Using ToS against users normal?

[Reatim]

Changing of terms and conditions without notifying the users or gamblers is normal with online gambling websites? Then when you did something wrong or about to withdraw your money they will tell you that you don't read their terms and conditions, and you start arguing with them until you decide to read the ToS again and you find out that it's different.

Some gambling websites consist of wicked owners that willingly plan to defraud their users using the ToS against them, or is this normal? Have such happened to anyone on this forum before?

actually this will only favor them in short term because every wrong doings will have  response from the players and they may run away from some but surely not in permanent situation.
we have seen some gambling site that did this and yes eventually their reputation dies and now ? they are not even exceed from their past activities.

[1715227618]

1715227618

[Maslate]

Changing of terms and conditions without notifying the users or gamblers is normal with online gambling websites? Then when you did something wrong or about to withdraw your money they will tell you that you don't read their terms and conditions, and you start arguing with them until you decide to read the ToS again and you find out that it's different.

Some gambling websites consist of wicked owners that willingly plan to defraud their users using the ToS against them, or is this normal? Have such happened to anyone on this forum before?

actually this will only favor them in short term because every wrong doings will have  response from the players and they may run away from some but surely not in permanent situation.
we have seen some gambling site that did this and yes eventually their reputation dies and now ? they are not even exceed from their past activities.

Running a gambling site is not easy. Its main asset for profitability in the business is its reputation. If a gambling site were to destroy that reputation, it can expect that gamblers will leave the site, and sooner or later, the business will close. Those who attempt to take advantage by illegally changing the terms will not be able to survive in an industry where competition is very tough.

[Doan9269]

ToS are not meant to work or be used against a gambler except the gambler was the one found violating the rules stated from it, but if not in this case, any gambling platform found with the violation of these as used against it users should be reported and avoided completely, there are many gambling platforms one can always try out if the one you're using is not trusted anymore and challenges like this make us always advise gamblers not to have the money they cannot afford loosing on their casino wallet.

[Fivestar4everMVP]

ToS are not meant to work or be used against a gambler except the gambler was the one found violating the rules stated from it, but if not in this case, any gambling platform found with the violation of these as used against it users should be reported and avoided completely, there are many gambling platforms one can always try out if the one you're using is not trusted anymore and challenges like this make us always advise gamblers not to have the money they cannot afford loosing on their casino wallet.

Going by the first line of your comment, I was going to say that, I've personally come across a situation where a casino kept editing and re-editing their terms or service in a bid to illegally confiscate a user's winning as well as fund left on the user's account.

Scam is everywhere, and scammers implore several means by which they try to carry out their nefarious acts without being suspected.

Anyways, you've spoken well, users never should leave their funds on a casino account, and also report every activity of the casino that looks suspicious.

[klidex]

Scam is everywhere, and scammers implore several means by which they try to carry out their nefarious acts without being suspected.

If it's the first time they cheat, surely no one can suspect them, even they look very good without any thought that it's actually a fraud.
But when the fraudulent act has consumed enough victims, not only suspicions but complaints about the fraud they are committing have spread by themselves.

Anyways, you've spoken well, users never should leave their funds on a casino account, and also report every activity of the casino that looks suspicious.

If you only leave small amounts of funds at the casino, that's not a problem, but if gamblers use large amounts of money to gamble, it is better to withdraw it immediately after playing and decide to stop to avoid bad things.
Even though playing at a trusted casino, caution and vigilance must remain a priority.

[pawel7777]

ToS are not meant to work or be used against a gambler except the gambler was the one found violating the rules

This doesn't quite make sense. "Rules" are defined by ToS, so you're essentially saying that ToS are not meant to be used against the user unless the user violates ToS.

make us always advise gamblers not to have the money they cannot afford loosing on their casino wallet.

I'd change this statement to say don't hold more in your casino balance than you need to. If you win, just withdraw to your bank account/crypto wallet and leave only the amount you intend to use for gambling in the future (if any at all).
In other words, gambling sites should not be used as bank accounts or wallets.

