Using ToS against users normal?

[klidex]

If you only leave small amounts of funds at the casino, that's not a problem, but if gamblers use large amounts of money to gamble, it is better to withdraw it immediately after playing and decide to stop to avoid bad things.
Even though playing at a trusted casino, caution and vigilance must remain a priority.

I agree with you and however keeping large funds in the casino is a risky thing especially if the funds are really in very large amounts.
I'm sure some wealthy gamblers make deposits and withdrawals around the clock to keep the money they gamble with safe, although it does cost more but if it's worth the security of the money then cost is not an issue.

By the way, many gamblers complain of problems because they forget to read the TOS at the casino, so they violate existing rules and their accounts or money are frozen.
I think that every gambler should read the high five before registering or depositing their money.
This kind of thing is very unfortunate because they actually blame the casino for the problems they have caused themselves.

But the problem is reading the ToS takes a bit longer so gamblers are lazy to read all the ToS rules because they sometimes gamble just for fun so they don't think too much about these rules.
It's just that sometimes gamblers are lucky to get big wins but break the rules so that it causes problems in gambling.

[John Abraham]

I don't think that a reputable or trusted platform would do that at all, Stake is the most famous casino and sports book of the current time and if they don't inform their users after changing or modifying their terms and conditions, it will surely affect their reputation that they've earned within the community and everyone will start doubting their integrity for sure, they will lose a lot of players for that too.

A new casino that isn't much popular yet or have much of a reputation might do something like that where they might make a change in some of the rules in their terms and conditions and don't notify their users about it, which is obviously not a normal thing and shouldn't be done at all.

As I said earlier in another post, Stake has changed their TOS about KYC for new users, and they updated their old users with a pop-up window to ensure their users know the new TOS update. If any casinos change their TOS and do not inform their users, there is something shady behind it. This cannot be considered as a regular practice because I accept some TOS doesn't mean I will accept the new TOS. If I don't know the new TOS and then the casino accuses me of violating the new TOS and confiscates my winnings or bans me for violating the new TOS. This is not my fault. It's the casino's fault that they did not notify me of their ToS Changes.

However, This thing never happened to me. Else I would not let them go. I asked OP whether this was his imaginary question or maybe this happened with someone in recent days. We would like to know that. As far I remember, I have seen Betcoin.Ag tagged by a DT member for changing their ToS without informing their players. I did not explore the reference thread. I am not sure if they really did that. That was an old case, so I did not want to dig it again. But, if it happens in recent days, everyone should stand against it.

[buwaytress]

Yeah, I think in most cases, casinos do have quite terrible ToS, particularly in crypto gambling. Unfortunately, letter of the law says if you sign up, and accept them, you must abide by them. I have issue with the "ironclad" clause where casino reserves the right to void winnings if suspicious activity is detected (paraphrasing) but is not required to provide evidence or clarity on what that is.

That part's clear: sign up, accept, and you abide by ToS.

But what OP points out is a change to ToS, and that I must agree is unlawful, if done without the customer being informed. Pretty sure that the legal consensus is that any change to contract must require agreement of all parties -- not sure if a ToS is a contract between player and casino but to me it means that users must explicitly agree to any ToS changes before they can be enforced. Disagree, and you withdraw your casino membership, simple as that.

[LGD2Business]

The ToS is always very long and usually no one reads it, until for some reason your account is closed or your bets are void. Users should approve a simpler and more understandable text when signing up. When too many procedures and details are involved, no one reads that article, and at the end of this, the website owner can use ToS as he wishes. Important details should always be underlined so that the user knows what they are dealing with.
I don't think there will be a change in this direction because this situation is in the interest of website owners.
Most sites issue warning text when ToS changes. I don't think anyone is reading this though. Habits are not easily changed. A user who has been playing on a site for a long time will not switch to another site because the ToS has changed.

[vv181]

But what OP points out is a change to ToS, and that I must agree is unlawful, if done without the customer being informed. Pretty sure that the legal consensus is that any change to contract must require agreement of all parties -- not sure if a ToS is a contract between player and casino but to me it means that users must explicitly agree to any ToS changes before they can be enforced. Disagree, and you withdraw your casino membership, simple as that.

Well, that might be the legal consensus. But it may come differently based on where is the casino operated, and what kind of regulation is applied to the customer's country. I do believe enforcement of terms of service changes without user consent should make the contract void. And that is what should be enforced, at least morally, the consensual agreement.

