Using ToS against users normal?

[darkangel11]

Changing of terms and conditions without notifying the users or gamblers is normal with online gambling websites?

Could you give us an example of what changes in the ToS were there in your case? It's very rare for the changes to be so big to impact users in the way that they could be banned or scammed by the casino. Usually they add or remove countries from their list of restrictions and I suspect that's what you had a problem with. Usually they notify users about changes in the ToS, but don't way what exactly was changed. They just let you know there have been some changes and it's up to you to read it again.

If you feel cheated, start a thread in scam accusations.

[Fortify]

Changing of terms and conditions without notifying the users or gamblers is normal with online gambling websites? Then when you did something wrong or about to withdraw your money they will tell you that you don't read their terms and conditions, and you start arguing with them until you decide to read the ToS again and you find out that it's different.

Some gambling websites consist of wicked owners that willingly plan to defraud their users using the ToS against them, or is this normal? Have such happened to anyone on this forum before?

It's not normal to change the terms of service like this, however many people often forget a rare pop up which might state "Our terms have changed, please click here if you accept them". That's the minimal, professional approach that a company might be expected to take. If they did not do this then it might be possible to fight the changed terms if they were severely detrimental to the end user, but it just depends on what sort of outcome or problem you are facing with the rule change. In reality, most users never pay the slightest bit of attention to all of the different terms that they agree to when registering at different sites and would probably lose vast amounts of time if they decided to start.

[bitbollo]

all "reputable" sites always send a notification to confirm a certain TOS change. it should be done if it's something "impacting".

But, yes it has happened several times that these changes were not notified (I remember a long discussion regarding a crypto-exchange...) but in general it is always a bad sign of seriousness of the site.
Even worse is when certain changes are adopted retroactively.
Unfortunately the TOS are written in a "broad" way just to cover all cases

[ryzaadit]

In law nope.

Because, we should stick in the "TOS" at the time we register to the site. However, If they notify user and we take agree again then the new tos should be apply to us. Stake recently reminder/notifity their tos again.

It's one of example, In-case they want to change somethings.

[Mahanton]

Changing of terms and conditions without notifying the users or gamblers is normal with online gambling websites? Then when you did something wrong or about to withdraw your money they will tell you that you don't read their terms and conditions, and you start arguing with them until you decide to read the ToS again and you find out that it's different.

Some gambling websites consist of wicked owners that willingly plan to defraud their users using the ToS against them, or is this normal? Have such happened to anyone on this forum before?

This is why it would really be that important at least on taking up some screenshots with having that date showed but of course most of us wouldn't really be minding in doing so since we are just that small time gamblers or doesnt really considered to be a whale and this is the least thing that we would really be minding but on the time that you would really be able to win up big and then suddenly they would really be asking these
kind of information which you cant really even sure on how to fight for your right just because once you dont able to provide some counter measures then you would really be ending up on accepting that it was your fault.
This is why if you dont like to experience up things then it would be better that you should really be sticking into those known and reputable platforms.Although this doesnt assure 100% that you would get rid about of this situation but at least you are dealing on a site which had been able to trusted up by many. Usually these kind of sites are really into those new ones who had been able to wrekt up by those
huge wins hit up by their players.

[coin-investor]

Changing of terms and conditions without notifying the users or gamblers is normal with online gambling websites? Then when you did something wrong or about to withdraw your money they will tell you that you don't read their terms and conditions, and you start arguing with them until you decide to read the ToS again and you find out that it's different.

Some gambling websites consist of wicked owners that willingly plan to defraud their users using the ToS against them, or is this normal? Have such happened to anyone on this forum before?

Good casinos always inform their players about changes on their terms, some casinos do not do that and it left many gamblers in a trap but TOS is a TOS although it's a long read people at least once a week should read the terms of service for any changes that they are not aware of.

Sometimes you missed their newsletter about the changes in their terms of service going through the important section of the terms where they are likely to change some provisions will put you at ease while playing, you can't argue with the casino when it comes to the rules of their casino.

[stomachgrowls]

Changing of terms and conditions without notifying the users or gamblers is normal with online gambling websites? Then when you did something wrong or about to withdraw your money they will tell you that you don't read their terms and conditions, and you start arguing with them until you decide to read the ToS again and you find out that it's different.

Some gambling websites consist of wicked owners that willingly plan to defraud their users using the ToS against them, or is this normal? Have such happened to anyone on this forum before?

Good casinos always inform their players about changes on their terms, some casinos do not do that and it left many gamblers in a trap but TOS is a TOS although it's a long read people at least once a week should read the terms of service for any changes that they are not aware of.