[tusandii]

If you only leave small amounts of funds at the casino, that's not a problem, but if gamblers use large amounts of money to gamble, it is better to withdraw it immediately after playing and decide to stop to avoid bad things.
Even though playing at a trusted casino, caution and vigilance must remain a priority.

I agree with you and however keeping large funds in the casino is a risky thing especially if the funds are really in very large amounts.
I'm sure some wealthy gamblers make deposits and withdrawals around the clock to keep the money they gamble with safe, although it does cost more but if it's worth the security of the money then cost is not an issue.

By the way, many gamblers complain of problems because they forget to read the TOS at the casino, so they violate existing rules and their accounts or money are frozen.
I think that every gambler should read the high five before registering or depositing their money.
This kind of thing is very unfortunate because they actually blame the casino for the problems they have caused themselves.

[slapper]

Changing of terms and conditions without notifying the users or gamblers is normal with online gambling websites? Then when you did something wrong or about to withdraw your money they will tell you that you don't read their terms and conditions, and you start arguing with them until you decide to read the ToS again and you find out that it's different.

Some gambling websites consist of wicked owners that willingly plan to defraud their users using the ToS against them, or is this normal? Have such happened to anyone on this forum before?

actually this will only favor them in short term because every wrong doings will have  response from the players and they may run away from some but surely not in permanent situation.
we have seen some gambling site that did this and yes eventually their reputation dies and now ? they are not even exceed from their past activities.

It's like being given a novel-length version of the Terms of Service and being expected to grasp it like we're all attorneys. Some gaming sites engage in a 'cloak-and-dagger' tactic that is more than dishonest; it's downright frustrating. That's not cool.

I've witnessed shady dealings like that myself, and retribution is a vicious thing. They could temporarily deceive naive consumers, but the internet remembers everything. Their credibility would be shot to pieces with just one thread on Reddit or tweet exposing their shady business methods.

However, we also need to step up our performance. Keep an eye on the ToS at all times, record any modifications, and don't be afraid to call them out when necessary. We are more than just participants in their game; we have a vested interest in the success of this online gambling hub.

[mak013]

Changing of terms and conditions without notifying the users or gamblers is normal with online gambling websites? Then when you did something wrong or about to withdraw your money they will tell you that you don't read their terms and conditions, and you start arguing with them until you decide to read the ToS again and you find out that it's different.

Some gambling websites consist of wicked owners that willingly plan to defraud their users using the ToS against them, or is this normal? Have such happened to anyone on this forum before?

It is strange situation. On the one hand - the casino changes, the rules change, the cheaters change and the casino has to change ToS. But the same time you agreed with the first version of the ToS and if there wasn`t something like "the casino can change ToS due to some situations" you can sue them. But you need some proves like screenshots at least. Unfortunately we don`t make it most times.

This incident happen when a user win a huge prize and they can't pay that, so the only solution they made is to change their rules so that that user will be tag as cheater then he will not be paid for the winnings he got. This situation happen so we should tag those casino doing that as scam since they can't do that on situation like this. This is one of the best reason why we need to read the TOS and get updated with it especially for whales so that casino cannot use a TOS reason when they they bag some good cash on then while legitimately playing.

Can you mark me the post where the OP told us about it? Why you decided so? I specially read the OP`s posts twice and didn`t find this information. And for casino it is normal to change the ToS and i told why.
The same time gamblers mostly don`t read the ToS and they can`t say if something changed. And very often gamblers like to cry that the casino cheated them, but after reading rules we see that they tried to cheat, not casino.

[TheGreatPython]

It's very hard for many people to spend their time and go through an online casino's Terms of Services, it's going to be a long reading and many don't want it, but my advice is to ask around for any casino that you can gamble on without any KYC verification or you can just make your choice through this forum.

