Did BC Change the Algo???

[astaroth81]

Anyone who has played here for awhile and is familiar with coin flip would you say the game is playing differently now then how it was a week ago?

For me and others, it seems that they have stepped up the level of rigging to where it is actually changing the outcome of the game in real time.

I know ppl will claim "probably fair" but that's a load of bull just to make games seem fair to attract users. This game is literally doing the exact opposite of what I do. It's learning and predicting my moves and doing what I just did right after I did it.

It's messed up because for us not familiar with developing and all the complex technical stuff it's hard for us to even describe the situation.

And that's nothing new. Ppl in tech always abuse their power and knowledge and take advantage of the uninformed and I'm positive BC is not the "fair and transparent" casino they claim to be. 

Another user told me they even changed the algo for crash back in April. They supposedly announced it and told people but I didn't hear about it until now. That too caused me to suffer massive losses.

I just think it's fucked up how they do this shit without making sure people know.

I get that if the game is too easy and too many people are profiting off it they will go out of business and so they need to make changes to make it profitable for themselves.

But the level of rigging involved now with coin flip is absurd. Typically a game gets harder as a player moves further into profit the algo gets harder that is understandable.

The way BC has coin flip now is it just rapes the fuck out of your bankroll and doesn't allow the slightest profit.

If you still manage to come up a few bucks it will literally go crazy and not let you get a single win at all whatsoever.

It's like they got greedier and want to make more money or something but it's fucked.

Anyone relate?

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[Beparanf]

Even if you are saying the truth about BC.game. It’s very hard to prove that by using only the statistics of the result since coin flip is pure random games. I’m not a player of BC.game but this is same scenario with slot games with close source code. It’s very hard to prove if the game is rigged and the only thing we are relying is just the reputation of the casino.

Can you provide proof for the change of algo?

[astaroth81]

Even if you are saying the truth about BC.game. It’s very hard to prove that by using only the statistics of the result since coin flip is pure random games. I’m not a player of BC.game but this is same scenario with slot games with close source code. It’s very hard to prove if the game is rigged and the only thing we are relying is just the reputation of the casino.

Can you provide proof for the change of algo?

No I have yet to find the announcement BC supposedly made in April about the algo change for crash. All I can say is that I was making a decent profit on crash back at the start of April then in mid-late April I noticed something changed and the game was acting differently. The same now with coin flip. For a while I was actually in profit at this casino now I am deep in loss due to these changes.

Like you said, it's difficult to prove and they definitely know that and use it to their advantage. There's no way these games are truly random because RNG is not truly random since they are comouter generated there is a visible pattern always and after playing a game for some time and getting used to said pattern, for them to change the algorithm and change the pattern without telling people is such a dirty thing to do.

Many people agree with me too and are all upset.  The game was never a cake walk. It always presented a challenge but now it's just impossible and it sucks because in my mind it's programmed to think it will play like before so I kept trying like an idiot and kept losing and losing and now I've lost so damned much it's crazy.

I blame myself for that if course but these bastards need to tell people when they change a game like this it isn't right.

And it's obvious it's rigged when you play it. It will go on these streaks out of nowhere and only switch when you choose the other side. It happens way too much to be a coincidence.

Not only that, but it will allow you to get a high multiplier only when your bet is low enough so that it won't be profitable. Like I got 2000x with minimum bet. As soon I raised it it went back to the fucked shit and drained my bankroll.

Fucked up dirty tactics from someone I thought I could trust. 

[Beparanf]

Even if you are saying the truth about BC.game. It’s very hard to prove that by using only the statistics of the result since coin flip is pure random games. I’m not a player of BC.game but this is same scenario with slot games with close source code. It’s very hard to prove if the game is rigged and the only thing we are relying is just the reputation of the casino.

Can you provide proof for the change of algo?

Many people agree with me too and are all upset.  The game was never a cake walk. It always presented a challenge but now it's just impossible and it sucks because in my mind it's programmed to think it will play like before so I kept trying like an idiot and kept losing and losing and now I've lost so damned much it's crazy.

I blame myself for that if course but these bastards need to tell people when they change a game like this it isn't right.

Ofcourse many people will agree to you since many of them are those who lose in the casino which is very common since this game is pure random. BC.game has a solid reputation here so accusing them without a solid proof will just look like that you are just whining because you are already losing on the casino after your early winning.