Sometimes you missed their newsletter about the changes in their terms of service going through the important section of the terms where they are likely to change some provisions will put you at ease while playing, you can't argue with the casino when it comes to the rules of their casino.

Making alterations without any announcement into its players or into the community is something a doing for a non-fair and shady casino which it should really be avoided on the time that it gets busted.

This is why its really that important on reading up terms and conditions and if you are something who do make use or having some behavior like using up some VPN or any other movement then you would be basically be watching and checking if this platform is allowing or not. On the time that you do saw that they do allowed as you could see into their TOS but on the time that they had sued you out on having that kind of violation
which you would really be tending to fight off on what you had read earlier but on the time that they had already altered it out then there's nothing you can do.

There's no way that you could be able to prove it out unless if you do see some evidence on showing on their Terms and conditions earlier.

[QueenVera]

Changing of terms and conditions without notifying the users or gamblers is normal with online gambling websites? Then when you did something wrong or about to withdraw your money they will tell you that you don't read their terms and conditions, and you start arguing with them until you decide to read the ToS again and you find out that it's different.

Some gambling websites consist of wicked owners that willingly plan to defraud their users using the ToS against them, or is this normal? Have such happened to anyone on this forum before?

I don't think this is actually true because I don't see how possible this can be and this is one of the major reasons why we have to always take our time to read the terms and conditions of a casino before getting involved in any for form of services with them and a big casino will not try to attempt this because I say this as one of the cheapest scams any casinos can ever think of.

But if this is really possible then the casinos really need to be invested and looked into because this is a deliberate criminal act and they shouldn't be stealing from their loyal fans and customers.

[seoincorporation]

I don't think the ToS are made to affect the users, they are made to protect the casino against some abuses, but we have seen some casinos that abuse the ToS to avoid the users getting their money, a good example of this is FortuneJack, in their ToS they say the min withdraw is $150 which is a way to avoid the users withdraw their money forcing them to bet if they have an amount lower than that. And if you want to make a deposit on that site then you have to do a rollover of x2 to be able to withdraw which is another abuse.

[TimeTeller]

I don't think the ToS are made to affect the users, they are made to protect the casino against some abuses, but we have seen some casinos that abuse the ToS to avoid the users getting their money, a good example of this is FortuneJack, in their ToS they say the min withdraw is $150 which is a way to avoid the users withdraw their money forcing them to bet if they have an amount lower than that. And if you want to make a deposit on that site then you have to do a rollover of x2 to be able to withdraw which is another abuse.

The ToS is there for a reason, a basic reference for both player and the casino.
Without it, it would be chaos and there will be complaints after complaints.
It is a need to have a harmonious relationship with its players, like a common ground for both parties.
So it is not only for the casino but for the users as well. If the user doesn't agree with the terms of the casino, he can always go to another casino.

[RILWAN]

Can you really point to the casino that is involved in this kind of scam attributes which is very bad for any casino's reputation regardless because that is an offence that could be said for, editing the TOS to favour their case is no different from scamming users by blocking them and seizing their funds.

[Baofeng]

I actually just had to agree to new ToS on stake last time I logged in. Is there a certain casino you are accusing of this? Let's be honest, if you are of legal gambling age, live in a country that's allowed on said website, and can confirm your funds then ToS doesn't bother you.

Yes sir, when you logged back in to Stake you will see that they have a new Tos and you have to agree before you can proceed and play. Although I did checked my emails and there was none regarding the ToS but I think the pop-up is enough for Stake gamblers that their is a new set of ToS.

As for this case, I haven't seen the casino that the OP is accusing, I think it's better for us to know which one, if it is reputable or not so that we may call their attentions. But I guess maybe the OP doesn't want to reveal it so this discussion could be open for interpretation, fault of the user for not knowing the new ToS or casino itself for not notifying their customers.

[khaled0111]

As far as I know, any professional service provider, be it a casino or any other company, whenever they introdyuce the lightest change to their terms of services, they must make it public.
First, you will see on the tos page that it has been updated at x/x/x
All customers are supposed to receive notification about the new changes.
The most important thing that changes are kit supposed to be retro-active.

[qwertyup23]

Changing of terms and conditions without notifying the users or gamblers is normal with online gambling websites? Then when you did something wrong or about to withdraw your money they will tell you that you don't read their terms and conditions, and you start arguing with them until you decide to read the ToS again and you find out that it's different.

Some gambling websites consist of wicked owners that willingly plan to defraud their users using the ToS against them, or is this normal? Have such happened to anyone on this forum before?

I do think that some gambling companies change their TOS without any notice to their users. This happens usually when an active player has a claim against the gambling company and the latter wants to refuse giving out something.