I used to have problems with online casinos that are off this forum but when I started trying the likes of Roobet and others from this forum, I haven't had any weird problems so far, so it looks like those that are complaining really did something wrong or they are falsely accusing the online casinos.

There is a small chance of having a bad experience on any online casinos that people are presently using for gambling on this forum, go with online casinos that has reputation and you won't face any problems, just don't do anything that will put you in problem, I don't use VPN, I don't switch between ISP services, I don't change DNS here and there, changing of location can put you in problems with any online casinos.

Gamblers who are too lazy and careless to read the terms and conditions of a platform before gambling with them will surely have issues once they go ahead and gamble without even understanding the rules and regulations of the casino, such people need to understand that reading the terms and conditions is good for themselves as they won't fall into any issues later on if they do so.

And you are probably right that casino platforms that are available on this forum are mostly trusted and the reason for that is they know this forum has a very wide user base and if their reputation goes wrong from here, they will lose a lot of users and the word will spread pretty fast from this forum to the mainstream world.

[pawel7777]

Gamblers who are too lazy and careless to read the terms and conditions of a platform before gambling with them will surely have issues once they go ahead and gamble without even understanding the rules and regulations of the casino, such people need to understand that reading the terms and conditions is good for themselves as they won't fall into any issues later on if they do so.

Do you actually read all ToS in full when signing up for any service? People like to publicly shame others for not doing that, but in practice, nobody does that.
Reading them shouldn't be necessary, as the casinos should operate in accordance with the laws of the jurisdictions they provide their services (law > ToS). And if the casino operates illegally, following ToS will not guarantee any protection.
But this thread is not about ToS in general, but about changing them without giving any notice, so not sure how reading them would help.

[John Abraham]

Changing of terms and conditions without notifying the users or gamblers is normal with online gambling websites? Then when you did something wrong or about to withdraw your money they will tell you that you don't read their terms and conditions, and you start arguing with them until you decide to read the ToS again and you find out that it's different.

Some gambling websites consist of wicked owners that willingly plan to defraud their users using the ToS against them, or is this normal? Have such happened to anyone on this forum before?

No. This is not normal at all. I would say this is scammy behavior. If I remember correctly, a few days ago, Stake.com Changed its terms and conditions. When I logged into my account, I noticed a new window showing they had changed their TOS, and I couldn't close the window until I scrolled it down to the end of it. We know that most casino players don't read the TOS, but they accept the TOS without even reading it during the sign-up process. That doesn't mean casinos don't have to notify a user when they change their TOS. A wise gambling platform should announce its new changes as Stake.com did. If any casino changes its TOS without informing its users, They are doing shady practice.

However, I wonder if this has happened to anyone recently. I am more than interested to know about this. If it's happened to any users, I want to know which platform it was and what happened to the user. This is shady behavior, and if they are on this forum. The user should create a reputation thread against them so that forum members can evaluate their activity. This is not a regular activity at all.

[danadc]

ToS are not meant to work or be used against a gambler except the gambler was the one found violating the rules stated from it, but if not in this case, any gambling platform found with the violation of these as used against it users should be reported and avoided completely, there are many gambling platforms one can always try out if the one you're using is not trusted anymore and challenges like this make us always advise gamblers not to have the money they cannot afford loosing on their casino wallet.

Going by the first line of your comment, I was going to say that, I've personally come across a situation where a casino kept editing and re-editing their terms or service in a bid to illegally confiscate a user's winning as well as fund left on the user's account.

Scam is everywhere, and scammers implore several means by which they try to carry out their nefarious acts without being suspected.

Anyways, you've spoken well, users never should leave their funds on a casino account, and also report every activity of the casino that looks suspicious.