If you really feel BC.game is not honest with their game. Just report them to the license provider so that they can check the probably fair system of the casino. BC.game will not allow anyone to look on it except to license provider. That’s your only way to prove that their games is rigged instead of creating scam accusation against them using your intuition as proof.

[Saint-loup]

Anyone who has played here for awhile and is familiar with coin flip would you say the game is playing differently now then how it was a week ago?

For me and others, it seems that they have stepped up the level of rigging to where it is actually changing the outcome of the game in real time.

I know ppl will claim "probably fair" but that's a load of bull just to make games seem fair to attract users. This game is literally doing the exact opposite of what I do. It's learning and predicting my moves and doing what I just did right after I did it.

It's messed up because for us not familiar with developing and all the complex technical stuff it's hard for us to even describe the situation.
[...]

Unfortunately the more you gamble the more you are likely to encounter a long losing streak one day, as you are likely to encounter a winning one. But because of the nature of the gambling games and their house edge, you are more likely to lose money than to earn some at the end. If you really think an AI or an algorithm is learning how you are playing why don't you just try to thwart it?

[hopenotlate]

-SNIP-
... "probably fair" ...
-SNIP-

The answer to your doubts is in the question  itself 

[CarnagexD]

Even if you are saying the truth about BC.game. It’s very hard to prove that by using only the statistics of the result since coin flip is pure random games. I’m not a player of BC.game but this is same scenario with slot games with close source code. It’s very hard to prove if the game is rigged and the only thing we are relying is just the reputation of the casino.

Can you provide proof for the change of algo?

Change of algo could be a change in the pattern in a way the game has been played before. Sometimes those games being rigged especially on online casinos come in many ways such as interrupting ads, glitching on screens, intentional lagging interface, and automatic reloading of the link. IN this way pattern changed in the game. Or it may feel like the game is forcing you to lose money and continuously go against your initial bet.

I think if you're playing a game that you believed is rigged, you won't enjoy it. So why bother playing it. The same remains with the other games that rely on the probability which remains uncertain on individual bets but only in a large sample size.

[Mahdirakib]

No I have yet to find the announcement BC supposedly made in April about the algo change for crash.

BC.game had changed the salted hash of some in-house games in the May month of this year. And they had made an announcement about it in the forum. In the announcement, the representative has mentioned that they are changing the salted hash to improve the 'provable fairness' of the games.

In our endeavor to constantly improve seed safety and provable fairness of our games, we will shortly be updating our crash,roulette,baccarat and keno with a new salted hash. The purpose of this post is for full transparency of this process.

Their representative had also made a post about it in their ANN thread. Perhaps, they haven't made any changes on the server to make the game rigged. I think you are just unhappy with your losing streak. Either change your betting strategy or play at a different casino.

[astaroth81]

Even if you are saying the truth about BC.game. It’s very hard to prove that by using only the statistics of the result since coin flip is pure random games. I’m not a player of BC.game but this is same scenario with slot games with close source code. It’s very hard to prove if the game is rigged and the only thing we are relying is just the reputation of the casino.

Can you provide proof for the change of algo?

Change of algo could be a change in the pattern in a way the game has been played before. Sometimes those games being rigged especially on online casinos come in many ways such as interrupting ads, glitching on screens, intentional lagging interface, and automatic reloading of the link. IN this way pattern changed in the game. Or it may feel like the game is forcing you to lose money and continuously go against your initial bet.

I think if you're playing a game that you believed is rigged, you won't enjoy it. So why bother playing it. The same remains with the other games that rely on the probability which remains uncertain on individual bets but only in a large sample size.

It had always been my top 3 favorite games that I can go to when I am down to help recover losses and now I don't even have that anymore so it's just ruined that whole casino completely and I'm very upset because I really liked BC and don't understand why they would do this especially at a time when the market was heading upwards and everyone has increased profits. Doesn't make any sense.

[goldkingcoiner]

Even if you are saying the truth about BC.game. It’s very hard to prove that by using only the statistics of the result since coin flip is pure random games. I’m not a player of BC.game but this is same scenario with slot games with close source code. It’s very hard to prove if the game is rigged and the only thing we are relying is just the reputation of the casino.

Can you provide proof for the change of algo?

