The wikipedia entry for "Bitcoin" is so bearish...

[Dotto]

Just to taste the general flavour of the whole entry:

According to economists, to qualify as money something must be a store of value, a medium of exchange, and a unit of account.[71] Bitcoins cannot be considered money because they don't hold all three properties.[71]

Economist John Quiggin stated, "bitcoins will attain their true value of zero sooner or later, but it is impossible to say when."[87] In 2013, Bank of America FX and Rate Strategist David Woo forecast a maximum fair value per bitcoin of $1,300.[98] Bitcoin investor Cameron Winklevoss stated in 2013 that the "bull case scenario for bitcoin is... 40,000 USD a coin".[99] In late 2013, finance professor Mark Williams forecast a bitcoin would be worth less than ten US dollars by July 2014.[100]

It has full blown bearish sections but almost no bit of objetive information about the positive strenghts of the divise.

6 Criminal activity
6.1 Black markets
6.2 Money laundering
6.3 Ponzi scheme
6.4 Thefts
6.5 Malware

I have a hard time editing it because English is not my native languaje, but I call you to action in case you were an English wikipedist inclined to do so.

[madmadmax]

It is bearish, but it is true that Bitcoin isn't money, neither is USD, Euro YEN or any other currency out there. Currency is currency and money is money.

Money is things with true value that aren't based on someone promising you that it will be worth something tomorrow (certainly not a bunch of criminals), things like Gold, Silver, Platinum etc.

[twiifm]

It is bearish, but it is true that Bitcoin isn't money, neither is USD, Euro YEN or any other currency out there. Currency is currency and money is money.

Money is things with true value that aren't based on someone promising you that it will be worth something tomorrow (certainly not a bunch of criminals), things like Gold, Silver, Platinum etc.

Not quite.  Monetary instruments are financial instruments. Like all financial instruments, monetary instruments have an issuer who promises to do something in the future. There are one or two common promises embedded in monetary instruments. One is that they are convertible into something else, another is that the issuer will accept them as final means of payment from his debtors.

Federal Reserve notes currently only contain one promise, the government will take them in payment at anytime (either directly or through the banking system in case tractability and security of payments are required).

Gold itself is not money but gold coins are monetary instruments.  Gold coins have an extra feature, they are collateralized by the value of the gold content. Gold bullions were never financial instruments (they contain no promise), they are real assets, i.e. commodities (payments made with them are payments in-kind).

Given the nature of monetary instruments, they have also other characteristics common to all financial instruments. First, all financial instruments are accounting creatures. They are the asset of the bearer and the liability of the issuer. Gold coins were the liability of, e.g., the King, Federal Reserve notes are liability of the Federal Reserve, and coins are the liability of the Treasury. Currency is their liability because they (at least) promise to take their currency from bearers in payments at any time; issuers owe that to the bearers. That is partly how their scarcity is controlled. Second, all financial instruments have a fair value that is defined as the discount value of future streams of monetary payments.

[Bit_Happy]

It's much more simple:
BTC is Money since others accept it as money.
Prior to the $10,000BTC pizza, the point was a lot more debatable.

[twiifm]

It's much more simple:
BTC is Money since others accept it as money.
Prior to the $10,000BTC pizza, the point was a lot more debatable.

You only defined barter not money.  If I accept sea shells as payment for my pizza it doesn't make sea shells money.  But sea shells can be money if The King issues it as money and he backs the promissory of its value

[Swordsoffreedom]

It's much more simple:
BTC is Money since others accept it as money.
Prior to the $10,000BTC pizza, the point was a lot more debatable.

Wikipedias article is supposed to be neutral right so should a proposal from someone with better knowledge be sent aka an edit

[MatthewLM]

Money and currency are virtually synonymous in everyday language.

[twiifm]

Money and currency are virtually synonymous in everyday language.

Currency is a representation of money.  One dollar bill represents 1 USD, 10 dollar bill represents 10 USD.

Money are financial instruments.  Dollar is a unit of account for Federal Reserve notes which is issued by US govt as promissory of "legal tender".  Meaning the govt will accept is as payment of debt.  i.e. taxes.  That's what makes it money

[madmadmax]

Educate yourselves pls

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OQWMd_NPSBA

[twiifm]

Money and currency are virtually synonymous in everyday language.

Currency is a representation of money.  One dollar bill represents 1 USD, 10 dollar bill represents 10 USD.

Money are financial instruments.  Dollar is a unit of account for Federal Reserve notes which is issued by US govt as promissory of "legal tender".  Meaning the govt will accept is as payment of debt.  i.e. taxes.  That's what makes it money

Apparently you believe that money does not exist without an authority. What a strange concept.

Money is conceptual.  Its an accounting instrument.  A way to to keep score

The reason it goes back to an issuer is that it is basically an IOU.  So it requires an issuer to back the value.  

Before Central Banks, banking was DECENTRALIZED.  Meaning each regional bank issued its own currency.  Has nothing to do with authority.  Just that the value of the currency is a promissory of the issuer.  So if you receive a note from Citibank for lets say $1 of gold you need to go back to Citibank to cash in your $1 of gold.  As you can see this made trading notes between different banks quite difficult.  That's why we switched to Central Banking.

