Bitcoin is dead, long live ... what?

[TheSpiral]

Bitcoin is not going anywhere and your post show that you are fond of altcoins and have no respect for btc. NFTS are implement in Btc chain and we faced high fee and failed of transaction some weeks ago but now everything become normal and gas fee is down. The Altcoins you mentioned are not trust Worthy. Btc is most trusted coins and will never die.

[ahoenk]

Bitcoin is dying, it is not surviving the NFT attack. The mempool is permanently clogged with ordnials, and the developers don't seem to have any resistance plans. Even here, at these forums, there a lot of trolls writing dozens of layers of abstract nonsense in support of ordinals and totally ignoring the fact that normal payments with bitcoin have become impossible, as simple as that.

It's been a few months now, and there are no tiniest signs of recovery. That was it. I'm going to exchange my bitcoins to another cryptocurrency now. Since I am switching currencies anyway, I want to choose a good one, preferably eliminating the other problems bitcoin has (apart from ordinals), and not gaining more problems. I think I'm not the only one here who thinks about the same ideas, so I am creating this thread.

Specifically, for me at least, "a good currency" means the following:

1. Decentralization, at least the same level as bitcoin has.
2. Open-source, preferably with a package available in one of the major linux distributions (this ensures at least some level of information safety).
3. Privacy must be better than bitcoin has. Mixers are a very weak point of bitcoin, making a lot of centralization necessary.
4. A strong anti-NFT position of developers. After switching currencies, I don't want to face the same problem I escaped from.

My own research:

I found 3 popular currencies that (apparently?) meet these criteria, more or less: dash, monero, and zcash. As for open-source, they all have sources available for download, but the only one I found in a major official repo was monero, in debian. On the other hand, monero still looks "beta" in the sense that the version number starts with 0, unlike with dash or zcash.

Speaking of privacy, I see some contradictory information. Sometimes I see claims that monero offers better privacy, sometimes I see claims that monero "mixes" your transaction only with transfers of the same or similar amounts, while zcash "mixes" your transaction with many more others. Does anyone here know better or more precise details?

Speaking of NFT, I could not find any specific information about dash or zcash. Monero seems to resist. It looks like they have limited "the size of tx_extra" (if I understand correctly, this is some kind of "comments" field, and this was what the NFT attackers used against bitcoin) to 1k (https://github.com/monero-project/monero/pull/8733), hoping that this will eliminate NFT.

Any other opinions, advantages, or disadvantages of these 3 currencies?

Its not that bad, i know you are btc maxis but ordinal is good attraction to people who willing to do the NFT thing. Did you see how much marketcap has been stolen from btc to those NFT's chain ? It is more then half of trillion dollar. The other thing about inscription is BRC20. BRC20 will not survive if nobody can upgrade it, because it is still NFT and not fungible like token on smart contract.

[jaberwock]

If Bitcoin dies, then we will most likely find it difficult to buy these cryptocurrencies because it is difficult to find an exchange that lists them, and therefore their price will be lower, which means more centralization if the demand for the currency decreases. It is true that Bitcoin is not ideal, but the reasons you mentioned are more fears than real problems, and the most altcoins has lower fees or less congestion in the blocks because its blocks are large and most of those blocks are mined empty so you need several blocks before your transaction is considered secure while in Bitcoin, one confirmation is enough.

First of all, I don't think Bitcoin will die. It's just not possible due to the heavy demand that it is getting day by day. Secondly, if let say it's possible and only those privacy coins are left, I think there will always be exchange that will list them. For now, when I check Monero, it is still listed on many big exchangers including Binance. It might also be available on a decentralized exchange because this is where its nature at, to be private.

We can also buy and sell it in the forum, social media sites, Telegram and other platforms. And who says Bitcoin is not ideal? Then what crypto is ideal? Currently there are no cryptos who are on the level of BTC. It is the most ideal coin here in the crypto world.

[yohananaomi]

Bitcoin is not going anywhere and your post show that you are fond of altcoins and have no respect for btc. NFTS are implement in Btc chain and we faced high fee and failed of transaction some weeks ago but now everything become normal and gas fee is down. The Altcoins you mentioned are not trust Worthy.