If this happens, this is considered as fraud and this should be reported immediately in this forum to notify everyone about their behaviour. This kind of scheme should not be tolerated at all cost given that they are defrauding their players blatantly with this kind of act.

[serjent05]

Reputable casinos will always take responsibility for informing their users if there is any TOS modification.  Just like recently when Stake had their amendment on the TOS, they inform their players by forced popping the new TOS on the screen of the player while giving them the option to accept the new term.

Those who do not inform their players of any TOS changes can be said unethical because it is the most important thing that a player must know while playing on the gambling platform.

[Blitzboy]

Oh boy, you've hit a nerve! If there's one thing that gets my goat, it's a gambling website that changes its ToS on the fly like a chameleon changing colors. Unfortunately, it happens, and it's far from being the laughing matter.

Is it normal? Maybe in the "shadier" corners of the online gambling world. Should we accept it? Heck no! There's no reason why users should be left in the dark when it comes to changes in the ToS.

It's high time we put our foot down and demand transparency. One approach could be to lobby for stricter regulations requiring online gambling platforms to announce any changes to their terms and conditions. Let's make this an exciting challenge instead of a tiresome struggle!

[Don Pedro Dinero]

A decent casino should send an email notifying of changes. After all, many customers won't even bother to read the email. Another thing is that the casino is not so decent and changes the ToS a lot and without warning.

Some gambling websites consist of wicked owners that willingly plan to defraud their users using the ToS against them, or is this normal? Have such happened to anyone on this forum before?

You seem to have a specific casino in mind. Share it with us and we can discuss it together.

[Wexnident]

Changing of terms and conditions without notifying the users or gamblers is normal with online gambling websites? Then when you did something wrong or about to withdraw your money they will tell you that you don't read their terms and conditions, and you start arguing with them until you decide to read the ToS again and you find out that it's different.

Some gambling websites consist of wicked owners that willingly plan to defraud their users using the ToS against them, or is this normal? Have such happened to anyone on this forum before?

That's not a casino, that's a scam. Legitimate casinos would notify users of the changes in their ToS possibly weeks, maybe even months before they implement them. It's just something natural. If a casino didn't do so and updated them without notifying their users, I'd just leave since they've fully committed to scamming at least one person with that change.

Afaik there has been some people who were victims, I recall some of them provided proofs while others claimed to be victims but sadly no proof was shown. It is hard though since in the first place,  who takes a copy of the ToS of a casino? I certainly don't.

[delfastTions]

Changing of terms and conditions without notifying the users or gamblers is normal with online gambling websites? Then when you did something wrong or about to withdraw your money they will tell you that you don't read their terms and conditions, and you start arguing with them until you decide to read the ToS again and you find out that it's different.

Some gambling websites consist of wicked owners that willingly plan to defraud their users using the ToS against them, or is this normal? Have such happened to anyone on this forum before?

That's not a casino, that's a scam. Legitimate casinos would notify users of the changes in their ToS possibly weeks, maybe even months before they implement them. It's just something natural. If a casino didn't do so and updated them without notifying their users, I'd just leave since they've fully committed to scamming at least one person with that change.

Afaik there has been some people who were victims, I recall some of them provided proofs while others claimed to be victims but sadly no proof was shown. It is hard though since in the first place,  who takes a copy of the ToS of a casino? I certainly don't.

And here is where an interesting question arises.  Even if you download the TOS text for yourself at the moment when you read the rules, if the casino is fraudulent, then it may claim that the rules you downloaded were faked and they were different.  Even having an archive page with the text of TOS, I think it is quite difficult to prove its authenticity.  But I certainly think that such fraudulent actions with the texts of the rules are only done by fraudulent casino sites.  Any reputable and well-known casino, of course, must somehow notify the players about the change in the rules in advance. 
The main question that worries everyone is, of course, the withdrawal of money won at the casino to your account, whether KYC is needed, commission rates, and sinilar  issues.

[mindrust]

Changing of terms and conditions without notifying the users or gamblers is normal with online gambling websites? Then when you did something wrong or about to withdraw your money they will tell you that you don't read their terms and conditions, and you start arguing with them until you decide to read the ToS again and you find out that it's different.

Some gambling websites consist of wicked owners that willingly plan to defraud their users using the ToS against them, or is this normal? Have such happened to anyone on this forum before?

If a user breaks ToS, then the casino should lock the user's account and let him withdraw his money. Most casinos do it that way but some of them don't even let the user withdraw his money and that's where it becomes a scammy behavior. If the user harmed the casino financially, I can understand that behavior since they have to make up for the damages he caused but if not, then this act is completely unnecessary. Some of those people don't even realize that it was against the ToS to use a VPN for example... you can't seize these people's money so easily.