The notification of contract(ToS) changes should be informed to the user since they have done legally binding agreements in the first place. Failure to do so would disobey user rights. So, speaking further about it, this is where customer protection comes in handy, but only if the casino/user itself is located in a tightly lawful country which has firm regulations relating to the matter.

[Blitzboy]

The ToS is always very long and usually no one reads it, until for some reason your account is closed or your bets are void. Users should approve a simpler and more understandable text when signing up. When too many procedures and details are involved, no one reads that article, and at the end of this, the website owner can use ToS as he wishes. Important details should always be underlined so that the user knows what they are dealing with.
I don't think there will be a change in this direction because this situation is in the interest of website owners.
Most sites issue warning text when ToS changes. I don't think anyone is reading this though. Habits are not easily changed. A user who has been playing on a site for a long time will not switch to another site because the ToS has changed.

These ToS are nothing more than a sly gambit by companies. They obfuscate important details beneath legalese, and us users? We're left in the dark, aren't we? The call for concise and clear ToS is loud, yet it seems to fall on deaf ears. Why? As you rightly pointed out, it serves their interests! They can mold and manipulate the ToS to their liking, can't they? Warnings about ToS changes are mere formalities, just another hoop for them to jump through. Who actually takes the time to read those lengthy documents? And why would seasoned users abandon a familiar platform because of a ToS change? These questions remain unanswered. In this tech-driven age, it's high time companies stepped up and prioritized transparency. Only then can we move towards a fairer digital landscape!

[Doan9269]

The ToS is always very long and usually no one reads it, until for some reason your account is closed or your bets are void. Users should approve a simpler and more understandable text when signing up.

Maybe the gambling casinos should also learn how to summarize these whole thing into one or two pages than the way they often present it sounding unpleasant to the eye for reading because they are just too much, only the most important aspects are needed for the gamblers to see and take note of.

When too many procedures and details are involved, no one reads that article, and at the end of this, the website owner can use ToS as he wishes. Important details should always be underlined so that the user knows what they are dealing with.

They can as well use an underlined mark on those important aspect to take note of, bold or italize them, some can even number them or make use of bullet numbering, but the main idea is to reduce the bulkiness and learn to summarize in other to make it interesting for gamblers to go through them.

[noormcs5]

The ToS is always very long and usually no one reads it, until for some reason your account is closed or your bets are void. Users should approve a simpler and more understandable text when signing up. When too many procedures and details are involved, no one reads that article, and at the end of this, the website owner can use ToS as he wishes. Important details should always be underlined so that the user knows what they are dealing with.
I don't think there will be a change in this direction because this situation is in the interest of website owners.
Most sites issue warning text when ToS changes. I don't think anyone is reading this though. Habits are not easily changed. A user who has been playing on a site for a long time will not switch to another site because the ToS has changed.

The good casino should always be transparent and if there is any change in the terms and condition of the casino they should notified to their gambler publicly as there is nothing to hide in this. Only the scam casino's will try to hide the TOS changes.

Also the users should make a habit to read the terms of service no matter how lengthy they are. They are made for the gamblers and the gambler show read it. In case the gamblers did not follow any gambling casino process and later they get into trouble only because they did not read the terms of service then it is only the fault of the gamblers.

[wiss19]

Yeah, I think in most cases, casinos do have quite terrible ToS, particularly in crypto gambling. Unfortunately, letter of the law says if you sign up, and accept them, you must abide by them. I have issue with the "ironclad" clause where casino reserves the right to void winnings if suspicious activity is detected (paraphrasing) but is not required to provide evidence or clarity on what that is.

That part's clear: sign up, accept, and you abide by ToS.

But what OP points out is a change to ToS, and that I must agree is unlawful, if done without the customer being informed. Pretty sure that the legal consensus is that any change to contract must require agreement of all parties -- not sure if a ToS is a contract between player and casino but to me it means that users must explicitly agree to any ToS changes before they can be enforced. Disagree, and you withdraw your casino membership, simple as that.

I don't really think that a casino is lawfully supposed to inform the user if they make any changes in their terms and conditions or any rules because most of them even have it written in their terms and conditions that they have the right to make any changes or modification in the rules without the consent of the user and if a user agrees with the terms and conditions when signing up, they agree with this too.