I agree with you, friend, everything always has a process and must be done where if there is a problem, the situation is sure to make it happen, with patience you will definitely return to the situation, because everything must continue to go well and will be normal and it happens often and repeats .

Btc is most trusted coins and will never die.

agree, if everyone doesn't believe in the existence of bitcoin then it is certain that crypto will also disappear and be buried together with bitcoin, it seems that it will be difficult to happen but if others disappear and are replaced by new ones, it often happens, not for bitcoin.

[vekkuyam40]

If you all still hope that bitcoin will recover, what are you doing here, at the altcoins forum, instead of the main forum branch, specifically the ordinals thread? I've been seeing such recovery hopes from the very beginning of ordinals, like "just wait a week and it will all be gone", "it's just a hype, just wait a few more weeks", "just wait a month or two", etc. And I am watching the mempool size, and I see 100MB, 200MB, 300MB, and no recovery. And the blockchain is rapidly transforming from a transaction database into a modern art trash database. How long do you suggest to wait further? You are not even suggesting any resistance plans (or speaking about any resistance happening without our help), you are suggesting to just wait and hope.

No, thanks. I've been waiting enough, this is a made decision for me. I wasn't asking if there is hope for bitcoin recovery. I was asking, and I am still asking, which altcoin is better, which one meets the 4 criteria better.

And please don't suggest ETH, it was an utter garbage from the very beginning, with it's dreadful for privacy idea of "reputation of addresses". And if I remember correctly, the NFT attack was originally introduced and tested (and is still ongoing) exactly there, before the production-run on bitcoin.

zcash is not a currency of privacy, and here you will find yourself between Dash, which offers acceptable privacy in exchange for ease of use, and Monero, which represents better privacy with difficulty in use.

Thank you for the only comment that actually tries to answer my question. Could you be more specific? What are the main privacy issues/attack vectors with zcash? What are the priacy flaws of dash (that make you call it's pivacy just "acceptable" in contrast with monero's "better" privacy)?

PS I don't care about legality. Bitcoin and all other cryptocurrenies were de facto illegal and politically incorrect from the very beginning, and it was, and it is just a matter of time when it becomes illegal de jure, unless the governments finds a way to destroy crypto differently, with the NFT attacks, for example. All legal life available is rapidly shrinking to pray on SJWs, repent, and beg for their forgiveness. We all will be illegal people very soon (and de facto we already are), the question is, how to survive that. The question is not, which cryptocurrencies the SJWs will mercifully permit, the question is, which cryptocurrencies are able to resist.

[SyndicateLabs]

(...)

See for yourself how your problems affect your investment journey with the crypto market. I just want to reiterate the mainstream bitcoin in crypto and it will be very hard to change, but you may also like to look for limitations and find out for yourself what you consider potential or opportunity, and everything is completely free in all decisions. My view on investing with this market, everything that says complicated is very complicated but thinks it's simple is actually very simple, the ability to evaluate as well as the ability to spend capital every day people will be different, so it offers different criteria.

[TelolettOm]

Are you sure that it's not surviving? I think that you have to look again at mempool. Yeah, it's annoying that it has become quite expensive for the transaction fees thanks to ordinals but that doesn't mean it's not surviving. Because if you say so then there's no way that everyone will keep up with Bitcoin and will stay on this.

It is only his speculation, Bitcoin will stay as long as we have crypto market. Bitcoin cannot be separated from crypto world because it is the main coin. I believe crypto may disappear if we have no more Bitcoin. It is like the soul of all crypto coins, not only as the mother of crypto coins. Just imagine, who will trust other crypto coins if the main coin (BTC) dies?

Regarding the transfer fees, I know it is increasing but it still can be acceptable. I'm sure the transfer fees will be decreasing in the future, just keep patient until it decreases. In my opinion, OP thinks BTC will die because the price seems difficult to increase now, it is not about the transfer fees. I don't know how OP is really sure about that, he probably doesn't understand about the bearish-bullish season. He is not aware that we are still in the bearish season, that's why the price still can't increase quickly and significantly.

