're a spammer, exchange your merit with alt, ask no collateral loan, you obviously will get red tag. But now spam and exchange merit will not get red tag, some newbie didn't get red tag for ask no collateral loan.

3. Nope, more and more merit flowing is increasing. There's no merit deduction, theymos always distributing new sMerit to merit source.

4. Nope, there are many cases users are plagiarism and still not get banned.

5. People who interested with Bitcoin, don't need to join this forum to start his Bitcoin journey.

I don't have data to back up my words, but I'm pretty sure the total number of high accounts were because of easy way to make money in bounties. People can join a bounty even the account is still a newbie rank.

It's decreased because they can't make money without any effort.

[jokers10]

It is natural for forums. You can't grow all the time. Besides that we can remember what was in pre merit times. When I came here already was a merit system but one line posters were still here (and old-timers said there were much more before that). Some can say that there were more users before, but it wat totally impossible to talk to anyone as any post went away pages ago immediatelly and all the pages were of one line posts. Now we have much less bots. Of course there still are some, but not as much.

Other reason is not a "low Bitcoin adoption", but its growing popularity. Time goes and there are more and more places you can talk about bitcoin and get some info about it. Different kind, different quality, but very many places. So Bitcointalk is competing for users attention with multiple other places. Of course if you want to get most professional info and to communicate with a big number of knowledgeable people you should come here, but there are many who is glad with much much less.

And I guess when there will be next bull run there will be next surge of interest to Bitcointalk as well.

...
Is it a good or bad business if you had 3.5 million but lost 2.7 million? (From a business standpoint) and won't you be attempting to figure out why and what needs to be done? no one is saying the forum is going to die but it mathematically possible IF the membership decrease continues over time....

You never had those 3.5 million. Majority of those who sign up forums post nothing, the next biggest part leaves 1 post once. And total minority leaves more messages. I saw many forums and it is a regular situation which doesn't mark a problem by itself.

[NeuroticFish]

If someone controls 100 active accounts does it harm or contribute positively to the forum?

Imho it greatly deserves a ban on all of them  
I don't know though if there are such greatly extreme cases...

Instead, I'm more interested in the 2.7 million banned accounts since that number is far too big to ignore.

I agree, you may have a point here. I would however like first another opinion whether all of those 2.7 M are indeed banned.
An extreme example is satoshi, archived, but because it's inactive for too long. Maybe (I don't know, I just hope) that huge number of archived accounts also contains long-inactive ones (i.e. abandoned, not banned).
If you're right, then indeed, a discussion on those numbers may also be relevant.

the next biggest part leaves 1 post once. And total minority leaves more messages. I saw many forums and it is a regular situation which doesn't mark a problem by itself.

Well said.

[Upgrade00]

unfriendly environment for Newbies/users ?

DT members oppression ? ( so much red than green these days)

The merit system (high demands for quality) ?

The moderation/rules ( using the ban button more often) ?

Low Bitcoin adoption ?

• An unfriendly environment is the top reason for this that I've noticed. Newbies are reprimanded for not being very knowledgeable of forum issues, even though that's what's expected of newer members and if they do try to gain a bit of information before joining, they are suspected of being alts.

• The merit system is also a barrier cause newer members see their time here to be unproductive as the bar for progress keeps getting higher, and the chances of your quality post being seen (outside certain boards) keeps dropping. There are fewer members sharing merits around these days.
This issue could be helped with more merit sources being added to ensure quality posts gets rewarded.

• DT oppression is relative and should not be much of an issue to newer members who have no reputation yet, except they planned to be scammers of trolls.

[robelneo]

I did some analysis and there is a somewhat high chance that the forum will disappear before 2030 if the information on https://bpip.org/ is accurate. Since the forum is losing traffic each month, which is awful from a financial standpoint, I'm wondering what might be the issue.