But if that casino is still there , it is something that I Imagine many people should not have , because nobody is going to Stay in a casino where the rules of the game are constantly being Changed for convenience, if nothing else , Dramas are created for less , now that the rules are changing statutes of a casino so that they can Defend themselves against small problems that makes me Understand that the casino does not have enough money to Respond to its clients and is not Capable of operating , and I do not know why it should continue Online , but you have to be sure in something , once I accept my Terms and Conditions I am not aware if they make Changes to those levels , so I could easily get scammed in that casino , but how to take care of Yourself and not Fall here?

[Fortify]

Changing of terms and conditions without notifying the users or gamblers is normal with online gambling websites? Then when you did something wrong or about to withdraw your money they will tell you that you don't read their terms and conditions, and you start arguing with them until you decide to read the ToS again and you find out that it's different.

Some gambling websites consist of wicked owners that willingly plan to defraud their users using the ToS against them, or is this normal? Have such happened to anyone on this forum before?

It's not "the new normal". It has always been normal. When accepting a terms of service at any particular site, but particularly ones when you engage in a financial transaction or benefit, then you must agree to their set of rules. This is done to ensure that bonuses are correctly shared to unique users and not all hoarded for the benefit of a few, among many other reasons. I don't feel any sympathy for bonus abusers because they just make it less likely everyone else will benefit in the future and it's driven by pure greed. Be careful making the wrong assumptions, sometimes you might see a spare of fraudulent activity from certain countries or groups, who might publicize their plight of getting banned for rule breaking as part of their fraud strategy.

[South Park]

Changing of terms and conditions without notifying the users or gamblers is normal with online gambling websites? Then when you did something wrong or about to withdraw your money they will tell you that you don't read their terms and conditions, and you start arguing with them until you decide to read the ToS again and you find out that it's different.

Some gambling websites consist of wicked owners that willingly plan to defraud their users using the ToS against them, or is this normal? Have such happened to anyone on this forum before?

No. This is not normal at all. I would say this is scammy behavior. If I remember correctly, a few days ago, Stake.com Changed its terms and conditions. When I logged into my account, I noticed a new window showing they had changed their TOS, and I couldn't close the window until I scrolled it down to the end of it. We know that most casino players don't read the TOS, but they accept the TOS without even reading it during the sign-up process. That doesn't mean casinos don't have to notify a user when they change their TOS. A wise gambling platform should announce its new changes as Stake.com did. If any casino changes its TOS without informing its users, They are doing shady practice.

However, I wonder if this has happened to anyone recently. I am more than interested to know about this. If it's happened to any users, I want to know which platform it was and what happened to the user. This is shady behavior, and if they are on this forum. The user should create a reputation thread against them so that forum members can evaluate their activity. This is not a regular activity at all.

I think the same, the TOS of websites change all the time, who has not seen a similar message when one day they log in into their email account or a social media account? This means the changes were important enough to ask their customers to agree again with those terms, and this is completely normal, however a website that just changes those terms without notifying a single user about it is engaging in dishonest behavior and it would not surprise me if they began to scam their customers shortly after it.

[Outhue]

ToS are not meant to work or be used against a gambler except the gambler was the one found violating the rules stated from it, but if not in this case, any gambling platform found with the violation of these as used against it users should be reported and avoided completely, there are many gambling platforms one can always try out if the one you're using is not trusted anymore and challenges like this make us always advise gamblers not to have the money they cannot afford loosing on their casino wallet.

Some conniving online casinos have used Terms of Service to steal from their customers. They put the entire blame on ToS and they are the ones who benefit from it. If the Terms of Service are changed, they should make sure everyone is notified first.

There are as many scam casinos as there are new crypto projects in the crypto space today. In fact, some online casinos don't intend to stay around for the long run. They want to steal and escape with large sums of money.

It's left for gamblers to choose between the casinos that almost everyone on the forum age using or those that no one is talking about, or those online casinos that has no ANN on Bitcointalk from.

[virasog]

ToS are not meant to work or be used against a gambler except the gambler was the one found violating the rules stated from it, but if not in this case, any gambling platform found with the violation of these as used against it users should be reported and avoided completely, there are many gambling platforms one can always try out if the one you're using is not trusted anymore and challenges like this make us always advise gamblers not to have the money they cannot afford loosing on their casino wallet.