[naikturun]

Even with the congestion of the current and subsequent network in the Bitcoin blockchain, it is not enough for you to call Bitcoin dead and at some point, I don't see the network crisis as an attack from other developers on the Bitcoin network just to keep it from scaling, it's still very ok and welcomed to see such if that be, because of such attacks will help to build the network in a more formidable manner.


I am sure most bitcoin users are finding their way around the crisis and by so doing,  choosing the right time and fees for your transactions, so by so doing you can effortlessly avoid paying such exorbitant fees and waiting time.

I also don't see any death from bitcoin, currently the crypto market is sluggish but development can still be done.
so shouldn't call bitcoin dead, because this is just a decline phase.

[usekevin]

5t
See for yourself how your problems affect your investment journey with the crypto market. I just want to reiterate the mainstream bitcoin in crypto and it will be very hard to change, but you may also like to look for limitations and find out for yourself what you consider potential or opportunity, and everything is completely free in all decisions. My view on investing with this market, everything that says complicated is very complicated but thinks it's simple is actually very simple, the ability to evaluate as well as the ability to spend capital every day people will be different, so it offers different criteria.

The real time problem will make you to depend on the invested money.So if you are going to use the money for the problem,then you are force to use the capital investment.Then you will withdraw the funds with profit or loss.If you withdraw with the profit,their will be no problem.But if you lose the money by withdrawing at loss,it will be the big burden.When you plan to invest the market, you need to wait for the market to respond in positive way.So that we can earn from complete trade.

[Rupok]

A kingdom without a king is never possible, Bitcoin is the king of the cryptocurrency world. If the king dies, no subjects will survive.I don't understand why people keep thinking that Bitcoin will die, but Bitcoin has faced many challenges and has continuously recovered and become stronger day by day.Currently there is no exchange where Bitcoin is not listed and there is no crypto that is not at the level of BTC. Everyone knows that Bitcoin is the most popular currency in the crypto world.

[blockman]

Are you sure that it's not surviving? I think that you have to look again at mempool. Yeah, it's annoying that it has become quite expensive for the transaction fees thanks to ordinals but that doesn't mean it's not surviving. Because if you say so then there's no way that everyone will keep up with Bitcoin and will stay on this.

It is only his speculation, Bitcoin will stay as long as we have crypto market. Bitcoin cannot be separated from crypto world because it is the main coin. I believe crypto may disappear if we have no more Bitcoin. It is like the soul of all crypto coins, not only as the mother of crypto coins. Just imagine, who will trust other crypto coins if the main coin (BTC) dies?

Regarding the transfer fees, I know it is increasing but it still can be acceptable. I'm sure the transfer fees will be decreasing in the future, just keep patient until it decreases. In my opinion, OP thinks BTC will die because the price seems difficult to increase now, it is not about the transfer fees.

We've been hearing about such countless times and people think that it's really happening just because the fees were quite up and when it's quite slow.
The fees have dropped as I have been looking at it at most times and it's really intriguing to see people that deal always with their arguments about the fees. Yeah, it's important but they have to look at that picture that it's not gonna be high always. It was up but not anymore today and it's stabilizing to its fees and keeps on decreasing.

I don't know how OP is really sure about that, he probably doesn't understand about the bearish-bullish season. He is not aware that we are still in the bearish season, that's why the price still can't increase quickly and significantly.

At least for its price, it's stabilizing as well. They're rushing to see new ATH and will turn into kind holders and investors when it does.

[icalical]

This is a joke right? Bitcoin is not dying, it is currently still the highest market cap on the crypto market. Most of the altcoin price is still dependent on Bitcoin, so Bitcoin is far from dying. It is true that the hype for Bitcoin and Crypto in general is decreasing but it doesn't mean Bitcoin or crypto itself is dying. From my point of view, Bitcoin will just need to sustain a little bit more time to prove that it's reliable

[abel1337]

I've saw bitcoin is dead post here too many times already and everyone including them is partying with their gains when bitcoin rise up in value during bull market. What ever bad image bitcoin had in the past, and today which is ordinals. Bitcoin won't die because of it. With the number of supporters even if bitcoin is suffering from a gas price crisis, there are someone who are still willing to use it. Remember the outragous ETH gas fee before? When NFT and nft based altcoins are on trend? There are someone who  doesn't really care that much on how much they spend on gas fees. There are also concious ones who are thinking if they will push through a transaction but in the end, they do it anyways. Bitcoin always has a demand and just like what happened to ETH last bull market, No one will care about gas fees if they really want bitcoins.