I agree that it is very hard to prove that the casino is cheating its users but I do not think that you can push aside the proof of mathematical statistics like that. If anything, statistics, as long as you have very large sample sizes, would be a very good method to prove that the casino is indeed doing something unbecoming, like changing their algorithm in their own favor. But that sample size would have to be extremely large. So technically it would be possible, just extremely expensive to prove OP's theory. And since OP is going on a whim, based completely on his feeling that something is "off", I do not think its worthwhile to test his theory...

I sometimes get the feeling that I am being cheated, as well, when I am on a losing streak. But that is my own subjective view, based on my emotional state at the time.

[Fivestar4everMVP]

It's been a very long time, like about 5 to 6 months now since I last played on bc games, and I also do not have any plans of playing there anytime soon, but then, I understand that one thing that is constant is change..

They probably might have done some upgrades that for sure, casinos do that frequently mostly to make sure they keep their system and games running smoothly and safe from vulnerabilities, but the if like you(the op) claim that the game algo has been altered, there is no way for us to verify this claim either it be true of false, all I can say which I think is fair enough is that, if you are no longer comfortable playing on bc games, nothing stops you from try another casino rather than complaining.

[astaroth81]

It's been a very long time, like about 5 to 6 months now since I last played on bc games, and I also do not have any plans of playing there anytime soon, but then, I understand that one thing that is constant is change..

They probably might have done some upgrades that for sure, casinos do that frequently mostly to make sure they keep their system and games running smoothly and safe from vulnerabilities, but the if like you(the op) claim that the game algo has been altered, there is no way for us to verify this claim either it be true of false, all I can say which I think is fair enough is that, if you are no longer comfortable playing on bc games, nothing stops you from try another casino rather than complaining.

I have tried many other casinos and BC is the one I liked the best. It has the nicest, smoothest UI with decent bonuses etc. so it's a major bummer that they did this and I really just don't get it as long term I can't imagine it will be as profitable for them in the long term.

[Kakmakr]

The casinos does not change the algorithm of the games, they just increase or decrease the RTP (Return to Player) for the games. So if the split was 96% to the player and 4% to the house.... then they just change it to $93 to the player and 7% to the house.

It might also be that for 3rd party games, that they might alter the variance of the games, which is one of the other factors that are used to determine the outcome of the bets. (Slots)

The bets are still Provably Fair, because the Client Seed / Server Seed and RNG has not changed. 

[astaroth81]

The casinos does not change the algorithm of the games, they just increase or decrease the RTP (Return to Player) for the games. So if the split was 96% to the player and 4% to the house.... then they just change it to $93 to the player and 7% to the house.

It might also be that for 3rd party games, that they might alter the variance of the games, which is one of the other factors that are used to determine the outcome of the bets. (Slots)

The bets are still Provably Fair, because the Client Seed / Server Seed and RNG has not changed. 

Sometimes I feel like they have a switch that makes the games harder or easier.  I've noticed when BTC is in an uptrend, the games generally are easier and payout much more but when in downtrend it's the opposite. A

Also for crash, it's clear that they must have control maybe not over the exact outcome but in the range of where that number will land.  Crash can hit any multiplier from 1 to 40,000x (highest I've ever seen) and yet it mostly hits between 1-3x. If it was truly random I think it would hit a wider range of numbers and not be so limited to one area over the next.

Have you read about their degenpass? Supposedly their degenpass nft if held in a bc wallet will increase a players edge against the house to 98%. So that too is another clue that they definitely have a way of manipulating the RTP like you say. 

[QueenVera]

Even if you are saying the truth about BC.game. It’s very hard to prove that by using only the statistics of the result since coin flip is pure random games. I’m not a player of BC.game but this is same scenario with slot games with close source code. It’s very hard to prove if the game is rigged and the only thing we are relying is just the reputation of the casino.

Can you provide proof for the change of algo?

From what op said, I don't think there should be a form of prove except we try out the games ourselves, but op i hate it when people come out to speak ill of others businesses especially  in an open space like this which you know isn't right at all.
I haven't used BC games but I've known them on the forum to be cool  and I want to know if you ever tried contacting  them and I wouldn't have to blame them if there are cases that seem like this because I'm sure they know it will be a bad reputation  for them as a company  if players always complain of losses and if coin flip which is a random game has such issue, what they would simply  do is contact the game provider and that should do the trick.
But there is one thing I've also noticed in gambling,  when the losses are getting much, gamblers begin to feel cheated and I hope that's not the case with op.