But I do find it unethical if a casino simply modifies a rule or adds new ones without letting their customers know, after all, the rules or terms and conditions are for the customers to know and follow and if they don't know about them, there is simply no point in having them.

[Mahanton]

Yeah, I think in most cases, casinos do have quite terrible ToS, particularly in crypto gambling. Unfortunately, letter of the law says if you sign up, and accept them, you must abide by them. I have issue with the "ironclad" clause where casino reserves the right to void winnings if suspicious activity is detected (paraphrasing) but is not required to provide evidence or clarity on what that is.

That part's clear: sign up, accept, and you abide by ToS.

But what OP points out is a change to ToS, and that I must agree is unlawful, if done without the customer being informed. Pretty sure that the legal consensus is that any change to contract must require agreement of all parties -- not sure if a ToS is a contract between player and casino but to me it means that users must explicitly agree to any ToS changes before they can be enforced. Disagree, and you withdraw your casino membership, simple as that.

I don't really think that a casino is lawfully supposed to inform the user if they make any changes in their terms and conditions or any rules because most of them even have it written in their terms and conditions that they have the right to make any changes or modification in the rules without the consent of the user and if a user agrees with the terms and conditions when signing up, they agree with this too.

But I do find it unethical if a casino simply modifies a rule or adds new ones without letting their customers know, after all, the rules or terms and conditions are for the customers to know and follow and if they don't know about them, there is simply no point in having them.

If that was stated on the time for a certain user who do just read it up before they do able to play then they cant really make out some complaints in regarding to that because it would really just simply be easily
counteract if ever there would be some suing just because its been stated on there on the first place unless if there's none then you could really make possibly fight on but we know that changing up terms
specially the crucial ones would definitely be putting up on someones mind some questions on how the heck they had been able to changed it up right away which is in lined with your current issue?
Of course you would really be having that kind of thinking that they might be able to changed it up just to make it look that theyre the ones who had been telling the truth. This is why it would really be that important
that you should really be reading up terms and if possible you should really be that making some screenshot if you are really that paranoid when it comes to changes or you do have some trust issues.
Somehow it is really hard to debate against with a platform knowing that they could really be able to show up some evidences that you had missed nor violated of their terms because we know that once a
certain thing is been violated then you cant really blame them on about being locked up or what.

[pawel7777]

I don't really think that a casino is lawfully supposed to inform the user if they make any changes in their terms and conditions or any rules because most of them even have it written in their terms and conditions that they have the right to make any changes or modification in the rules without the consent of the user and if a user agrees with the terms and conditions when signing up, they agree with this too.

ToS do not supersede the law and the law would usually require any service to inform its users of any changes to their ToS and give users an option to opt-out if they do not agree with the changes.

Yes, as per standard practice almost every service would give itself a right to change their ToS but that does not mean they don't have to inform its users of the changes (in advance). But the logic you described, why would the casino have any ToS at all? They seem unnecessary in such scenario, as the casino could effectively do anything they wanted.

[dezoel]

The good casino should always be transparent and if there is any change in the terms and condition of the casino they should notified to their gambler publicly as there is nothing to hide in this. Only the scam casino's will try to hide the TOS changes.

Also the users should make a habit to read the terms of service no matter how lengthy they are. They are made for the gamblers and the gambler show read it. In case the gamblers did not follow any gambling casino process and later they get into trouble only because they did not read the terms of service then it is only the fault of the gamblers.

This is true. I know I am playing on an old and legit casino and lately, when I log in to them, the first thing that pop up on my screen is a notice about the change of their Terms and Condition. It's one example on how important it is.

They can always email it or put some notification in our account page but no because they know that a gambler might missed it and they are afraid that they will get blamed once the gambler did a violation due to the recent change. Given that TOS is important, you're right that we need to allocate some time to read it. Don't just read the upper part because we might miss some important information in the middle and at the bottom page of it.

[CarnagexD]

The good casino should always be transparent and if there is any change in the terms and condition of the casino they should notified to their gambler publicly as there is nothing to hide in this. Only the scam casino's will try to hide the TOS changes.

Also the users should make a habit to read the terms of service no matter how lengthy they are. They are made for the gamblers and the gambler show read it. In case the gamblers did not follow any gambling casino process and later they get into trouble only because they did not read the terms of service then it is only the fault of the gamblers.

This is true. I know I am playing on an old and legit casino and lately, when I log in to them, the first thing that pop up on my screen is a notice about the change of their Terms and Condition. It's one example on how important it is.