W bitcoin there is no issuer.  Bitcoins are magically mined into existence like fiat.  The block chain is a ledger but there is no issuer to guarantee the value.  Its entirely faith based.  Thats why it's not good as money  it only has value if the users believe in it.  The USD is not like this.  We are legally obligated to pay taxes in dollars or we go to jail.  Its the only legal tender.  This requirement insures a constant and perpetual demand for USD.  You don't need to believe in USD for it to have value.  Its this stability that allowed us to remove the gold standard

[SlipperySlope]

Coincidentally I am a Wikipedia editor, having authored and improved various articles in my computer science research field.

I read the article and the associated Talk discussion.  I find the article factual, appropriately balanced and sourced considering the inherent conservatism of active editors. Given the continued adoption of Bitcoin, I expect the mood of editors to become more positive over time as more of them actually hold bitcoins.

I edited the Bitcoin ATM English Wikipedia article in the adoption section to mention that Austin, Texas, USA now has three Robocoin ATMs. Also I added a reference to the Bitcoin Network article. Note that the editors are complaining that the Bitcoin Network article is mostly copied from Satoshi's whitepaper - which is improper according to Wikipedia policy. It should be rewritten in a more clear manner without relying on undefined terms.

In some more spare time, I will rewrite parts of the Network article in a manner that makes it more understandable - if no else does it first. Anyone can edit Wikipedia - but your contributions must meet the reasonable editing policy: factual, balanced, and sourced.

[twiifm]

The block chain is a ledger but there is no issuer to guarantee the value.

I'm fairly certain that is a feature, not a flaw.

Alll I'm saying is bitcoin is entirely faith based because no issuer backs the value.  This makes then entire system unstable and can crash if that faith is challenged

[Peter R]

We are legally obligated to pay taxes in dollars or we go to jail.  Its the only legal tender.  This requirement insures a constant and perpetual demand for USD.  

Is this the reason why no fiat currency has ever failed?  


Sometimes they just get really cheap, e.g., Weimar, Zimbabwe, Argentina, etc., etc.

[Beliathon]

Money is things with true value that aren't based on someone promising you that it will be worth something tomorrow (certainly not a bunch of criminals), things like Gold, Silver, Platinum etc.

If all the humans who value those things (Gold, Silver, Platinum, etc.) die today, those things wouldn't be money either, so I think your definition is lacking.

True value doesn't exist. Value is a relationship. Something or someone has to give value the object being valued.

This.

[twiifm]

We are legally obligated to pay taxes in dollars or we go to jail.  Its the only legal tender.  This requirement insures a constant and perpetual demand for USD.  

Is this the reason why no fiat currency has ever failed?  


Sometimes they just get really cheap, e.g., Weimar, Zimbabwe, Argentina, etc., etc.

They usually fail because the issuer can't guarantee the future of its value.  

BTW bitcoin is also fiat except its not back by an issuer.  Its magically made into existence through "mining".  Fiat means it is not convertible to something else like gold

[DobZombie]

Just because some dope in the U.S. declares that Bitcoin isn't money, doesn't make it true.

[counter]

always nice to see something like this.  I for one think value is in the eye of the beholder. 

[madmadmax]

Money is things with true value that aren't based on someone promising you that it will be worth something tomorrow (certainly not a bunch of criminals), things like Gold, Silver, Platinum etc.

If all the humans who value those things (Gold, Silver, Platinum, etc.) die today, those things wouldn't be money either, so I think your definition is lacking.

True value doesn't exist. Value is a relationship. Something or someone has to give value the object being valued.

Please stop trying to blur the line between actual useful resources and fancy seashells that you and your pals dug up, some things have intrinsic values like Gold, some thing have value for their use as a currency and the free market (such as Bitcoin) some have none like USD.

Since opinions on the ideal currency change this only leaves Gold with solid intrinsic values, you can no more call a dollar bill money than a seashell.

[seriouscoin]

The block chain is a ledger but there is no issuer to guarantee the value.

I'm fairly certain that is a feature, not a flaw.

Alll I'm saying is bitcoin is entirely faith based because no issuer backs the value.  This makes then entire system unstable and can crash if that faith is challenged

What an idiot.

Define value idiot.

10USD will always be 10USD but its value is never the same thro times.

[seriouscoin]

Money is things with true value that aren't based on someone promising you that it will be worth something tomorrow (certainly not a bunch of criminals), things like Gold, Silver, Platinum etc.

If all the humans who value those things (Gold, Silver, Platinum, etc.) die today, those things wouldn't be money either, so I think your definition is lacking.

True value doesn't exist. Value is a relationship. Something or someone has to give value the object being valued.

Please stop trying to blur the line between actual useful resources and fancy seashells that you and your pals dug up, some things have intrinsic values like Gold, some thing have value for their use as a currency and the free market (such as Bitcoin) some have none like USD.

Since opinions on the ideal currency change this only leaves Gold with solid intrinsic values, you can no more call a dollar bill money than a seashell.

There is no such thing as "intrinsic value"

Value is from utility. Without it, its just a perceived value.

Did Uranium have any value 100 yrs ago?

Stupid gold bugs.