[swogerino]

The casinos does not change the algorithm of the games, they just increase or decrease the RTP (Return to Player) for the games. So if the split was 96% to the player and 4% to the house.... then they just change it to $93 to the player and 7% to the house.

It might also be that for 3rd party games, that they might alter the variance of the games, which is one of the other factors that are used to determine the outcome of the bets. (Slots)

The bets are still Provably Fair, because the Client Seed / Server Seed and RNG has not changed. 

Sometimes I feel like they have a switch that makes the games harder or easier.  I've noticed when BTC is in an uptrend, the games generally are easier and payout much more but when in downtrend it's the opposite. A

Also for crash, it's clear that they must have control maybe not over the exact outcome but in the range of where that number will land.  Crash can hit any multiplier from 1 to 40,000x (highest I've ever seen) and yet it mostly hits between 1-3x. If it was truly random I think it would hit a wider range of numbers and not be so limited to one area over the next.

Have you read about their degenpass? Supposedly their degenpass nft if held in a bc wallet will increase a players edge against the house to 98%. So that too is another clue that they definitely have a way of manipulating the RTP like you say. 

Every casino can alter their RTP in different games,not all of them but most slot providers offers such an option to the casino,Play n Go being the most well known to offer different levels of RTP so the casino can choose what they see fit for their business.

You just have to trust the casino that the RTP displayed in the description of the game is real,you have absolutely no way of finding out if it is altered or not,in order to avoid such thing you can play sport bets,the casino cannot do anything there against you.

[piebeyb]

If you don't feel comfortable playing there because you think their system is unfair you can leave it because there are lots of casinos that might be fair to you out there, but I've played on this site everything looks normal the same as playing in other casinos BTW don't we all knowing that the bookie will always win, I really don't think how the casino will give out free money to you and other users.

When you gamble, that's where you will face risks in every game so don't think that bc.games is cheating or greedy, while they also make the casino to make money not to share money, you can gamble on sports betting which is much fairer than casinos because We know that every casino game isn't completely fair and I don't believe any system of odds is fair either. always remember that the house will always win. when you want to win stop when you win even though it's very difficult because of our greed.

[astaroth81]

Even if you are saying the truth about BC.game. It’s very hard to prove that by using only the statistics of the result since coin flip is pure random games. I’m not a player of BC.game but this is same scenario with slot games with close source code. It’s very hard to prove if the game is rigged and the only thing we are relying is just the reputation of the casino.

Can you provide proof for the change of algo?

From what op said, I don't think there should be a form of prove except we try out the games ourselves, but op i hate it when people come out to speak ill of others businesses especially  in an open space like this which you know isn't right at all.
I haven't used BC games but I've known them on the forum to be cool  and I want to know if you ever tried contacting  them and I wouldn't have to blame them if there are cases that seem like this because I'm sure they know it will be a bad reputation  for them as a company  if players always complain of losses and if coin flip which is a random game has such issue, what they would simply  do is contact the game provider and that should do the trick.
But there is one thing I've also noticed in gambling,  when the losses are getting much, gamblers begin to feel cheated and I hope that's not the case with op.

Of course I have I made several comments on the game itself where they allow reviews of the game to be posted and you know what? My comments were removed mostly one comment was kept but most were removed and I was disabled from commenting further after a mod replied to me and gave me the whole talk about gambling being risky etc when that was completely irrelevant to what I was saying. If they truly had nothing to hide then why remove my comments and other people's comments too who have pointed out that the game's game play has changed recently and it seems to be very rigged now??

Why would the mod reply to my comment then disable me from commenting so I can not reply back? That is some shady tactics. Yes I might have used bad language in some comments but not in all I just mainly tried to point out and explain how the coin seems to be manipulated somehow that is really it. Other comments were more vulgar I think saying "fuck bc" etc. but some others were also saying "this is rigged" and stuff.

I also have made comments about it in chat.


I contacted my VIP host who after I lost over 15K on this game due to this issue gave me a total of about $90 lossback.

I also messaged support many times trying to ask them if the algo was ever changed for this game or any other game and finally one did respond the other day and said no changed were ever made which isn't true because for crash the hash was changed in April.