I do not understand why we are so much concerned about the terms of service recently 

My point is that if the casino is legit they will never abuse the term of service to damage their clients. The casino business is not for the short term, it can be a long last one if you have returning customers to your site. No good casino sites will play tricks on the customers using the TOS.

On the other hand, if the casino does not have a good reputation and its sole purpose is to scam its clients, it won't do these cheap things like changing the terms or services to scam people. They would openly scam people as either you scam using ToS or without any reason, in both cases you will lose the business, the casinos will lose their clients and in a worse situation the casino might end up completely.

[maydna]

I think the same, the TOS of websites change all the time, who has not seen a similar message when one day they log in into their email account or a social media account? This means the changes were important enough to ask their customers to agree again with those terms, and this is completely normal, however a website that just changes those terms without notifying a single user about it is engaging in dishonest behavior and it would not surprise me if they began to scam their customers shortly after it.

Unless they use an email that they rarely see, they don't know there is a change in the TOS, and it makes them disappointed after they win and want to withdraw the money. But whatever it is, we should be able to take the time to check the TOS once a month to make sure there are no changes to the regulations so that we don't run into any problems. And the casino should also be able to notify all its members that there is a change in the rules. It will pay attention to the members so they can know before they play.

[BitcoinPanther]

ToS are not meant to work or be used against a gambler except the gambler was the one found violating the rules stated from it, but if not in this case, any gambling platform found with the violation of these as used against it users should be reported and avoided completely, there are many gambling platforms one can always try out if the one you're using is not trusted anymore and challenges like this make us always advise gamblers not to have the money they cannot afford loosing on their casino wallet.

True that, TOS are not there to punish players.  TOS are created to serve as guidelines on how casino works.  It is also an information for players to follow in accessing the site since. It gives rulings, terminologies, the do's and don'ts and laws that covers the validity of the casino operation.

If the player did not breach any terms on the TOS, then there is no way a casino can use it against a user.  We often see casino use TOS in banning gamblers because this gamblers is suspected to break the TOS but most reputable casino always verify their suspicion first by before permanently banning the player.

[Webetcoins]

Changing of terms and conditions without notifying the users or gamblers is normal with online gambling websites? Then when you did something wrong or about to withdraw your money they will tell you that you don't read their terms and conditions, and you start arguing with them until you decide to read the ToS again and you find out that it's different.

Some gambling websites consist of wicked owners that willingly plan to defraud their users using the ToS against them, or is this normal? Have such happened to anyone on this forum before?

No. This is not normal at all. I would say this is scammy behavior. If I remember correctly, a few days ago, Stake.com Changed its terms and conditions. When I logged into my account, I noticed a new window showing they had changed their TOS, and I couldn't close the window until I scrolled it down to the end of it. We know that most casino players don't read the TOS, but they accept the TOS without even reading it during the sign-up process. That doesn't mean casinos don't have to notify a user when they change their TOS. A wise gambling platform should announce its new changes as Stake.com did. If any casino changes its TOS without informing its users, They are doing shady practice.

However, I wonder if this has happened to anyone recently. I am more than interested to know about this. If it's happened to any users, I want to know which platform it was and what happened to the user. This is shady behavior, and if they are on this forum. The user should create a reputation thread against them so that forum members can evaluate their activity. This is not a regular activity at all.

I don't think that a reputable or trusted platform would do that at all, Stake is the most famous casino and sports book of the current time and if they don't inform their users after changing or modifying their terms and conditions, it will surely affect their reputation that they've earned within the community and everyone will start doubting their integrity for sure, they will lose a lot of players for that too.

A new casino that isn't much popular yet or have much of a reputation might do something like that where they might make a change in some of the rules in their terms and conditions and don't notify their users about it, which is obviously not a normal thing and shouldn't be done at all.