They can always email it or put some notification in our account page but no because they know that a gambler might missed it and they are afraid that they will get blamed once the gambler did a violation due to the recent change. Given that TOS is important, you're right that we need to allocate some time to read it. Don't just read the upper part because we might miss some important information in the middle and at the bottom page of it.

I would also prefer to get a bookie or a house that is consistent on giving a weekly newspaper for updates. Not just for technical updates and changes but also with the promotion of their outgoing discounts and free plays/bets. Just said, legitimate and established casinos won't just change and shift their TOS and Terms and Conditions in an instant. If there is, there might be an anomaly behind that would prevent users from widthrawing thier funds or putting them in some kind of violations.

[ethereumhunter]

I would also prefer to get a bookie or a house that is consistent on giving a weekly newspaper for updates. Not just for technical updates and changes but also with the promotion of their outgoing discounts and free plays/bets. Just said, legitimate and established casinos won't just change and shift their TOS and Terms and Conditions in an instant. If there is, there might be an anomaly behind that would prevent users from widthrawing thier funds or putting them in some kind of violations.

Usually, casinos or bookies give the option to subscribe to the news provided by the casino, but many gamblers don't pay attention to this and in the end don't choose to subscribe even though it can help them to find out if there are changes to the rules, attractive promotions or even codes that are given out for free.

But even so, it's best for every gambler to visit the rules page regularly to know if there are changes to the rules. Or they can also contact the support service periodically to ask about the rules. So gamblers will know what is going on and can adjust accordingly.

[Dunamisx]

Yeah, I think in most cases, casinos do have quite terrible ToS, particularly in crypto gambling. Unfortunately, letter of the law says if you sign up, and accept them, you must abide by them. I have issue with the "ironclad" clause where casino reserves the right to void winnings if suspicious activity is detected (paraphrasing) but is not required to provide evidence or clarity on what that is.

That part's clear: sign up, accept, and you abide by ToS.

But what OP points out is a change to ToS, and that I must agree is unlawful, if done without the customer being informed. Pretty sure that the legal consensus is that any change to contract must require agreement of all parties -- not sure if a ToS is a contract between player and casino but to me it means that users must explicitly agree to any ToS changes before they can be enforced. Disagree, and you withdraw your casino membership, simple as that.

I don't really think that a casino is lawfully supposed to inform the user if they make any changes in their terms and conditions or any rules because most of them even have it written in their terms and conditions that they have the right to make any changes or modification in the rules without the consent of the user and if a user agrees with the terms and conditions when signing up, they agree with this too.

But I do find it unethical if a casino simply modifies a rule or adds new ones without letting their customers know, after all, the rules or terms and conditions are for the customers to know and follow and if they don't know about them, there is simply no point in having them.

Following the normal procedures there should be a due notification to back their decision up for the gamblers to get aware of what's going on and not that just of a sudden they begin to see changes they are not aware of or see coming, isn't that part of the reasons why they are taking their gambling details for future use in other to get their contact and get across to them on any new issues or matters arising, it's better they do things the appropriate way than just acting without a prior notice on gamblers effecting a change in policy.

[lionheart78]

I would also prefer to get a bookie or a house that is consistent on giving a weekly newspaper for updates. Not just for technical updates and changes but also with the promotion of their outgoing discounts and free plays/bets. Just said, legitimate and established casinos won't just change and shift their TOS and Terms and Conditions in an instant. If there is, there might be an anomaly behind that would prevent users from widthrawing thier funds or putting them in some kind of violations.

Usually, casinos or bookies give the option to subscribe to the news provided by the casino, but many gamblers don't pay attention to this and in the end don't choose to subscribe even though it can help them to find out if there are changes to the rules, attractive promotions or even codes that are given out for free.

I am one of those who often subscribe for casino newsletter and notification but I seldom check my email the reason why I always miss some important casino event and even freebies.  When I think of it, I am missing a lot of good stuff that the casino offer because these freebies has the possibility to give us a good win without spending or risking fund from our pocket.  Aside from that important news and notices are also sent through email to keep us updated.

But even so, it's best for every gambler to visit the rules page regularly to know if there are changes to the rules. Or they can also contact the support service periodically to ask about the rules. So gamblers will know what is going on and can adjust accordingly.