[Crypt0Gore]

We've discussed something like this few times before, Op there is no way to detect if an online casino rigged its games, you could try but in the end it leads to a dead end, all we have to rely on is the reputation of the online casino itself, it's why I tell friends that loves gambling to avoid sticking with a gambling casino if all they keep getting is losses non-stop, feel free to move to other casino and try your luck, I can guarantee you that you will win more on one than the other and also if you plan to be a good gambler you need to always gamble responsibly, because losses will keep knocking on your door more than winning.

To lose money is normal in a gambler's life so it's better to be safe out there, play your games wisely and expect more losses than you will win, always gamble with money you can afford to lose, rigged casino or not, losing is inevitable.

[Fivestar4everMVP]

It's been a very long time, like about 5 to 6 months now since I last played on bc games, and I also do not have any plans of playing there anytime soon, but then, I understand that one thing that is constant is change..

They probably might have done some upgrades that for sure, casinos do that frequently mostly to make sure they keep their system and games running smoothly and safe from vulnerabilities, but the if like you(the op) claim that the game algo has been altered, there is no way for us to verify this claim either it be true of false, all I can say which I think is fair enough is that, if you are no longer comfortable playing on bc games, nothing stops you from try another casino rather than complaining.

I have tried many other casinos and BC is the one I liked the best. It has the nicest, smoothest UI with decent bonuses etc. so it's a major bummer that they did this and I really just don't get it as long term I can't imagine it will be as profitable for them in the long term.

Well, same reason I said what I said, "one thing that is constant is change" is a common saying which I believe you've heard or read countless times, and I also use that phrase quite frequently here..

I have been on the internet long enough to never feel disappointed anymore when a platform I've so gotten used to, turns around and make some major changes which greatly affects my experience with them, there is no system any where in the world that stays the same way it was built for so so long time, even a computer, motor car wears down as time pass, due to constant usage..

Since bc games have decided to make some changes which I believe you are not happy about, you have two choices, either to ignore and continue playing there, or move on to another casino.

[ethereumhunter]

Anything can happen in gambling. Maybe we used to be able to win easily at gambling but lately, we have lost more often than we have won. That's gambling. We cannot expect to win when we gamble because gambling is not a place to make money. If we lose, we might think that the casino changed its algo or something, causing us to lose. So I think losing or winning in gambling is normal. Today we won a lot. Tomorrow does not guarantee that we will win. It could be that we will lose a lot and the day after tomorrow, we can also lose a lot of money. So it is true that we always bet with money we can afford to lose so that we don't lose too much money.

[astaroth81]

I'm trying to learn more about the change they made regarding the salted hash. Is it true that because a client seed is not used for crash that the salt value which is controlled solely by the casino, can be adjusted by the casino to control the outcome of the game?

They could also use a biased RNG. Has the RNG they use ever been audited? Sorry I'm just thinking out loud.

Could this control of the salt value be how they are able to control the range of numbers selected to ensure that crash doesn't end up going to 10,000+ several times in a row and instead stays low between 1-3 generally?

[astaroth81]

"BC.game has not been publicly audited by an independent organization. However, the casino does have a provably fair algorithm, which means that the games are mathematically impossible to cheat. The casino also claims to have been audited by an internal auditor, but the results of this audit have not been made public."

[Stakefast]

The same casino script is being used on other webistes such as nanogames.

It once was available to buy, same as with the Stake/Primedice casino script.

I don't think they are able to change the outcome since you can verify each round for yourself and set your own custom seed.

[Fivestar4everMVP]

The same casino script is being used on other webistes such as nanogames.

It once was available to buy, same as with the Stake/Primedice casino script.

I don't think they are able to change the outcome since you can verify each round for yourself and set your own custom seed.

I don't think script is what op is talking about, op is talking about the algorithm of of a game namely, coin flip..  Except there be something I am not understanding clearly..

Game algo is not the same as the script the casino built on, and even at that I believe script can still be updated by any casino if they deem it fit, this could be to make the casino look a bit unique from other casinos using that same script..

Algo clearly differs, which is why we see different casinos offering or showing different RTP for the same game.