[gaston castano]

Even with the congestion of the current and subsequent network in the Bitcoin blockchain, it is not enough for you to call Bitcoin dead and at some point, I don't see the network crisis as an attack from other developers on the Bitcoin network just to keep it from scaling, it's still very ok and welcomed to see such if that be, because of such attacks will help to build the network in a more formidable manner.


I am sure most bitcoin users are finding their way around the crisis and by so doing,  choosing the right time and fees for your transactions, so by so doing you can effortlessly avoid paying such exorbitant fees and waiting time.

I'm also confused, how can they call it dead, because right now bitcoin and the entire crypto market is in a downward phase, but when the time comes, I think the op will change his words, because he said based on the situation and not looking at history.

[davide72]

bitcoin did not die in 2022 when FTX and many important projects failed, I do not think it will fail in the future, I would say instead be careful with altcoins because they can fail

[AmoreJaz]

This is a joke right? Bitcoin is not dying, it is currently still the highest market cap on the crypto market. Most of the altcoin price is still dependent on Bitcoin, so Bitcoin is far from dying. It is true that the hype for Bitcoin and Crypto in general is decreasing but it doesn't mean Bitcoin or crypto itself is dying. From my point of view, Bitcoin will just need to sustain a little bit more time to prove that it's reliable

how many times people post that BTC is dying, and yet, it is still standing to where it is right now. no alt has replaced its position yet, and not seeing that in the very near future.
the OP might revise his post. and contemplate on the reality about BTC market. i don't know the reason why the OP seemed to be in favour with dash, monero or zcash aside from his mentioned features. but maybe, he's holding some of these alts. but need to accept the fact that before any alt will surpass BTC, it should at least attain the popularity of usage of BTC

[Reatim]

Bitcoin is not going anywhere and your post show that you are fond of altcoins and have no respect for btc. NFTS are implement in Btc chain and we faced high fee and failed of transaction some weeks ago but now everything become normal and gas fee is down. The Altcoins you mentioned are not trust Worthy. Btc is most trusted coins and will never die.

obviously , He is shilling for altcoins that is why he keeps telling Bitcoin to be hopeless , if bitcoin will die then what about altcoin? will this be enough for us to believe in everything he says?
and also the fee now is lowering day by day  so what is the sense of pointing about the high fee when it is almost over now.

bitcoin did not die in 2022 when FTX and many important projects failed, I do not think it will fail in the future, I would say instead be careful with altcoins because they can fail

believe in what you said and OP is going nowhere from his perspective .

[Sebas.tian]

I don't think, your research is correct by saying Bitcoin is dying because the market price just drop down for investors to use the opportunity to buy and hodl for the bullish market to come before they can sell to make a passive income. I will advice you to use this period to increase your capital to purchase Bitcoin and apply long term hodling like 2 or 3 years before you can visit the market to know that Bitcoin is not dead but live forever. Based on the signs that is going on in the market since the beginning of this year, showed that those altcoins you mentioned can't take the place of Bitcoin in the nearest future so you need to change your mind to potential coins that will make you feel good when you sell.

[huu78]

no one said bitcoin is dead, if you say so it means you haven't seen bitcoin fall very deeply from 19600 to 3000 in 2018, it also happened this year but not as bad as yesterday, because many have adopted bitcoin, so the price will continue going up, and also the low point will be different from the last time.

[nimogsm]

problems with the mempool are temporary and they do not pose any threat. Therefore, the headline turned out to be very loud, but in fact your fears are in vain. Many people trade and hold bitcoin on exchanges and do not withdraw it from there, so many people do not even know that there are problems with transactions now.