Bitcointalk will not likely banish or disappear in your specified year unless Theymos pull the plug or unless Bitcoin goes to zero which is unlikely.
With over 30k organic keywords that show up in the search engine Bitcoin and Bitcointalk will stay even if the last Bitcoin is mined and even if Theymos grandson inherits this forum, with many new discussions and threads added daily the organic traffic keeps coming.

image uploader

[Synchronice]

I'm curious about the forum's membership reduction and what can be to blame. A community with 3.5 million registered users has 2.7 million banned/nuked accounts, 700k accounts are dormant, and just 56k individuals have been active for the past three months. I did some analysis and there is a somewhat high chance that the forum will disappear before 2030 if the information on https://bpip.org/ is accurate. Since the forum is losing traffic each month, which is awful from a financial standpoint, I'm wondering what might be the issue.



unfriendly environment for Newbies/users ?

DT members oppression ? ( so much red than green these days)

The merit system (high demands for quality) ?

The moderation/rules ( using the ban button more often) ?

Low Bitcoin adoption ?

Lets Talk...

DT members, merit system, moderation rules and bitcoin adoption has nothing to do with bitcointalk's popularity. This forum has the best rules, moderators, educated and professional users, etc but the problem is that forum has no clear goal, if any, and probably the owner has no motivation to do something with it, he just hosts it and that's all.
This forum doesn't meet the average standard that people expect. It has an old and outdated user interface, features, doesn't have a mobile application, epochtalk is abandoned. I think it's pretty clear why this forum loses people and it makes me really sad because I recently discovered this amazing forum with amazing history and amazing community and I don't wat to see it vanish.

[UchihaSarada]

Is it a good or bad business if you had 3.5 million but lost 2.7 million? (From a business standpoint) and won't you be attempting to figure out why and what needs to be done?

Bitcointalk is not a business.

[jokers10]

...
• The merit system is also a barrier cause newer members see their time here to be unproductive as the bar for progress keeps getting higher, and the chances of your quality post being seen (outside certain boards) keeps dropping. There are fewer members sharing merits around these days.
This issue could be helped with more merit sources being added to ensure quality posts gets rewarded.
...

I thought so previously also. I was new in here, it was not so easy to get merits and I decided too keep some smerits for the newbies like me to share. I've got not many but enough for my idea and spent lot of time searching for newbies with good posts which were not seen by senior users. And I didn't fount anyone. Since then I just share my smerits when I see something I think deserve it and don't try to find an overlooked newbie. If you see the one, you can say to some merit source, many of them will be happy to help a prospective newbie, or you can just give him merits by yourself.

[skarais]

I'm not sure about what the exact reason is, even when I created the same thread a few years ago on a local board. I was wondering why the number of forum users seemed to be shrinking from year to year, but it's clear that the reasons are sure to vary.

I'm trying to get some data on the number of active users for the last 4 months and 20 days (1 January - 20 May 2023) so that we know how many users are still using the forum and posting regularly or occasionally. There are still at least 21,288 active users posting at least 1 post in that time span, but this number will still increase or decrease for the rest of 2023.

Source: https://ninjastic.space/search?after_date=2023-01-01T00%3A00%3A01&before_date=2023-05-20T23%3A59%3A59&child_boards=true

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[libert19]

~

I see no reason to not be active here 

[Fiatless]

...
• The merit system is also a barrier cause newer members see their time here to be unproductive as the bar for progress keeps getting higher, and the chances of your quality post being seen (outside certain boards) keeps dropping. There are fewer members sharing merits around these days.
This issue could be helped with more merit sources being added to ensure quality posts gets rewarded.
...

I thought so previously also. I was new in here, it was not so easy to get merits and I decided too keep some smerits for the newbies like me to share. I've got not many but enough for my idea and spent lot of time searching for newbies with good posts which were not seen by senior users. And I didn't fount anyone. Since then I just share my smerits when I see something I think deserve it and don't try to find an overlooked newbie. If you see the one, you can say to some merit source, many of them will be happy to help a prospective newbie, or you can just give him merits by yourself.

From my point of view, I think that this forum is not for everybody. Yeah, I have introduced a few persons to this forum and when they couldn't get merit for a few weeks after making some posts they all abandoned their account. This forum is for the patient, tolerant and meek.