[dezoel]

Anything can happen in gambling. Maybe we used to be able to win easily at gambling but lately, we have lost more often than we have won. That's gambling. We cannot expect to win when we gamble because gambling is not a place to make money. If we lose, we might think that the casino changed its algo or something, causing us to lose. So I think losing or winning in gambling is normal. Today we won a lot. Tomorrow does not guarantee that we will win. It could be that we will lose a lot and the day after tomorrow, we can also lose a lot of money. So it is true that we always bet with money we can afford to lose so that we don't lose too much money.

I can experience to win most of the times when I'm new to the gambling site. I guess this is one of their tactics for their customers to keep on playing and once you spend more time or money on them, you will only feel one day that you are not lucky anymore as the day you started.

It leads me to have the same impression as the OP where I also ask others if the fairness of the games have changed lately but maybe it's only in my head. We will only look crazy to other players and they think we are just butthurt because we can't accept our losses. Sometimes we are forgetting the fact that casino is also a business and they want to earn a profit too.

[astaroth81]

The same casino script is being used on other webistes such as nanogames.

It once was available to buy, same as with the Stake/Primedice casino script.

I don't think they are able to change the outcome since you can verify each round for yourself and set your own custom seed.

I don't think script is what op is talking about, op is talking about the algorithm of of a game namely, coin flip..  Except there be something I am not understanding clearly..

Game algo is not the same as the script the casino built on, and even at that I believe script can still be updated by any casino if they deem it fit, this could be to make the casino look a bit unique from other casinos using that same script..

Algo clearly differs, which is why we see different casinos offering or showing different RTP for the same game.

It's interesting you bring that up. I've noticed BC has the same no limit slots as most others with the same RTP but the recent win leader board is different on each one than other casinos. It's kind of odd. Bitcasino, I would think is the largest most well known casino, has the same no limit slots as most other places I've checked (rollbit, metaspins, luckyblock) but BC has different ones. RTP is said to be the same though I just find it weird.

I'm still new to gambling and I'm trying to learn more about how casinos work and the inner mechanics of things. I just don't understand how I was able to make over 15K on coin flip in a few days and now I can't come up a single dollar on the same game using the same strategy etc. I've played thousands of rounds on the game and know it is definitely acting much differently than it was before.

There was a distinguishable pattern that was present and now it's completely gone. Not only that, I swear the game is somehow being manipulated because it will continue to land heads or tails consistently in a row until I choose the opposite side then it immediately switches to the other side and starts to do the same thing. Then when I bet on the other side it switches back. Hard to explain..

I've noticed that when BTC is is green and everything is going up the games tend to be a lot easier at that casino. Crash for example will go on great runs and hit high multis a lot more than usual. So there must be a way that they can at least increase the difficulty of the games.

They have a special NFT there at BC that you can win on their "lucky spins" (which they advertise that you can win up to 5 BTC on but no one ever does because its 100% rigged and based on wager) called mDegenPass NFT. You can wager the mDegenPass and accumulate 1000 of them then mint a DegenPass NFT. I was shown an article stating that holding one in your BC wallet will increase your edge against the house. So while everyone else is playing games that are 96% edge you will play at 98%. I can't find that article again, it was shown to me by support months ago. But that alone clearly shows that they can manipulate the edge and difficulty of the games and subsequently the outcome. 

Which I mean sounds reasonable. You have someone who won 15K on a game in a few days, you increase the difficulty of the game to prevent further losses. BTC is red the future of crypto uncertain, you increase the house edge so you can retain liquidity. I guess that's fair?

[ethereumhunter]

I can experience to win most of the times when I'm new to the gambling site. I guess this is one of their tactics for their customers to keep on playing and once you spend more time or money on them, you will only feel one day that you are not lucky anymore as the day you started.

It leads me to have the same impression as the OP where I also ask others if the fairness of the games have changed lately but maybe it's only in my head. We will only look crazy to other players and they think we are just butthurt because we can't accept our losses. Sometimes we are forgetting the fact that casino is also a business and they want to earn a profit too.

It could be a casino tactic or beginner's luck because I see some beginners can win the game and make money. But maybe all of this will not be repeated at another time because it seems that the beginner's luck will move to other gamblers so that new gamblers will start to be curious and try it all the time. And if the casino starts changing its logarithm, we won't know either because the casino won't tell its members about it. But we only know that when we lose, it means luck is not with us so we have to realize it and stop immediately before all our money runs out.