[Gyfts]

Yes, it's considered as a breach of contract. Any casino can change and modify its terms anytime they like, but they are oblige to let their users know the new terms or the new "contract", because you can disagree with it and leave the site if you don't agree the changes, like they require to agree the terms upon registration.

You can file a case if you have proof that you are not informed about the terms, the accused will be then defend your accusations. Because usually, reputed casino always informed its users by mail, it even has a banner on the site that there are changes on its terms. And they informed its users a head of time usually its weeks to seven days, because they are required to do it.

The ToS exist to protect the company against its users from liability, so consider the ToS to be against the user by default. Not that anyone bothers reading them, but get past a bunch of the legal jargon they probably explicitly state the company reserves the right to change the ToS without notice. It's not fraud in the legal sense -- you agreed to the terms on sign up. You shouldn't be handing out legal advice.

And if you think these casinos operate in jurisdictions amenable to lawsuits then you're mistaken.

[Hamphser]

Yes, it's considered as a breach of contract. Any casino can change and modify its terms anytime they like, but they are oblige to let their users know the new terms or the new "contract", because you can disagree with it and leave the site if you don't agree the changes, like they require to agree the terms upon registration.

You can file a case if you have proof that you are not informed about the terms, the accused will be then defend your accusations. Because usually, reputed casino always informed its users by mail, it even has a banner on the site that there are changes on its terms. And they informed its users a head of time usually its weeks to seven days, because they are required to do it.

The ToS exist to protect the company against its users from liability, so consider the ToS to be against the user by default. Not that anyone bothers reading them, but get past a bunch of the legal jargon they probably explicitly state the company reserves the right to change the ToS without notice. It's not fraud in the legal sense -- you agreed to the terms on sign up. You shouldn't be handing out legal advice.

And if you think these casinos operate in jurisdictions amenable to lawsuits then you're mistaken.

100% no one really bothers on reading them in the first place and this is why on the time that there would really be some changes then you wouldnt really be noticing out.Im wondering on what are the common

things that would be changed up on their TOS which it would be potentially be easily be thrown up on a certain user if they are really that having the intent on not paying them on their winnings?
VPN issue? Bonus wagering changes?  Other violations which is correlated on what user had done?

No matter which angle we would really be looking on which on the time that they would really be having that kind of approach on which throwing up some delays just because of TOS
violation then you would really be having that impression that there's something wrong into this one.

[Wiwo]

But the problem is reading the ToS takes a bit longer so gamblers are lazy to read all the ToS rules because they sometimes gamble just for fun so they don't think too much about these rules.
It's just that sometimes gamblers are lucky to get big wins but break the rules so that which causes problems in gambling.

The problem is not the emptiness of the TOS but the inability of the gamblers to read through them carefully and interpret them in the best clear terms and possible as to know when to apply them to their personal activities at the casino,  I am sure if gamblers take the time to properly study and understand casinos terms and conditions there won't have too much problem finding the ways around the casinos and also have the way to avoid any actions that could violate the rules of the casino.

The thing is that,  while gamblers are mostly concentrated on the games and possibly winning but fail to follow the basic rules.

[Fivestar4everMVP]

But the problem is reading the ToS takes a bit longer so gamblers are lazy to read all the ToS rules because they sometimes gamble just for fun so they don't think too much about these rules.
It's just that sometimes gamblers are lucky to get big wins but break the rules so that which causes problems in gambling.

The problem is not the emptiness of the TOS but the inability of the gamblers to read through them carefully and interpret them in the best clear terms and possible as to know when to apply them to their personal activities at the casino,  I am sure if gamblers take the time to properly study and understand casinos terms and conditions there won't have too much problem finding the ways around the casinos and also have the way to avoid any actions that could violate the rules of the casino.

The thing is that,  while gamblers are mostly concentrated on the games and possibly winning but fail to follow the basic rules.

You are right, but come to think of it, how many gamblers really do give any credence to the terms of service of a casino by reading them before maybe signing up  on the casino or depositing and playing on the casino? I think a very few persons if at all there is any..
I can use myself as an example, when signing up on a casino and have money waiting that I need to deposit and place some bets with, the last thing on my mind is to spend any extra hour reading something i might end up not even understanding clearly.

This is not to discourage any one from reading, I am just being true to my self atleast, a regular gambler clearly does not make out time to read TOS of gambling casinos, except for the few exceptional, more professional ones.