If you are not patient enough to wait and learn about the operations of Bitcoin and the forum but expect to get merit just like that after a few posts, you might get discouraged.

Some people also think the forum is like another social media platform so they want to post uncontrollably. When they are cautioned, they become offended and leave. One of the people I brought to the forum was angry that his post was deleted.

Anyone that is not willing to learn and improve will not last here. I have also observed that patience, tolerance, and meekness are gradually disappearing among my peers.

But it will also be good to see more merits on other boards because newbies need time to learn about the technical or more complex parts of Bitcoin. They shouldn't be expected to post like others. These newcomers also need to be encouraged because they think that merits are only given to higher members.

[skarais]

~

I see no reason to not be active here  

Lol, other people will say that too, but really they never know what tomorrow will bring.
You know, less than a month ago my colleague was diagnosed with liver cancer which required him to be treated intensively until now. He had to temporarily quit his job which he had no intention of quitting. His health condition forced him to stop working, so I think until that time comes I think every user will stop using this forum regularly regardless of the reason.

May we all be given health and longevity to always do activities here until our fingers have to give up to be used to type every letter on the keyboard.

[Upgrade00]

and spent lot of time searching for newbies with good posts which were not seen by senior users.

You don't need to specifically look for newbies who don't get merits, those that do get merits should easily be able to get more.

I also tend to drop my quality requirement as I go lower done the ranks, so a post by a newbie which I merit might not get any if it was posted by a senior or hero member. Simply making inquiries constructively and being consistent in replying to your thread responses is enough to get a merit for a newbie.

[Nwada001]

I think one thing that's decreasing the number of active participants, which can actually be linked to spamming, is that since every account that is being created with or without a post is being accounted for, most of the recorded accounts out of the 3 million or more might actually be accounts that are linked to Ban Invader, which in one way or another might actually also get banned. This might also be the reason for the ban account to record higher than active accounts.

Most people actually lost interest in the forum because of intimidation and an unfriendly discussion environment. I can use myself as a living example. I created my account months ago without being active on it because of the fear of not getting banned or insulted by the superiors, but I came to realize that the forum was actually not the way I perceived it to be.

Another reason I also assumed would be the cost of this is that people will create accounts that they don't have access to, and the limit on account creation based on location might actually tag the user with evil that he or she did not commit, which lots of people might not just pay for or have the idea that they could actually apply for a whitelist, which they will just continue trying till they get it right, which will increase the number of account creations on the forum.

Is it a good or bad business if you had 3.5 million but lost 2.7 million? (From a business standpoint) and won't you be attempting to figure out why and what needs to be done?

Bitcointalk is not a business.

He never said Bitcointalk is an open business place, but it is. It's just an illustration that is used to describe the situation at hand on the forum

[TheUltraElite]

There had been a time when users made multiple accounts just to defraud giveaways and campaigns. Those farms of accounts were shut down by the actions of many members, you can assume every 1 person controlling 50 accounts, so that factors in a large number of account that could get shot down at once. They eventually come back as new users and new bitcoin addresses though.

Eventually this came to be known as "DT Oppression" which would be normal because this forum is similar to a democracy. Although at this point of the DT system, I think users agree that it is much more decentralized.

Sockpuppet accounts have been created for many reasons as well. To bump own threads, sale trash others, fake reviews etc.

Ban button? No, bans done here are in majority of the cases justified.

May we all be given health and longevity to always do activities here until our fingers have to give up to be used to type every letter on the keyboard.

Amen to that!
I think if the KYC April Fool that theymos had used at one time became a reality, then the real number of users here would be much smaller.

[Coin_trader]

Probably due to the social media apps that let users connect and discuss freely in a quick way. Most people preferred convenience from social media which forum can’t offer such as group chat which is popular now due to the rising popularity of shitcoins among newbs investors.

Also the troll message is highly moderated here while most user in crypto interact that way. We categorized them as shit poster and set standards on posting which probably makes them leave. Wall Observer Thread is only free thread here which user can interact freely which shit post or trolls is allowed that will not gonna give a negative impact to reputation.

In my humble opinion.